Robbie Butler
Lagan Valley · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Officials highlighted that alignment was provided through existing EU-derived arrangements and that coherence with existing regulatory frameworks was identified as a main consideration.”
“I note that the Member for Strangford agrees: she understands the value of our fisheries in those areas. There are other complexities. The Isle of Man Government have now done a bit of a circle around that island, which makes it difficult for our fishers from Portavogie, Kilkeel and Portaferry to craft and graft a living from some of the…”
“The Committee took the opportunity to question officials on several issues and highlight matters warranting scrutiny at Committee Stage but was not limited to those areas.”
“As the Minister said, they have possibly been viewed as competing demands, but they are not competing demands, because clean water is part of sustainable food production.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am glad to see language in the Bill on the sustainability of the aquaculture sector, and I want to lean in a bit on that. Aquaculture pastimes have, perhaps, been underutilised, whether they relate to the angling fraternity or other river and water users.”
“Today, I want to talk about a very talented young girl from Lisburn called Freya Terris. Freya, who is 17 years old, attends Friends' School and studies the piano under former Lisburn resident Rory Dowse. Freya is an incredibly accomplished young pianist and has performed in the Ulster Hall.”
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“To do so would invite only further legal challenge and more years of delay. That is what it would consign it to. <BR /> <BR />We are demanding clarity from the Minister for Infrastructure on how the A5 project will stay within those limits; not as a box-ticking exercise but as a demonstration that the Government are capable of delivering complex projects in line with overlapping statutory obligations. That leadership has been lacking. That must change if the A5 is to proceed without further obstruction. <BR /> <BR />The families who have lost loved ones do not want to hear excuses. The farmers and landowners who see their fields and livelihoods directly impacted on do not want to be kept in the dark. The communities of the north-west do not want another round of promises without delivery. They want action, honesty and leadership.”
“Temporary improvements, enforcement and better public transport options for the north-west must be advanced in parallel. We cannot allow the tragic roll call of lives lost on the A5 to continue simply because the legal process takes time. Leadership means acting on every available front to save lives, not standing idly by until the ribbon is cut. <BR /> <BR />Here is where my party's amendment actually distinguishes itself. It grapples with the reality of carbon budgets. Colleagues, it was the Assembly that passed legally binding climate commitments. I accept that people come at that from different directions. However, whether one agrees or disagrees with their pace or ambition, those commitments are the law of the land. Major infrastructure cannot simply be waved through without regard to that framework.”
“Too many of them feel as though they have been left in the dark and treated as an inconvenience rather than as citizens whose lives and livelihoods have been directly impacted on. The UUP amendment puts it plainly: people must be treated "fairly and respectfully". That means having timely communication, honest promises and adequate compensation where there is loss. We cannot, on one hand, call for progress and, on the other, ignore those whose property is directly tied up in that progress. Trust must be rebuilt with landowners because, without it, the legitimacy of the project is undermined from the ground up. <BR /> <BR />The DUP amendment also acknowledges a further truth. If further delays occur, road safety measures cannot wait.”
“Executive parties and Ministers need to be very aware of that, and we need to see more cross-departmental working. <BR /> <BR />The Assembly writes the laws of Northern Ireland and Departments are bound to apply them. It is therefore simply indefensible when Departments cannot evidence compliance with our own legislation. When they cannot demonstrate that due process has been followed, or when they treat legal obligations as an afterthought rather than as a foundation stone, that is not merely a technical failing: it is a failure of leadership and responsibility. It is precisely that gap that has brought us the repeated delays and the frustration of communities that have been promised so much for so long. <BR /> <BR />We can also not overlook the experience of landowners.”
“That means, yes, building the road but doing so in such a way that withstands scrutiny, respects those who are affected and aligns with the legislative framework that the Assembly put in law. We must be clear: the A5 will be built. It is a matter of seeing not just whether it will be built but how we will do so. In answering the "How?", it is impossible to ignore the repeated failures of multiple Departments to work together effectively, which speaks to Mr Martin's points. Long before the recent judicial intervention, it was evident that siloed thinking, poor communications and elective collective leadership were undermining delivery. Too often, Departments acted as though their obligations were in conflict with each other's rather than being capable of being reconciled through cooperation and planning. That is simply not good enough.”
