Robbie Butler
Lagan Valley · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Officials highlighted that alignment was provided through existing EU-derived arrangements and that coherence with existing regulatory frameworks was identified as a main consideration.”
“I note that the Member for Strangford agrees: she understands the value of our fisheries in those areas. There are other complexities. The Isle of Man Government have now done a bit of a circle around that island, which makes it difficult for our fishers from Portavogie, Kilkeel and Portaferry to craft and graft a living from some of the…”
“The Committee took the opportunity to question officials on several issues and highlight matters warranting scrutiny at Committee Stage but was not limited to those areas.”
“As the Minister said, they have possibly been viewed as competing demands, but they are not competing demands, because clean water is part of sustainable food production.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am glad to see language in the Bill on the sustainability of the aquaculture sector, and I want to lean in a bit on that. Aquaculture pastimes have, perhaps, been underutilised, whether they relate to the angling fraternity or other river and water users.”
“Today, I want to talk about a very talented young girl from Lisburn called Freya Terris. Freya, who is 17 years old, attends Friends' School and studies the piano under former Lisburn resident Rory Dowse. Freya is an incredibly accomplished young pianist and has performed in the Ulster Hall.”
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“I associate myself with the Health Committee Chairperson's comments about the threats that have been made against our Minister of Health. The COVID pandemic has thrown up many anomalies in society and, sadly, one of those has been those who seek to diminish the people who are carrying the burden on their shoulders and trying to lead us through this life-threatening pandemic. What has happened is absolutely disgusting, whether it is online or in person, and people need to desist from what they are doing. In effect, not only are they causing hassle and stress for the Minister of Health and his family but they are endangering other people's lives with the nonsense that they are peddling. <BR /> <BR />I thank Mr McNulty for his comments about his Uncle Padraig.”
“<BR /> <BR />I would like people to remember that we are moving towards Christmas, and a lot of people are already under pressure fiscally. This is the worst message that we could send out on this side of December.”
“There is great difficulty for people in verifying their identity online even to make a universal credit claim. In some ways, the system still affects those who, maybe, cannot avail themselves of the online access system or cannot access it due to disability. Very often, there is a cohort of people who, perhaps, cannot work in that section, and the system stills kicks against them. It is not deliberate, but it is not the way it should be. The vast majority of universal credit is administered online, and many people in Northern Ireland do indeed need to use the online service. <BR /> <BR />The sanctions of universal credit are becoming so much stricter and progressively punitive as time goes on. People have come into my constituency office who, through an oversight on their part, did not tick the right box, and had their claim suspended.”
“Advanced payment is an option, but, unfortunately, I do not think that people are clear that that function is there. A lot of people do not know that until they contact us or the advice sector. That could be communicated a lot better. <BR /> <BR />Universal credit is punitive for those who are self-employed. It often assumes earnings that have not been realised. Universal credit was designed to be a benefit that encourages and incentivises people to work. I listened to the Secretary of State talk about that today, and I think that such people are sometimes totally detached from reality. The system assumes that self-employed people achieve a base level of earnings, and that means that, even if you earn next to nothing in a lean week or month, universal credit will still penalise you as if you were earning your average wage.”
“I have even had experience of people having to wait between 10 and 12 weeks. In that intervening period, people accrue debt and maybe borrow money from other people and other sources, and that is a toxic position for people who do not have a lot of money. Some cannot even recover from that position. Once you apply for universal credit, all other legacy benefits stop, so, until universal credit kicks in, some people get absolutely nothing. As I said, that puts many people further into debt. <BR /> <BR />Universal credit is paid in arrears, as if it were a job. Other benefits were paid up front. Again, that forces people into accruing debt. If your income diminishes, you sometimes have to wait for a full payment window to pass before universal credit picks that up.”
“The individual components can amount to less than you could get under the previous system and are affected by the benefit cap. For most families, universal credit will not give any additional amount for children past the second child. I was thinking about that and what they have done in other parts of the world in trying to affect the social population, but I could not find the words to use. It is perhaps like social engineering, or it could be seen as such. I am not sure that it was meant in that fashion, but, for some people in that part of the fiscal environment and the fiscal community, that will possibly determine whether they have another child, and that is not a good place to be. <BR /> <BR />When we look at applications for universal credit, we see that many people have to wait up to six weeks to get their first payment.”
