Robbie Butler
Lagan Valley · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Officials highlighted that alignment was provided through existing EU-derived arrangements and that coherence with existing regulatory frameworks was identified as a main consideration.”
“I note that the Member for Strangford agrees: she understands the value of our fisheries in those areas. There are other complexities. The Isle of Man Government have now done a bit of a circle around that island, which makes it difficult for our fishers from Portavogie, Kilkeel and Portaferry to craft and graft a living from some of the…”
“The Committee took the opportunity to question officials on several issues and highlight matters warranting scrutiny at Committee Stage but was not limited to those areas.”
“As the Minister said, they have possibly been viewed as competing demands, but they are not competing demands, because clean water is part of sustainable food production.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am glad to see language in the Bill on the sustainability of the aquaculture sector, and I want to lean in a bit on that. Aquaculture pastimes have, perhaps, been underutilised, whether they relate to the angling fraternity or other river and water users.”
“Today, I want to talk about a very talented young girl from Lisburn called Freya Terris. Freya, who is 17 years old, attends Friends' School and studies the piano under former Lisburn resident Rory Dowse. Freya is an incredibly accomplished young pianist and has performed in the Ulster Hall.”
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“<BR /> <BR />Members may know Ms Kelly from her active work in the voluntary and community sector over the past 30 years. She is an honours graduate in politics and economics from Queen's University and holds a master's degree from Bristol University in social science, with a focus on racism and ethnic minority communities. Ms Kelly has a wealth of experience in working with children, young people and families and has held senior roles in many children and family organisations. Since September 2015, she has been the director of Mencap Northern Ireland. During that time she has been responsible for developing a range of early intervention services for children with a learning disability and their families.”
“Members will recall that shortly after the resumption of Assembly business in January of this year, the Assembly nominated an acting ombudsman, Mr Paul McFadden, to ensure that this important role did not stay vacant until such time as the recruitment competition for the office of ombudsman was completed. I thank Mr McFadden for undertaking the role of acting ombudsman during what has been a challenging period. <BR /> <BR />The recruitment process involved myself, Mr O'Dowd, the Clerk/Chief Executive and Rosemary Agnew, the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman. I place on record my thanks to Ms Agnew for her insight and willingness to help the Commission with the competition. I am delighted to inform the House that the recruitment competition has now been concluded and that Margaret Kelly was identified as the successful candidate.”
“<BR /> <BR />Like the House when it established the ombudsman's office, the Assembly Commission believes that the ombudsman carries out an important and effective function in ensuring that there are free, independent and impartial services for handling complaints about public services in Northern Ireland. Good governance and oversight are important to enable us all to be confident that our public bodies are carrying out their functions in a fair and transparent manner. In addition, the ombudsman can initiate investigations when there is a reasonable suspicion of maladministration or, in the case of health and social care, where there is a reasonable suspicion of systemic injustice. <BR /> <BR />The ombudsman also performs the role of the Northern Ireland Judicial Appointments Ombudsman and Local Government Commissioner for Standards.”
“Thank you, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. You could say that I am a slow learner at times. What to do is actually written on my notes. I just chose to ignore it. <BR /> <BR />The Public Services Ombudsman (Northern Ireland) Act 2016 delegates to the Assembly Commission the responsibility for determining the criteria for appointment and making arrangements to identify, by fair and open competition, a person to be nominated by the Assembly for the role of ombudsman. The appointment of the ombudsman is by royal warrant and is for a single period of seven years.”
“The Public Services Ombudsman Act 2016 delegates to the Assembly Commission—.”
“That leads me to my main point: I have a serious concern about the outcome of blended learning and what we expect it to be. I am not sure how we mark that. The discrepancy between those who have and those who have not has been pointed out. Even if we did give it to them all, the safest, best and most equitable place for any child to learn is in the classroom. <BR /> <BR />We need to do everything that we can, collectively, to see every child back at school, but safely, and give the guidance as best we can to the teachers and stakeholders that we are speaking about.”