“Too many families have been left shattered by preventable tragedies. Every one of us in the Chamber knows and has heard the calls from the A5 Enough is Enough campaigners and the grieving families who simply want a safer future for others. Saving lives must be the first and "absolute priority", and it is from that perspective that the Ulster Unionist Party tabled amendment No 3. It is the most balanced amendment. I ask the Opposition to reconsider whether they will support it. <BR /> <BR />The UUP amendment is grounded not in political one-upmanship or the temptation to point fingers, as is so often the case in the Chamber, but in the clear-eyed recognition of the fact that the Minister has a duty to deliver the project lawfully, competently and urgently.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. When the motion came out and the amendments went in, I thought that seeing three amendments that are mutually exclusive should send some message of comfort to the families in that area who have been bereaved. The fact that 50 people have lost their life on that stretch of road since 2007 is quite horrific, and it means something to us all. If nothing else comes out of the Chamber today, let us hope that there is a message of solidarity with the families and of how everybody, regardless of the arguments made, wants to see delivery. <BR /> <BR />Few debates in the Chamber at the moment command the same urgency and carry such moral weight as this one because of those deaths and their impact on families. The facts are stark and unarguable. Too many lives have been lost on that stretch of road.”
“We can be humorous about this, but Trevor hit the nail on the head: do we want the next cohort of MLAs who come back in two years' time to be repeating the lines that we are trotting out tonight and that have been trotted out by Members before us? The time for delay has long passed. Minister, if we are to compete, we should complete, and if we are truly going to level up our transport system, we must deliver the Knockmore line, because it is the track that leads directly to the circle line, to prosperity and to Northern Ireland's rightful place on the global tourism map.”
“He is giving your Jim a run for his money.”
“I thank Robin Swann MP, who attends Westminster religiously. He is probably one of the most attentive MPs. He is passionate about this and speaks on this —.”
“<BR /> <BR />Since becoming an MLA in 2016, I have repeatedly highlighted the Knockmore line's potential to unlock growth right across Northern Ireland, but, as Trevor pointed out, it was going on for maybe 10 years before I was here, when John was a mere boy and a councillor, which is some time ago.”
“Tourists arriving from the United States or Canada would be able to step off a plane and get straight on to a train to Lisburn, Belfast, Londonderry, Antrim, Ballymartin or beyond. That is the seamless connectivity that international travellers expect in 2025. The Knockmore line is the first step in delivering the wider circle line, which is a project that would maximise value by linking our towns, capital and airports in one coherent transport network. <BR /> <BR />I had the pleasure of living within about 500 yards of the track that is the Knockmore line, and the Member for Lagan Valley will agree that it is a beautiful line for the people who would commute on it from South Antrim into Lagan Valley. They could see our three- and four-storey buildings. They are skyscrapers, Trevor. It really is a nice journey. It would be very good.”
“When you look at the links through to the City Airport, you will see that the opportunities there are probably better than anywhere else in the world, which I will get to in a second. <BR /> <BR />This is not just about convenience; it is about competitiveness. By attracting and embedding new transatlantic routes from Belfast International Airport, we have the opportunity to rival Dublin Airport in attracting long-haul visitors and global investment. Nobody in the Chamber will need to be reminded that, when we came back in 2022, one of the UK Government commitments was to look at pre-clearance for US flights. It is not for the Minister to look at that, but the Executive Office could revisit that, because it is really important to shine the light on the ambition that we have for Northern Ireland and put it truly on the map.”
“That is a significant disadvantage for business and for tourism. The Knockmore line gives us a ready-made solution by reinstating the line through the Lagan valley corridor, with the potential for increased pick-ups at Knockmore — we know that there is work ongoing with regard to that wider Knockmore piece — and Ballinderry, and then better linking the jewel in the crown, which is Lisburn, by the way. We can transform connectivity for local communities while creating the crucial spine that links our International Airport directly with the rest of Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />As has already been pointed out, probably much better by other Members here, particularly the Member for South Antrim John Blair — I thank you, John, for bringing the debate tonight — is that circle line ambition.”