“<BR /> <BR />The reality is that universal credit has proven to be an unworkable benefit in its current form, and, in many cases, it is worse than the legacy benefits that it was created to replace. Universal credit was first developed in 2013 and was rolled out in Northern Ireland in 2017, and it is regrettable and lamentable that the benefit retains many of the unworkable problems that have existed since its launch. <BR /> <BR />I want to unpick a few of the problems that, I am sure, just about every Member in the Assembly has come across in their constituency offices. Many families get less on universal credit than they did on the legacy benefits. Universal credit is a means-tested benefit, and it absorbs six previous legacy benefits.”
“I thank the Member opposite and his party for tabling the motion, which we will support. <BR /> <BR />Today's motion focuses very much on the removal of the £20 uplift for universal credit and the impact that it will have on the poorest in our society, and I will cover some of that towards the end of my speech. While that is absolutely true, I do not believe that talking about that in isolation is useful; we need to talk about universal credit and the difficulties that it has brought in more general terms. The removal of the £20 uplift magnifies the underlying issues for some of the poorest in our society, and that is from a position that, for many people, was not good to start with.”
“I thank the Minister for coming to update us and the Chair of the Education Committee for tabling the question for urgent oral answer. Minister, given the impact of COVID and what we have learned from it so far, do you have a reserve list in case some of the panel are not able to contribute at some time? What are the contingency plans, if COVID impacts the ability of the panel to meet and get through the project?”
“The Member raises a really good point. It goes back to an offering that I made to the Committee to consider. If the Committee is minded to accept the first iteration, which "liberalises", as the Member put it, Sunday opening hours, I have said that the code and regulations need to be in place before that is enacted to ensure that the people who will use those premises are protected as well as they can be.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I thank him for sharing his personal story; it adds real value to the purpose of the legislation. He raised an important point about the levy, and he is now talking about the online industry. When you look at the revenue that is taken by any gambling company, you see that the turf accountants and betting shops here at least employ people. The online companies employ a decreasing number of people, so their profits are exponentially bigger. Does the Member agree that it is important that, in the second iteration of the legislation, the levy for online companies is reflective of the profits that they make vis-à-vis the jobs and social capital that are not created?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Like many Members, she has rightly testified that Northern Ireland has higher rates of gambling than anywhere on this island or across the UK. There is a focus on the intervention piece, which is really needed. Does the Member agree that we also need to get upstream of the issue with young people in our schools, perhaps through the education sector, to ensure that we address it ahead of time and prevent as many people as possible from falling into the dangers of gambling addiction?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. He has given us tangible figures, which are of a reduction from £400 million to £300 million. Will he expand on that a bit so that we can understand the gap?”
“Games encourage children to spend more money to buy more randomised prizes in the hope of getting a large end-game return. It is easy to see the links between gambling and gaming. The same techniques used by gambling companies are now found in children's gaming. That should alarm us. It may seem subtle, but it is a clear introduction to gambling and something that should be regulated to ensure online safety. <BR /> <BR />We will support the Bill progressing from Second Stage. We look forward to the Committee's scrutiny and the amendments that will come forward.”
“People chase their losses — I said that — and they can do that at any time, day or night. There is absolutely no escape for those who are addicted, and it is clear that people need to be given the tools to escape and to walk away from online harms. <BR /> <BR />Online gambling does not just take place with the big bookmakers. Significant online harm is aimed at children and young people, too. Children are encouraged to pay money and take risks in computer games, as many games employ what is termed "loot boxes", which are virtual treasure chests that contain undisclosed items that can be used in games. Those might be ways of customising characters or weapons. Loot boxes are random, and you could get a significant character or boost in a game or what amounts to nothing.”
“It is essential that we follow the regulation in the rest of the UK and properly regulate online gambling to protect those people and that we do that as soon as possible. <BR /> <BR />Online gambling is now a substantial part of the gambling market. Approximately 40% of gambling in the UK market is conducted online. In that sense, the bookies never close, and problem gamblers can never escape their addiction. With 15% saying that they bet while they are working, online gambling has become much more destructive than high street betting. I understand some of the constrictions that the Minister is under and how we have got to the Bill, and, to be fair, at least we have something for the terra firma betting shops and so on. However, it is maybe regrettable that the online part did not come as part of the Bill or, indeed, first.”
