Emma Pengelly
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“This week, I will travel to France to pay my respects to all those who fought and the many who fell at the Battle of the Somme as we mark its 110th anniversary. <BR /> <BR />From across Northern Ireland, generations have served their country.”
“One of the men who fought was James Sandford, my great-grandfather. He fought, he survived, he went on to fight again, and he was seriously injured in another battle. I am deeply proud of him, and I am proud of all those who stepped forward with such honour in the face of the horror of that war.”
“When I stand there this week, looking at the gravestones of so many who made the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedom, I will also remember — we must always remember — the responsibility that we carry forward. Remembrance is not only about honouring the past; it is about shaping the future.”
“Last night, people in north Belfast witnessed horrific scenes that have absolutely sickened and appalled people across Northern Ireland. It was a shocking and barbaric act of violence that has left a victim fighting the consequences of a truly savage attack.”
“Every person has the right to walk their streets, live in their community and feel safe in their own neighbourhood. This type of brutality has no place in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />This morning, I spoke with the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have also been in contact with the Prime Minister, because the PSNI has confirmed that the 30-year-old male who has been arrested is believed to be of Somalian heritage.”
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“It is time for common sense and for the Equality Commission to give clear advice and to make sure that it is providing, in legal duties, a safe space and a fair platform for our young girls.”
“I thank the Member again for her supplementary question. This is a matter of common sense. Women need safe spaces, women deserve safe spaces, and many women are demanding safe spaces because that is what the law is there for and is designed to do. <BR /> <BR />The Equality Commission had an opportunity to clarify and to give that certainty. It has not done so, and we could end up being the only part of the United Kingdom without that clarity and certainty. It is making an argument about there being no diminution of rights, but what about the diminution of my rights as a woman and the rights of women across Northern Ireland? We did not consent to have those damaged, dismissed or demeaned in the way that they have been thus far.”
“I thank the Member for her important and very relevant question. At the heart of all this must be a fundamental principle, which is that there should be safe spaces for biological females. That was at the heart of the court case. The court ruled that gender is based on biological sex. I was very disappointed in the Equality Commission's advice, but, alas, I was not surprised. A huge overreach is represented in its opinion on a possible interpretation of article 2. The commission should have stepped forward and stood up for women and to protect safe spaces for women. I welcome the fact that the Minister of Education did that today. Other Departments must look at the matter and make sure that we are continuing to do everything that we can to protect those who may feel vulnerable in some spaces.”
“They are not easy issues to tackle, but, again, I reassure everybody by saying that they should always remember that a minority is involved that we need to take on but that the vast majority of bonfires are cultural celebrations and commemorations that are displayed appropriately.”
“It is important to point out that, across Northern Ireland every year, there are hundreds and hundreds of bonfires, the vast majority of which are displayed in an absolutely peaceful way as part of community celebration. Northern Ireland is not unique in that; the culture of bonfire building as a form of commemoration and celebration is common in many places outside Northern Ireland. However, there are a minority of cultural events and expressions not just with bonfires but across many types of occasions that cause offence, and those are key issues for us to tackle when moving forward with that review.”
“We have agreed to roll the flags, identity, culture and tradition (FICT) recommendations into that process as we move towards T:BUC 2, in order to take some of those challenges into account. It is important to say that there is absolutely no role for any paramilitary symbols, flags, activity, glorification or whatever it may be, and it is hugely hurtful to victims on all sides when those things are seen. In all our displays of cultural identity, we should be respectful. That does not always happen, and we have seen the worst of that from a minority at times this summer.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Sadly, throughout the year, we have seen demonstrations that have aspects that are hateful, unkind, unpalatable and entirely unacceptable. That happens throughout Northern Ireland in many different areas. First of all, we should recognise that it involves a minority of people. When we look at what happened over this summer and last summer, we see that a minority of people carry out those attacks. I believe that the vast majority of people are opposed to hatred and to any threat of violence or intimidation. <BR /> <BR />The Member will be aware of the fact that we are looking at a review of Together: Building a United Community (T:BUC), which is our good relations strategy.”
“While I may not be optimistic, I am hopeful that a reshuffle is an opportunity for them to do so. The UK Government need to get a grip, be that on legacy or many other issues. They need to get a grip on our economy, on immigration and on tackling the internal barriers to the UK internal market, and they need to get a grip on legacy and start talking to the people who are most impacted on by it.”