“As has already been pointed out, we genuinely could meet our climate credentials because it is a win-win. It would fulfil the active travel ambition, but there would be tangible benefits from it. I am sure that, 162 years ago, they were not quantifying all that into what they delivered. The longest line on that is 46 miles. Can you imagine if we had an underground tube from Belfast International Airport? <BR /> <BR />We are looking to put trains on a track that already exists. I know that it is not just as simple as that, but, in 2025, we have people — not necessarily in this Building — who complicate it, and maybe we could deliver it a lot more easily than we think. <BR /> <BR />Right now, Belfast International Airport is one of the only international airports in Europe that does not have a rail link.”
“In reality, everybody here tonight has made the case for the delivery of the Knockmore line to include Belfast International Airport. It is simply unquestionable. If we are serious about growing our economy, which is why we are here, boosting tourism, which is why we are here, and putting Northern Ireland on the international stage, the case has well and truly been made, and we must finally connect our main airport to our rail network. <BR /> <BR />I was doing a bit of research today, because I was in London last week, and I wondered when the London underground was built. It was built 162 years ago, and you think about that and how they did that, how they afforded it and who did it, yet we are looking at a rail link that actually exists. We have the line, we are not commissioning land, and we are not vesting land.”
“That is what this is about. Let us be absolutely clear. I nearly fell out with my party colleague over it. Lagan Valley is the premier. It is the big brother.”
“I want the Minister to be aware of the skulduggery that is happening in the Chamber tonight. This is not about tourism nor connectivity; this is about the people from South Antrim wanting to get into Lagan Valley.”
“<BR /> <BR />Unless people are serious about having a conversation about how we cherish that part of our culture and save it, rather than, as some Members have said, and, disappointingly, I heard this from someone whom I respect daily, eradicate it in totality, we cannot be part of that conversation.”
“The motion talks about personal safety, but, unfortunately, there are things in the FICT report about memorials to terrorists that apply to me, given what happened to 32 members of the prison workforce. I would like to see that recommendation in the FICT report brought forward and implemented. Perhaps a motion will be tabled about that at some stage. <BR /> <BR />What we have learnt today from some of the commentary is that we lose sight of all the good that has been done. There is still more to do. I am not speaking as its Chair, but I chair the Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee. Part of the Committee's role is to look after the environment. Through what we are doing, I would like to see young people educated on how we can repair the environment.”
“Thank you for the intervention. I have no issue if a bonfire is too close to a building. I say that I have no issue: what I mean is that they should be in places where they are at a distance. I did my fire safety engineering exams, and I understand that they should be in places where they are not too close to properties and where nobody is in danger. I would like to see a series of bonfires on the Eleventh night to which tourists can come and at which we can tell our story in a respectful manner. Unfortunately, the motion does not address that, and it also leaves out very important parts of the FICT report that matter to me, as a former prison officer.”
“The Member said that this was about opening up a dialogue, but it is not, because the motion says that it is about implementing part of the FICT report. There was no collective agreement around FICT at the end, because some of those matters proved too difficult for some of the parties. <BR /> <BR />I want to go back to one of the bonfires that was mentioned.”
“I agree with everything that the Member has said. <BR /> <BR />There are around 300 bonfires across Northern Ireland in and around 11 July. Today, while there has not been specific, detailed mention of bonfires, I did a rough count of about four examples — I will say that they were bad examples. I hate to see it, but I have been at bonfires where I have asked and persuaded and stayed for hours to see posters and flags taken off bonfires, because they do not reflect what I believe to be a cherished part of my tradition. That is something that we should all be involved in and not shy away from. <BR /> <BR />I agree with those who have said that, in order to see real success, this has to be bottom-up and not top-down. Why is that? It is because the delivery of the motion by the Sinn Féin Member did not reflect the words in the motion.”
“Whilst perhaps they are more important to that community, they tell a part of our collective story, like it or lump it. That is our background here, guys: we have to share our history. <BR /> <BR />I also wear the hat of having served for 16 years in the Fire and Rescue Service, and I love to hear it being talked about in here. I attended bonfire sites on many nights, whether that was for an inspection or for a response.”