“I will absolutely. I thank the Chair for bringing that to my attention. They are another community within the education sector that is disadvantaged at times. We chatted with them on Monday and they brought a number of things to the fore. If the Minister has not spoken to them already, I am sure that he will. That is where our priorities need to be. <BR /> <BR />Mr McCrossan raised the issue of the correlation between poverty and educational outcome. Something new happened this time, with COVID. It was not just the children who find themselves socially disadvantaged. The children whose parents are key and front-line workers have not been able to avail themselves of the learning and support during these past three or four months.”
“I will print it out tomorrow and put my name to it. You will probably claim if it is good, Daniel. <BR /> <BR />The reality is that what we need to be talking about tonight are the priorities. There are serious priorities, and I want to raise a couple of them. Transport will be a big issue and a serious issue if we are still facing the COVID pandemic. Even more than that, there are our special educational needs children and the complexities of their medical care and their vulnerability. We have all these new terms like "key workers" and so on that we are all getting used to. The reality is that a lot of these children are already facing challenging times in their education.”
“There is no doubt that the intent is to have our children return as safely as possible, but the protection of everybody involved is crucial. To be fair, I do not think that the Minister has been found wanting on collaboration, even though we disagree on certain points in the guidance. <BR /> <BR />Mr Graham Gault of NAHT — he will probably want to kick me in the shins for mentioning his name — posted a tweet of 140 characters on Friday night. I reckon that, in that 140-character tweet, he summarised what the guidance should be. I do not think that it needs to be a huge document. The reality of where we will be at the end of August and the start of September is that, if COVID has been dealt with, we will return. If social distancing is not an issue, we will return.”
“<BR /> <BR />We are doing our best. I believe that everybody is doing their best. I believe that everyone in the Chamber and each party are doing their best. What we need to do is give the leadership where it is needed. Even after today, we need to give that leadership. I do not want to see teachers getting caught in the crossfire. Mr McCrossan expressed it really well when he said that teachers have stepped up to the mark. The Minister, to his credit, has made himself available to engage with teachers at every opportunity, whether that is through their unions or directly. The Committee, through the Chair, has done that on every occasion. We have met different teacher unions. I have sat in on different Zoom meetings, as the Minister has, with the Ulster Teachers' Union and other unions.”
“The motion is good; its intent is good. It talks about looking at the concerns and anxiety of all the stakeholders across the piece, of which there are many. In the debate over the last number of weeks, teachers have been used and abused from different quarters. There seemed to be some people in the print media, for instance, who were itching for a fight. They were itching to get teachers into a corner and pitch them against parents. A number of petitions from other professions were doing the rounds, which worried me greatly. Those professions seemed to be pitting themselves against teachers and calling for the mass return of children to schools in September. I understand why some people might want to see that, but let us be clear: we have never dealt with anything like COVID in our puff; never once. There is no rule book for this.”
“Catastrophise. I will have to eat more Soreen loaf and drink more tea.”
“To lighten the mood a little bit, I will say that I am glad not to be following Daniel McCrossan for a change. I follow him on the Education Committee, and I was psyching myself up. I was thinking, "We will have to do this in alphabetical order instead of me following this guy when we are talking about education". <BR /> <BR />On behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party, I welcome the motion and the amendment and their intent. As has been picked out, they perhaps have some imperfections but, in the round, we will support them. When we talk about our pupils' return to school and the safety of the staff and all those who are connected with schools, it is really important that we are careful not to "catastrocise" every conversation that we have.”
“He touched lives both in life and in death. <BR /> <BR />Mr Deputy Speaker, we will remember Noah Donohoe with absolute pride, and we thank his mother and his family for how they have allowed us to be part of his story.”
“I can only say that if you have not been part of something like that, looking for someone who is lost is something that you do with fear and a knot in your stomach. The bigger part of you wants to find the person alive, but there is another part of you that does not want to find something tragic. You do it out of a sense of it being necessary to do in order to bring release and closure to the family or to achieve that miracle that we all prayed for. It is with regret that that miracle did not happen in the way that we know that miracles can. Noah himself was a miracle, however. Noah was a treasure to his family. He is the pride of his family, and that will never be lost. Look at the lives that he touched, through his multiple skills, which Mr O'Toole pointed out: his sporting prowess, his musical ability and his smile.”