“Absolutely, the Member is correct. The approach to legacy must always have justice at its heart. Of course, the process has, at best, been opaque. The Secretary of State will deign to tell us what he has decided to do after his extensive consultations with the Irish Government. That is an appalling way to approach the issue. Victims should have been at the heart of the redesign of the process, and I do not get any sense that that has happened. The Secretary of State has asked for views and taken them in, and we are to wait to see what he will say in his judgements. <BR /> <BR />I notice that there has been a significant reshuffle of the UK Government. Frankly, the Labour Government have, thus far, been shambolic. It is time for them to get their act together.”
“<BR /> <BR />At the heart of everything that we do, we should always remember the victims, who are still mourning, no matter what side of the community they come from. Their loss is acute, and we must do more to talk about and treat these issues in a sensitive way and, of course, step up, listen and deliver for the victims and survivors of the Troubles.”
“I thank the Member for her important question. It is worth reiterating, time and time again, that terrorism was always wrong, that violence was always wrong, that there was never any justification for it and that there was always an alternative. I sit down and talk to victims' families, many of whom are still grieving and feeling the loss. They see the loss of their loved ones being mocked and laughed about and those who carried out those attacks being glorified. That is wrong. I disagree with the glorification of terrorism, should that be about the IRA, IRA prisoners, the UVF or the UDA. There is no space for that, it needs to go away and it is absolutely wrong. The police need to take a robust line on tackling the glorification of terrorism.”
“<BR /> <BR />This is an Executive that, across all parties, will be pushing as hard as possible to deliver for the people of Northern Ireland against our Programme for Government priorities.”
“<BR /> <BR />That has included actions such as getting real money into parents' pockets from the childcare subsidy, creating those 3,000-plus additional SEN places, and ensuring that the ending violence against women and girls strategy has been published and that there is funding out on the ground. Many things are happening that are improving people's lives. That includes the big issues, such as tackling health waiting lists. <BR /> <BR />The Member constantly goes back to the issue of Casement Park, while dismissing and demeaning everybody else for the particular issues that they question, but the reality is that, on health, education and trying to grow the economy and champion Northern Ireland, it is the DUP Ministers who have stepped up to do that time and time again.”
“The Member has spoken a number of times on a number of issues already today, from the Windsor framework right through to the important issue about safe spaces for biological females. It is important not to dismiss those issues and to say that they are nonsense. That is absolutely wrong. If this place is going to work, you need to recognise that, while it may not be an important issue to you, it is an important issue to many other people. <BR /> <BR />I have outlined that, across a wide range of issues, the Executive are delivering not just the Programme for Government but a transformation board and transformation projects, looking at those budgets and looking into a three-year Budget coming down the line. We will do whatever we can to maximise the impact of what is a limited financial situation.”
“The system needs to be improved, and I know that the Education Minister is up for that challenge.”
“So, there has been delivery. Perhaps we need to communicate it in a stronger way to make sure that people are aware of what has been delivered. <BR /> <BR />I am pleased that the Education Minister has published the SEN plan. There are over 3,000 additional SEN places, and I am pleased that, finally, today, no child is without a place. However, the key focus must move on to ensuring that those places are suitable and that parents can get confirmation of those places at an earlier stage. That has taken a huge amount of work because of the number of additional places that are required, but it is a demonstration of the Executive in action. It was a big challenge. It was tackled, and those places were created. It was not easy to do, and more needs to be done.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The Executive are focused on delivery regardless of the challenges. There are challenges around the funding that is available and challenges in our system to make sure that it can deliver for people and that it is fit for purpose. <BR /> <BR />We have delivered, not least in getting the Programme for Government out and around £80 million of funding out through an early learning and childcare subsidy package and a £25 million package for early learning and childcare. We have published the framework to end violence against women and girls, including the delivery plan, and there is money on the ground for people. As mentioned, just this week, we had the release of some 50,000 additional inpatient, outpatient and diagnostic appointments to tackle the priority of the health waiting lists.”
“I thank the Member for her question. As indicated, that engagement was very much about communicating with groups but also with individuals and others outside those groups who are known to us, along with extensive engagement with the commissioner and officials who were working to develop that. <BR /> <BR />I am optimistic that the wording of that will reflect consensus across victims and survivors. Our aim was to try to get resolution to what has been an outstanding commitment to victims and survivors for too long. We are all on the same page with really wanting it to be resolved as soon as possible to make sure that victims and survivors can see what was promised to them reflected in this place but also so that we can then move on to look at the other outstanding commitments from that overall inquiry.”