“Like Mr Clarke, I had not intended to speak in the debate, although I am passionate about bonfires. I am possibly one of the most experienced people in the room to talk about them because, as a young person, I built bonfires. That is part of my backstory, my heritage and my culture, and it was something that I thoroughly enjoyed. There was a little bit of debate between Stewart Dickson and Trevor Clarke about young people. I was one of those young people who enjoyed the whole bonfire experience. <BR /> <BR />There are things in the motion that I can agree with. Like Mr Brett, I want to see good bonfires as something that can be celebrated as part of our wider culture. I would go as far as to say that they do not just belong to the Protestant, unionist and loyalist (PUL) community.”
“I will just point out that we cannot fail to deal with it now, as we have an ageing population, and, with that, we have people with managed conditions. Therefore, the reality is that we are likely to have more people at home in wheelchairs and on rollators, and, therefore, the need will be even greater and will increase.”
“Businesses, sadly, can sometimes be impacted by how people choose to travel. <BR /> <BR />I am rapidly running out of time, but I have more questions for you here, Minister. I will wrap this up, if that is all right. Lagan Valley residents and residents across Northern Ireland are tired of excuses, swerving round potholes, waiting for months for repairs and seeing their rates and taxes disappear into the compensation piece. That is key to this. I support the motion wholeheartedly. I urge the Minister to take it seriously, and I think that she will. Let us see a strategy brought forward that matches the scale of the challenge.”
“That needs to be spoken on. <BR /> <BR />Maybe the Minister can clarify this. I have down here in my research that around £25 million was paid out in compensation to drivers of cars that had been damaged by the failing road network. I hope that we can get some clarity on that. Another thing that I would like to get clarity on is that, often, when we report a pothole we are told that it has been referred to another utility provider. Sometimes that is a bit of a hump in the road — pardon the pun — to getting a quick remedy. Some of the other utility providers for the fixes maybe respond more quickly when DFI gets onto their back. However, whether you are driving to work, cycling to school or simply walking to the shops, we are agreed that you are entitled to a safe journey.”
“<BR /> <BR />I do not sit on the Infrastructure Committee, and I am blindsided by some of the detail that might have been discussed. However, why would we not have an agency in the Department that is ready to respond and go out and fill the blinking holes in, instead of assessing and measuring them and wasting councillors' and MLAs' time? Some 107,000 potholes were recorded in 2004, and Councillor Martin, in Lisburn, is probably responsible for recording a lot of them. <BR /> <BR />I want to make a point as chair of the all-party group on disability. We know that this affects drivers, motorcyclists, cyclists and pedestrians, but one of the groups most impacted is those with disabilities: those who use wheelchairs or the elderly who are on rollators. For them, these hazards and uneven surfaces pose even greater trip hazards to navigate.”
“<BR /> <BR />Earlier, I wanted to ask the Member a question because it was alluded to that technology might be a way of dealing with the problem; it has also been alluded to that we could travel differently, but we do not always have to go forward. Sometimes, we can look back to find a fix. I remember, in the days of the Department of the Environment, there were teams that could respond and fill the potholes. We did not need engineers to go out and mark the holes and go out the following month and the month after that to see whether the hole was getting bigger. We had people with buckets of tar who could go out and fill the potholes. I am not sure if that is a solution, but sometimes we do not need to look forward to improve the situation. Sometimes, we can and should look back and assess whether it was a better idea.”
“The roads, both rural and urban, that were once fit for purpose are now riddled with potholes, uneven surfaces and crumbling verges. When I am out, residents stop me — as they stop many MLAs when they are out shopping — to talk about those issues and point them out, and, often, to ask you to go and look at the state of a road that they have to deal with. <BR /> <BR />I pay tribute to the Department for Infrastructure staff who are on the ground. I find the Lisburn office very responsive, and it has an ambition to see improvements made. There is no problem communicating with those people, but they would do better with more resources. We have to be clear that it is not the workforce who are failing us; it is the systemic underinvestment that has left us unable to keep up with the demand.”
“I support the motion and thank the Member for bringing it to the House. I begin by recognising the absolute frustration that people across Northern Ireland feel about the shocking decline in the state of our roads and pavements. Every Member so far, including the Member from the Minister's party, has outlined that we spend a lot of time, on behalf of constituents across the country, responding to queries about pavements and paths that need resurfacing or the potholes. I pay tribute to a councillor from my party, Alan Martin, who seems to spend most of his time cutting grass for DFI or pointing out potholes to the Lisburn division of DFI Roads. We all work collectively and collegially to improve the state of our paths and roads. <BR /> <BR />In my constituency of Lagan Valley, the situation is, frankly, a disgrace.”