“He was a beautiful young man, and I think that every one of us, having looked at the photographs of him, listened to this story and followed the proceedings, will have been brought to tears, or near to tears, at times. When you put yourself in the shoes of Fiona his mother and his wider and extended family, I cannot think of a worse fear as a parent that you could be faced with than the loss of your child. <BR /> <BR />Our thoughts are with his school and with his family predominantly, but, as was rightly pointed out by Mr Humphrey, a community mobilised to search and to try to attain a miracle, where Noah would be found alive and well and returned to his family. As was rightly pointed out, the emergency services and the voluntary services provided much of the search resource and expertise.”
“I pass on the sympathy, regret and prayers of the Ulster Unionist Party, and on my behalf as a father. There is no doubt, however, that through this tragedy you do not need to be a parent to feel the pain of that family and to feel the pain of the community, which is for the loss of a young life all too soon. <BR /> <BR />I commend the Members who have spoken so far. What you get is a real sense of loss and of the tragedy that it is. There will be no more important issue that we talk about here today, regardless of the topic. <BR /> <BR />As Mr O'Toole rightly pointed out, Noah has been painted by his teachers, his friends, his peers and his family as a uniquely talented young man. Mr O'Dowd pointed out his infectious smile.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He does not often get a chance to speak, so this will get him an extra minute. Will the Member agree with me that the Minister has, in the very short period that he has been in place, taken exceptional steps to meet the epidemic of mental ill health and suicide, given that we had a three-year hiatus in this place when mental health was not the priority?”
“<BR /> <BR />I think that out of the legacy of one of our most regrettable circumstances — the level of poor mental health and the high rates of suicide — if we can look at one of our darkest marks and do something transformative, what a light this place could be. We will support the amendments and the motion.”
“I told you that I was not going to talk for 10 minutes but I probably am. I am probably going to use the last minute and a half, and that is OK. To pull my contribution together, there is only one way that this will work and it is not just the responsibility of Robin Swann, as Minister, or the Department of Health. It is a collective responsibility. I see this as how the Executive might work in the longer-term, if we can prioritise mental health and protecting and saving life, does it matter whether you are a unionist, nationalist, other or neither? Does it really? Can we show the people out there that we have a priority that we share and that we are going to work collectively to achieve it?”
“In Lisburn, there are a few that I will mention — forgive me, if anybody is listening, if I miss you out — the Atlas Women's Centre, Via Wings in Dromore, the Resurgam Trust and the COVID-19 Ballymacash Response. Those guys, when they went out with food, met a different need. They did not even know, sometimes, the benefit of what they were doing by just smiling at somebody and showing kindness. Kindness. Kindness is a big part of this cure; it is better than a tablet, and I think that it is something that we can lead the way on. As Van Morrison said:”
“Those nurses, doctors, care workers and those people who are working in the community — who are still working in the community through very difficult circumstances — who are, in many instances, probably not being paid enough to do the job that they do in providing the link between the outside world and the loneliness of living alone or being in hospital for treatment and enduring sicknesses. Therefore, for those nurses and care workers, we say thank you. For those doctors who stand in the gap, we say thank you. <BR /> <BR />The biggest purpose of the motion is to talk about the community groups and charities that have shown great innovation over the past weeks, and it has been wonderful to see. They have had to adapt their strategies and their way of working to meet the differing needs of the people who have needed them.”
“There has been no respite for us. I am not asking for anybody to have any sympathy, but you will know that there has been an impact on everybody who has been contacting you. Whether it has been a business that has been struggling to work out the furlough and to work out whether they are entitled to grants, and great work has been done. However, all that stress and angst adds up into a toxic mix, and that is, sometimes, where mental health and ill mental health comes from. <BR /> <BR />As has been pointed out, we have to give thanks to those who have been standing in the gap and those who have been bridging the gap and meeting the need for those people who, for instance, perhaps already had poor mental health.”
“There are the visiting restrictions in hospitals and nursing homes, and the inability to see those people who are probably on a palliative path, who are certainly ill, and could do with a cuddle, a handshake or a kiss. Those are things that should resonate with each and every one of us. <BR /> <BR />We have refugees and asylum seekers who already, at times, find it difficult to integrate into our communities. Have we forgotten about those people during the COVID-19 crisis? I hope not. I was on a call, I think on Friday, with a group and it was interesting. They were talking about the Northern Irish spirit and how much they enjoy being here, but, throughout COVID-19, did we do enough? We certainly need to try harder. <BR /> <BR />Like me, I am sure that, throughout the pandemic, your inboxes have been busier than before.”