“The Member will be aware that the final draft is under consideration at the moment. Officials have undertaken quite a significant task to make sure that there is maximum buy-in and that views have been taken on the specific wording. Although the wording will not reflect exactly what everybody wants, because that is simply not possible, we have followed that process in order to try to get maximum possible buy-in. Hopefully, we will be moving on that very shortly. <BR /> <BR />I take the opportunity to thank you, Mr Speaker, for your help and support. I know that you have been personally involved in working with many of the victims and survivors over a long period. Thank you for your cooperation with the Department and with us to try to get the issue resolved.”
“We know how important the memorial plaque is, which is why officials have engaged extensively with victims and survivors in recent months to ensure that they heard a wide range of opinions on the wording. <BR /> <BR />Draft options were shared with representative groups and individuals not affiliated with any group, as well as with the Commissioner for Survivors of Institutional Childhood Abuse (COSICA) and the Victims and Survivors Service (VSS). A final draft has now been developed, reflecting the views shared during that engagement, and is now under consideration. We remain committed to progressing that important inquiry recommendation and are keen to move forward as quickly as possible.”
“He therefore missed the window, and those tractors were stuck in Scotland for four to six weeks, despite their being paid for in full and the fact that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. That is not acceptable, and it is one of many different examples of, quite frankly, as I describe it, "the blob gone crazy". It is bureaucracy for bureaucracy's sake. We need to tackle that. The biggest frustration that the people have about Governments — whether here, across the United Kingdom or across the globe — is the fact that it is so difficult to get things sorted because of the unnecessary, disproportionate and non-risk-based nonsense that people are putting in place. They need to get rid of the bureaucracy. It does not serve any purpose. Get it sorted.”
“The Member is absolutely right. Some companies do not supply Northern Ireland because they do not understand the system. Some companies try to ask for various company numbers or are looking for processes that are not needed. I get it all the time from people who contact me. It takes a bit of time, but they can navigate the system and get the situation resolved. There are still requirements, however. Certificates are required by certain people. I was contacted by Roy from mid-Ulster. He was trying to bring tractors into Northern Ireland. He required four certificates, and he could not give the haulage company a specific date on which he would get them.”
“If, indeed, the UK-EU deal comes through, and there are, for example, sanitary and phytosanitary (SPS) agreements that remove any so-called advantages of dual market access, that would, in a practical way, smooth things further. It would not, however, remove the challenges that remain with customs paperwork or other processes that we were promised would be got rid of but have not been and are still in existence. The Government need to remove them now. They serve no purpose and are completely unnecessary. Get rid of them.”
“As indicated, there will be a range of views on the issue, but I appeal to people to look at the facts, to listen to companies, to listen to what people are facing and to look at what the UK Government promised and at what promises they are not fulfilling. There are real challenges for businesses. It is correct to say at this stage that there is very little regulatory divergence, but we are still unnecessarily checking things at the behest of the Windsor framework, despite the promises that there was to be unfettered internal UK trade. Doing that is not proportionate. It is not based on risk, is completely unnecessary and is pushing the cost on to businesses.”
“At this stage, there is no evidence of any benefit from dual market access, and we continue to tackle the huge bureaucracy that it has brought to internal UK trade. There are, of course, different views on the issue in the Executive Office. I have asked for evidence of any benefit of dual market access: I have received no evidence that there has been any benefit whatever. Instead, we have got bureaucracy, paperwork and process, all of which is completely unnecessary. The UK Government need to step up, address that and start to work for business not just on this issue but for the UK economy as a whole.”
“The UK Government need to start taking it seriously. It is a huge cost to business, which is drowning in the paperwork. The UK Government promised the people of Northern Ireland unfettered UK trade: they must deliver.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary question. It was absolutely a missed opportunity, which was deeply disappointing but, alas, perhaps not surprising. Our businesses face huge issues. I caught the end of the previous debate as I came into the Chamber for Question Time, and I was dismayed to hear those issues dismissed in such terms once again. In the final line spoken before I stood up, the leader of the Opposition, I believe, described it as a "nonsense" debate. It is an incredibly important debate. The people who decry so-called Trump tariffs and barriers to trade seem absolutely happy to accept all of the unnecessary bureaucracy, paperwork and process that amounts to non-tariff barriers not just between the UK and the EU but within the UK internal market. It is an absolute disgrace, and it needs to be addressed.”
“We will continue to participate proactively in all forums and to advocate for Northern Ireland's interests at every opportunity.”