“This is really a good moment, because we are not tearing strips off each other today. As long as the DUP keeps its posters out of Lagan Valley, we will be all right. Let us stop talking about betrayal. Let us stop talking Northern Ireland down. Plenty has been said in the debate with which we can agree. I believe, for instance, that Mr Honeyford genuinely has at heart —.”
“To do otherwise, however, would be to follow blindly the faithful implementation route and tighten the knot that already strangles Northern Ireland's place in the United Kingdom. <BR /> <BR />This is not about rhetoric. I was a Remainer. I voted to remain and would do so again. Mr Gaston was right, and I agreed with him up to a point. He said that Mr Allister was absolutely right, but Mr Allister was absolutely wrong on Brexit. It was the Ulster Unionist Party that warned of what would happen and recognised that, because we have a border here, things would be difficult and Northern Ireland would be treated differently. Mr Allister did not have that foresight at the time. The TUV needs to take an equal burden of the fallout from the protocol rather than just blaming the DUP. <BR /> <BR />Unionists are facing in one direction, however.”
“We have an opportunity, however. We can sit idly by and watch divergence happen and make things more difficult for businesses, or we can do something that has already been done in Wales, where the opportunity was recognised, given the ongoing conversation between the EU and London, to stop works on Welsh border control posts until such time as it makes sense to continue. That is why our amendment calls for action now. The Government must and can invoke article 16 and pause further implementation of the deal until after the UK-EU reset negotiations in 2027. Herein, however, lies the good news for people who seek to apply the protocol and the Windsor framework rigorously: article 16 is a full and equal part of the text of the Windsor framework. It could be rigorously applied, and then, potentially, everybody would be happy.”
“Worse still, major regulatory changes on food and on plant and animal health that we have recently heard being heralded in the reset deal will probably not come to fruition until the end of 2027 or perhaps into 2028.”
“There does not seem to be the same challenge to that, yet we are talking about trade and people going about their ordinary, everyday business. <BR /> <BR />Our amendment recognises the practical costs that burden businesses in Northern Ireland. This is not just the fault of Brussels but of our own Government in Westminster who add red tape, costs and delay.”
“It shines a light not only on the failures of the framework but on the failures of the so-called safeguards: the Stormont brake, the consent mechanism, the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee and the UK Government's supposed role as guarantor of the Union. Those were dressed up as protections, yet every one of them has failed to prevent divergence within our internal market. They are, at best, paper shields. <BR /> <BR />Although I chair the AERA Committee, I am not speaking as the Chairperson. What I see, however, on a regular basis, is that we are dealing with greater areas of divergence. We see tractors, trailers and lorries sitting in ports in Scotland, which cannot come across because of paperwork and inefficiencies, but I tell you what: we can see drugs coming up through the Republic with no borders or difficulties.”
“I will name-drop two of the businesses that he talked about, because they are two fantastic businesses in Lisburn: Leckey and PRM Group. If you were to look at their books, you would see that, year-on-year, before Brexit happened, their profits went up. Do you know why? It is because they are darn well-run businesses with a vision. Yes, Brexit happened, but they took it in their stride because they had good business acumen. It was not Brexit or the Windsor framework that made them good: it was the sound management and leadership in those companies. They would have succeeded anyway. <BR /> <BR />The motion calls for the outright end of the framework. I share the deep frustration that drives it, but our amendment takes a more forensic approach.”
“That is a debate for another day. <BR /> <BR />The Windsor framework was heralded by some as a solution, but, really, it was a deal that sold the people of Northern Ireland the false promise of delivering on the promises that were made by Brexit. In reality, what it did was entrench the Irish Sea border, which tethers us to rules that we do not write. <BR /> <BR />The Member for Lagan Valley was right to point out some trade figures. There are some winners; there have been some losers. In Lagan Valley, there is a manufacturing company that uses steel that is tied to an EU tariff, which makes them uncompetitive with GB production to produce something that goes to the Republic of Ireland, and they are now out of that equation. That is the reality.”