“The industry needs to be set the highest standards to follow. However, it is concerning that the code of practice before us is not enforceable and has no meaningful sanctions for those who breach it. A code of practice without meaningful sanctions when it is breached is worthless in combating the harms related to gambling. That omission should be looked at during Committee Stage. <BR /> <BR />Finally, I want to address some issues with online gambling. It is disappointing that the Bill does not tackle that key area. I am sure that most Members will have been contacted by someone, perhaps a constituent or someone from elsewhere in the country, or will know someone who has fallen foul of the enticements, flashy advertisements or the promise of getting rich quick and then the addictive behaviour that can quickly follow.”
“Of course, that is not the entirety of the gambling profits in the UK; it is just those that were reported. It is estimated that gambling costs about £1 billion in the UK each year. It is easy to see why a gambling levy is required to redress the balance, and I know that it has been addressed in some way. That levy needs to be mandatory and to be significant in terms of what the gambling industry is required to pay. Moreover and crucially, money for research and education — as I outlined, we need to get upstream with our problems — and treatment for gambling-related harms is needed more urgently in Northern Ireland than anywhere else in the UK or, indeed, these islands because of the high levels of gambling-related harm here. <BR /> <BR />Clause 15 deals with the code of practice, which is welcome.”
“That seems to create a layer of risk and serves no benefit that I can see. I raise that point because there has been a rise, particularly during the COVID pandemic, in unauthorised and unregulated bingo-style events across Northern Ireland, with instances of children under the age of 16 being given access to bingo cards with cash prizes. It seems that such a relaxation, without a robust code of practice and independent regulator or, indeed, a gambling commissioner, may increase the risk of gambling-related problems and habits among young people across our communities. <BR /> <BR />Clause 14 deals with the statutory levy. If we are to help problem gamblers, we need the resources to be in place, and that will require a huge investment. In 2019, the top five bookmakers in the UK posted profits of almost £15 billion.”
“It is time for comprehensive regulation that allows for age verification, self-exclusion and the banning of the use of credit cards, and we should mandate the use of algorithms to ensure that problematic patterns of play are picked up and acted upon. Many of those regulatory practices are already in place in the rest of the UK but, sadly, not here. Problem gamblers here need the same protections as those that are available in Great Britain, and it is time for the Minister to act. <BR /> <BR />Clause 10 is about qualifications by age, residence or corporate status. I would like the Minister to clarify the purpose of what, in my eyes, amounts to deregulation in clauses 10(4) and 10(5). That is the removal of the need for a body corporate in Northern Ireland to be registered under the Companies Act 2006.”
“For me, one of the disappointing parts of the Bill is that I would like to see a much more preventative approach. Whilst we need to have that intervention strategy and help for people who have an addiction, we are learning that addictive behaviour can become imprinted on young people at a very early age, and I would have liked to see something in there about education and prevention. <BR /> <BR />We need to go much further. I have already mentioned fixed-odds betting terminals, which are regulated across the rest of the UK. They are limited to a £2 bet. That regulation is voluntary in Northern Ireland. Many of the large companies comply with the voluntary code. In fact, many of our gaming establishments already do. However, not every fixed-odds betting terminal is limited to £2, and that cannot be allowed to continue.”
“Perhaps the Committee could look at how these clauses could be amended to take account of the fact that regulations and protections need to be in place before the shops can be opened on Sundays. It would be like a negative resolution, if you like, but that might have some value. <BR /> <BR />Clause 7 is about gaming machines. The regulation of gaming machines for under-18s in clause 7 is to be welcomed, and a new offence prohibiting the enticement of young people to gaming machines will protect young people from the dangers of gaming, which is a gateway to problem gambling. It is obvious that the earlier a person starts gambling, the more likely it is that they will become addicted. Preventing children and young people from developing a habit that could lead to problem gambling is, obviously, to be welcomed.”
“Clauses 2 and 6, as has been said, refer to Sunday opening. It is disappointing that, rather than regulate the industry, the Bill will give problem gamblers even more time to spend in betting shops and bingo halls. I take the point from the Member across the Chamber that, with the explosion of online gambling, that problem is already there, and I suppose that, in some ways, it levels the playing field. My point is not necessarily about opening on Sundays or having any real problem with that. My issue is that we should not open them up without making sure that the protections are in place for gamblers, if we do indeed open up premises on those days.”
“Problem gamblers are 15 times more likely to attempt suicide than anyone else in the population, and they are four times more likely to attempt suicide than any other people who have an addiction. We already know that we have a problem with poor mental health in Northern Ireland and very high rates of suicide and suicidal ideation, and that is why, when we get the facts about where these problems lie, that gives us the impetus to do something about it. We can no longer choose to ignore what is in front of us. Action is needed now, and if we wait until the next mandate to bring in regulation, it could be another three years before gamblers here are given the same statutory protections that people in the rest of the UK benefit from. People are in the grips of problems now, and we need to act today. <BR /> <BR />I will turn to the Bill.”