“That is what it does; It does not make it any more complicated, guys. What are the COVID implications? One of them, and the most stark, is the bereavement process. People have died, through COVID, and people have not been able to grieve or have the burial or wake in the normal manner that we are accustomed to. That is something that is going to have an outcome, with a cost to bear, and we need to support those people. <BR /> <BR />On loneliness and isolation, I commend Sinéad Bradley as the chair of the APG on preventing loneliness, and she has been leading the battle on that, but loneliness existed before COVID-19. It has been magnified and exacerbated, but it is about the society that we live in. It is a societal change that we need. We need to provide the leadership for that.”
“It was good to note that the first two Members to speak gave the Health Minister credit because he did not just look at COVID and say that he was going to sit here and look at it. He followed through with the pre-New Decade, New Approach commitments and said that we would have a mental health action plan, and that has started, and we are going to look at the mental health champion, a commitment since 2016, and I hope that that is delivered very soon. There is a further commitment for the mental health strategy, starting by December this year, and looking at a 10-year strategy. These are all very welcome, needed and will help us to save lives. <BR /> <BR />Now that we have the impact of COVID, and all the related matters that, whilst they do not complicate it, perhaps consolidate our focus on the need to do this together.”
“I look forward to the Minister for Communities looking at that with regard to new legislation. <BR /> <BR />I commend Órlaithí Flynn, the chair of the all-party group on suicide, on her work to target the message of the zero suicide figure, which is something that we support. <BR /> <BR />There are many reports on poor mental health across many communities and sectors. I urge everyone to not allow us to get to the point of paralysis by analysis. We are reported out. We have enough reports. We know what we should be doing and we need to target our resources, support each other and put our collective shoulders to the wheel, not just the Executive but in the Assembly, to see real progress.”
“<BR /> <BR />I became a Member in 2016, and we talked about the correlation between poverty, social deprivation, criminality, addictions and poor mental health. Those are all things that are in the fabric of our society in Northern Ireland that we really need to tackle and get to grips with. It is worth noting that a number of reports point out that, through the COVID pandemic, addictions — alcohol, gambling and drugs — are being targeted to those who are the most vulnerable. In their downtime, they are being exposed to even greater risk, and we need to do something about that. <BR /> <BR />It is my absolute privilege to chair the new all-party group (APG) on tackling gambling-related harm. I would like it to be noted that that is a real issue through the COVID pandemic: those people, who are gambling addicts, are coming to real harm.”
“The Minister has already made a commitment to that. I am sure that if he had the support of the Executive, with regard to the finance, we could do much more. I believe that if we work collegiately — to use the word again — we could achieve much more. <BR /> <BR />I am now a member of the Education Committee. I assure you that, if you were to sit in on the Committee, you would see that — as happened today in the Chamber with the Minister — every opportunity that I get, and other Committee members get, is used to ask, "What are you doing to tackle mental ill health?" The fabric of the building, the support that teachers can get, the support of our teachers, pupils, families and their children.”
“This is for the Department for Communities, the Department of Justice, the Department for the Economy and the Department of Education. If we are going to catch the tail of this problem and epidemic, which existed long before COVID, we have to act responsibly and in a collegiate manner. <BR /> <BR />I will get to the COVID-specific issues in a minute but I am particularly pleased with the contributions so far. Mental health is not new and poor mental health is not new. The problems that people are facing, out of COVID, existed before and are the same problems. Perinatal mental health has already been mentioned by Mrs Cameron. That is so important because if we cannot get off to the right start, with mums who are pregnant and babies in those early years, what are we storing up for ourselves in the future?”
“I want to thank the party that tabled the motion, which was moved by Mrs Cameron, and Sinn Féin for tabling the amendment that was moved by Órlaithí. Another amendment was proposed by the SDLP, which very much mirrored our amendment. I will speak in favour of the motion and both amendments and I urge every Member to support them as well. <BR /> <BR />There is no doubt that mental health is everyone's business. I had written a few things down, in preparation for speaking, but the two Members who have spoken have blown me out of the water because they have got it in spades. They have accepted that mental health is everyone's business. Whilst the purpose and intent of the motion calls on the Health Minister, it recognises that, actually, this is across the full Executive.”