“As part of our ongoing commitment to ensuring that our circumstances are understood and appropriately reflected in policy and strategic decision-making within the UK internal market, we continue to engage with the UK Government across a range of forums. Those representations have been made at meetings of the Prime Minister and heads of devolved Governments, the Interministerial Standing Committee and the East-West Council, at which members of Intertrade UK were also present, and in many other engagements. Representations have also been made in the context of discussions on the Windsor framework and the UK-EU strategic partnership in the Interministerial Group on UK-EU Relations. Those engagements reflect our continued commitment to collaborative working with the UK Government but also to raising those important issues.”
“Mr Speaker, with your permission, junior Minister Cameron will answer the question.”
“Yes, of course, we have challenges, and, as we commence the new term, we must drive forward on delivery, but we have lots of good news to tell, and we ought to do that and champion that at every opportunity.”
“The Member will know from her role in the Committee that international engagement policy is a non-devolved area, but there is much that we can do, and we do it across a number of areas, particularly through soft diplomacy, which is about reaching out through our offices in Brussels and in DC. Of course, those offices go well beyond those physical locations, as the Member will be well aware, but it is also particularly about working with Invest NI and Tourism NI to make sure that those two elements are fully integrated into the key messages. <BR /> <BR />I encourage Ministers to go out and tell our story. We must champion Northern Ireland at every turn because, if we are not doing that, who will? We are in our roles to be champions for Northern Ireland. We have a strong story to tell.”
“It was also really positive to see how many of the restaurants and local shops were full. <BR /> <BR />We learned from the previous time, when there was some feedback that the conditions for people who were attending the Open did not facilitate the same benefit to the local economy. That was addressed and addressed very successfully this time. It was a hugely successful Open, and it would be great to have the British Open back in Northern Ireland.”
“Absolutely. What an incredible success. The only thing that did not go to plan was that there was not a Rory win. We had a Rory McIlroy win just this weekend, however, and I extend my sincere congratulations to him for that. It did not come through for the Open, but we have a win now. <BR /> <BR />The Open was a huge success. It showcased our beautiful north coast. When I was speaking to people from all over the globe at the Open, they told me that they were blown away by how beautiful the scenery is and how fantastically organised the tournament was. Two hundred and eighty thousand spectators attended, with an estimated £213 million of benefit going to Northern Ireland. Anybody who tried to book a hotel anywhere up near that area for that week will know about that huge benefit.”
“US investment in Northern Ireland has been £1·5 billion over the past decade; 32,000 employees in Northern Ireland are employed by US companies; 28% of all Northern Ireland employment by international companies is by US companies; there are over 50 Northern Ireland companies in the US; and the US is Northern Ireland's second-largest single export market. As I said, I will step up and speak up for Northern Ireland while others shy away from doing so, because, regardless of people's personal views or feelings, it is important to Northern Ireland and the UK, and I will be there to speak up for Northern Ireland and for Northern Ireland businesses.”
“I will engage with the president of the United States because of the role that he holds, which is president of the United States. The US is incredibly important to Northern Ireland. I could outline many issues on which I disagreed fundamentally with previous presidents whom I have had the privilege of meeting, not least President Biden, but I went on and did what I did because of and for the people of Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I will outline very quickly for the Member some of the key reasons why US investment is important.”
“Many people will come to the UK as part of the delegation, and they are covering everything from trade to social links and departmental matters, which are things that go right through the Administration. There is a good opportunity to talk to a number of key people at such events, so I am looking forward to it. I will always stand up and speak up for Northern Ireland.”
“I believe that that is what leadership is all about, and I certainly will not be found wanting when it comes to stepping forward, should that be to represent Northern Ireland at the D-Day commemorations, to talk to Prime Ministers, to go to London to lobby for what is best for this place and raise our issues at every opportunity or, yes, to go to DC to talk to President Trump and to attend those events. <BR /> <BR />When we met His Majesty The King, he was very clear about the fact that he wants the devolved regions and nations to participate in the likes of state banquets. That had not happened before during such state visits. They are unique and fantastic opportunities to engage with not just the president but the entire team that he brings with him.”
“I thank the Member for his question. At this stage, the First Minister will not attend the state banquet with President Trump. <BR /> <BR />I engage with people, politicians and leaders from all the different shades of political opinion. As far as I am concerned, it is not about what I feel about them or even about my view of their political opinion but about my being in this role and stepping up, showing leadership and engaging with people where there is particular interest and importance for Northern Ireland.”