“— and on the posters in Lagan Valley, if a few more had made that mistake and voted for me, I might have been in Westminster, but anyway —.”
“Mr Speaker, it is not the first time that people have made that mistake. Mr Buckley is about 20 years younger than I am, but I will take the compliment”
“Will the Minister commit to looking at the specific issues of the Bill, including the articles that give rise to divergence? I know that it is not within your remit to make changes, but, in the ongoing negotiations between the UK Government, through DEFRA, and the EU, those would be improvements and an upgrade. The LCM in its totality would be a better fit for Northern Ireland.”
“It is entirely reasonable to believe that a new loophole that allows import via the Republic of Ireland could be exploited by the same smugglers who traffic animals to the south-east of England, in what would be a wholly feasible and ridiculously lawful route for them. It might be seen as squeezing a balloon at one point to constrict it, only to see it pop out at another point. What steps will the Minister take to further tighten the gaps and divergence that will exist as a result of that? <BR /> <BR />With those points on the record, we will support the LCM.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is, however, deeply regrettable that other significant provisions in the Bill, such as the ability to prohibit the import of animals under six months old, cannot apply to Northern Ireland due to the constraints of the Windsor framework and our continued alignment with the EU pets regulation. That creates a glaring distinction — perhaps a two-tier system — whereby protections that are available elsewhere in the UK are denied here. We must also recognise — I believe that the Minister did so in some way — that smugglers of puppies or other animals are notoriously without morals or conscience.”
“The Ulster Unionist Party has consistently championed stronger protections for animals, as reflected in our manifesto commitments to crack down on puppy smuggling in particular; end cruel practices such as ear cropping; and support enforcement agencies with the tools and resources that they need. We encourage Members to support the Minister in that aspect. We therefore support the Bill's intent, particularly that to prohibit the import of mutilated animals, and recognise the importance of the LCM as a means to close current loopholes in law.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee felt overall that it could not take a definitive position on the legislative consent memorandum, as it had not had sufficient time to scrutinise it and some of the issues that Committee members, Dogs Trust and SOLACE had raised. The Committee has reported on the scrutiny that it was able to do within the tight time frame and now leaves it to the House to determine whether the LCM is to be agreed. <BR /> <BR />I will add some remarks as the Ulster Unionist spokesperson on agriculture, environment and rural affairs. I welcome the opportunity to speak on the LCM on behalf of my party.”
“SOLACE also welcomed the Bill but raised a concern about the additional enforcement responsibilities, including having adequate resources to support that work. <BR /> <BR />Regarding the aspects of the PMB that cannot be included in the LCM, the Committee requests that the Minister seek to cover Northern Ireland in that regard as soon as is practicable. I again highlight the very tight timeline for the Committee's scrutiny of the legislative consent memorandum. The Committee, however, welcomed the apology from DAERA about the timescales and looks forward to earlier engagement on any future LCMs.”
“We highlighted a potential scenario to officials that, if smugglers wanted to continue that practice, they could do so using the loophole to move animals legitimately from France to the Republic of Ireland and then, following a change of ownership, on to Northern Ireland. Officials agreed to follow up on that concern. <BR /> <BR />On 26 June, the Committee considered responses from Dogs Trust and SOLACE. Dogs Trust welcomed the PMB and the LCM and sought to address concerns about puppy smuggling that had persisted following changes to the pet travel scheme in 2012. Dogs Trust expressed concern, however, that, without routine checks between Great Britain and Northern Ireland on the non-commercial movement of animals and on cross-border activity, opportunities for detection and enforcement may be limited.”
“Officials stated that puppy smuggling, as experienced in Northern Ireland, would not be solved by applying those clauses anyway, as they deal with scenarios that are specific to the south-east of England and issues encountered at the Channel ports. <BR /> <BR />Officials advised that the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) believed that sentencing in the Welfare of Animals Act 2011 is robust but that engagement with the PPS and the Department of Justice is ongoing. <BR /> <BR />Officials outlined for us the typical trafficking scenario seen in Northern Ireland: indigenous illegal breeders moving vanloads of animals through Larne and Belfast to the bigger, more lucrative market in GB, as well as animals coming from the Republic of Ireland into Northern Ireland.”