“On a subject as important as mental health and, ultimately, suicide prevention, we could not be talking about anything more important here tonight. It is one of the only subjects where I will not have written notes, because I am so passionate about it.”
“Thank you, Mr Temporary Speaker, if that is the right terminology. I will not use my full 10 minutes. <BR /> <BR />As Van Morrison once said, in the final words of his spoken song 'Coney Island':”
“I thank the Minister for his announcements today and, whilst none of them extend to Lagan Valley, I join in the thanks that everybody has given from their respective areas for the schools that have benefited. You did talk, Minister, about emerging regulations aimed at bringing our public buildings to a near-zero net emissions target, which is appropriate, ambitious and commendable, but I would have liked to have heard a line about therapeutic design. When we talk to young people, the number-one issue that they talk about is mental ill health, and schools and the school environment have a major part to play. I would like to have heard a commitment towards a zero-suicide-focused design. Can the Minister give us a commitment today that that is indeed the case, and it was just omitted from his statement?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Will the Member accept that, when delivering life and death messages about matters of public safety, as I have had to do with fire safety messages, there is no best-case scenario? The Executive and the Health Minister's decision was right because it maximised the amount of lives saved by taking that line of action.”
“I want to pick up on a point that was made by Mr Frew about industry, but it relates to COVID as well. Does the Member agree that the time of greatest risk is often the transition period when people's guard is down? That confers on us the responsibility to ensure that we do not act in haste and repent at leisure with such a dangerous epidemic.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He has raised an important topic under the COVID-19 restrictions and the further impact of poverty on families that were not experiencing poverty before. The Member will, I think, be reminded of a Long Gallery event last year — I think it was hosted by Children in Northern Ireland — when we talked about food poverty and child food poverty. There was an example in Portadown of a charity where a mum was sending in a lunch box that was empty but for a note asking the charity to feed that child. <BR /> <BR />Would the Member agree that it is lamentable that we are still talking about that in 2020, and it takes something like COVID for us to seriously address it in the Assembly?”
“<BR /> <BR />As was said to me, recently, by the Speaker, Billy Bell was a gentleman of the highest order. I will go one step further and say that without the Billy Bells of this world, politics in Northern Ireland would be a poorer place. Thank you.”
“Moreover, I do not think that anyone will disagree that navigating Northern Ireland politics from the mid-'70s, through the '80s, '90s and into the new millennium was an easy task by any stretch of the imagination. <BR /> <BR />In recent months, we have seen the passing of a number of former Members, including Lagan Valley's Ivan Davis and Seamus Close, and, more recently, our friend and colleague John Dallat. In remembering them, we can see that the class of 1998 was a special bunch of politicians. Whilst the media may have focused on the party leaders, leading up to and beyond the signing of the Good Friday Agreement, I, for one, am sure that the foundations and relationships that were laid by Billy over previous years in council and, more laterally, in the Assembly paved the way for the peace that was delivered that year.”
“<BR /> <BR />Billy had the honour of representing the people of Lagan Valley in the Assembly, as do I. I have often heard his name mentioned by constituents, always in the same manner. He was one of those people who was held in high esteem by friend and foe alike. Although he was a proud unionist to the core, Billy wanted to make politics work for all the communities of Northern Ireland. He wanted to make this a better, peaceful and more prosperous place for future generations. Throughout the decades, Billy made friends more readily than he made enemies. The word I have heard spoken, more than others, to describe Billy is "gentleman". He will be fondly remembered not only by fellow unionists but by people across the House and across Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />Billy's political career spread across some 30 years, which is no mean feat.”
“Billy's first foray into politics was not in Lisburn; it was, as the Deputy Speaker said, in Belfast City Council. There, he quickly established a reputation for being a politician of great character — one who wanted to do business on behalf of the entire community. Perhaps some of that was down to Billy's previous work in public relations, a field in which he ran a company, Billy Bell Promotions. I do not think that any of us will give him too much credit for the thought that went into the name, but, Billy, we are eternally grateful for your contribution to politics. <BR /> <BR />As the Deputy Speaker outlined, Billy has, perhaps singularly, the accolade of being Northern Ireland's first mayor of two cities, albeit Lisburn developed city status latterly. He was Mayor of Belfast in 1979 and Mayor of Lisburn in 2003.”