“Through the Northern Ireland Bureau, we are developing those relationships with key stakeholders, many of whom are new in DC. It is not just about Northern Ireland benefiting from US investment but about how our companies can invest in and benefit the US as well.”
“As with all engagements, I will use the event to promote Northern Ireland as a great place to visit and in which to live, work and invest, and to remind the president about our unique connection to the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. As always, I will use the opportunity to showcase the fantastic place that I am proud to call home. When I met the president in Washington in March, we spoke about golf and, of course, about Northern Ireland, and I will be keen to highlight how successful this year's 153rd Open has been. <BR /> <BR />It is vital to many businesses and communities across Northern Ireland that we not only reaffirm our unique position with respect to the president but cultivate a constructive relationship with the Administration that supports our exporters as well as encouraging investment.”
“I thank the Member for his question. President Trump's unprecedented second state visit to the UK is an opportunity to showcase Northern Ireland's strengths, build relationships with the president and his team and boost trade and investment. Using the visit to build personal ties is particularly important given the UK-US economic prosperity deal and ongoing uncertainty on tariffs. <BR /> <BR />I will have the opportunity to participate in the state banquet at Windsor Castle on Wednesday 17 September, which is being hosted by His Majesty The King in honour of the president of the United States of America and the First Lady.”
“I believe that we are the slowest across these isles. That is not acceptable. It is not acceptable for victims or their families, and we need to get on and tackle the issue and produce swift justice now.”
“I thank the Member for her important question. She is absolutely right: justice in Northern Ireland is much too slow. It really affects people, not just those who are waiting to appear before the courts but the victims' families, who have to suffer for many months if not years while they wait for their cases to come up in court. That is an unbearable anxiety for those families. Families need to see justice being done and they need to see it being done much more swiftly. I had the opportunity to return to the Bar a number of years ago, and I was genuinely shocked by the length of time that criminal cases were taking. I was involved in a number of cases, none of which got to trial over the couple of years that I was at the Bar. It is an urgent issue, and we need to tackle it. Justice must be swifter.”
“The event also demonstrated that it is not just about working across government and with local government but about working with young people and all parts of our society at the earliest possible opportunity to tackle misogynistic attitudes and the issues that, in turn, give rise to violence against women and girls.”
“I thank the Member for her question. It is one of the six key outcomes: working better together. That means all parts of our system working together to try to tackle it. <BR /> <BR />Just last week, we had the privilege and honour of attending an ending violence against women and girls conference at Craigavon Integrated College. There, we joined over 100 pupils from a number of schools and, in particular, the McNally family, who have done such incredibly brave work in the area. It must be so hard for them to talk about Natalie, describe who she was and step up time and time again, but they do that because they genuinely do not want the violence that happened to their Natalie to happen to another woman. I pay tribute to them. It was an absolute honour to be at that event with them.”
“It is absolutely appalling, and it demonstrates that abuse targets not just women and girls — the focus of this particular piece of work — but, very often, those in public life across all political parties. <BR /> <BR />Of course, in this work, it is critical that we genuinely get the right actions to tackle that, should it be towards those in public life, women and girls — no matter where they are — or, in particular, children.”
“I thank the Member for her question. It is incredibly important that all the actions arising from that are fit for purpose. I have said to the House previously that I have had somebody charged and convicted under the online safety legislation. He pleaded guilty and is currently in custody. That is a demonstration, unfortunately, not only of the Act in action but of the need for the Act. I would like to get into a position where we do not need to use that piece of legislation, and that applies right throughout. <BR /> <BR />I take the opportunity to extend support to Simon Harris, who has been subjected to a number of threats over the summer, including another one in the past number of days.”
“Our officials are members of the online safety strategy cross-departmental implementation group and work closely with colleagues to ensure that we use every opportunity to protect women and girls and to ensure their safety. The UK Online Safety Act is also an important tool in combating online abuse and harms, and we remain committed to engaging with Ofcom on its implementation.”
“That is why the strategic framework to end violence against women and girls addresses the whole range of gender-based violence, abuse and harm, including online. The framework is intended not to displace existing policy remits but to strengthen and coordinate the Executive response to challenging violence against women and girls. <BR /> <BR />The ending violence against women and girls change fund is a fundamental part of delivering the strategic framework, and it focuses on prevention. There are many excellent projects, including in our constituency of Lagan Valley, which work with expert organisations and the PSNI to educate on safety in online spaces. The Department of Health has sponsorship of the Executive's online safety strategy and accompanying three-year action plan, which was published in February 2021.”