“We know that, during COVID, there has been micro-targeting of prevalent gamblers, and, very often, the high profits come from those prevalent gamblers. It is getting out of control. <BR /> <BR />At that point, many people will see no way out. They keep gambling and trying to recoup their losses, as they just chase after the money that has slipped through their fingers. Often, the despair is suffered alone, as many problem gamblers keep their addiction a secret, and it is only uncovered when that person has no way out. <BR /> <BR />As I said, that impacts on people's mental well-being, not just the person with the addiction but, in fact, those around them. People caught in problem gambling are more likely to be depressed, feel anxiety and be stressed and, unfortunately, are more likely to have suicidal thoughts.”
“In Northern Ireland, we allow credit cards to be used for gambling, and these can quickly be maxed out. That really is a problem. People get into this type of problem, and the APG heard from witness testimonies that they can steal from loved ones. They can beg, borrow and steal and often find themselves unable to repay their debt. Relationships then become incredibly strained and can often break down. <BR /> <BR />Even children at home can go without when parents or carers use money that was for things like food, clothing and heating. With the nature of their addiction, they fire the money into a machine — we have heard a lot about fixed-odds betting terminals — or go the bookie's shop or, unfortunately, go online.”
“Gambling here, as was said but is worth saying again, is four and a half times worse than in England, three times worse than in Scotland and the Republic of Ireland, and twice as bad as Wales. That is why we need something quite radical because the risk here has been measured to be infinitely worse. <BR /> <BR />Many people hide their gambling, and, by the time it is uncovered, they find themselves in deep debt, and financial problems can escalate quickly. Oisín McConville, who has shared openly many times, has talked candidly about the impact on his family and himself, and the lengths that people will go to to hide that addiction. <BR /> <BR />In the internet age, the betting shop is always on offer. People can chase their losses 24 hours a day, seven days a week. As problem gamblers try to recoup what they have lost, bills go unpaid.”
“The group has met religiously for about a year and a half. Philip McGuigan is the deputy chair. The meetings have been well attended, so there is an absolute appetite in the House across all parties to ensure that any legislation protects those at most risk. <BR /> <BR />We have heard some testimony. Mr McNulty spoke about GAA player Oisín McConville, who has shared not only with the APG but on a mental health podcast. The correlation between gambling-related harm and poor mental health is inextricable, as is the case with most addictions. <BR /> <BR />Some Members said that Northern Ireland has the highest incidence of problem gambling in the UK and, indeed, on this island.”
“Like the Member across the Chamber, the Ulster Unionist Party will vote in favour of moving the Bill through Second Stage. In doing so, we will encourage the Committee to apply a huge amount of scrutiny. The Chair mentioned that, given the volume of legislation that the Committee is sitting under, good legislation is essential, and it will not be rushed through. <BR /> <BR />There is a lot to draw from. We are talking about only the broad principles today, but, encapsulated within that, we need to ensure that we give voice to those who suffer most from the ill effects of gambling. I do not think that too many prohibitionists will be speaking today with regard to gambling. <BR /> <BR />Mr Speaker, to declare an interest, I am chair of the all-party group (APG) on reducing harm related to gambling.”
“We were pretty collegiate in the Chamber with regard to that. We visited Middletown a number of years ago, and the former Minister of Education has put the case well that when something is birthed, it can change, it can be agile and it can be better, and we need to be mindful of that. The Bill, which is at Second Stage, gives us a really good blueprint to do something that will make a difference to the lives of those people who need our support. We will support the Bill.”
“We will be putting them front and centre of our discussions and will be creating, hopefully through cross-departmental working, opportunities for them to genuinely live their best life. <BR /> <BR />I am looking forward to the Bill going through Committee. The Chair of the Education Committee made a good point, saying that we can make amendments to the Bill, not to take away from it but to add to it and perhaps champion, in the Department for Communities or wherever it may be, the need to make sure that our priority is the quarter of the service users who may need that additionality. That would be a useful addition to this, and we need to be proactive about it. <BR /> <BR />I will close on this point. I do not want to get too far into the debate on education and teacher training.”