“It is an honour to pay my respects, even briefly, and the respects of the Ulster Unionist Party and the Assembly to the late William Bradshaw Bell, or Billy Bell as he was affectionately known and called. Billy, sadly, left us on 9 June 2020. He will be forever missed by his wife, Leona; his children Julie-Anne, Leona, Willie and Kathryn; his grandchildren Stuart, Charlotte, Rebecca, Anna, Leona, Debbie, Stephen and Amy; and great-grandchildren Ava and Kealan. <BR /> <BR />Billy was readily recognisable to me, and people like me, as a proud champion of Lisburn and Lagan Valley, but he was born in Belfast, in 1935. He attended Fane Street Primary School, which, I learned only over the past few days, my dad attended, albeit in a different decade.”
“Thank you for giving way. There were debates in the previous session around 2016 about in-custody deaths of prisoners. It is a very sad thing when any prisoner loses their life. At the time, I got the chance to speak on it, and I know from Prison Service staff who deal with prisoners that there is a high prevalence of mental ill health in prisons. Would the Member accept that, for prison officers dealing with people with a high prevalence of mental ill health — the very fact that they have criminal sentences — and high levels of addiction, that is a further trauma and that the build-up of the traumas that prison officers face is exponential in comparison with any other profession? They care about the mental health of prisoners and put themselves at risk to protect the mental health of the prisoners that you talk about.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does he agree that it was a change to the conditions of service for the Prison Service that led to this? It did, at one time, have its own conditions and sickness procedures. There was a change a number of years ago, which the Minister might refer to. It has been a retrograde step to change that, and if that is the case, why can we not change back and why should the Prison Service, when it is faced with so many pressures every day that lead to these conditions, not seek that change through the motion?”
“I ask Members to take on board that there is no intention behind the motion other than to do the very best for prison officers.”
“Do you know what has changed? It used to be that if you had urine thrown over you, you could report it and the police were brought in and it was investigated. Not now. They have adopted a new standard and that is not even an assault any more. It is scandalous how our Prison Service staff have been treated. <BR /> <BR />What are the implications for the future, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, if you will indulge me for 30 seconds? We are storing up a real problem for the Prison Service when it comes to retention. We have devalued the job as regards pay and the ridiculous attendance policy and its focus on inefficiency. It is scandalous. My solidarity is with many of my former colleagues who have had to leave the job early. We are storing up a problem with retention and valuing our Prison Service operational staff.”
“I absolutely would. The former Justice Minister, Claire Sugden, made that her priority, and I hope that, after today's debate, the Justice Minister makes it her number-one priority. As I said, prison officers are not civil servants; they are operational prison officers. I operated an attendance management policy in the Fire Service. It was not a Civil Service policy. It was for the Fire Service. We need a bespoke policy that goes further than the intention of the motion. What is being put forward by my colleague Doug Beattie is reasonable. <BR /> <BR />What happens when that heightened sense of hyper-vigilance manifests itself? It is about the impact that it has on your mental health. We talk about PTSD and we know what a trauma or a physical assault looks like. Some officers talked about urine being poured over them.”
“I applaud the Finance Minister for being here and I thank him for that, but I would have liked the Justice Minister to hear about the staff who work under her tutelage. You are concerned about your safety and the safety of the members of your team. You are hyper-vigilant.”
“Mr Frew talked about going into the prison in a suit. If you ever get the chance to be an undercover prison officer, that is the only way that you will experience what it is like. The management and the officers are on their best behaviour when you are there and you are safe. Even the prisoners watch their P's and Q's to a certain extent. It is worth doing. <BR /> <BR />You are in an environment where you are not only concerned with your own safety and that of the prisoners — not all prisoners are bad or naughty; some are there because of circumstances — but the safety of your team. Over the years, the Prison Service has been faced with cuts. I am disappointed that the Justice Minister is not with us.”
“I went from being a butcher, when I enjoyed being the chatty man across the counter who was not under threat, to being in a really obscene environment.”