“The other thing is the life opportunities and the pressures, whether educational or in the workplace, on people who have a diagnosis of autism. It is good to see that that has been recognised in the Bill and can be built upon. Proposed new subsection (4A) tilts us towards that cross-departmental working. This is a cradle-to-grave approach. We should not just be looking at this in the context of the education piece at the start, albeit the start is probably the most important piece, and support needs to be there for the young people, their family and those around them. The systems need to be there for those people, whether in our schools, further education or higher education colleges for transitions into work, and we need to ensure that we have created the greatest scope of opportunity for those people. We will be giving them hope, too.”
“I thank Pam, the members of the APG, the secretariat, the National Autistic Society and those who have contributed to the Bill getting this far. <BR /> <BR />I also want to thank the Minister. I do not say this because he is a Minister from my party; I will thank whoever deserves credit. In the midst of a COVID pandemic, and in the midst of other priorities like mental health and so on, the Minister has seen this as a priority and has, in this mandate, already started the ball rolling, and I know that he will be behind creating good legislation here. I thank him for that. <BR /> <BR />I was going to say that one thing had not been covered, but Justin, to be fair to him, covered it. We have talked about the prevalence.”
“Behind the scenes, we have support from the secretariat, Autism NI in particular and the National Autistic Society. Without their advocacy, this would not be possible. They speak on behalf of many parents and young people. <BR /> <BR />The APG held evidence sessions, which were priceless, and the information really came home during those sessions. We have heard lots of statistics on prevalence and so on today, but those things are kind of cold, because, unless you have had that personal experience, you are talking about a number. When we had those evidence sessions, we talked to carers, parents and people who have autism and heard about the real-life experiences and challenges. That is probably what gave us and Pam the energy to put the Bill together.”
“As a legislature, we need to embrace what is in front of us today. I must go on record to thank Pam, the chair of the APG. That APG was one of the first ones that I signed up to in 2016. We have all aged a little bit since 2016, particularly me. I had brown hair back then; it is silver at the sides now. A few others in here may have changed a little bit since then, too. The deputy chair, Cathal, to be fair, has been robust. The APG has been collegiate the whole time. I am not being rude, but I cannot mention all the members, because it has been a well-supported APG. This Bill has been a while in the making, and it is great to be here today. It is really good to be in the Chamber when, across the House, we are hearing very similar remarks. We are finding broad support for what is in front of us today.”
“I am thinking of an initiative that was started recently in Portadown by Hanover FC, which runs a very similar sporting outlet for children who have autism and other challenging issues. Ballymacash Rangers in Lisburn has also run events like that.”
“My remarks will be brief. It is a privilege to follow Mr McNulty, whose words were excellent. He gave us really good examples of real-life impacts and of some of the good stuff that goes on. It is always a wonder how he is able to get in GAA sports as the fix-all. However, Justin is absolutely right that other outlets, parents and organisers of sports already lead the way in some of the things that can be done to support those with autism: children, young people and even adults.”
“I thank the Minister for the work that she has put in so far. Given the emerging news about the energy crisis and the fact that the British Government may or may not act on the wishes of devolved Ministers, what actions will you, as our Communities Minister, put in place to ensure that people who are caught in that trap do not suffer?”
“I will not say too much more, but I would like to pick up on something that the Chair of the Health Committee said. He mentioned that there is a fear that these institutions will fall. I do not want to dwell too much on it, but there is also the point that the institutions were on their knees for three years. I say this to the two parties: let us learn from the mistakes of our past. We have been through enough in Northern Ireland. Let us move on into the realms of what we can do together. No party will be found more willing than the Ulster Unionist Party to increase dialogue and ensure that we do our best to give the people of Northern Ireland the best life chances that we can.”
“If we can give people hope, it will increase not only their days but the quality of their life to know that there are people out there who absolutely care about them and about their chances.”
“<BR /> <BR />Another thing that is sometimes missed is that one donor can help more than one person. I will not get into the technicalities of it, but one donor can help many people. Think about the natural evolution of that: not only will the family of the person who will benefit feel good but, often, the family of the person who is deceased can benefit, even in the midst of the absolute grief of having lost their loved one, from knowing that part of their loved one is helping someone else to live a fulfilling and successful life. <BR /> <BR />For me, and others here may agree, it is about the hope that it offers, because, when you are on a list, there is no guarantee, even if we change the Bill, that the moment will happen.”
“His infectious personality masks the danger that that young boy is in. He is an absolutely beautiful young boy. He is a credit to his parents, and anybody who has met him will verify that. The social media platform that his mum and dad run is fabulous. You will see that he has met just about everybody across Northern Ireland. He has met people from all backgrounds. He has met loyalists, unionists, nationalists, republicans and people who do not designate as any of those. He met the First Minister, and I think that he was going to have a boxing match with him. Can you imagine how long that list is? Dáithí went right to the top of it to land one on the First Minister. I give credit to his family for the effort that they have put in over the years.”
“Even the thought of knowing that you are offering the potential to help others should fill everybody with a sense of joy. Secondly, sadly, in many ways, there will always be those in need, whether that is through a diagnosed medical condition or through a moment of trauma in someone's life. There will always be people who need an organ, and they will be looking for a suitable donor. Sadly, those lists are growing. <BR /> <BR />As I said, people are waiting. Members have spoken about young Dáithí from west Belfast, and it would be remiss of me not to talk about him. I had the absolute pleasure of meeting him when Deirdre Hargey was the mayor in Belfast City Council. She had a reception for him just before Christmas; I think that it was on 27 November. I was able to hold him in my arms, which was great, as COVID was not a thing.”
“I thank Jo-Anne. I am sure that she is listening. <BR /> <BR />This is only the Second Stage of the Bill, and, obviously, the consultation will come through, and we look forward to getting the detail of that, but I hope that anybody in the Chamber who still needs to be convinced will not need convincing by the end of the journey of the Bill and that it will receive unanimous support through its stages. For anybody who has any doubts as to why we need the legislation, I will list a couple of reasons. First, for any of us to remain in and to offer that option of the donation of organs, the opportunity to help others in life is the most important thing that any of us can do in any walk of life, whether that is whilst we are alive or at the point when we leave this place.”
“It is a real pleasure to speak, even briefly, on the Bill. Alan will speak shortly, but, as I am the first Ulster Unionist to speak, I will say that we support the Bill. <BR /> <BR />When I first became an MLA in 2016, I was allocated a role on the Health Committee. I was not the Health spokesperson; I was deputy to Jo-Anne Dobson. I was given the portfolio of mental health, which has been excellent. I worked side by side with Jo-Anne Dobson at that time. That was hot on the heels of the failure to get the Bill through the first time round. As the Minister did, I put on record my thanks to Jo-Anne Dobson for her absolute resolution to see change. Since leaving politics, Jo-Anne has continued on the quest to pursue the issue as a real priority to help to transform the lives of the many people across Northern Ireland who need it.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer on them-uns' cows in Brazil and us-uns' cows here in Northern Ireland. How will he ensure that local and seasonal produce will be a sustainable business for our producers in Northern Ireland?”
“First, I thank the Minister for her timely remarks about a former colleague of mine. He was an officer who worked diligently, right up to this point, with many MLAs. <BR /> <BR />The Minister will know that prison operations, including the provision of services for vulnerable prisoners, are impacted by staffing levels, and there are growing concerns about staffing levels in Maghaberry, in particular. Is the Minister aware of those concerns, and what action will she take to address them?”
“We need to look at the guidance that is going to be issued, hopefully later today or tomorrow. There has been a tacit acceptance by the unions that they are broadly in favour, but there are other things that we are going to need to do to keep our pupils in our schools. We need to be agile, we need to communicate and we need to make sure that everybody is in the conversation. I urge the Minister to ensure that, with all of the technical issues, whether they relate to health or ventilation, the right people are responsible for addressing them.”
“In the communication that I am having with teachers, none of them has said that schools are becoming unsafe in terms of the COVID risk. They are becoming unsafe because of fear and the impact on teachers and school leaders of the additional workload to administer and look after their classes. <BR /> <BR />Mental health has been touched on. We have been debating mental health and mental health issues for a number of years, and mental health is one of the things that is being impacted at the moment. The guidance, as it was, was not fit for purpose because it was having an impact on the mental health not just of the pupils but of our school leaders.”
“At the Education Committee's meeting yesterday, we asked the departmental official about ventilation. They said that the guidance states that school leaders can open a window. Listen: school leaders are not ventilation experts. If we want our children to be in school safely, let us have a full ventilation assessment of our school property. Even if it means asking the Finance Minister for £10 million or £20 million, let us make sure that our schools are the safest place for our children. We do not want to have the same debates in May and June next year about exams, what to do about results and how that will pan out. We now have hindsight; we now have experience. I will let the Member for West Tyrone in.”