Robbie Butler
Lagan Valley · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Officials highlighted that alignment was provided through existing EU-derived arrangements and that coherence with existing regulatory frameworks was identified as a main consideration.”
“I note that the Member for Strangford agrees: she understands the value of our fisheries in those areas. There are other complexities. The Isle of Man Government have now done a bit of a circle around that island, which makes it difficult for our fishers from Portavogie, Kilkeel and Portaferry to craft and graft a living from some of the…”
“The Committee took the opportunity to question officials on several issues and highlight matters warranting scrutiny at Committee Stage but was not limited to those areas.”
“As the Minister said, they have possibly been viewed as competing demands, but they are not competing demands, because clean water is part of sustainable food production.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am glad to see language in the Bill on the sustainability of the aquaculture sector, and I want to lean in a bit on that. Aquaculture pastimes have, perhaps, been underutilised, whether they relate to the angling fraternity or other river and water users.”
“Today, I want to talk about a very talented young girl from Lisburn called Freya Terris. Freya, who is 17 years old, attends Friends' School and studies the piano under former Lisburn resident Rory Dowse. Freya is an incredibly accomplished young pianist and has performed in the Ulster Hall.”
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“I thank the Minister for giving way. It is an important issue. I talked last week about the need to review the performance and non-performance of the Executive. To be clear, the Minister has read out that the impact of not having Stormont or Ministers in post for five years has been a deterioration in the condition of our environment, which impacts public health and everything else that we have discussed today.”
“It is about safeguarding public health, supporting biodiversity and ensuring that Northern Ireland's water systems remain a vital part of our shared heritage on this island. I was warmed by Mr Blair's words on the commitments that the Minister will, hopefully, make.”
“Fair play. Thanks for the intervention. In answer to the Member, absolutely. The thing to remember is that water flows both ways. The Republic's plan only began to be embedded at the start of September. I know that we are on a globe and it tilts a bit, but water runs from the south as far as it runs to the north. We are in this together. I will have to truncate my speech and get to my last paragraph, which I am gutted about. <BR /> <BR />The motion rightly demands immediate action from DAERA on the delay, which is not just a bureaucratic inconvenience but has tangible, damning consequences. The river basin plan needs to be updated, published and, crucially, implemented.”
“I cannot believe that you have given me only a minute to respond to that. The Member had more time than most of us have had to speak”
“Lough Neagh, the largest fresh water lake in the UK, is a hub for agriculture, fisheries and tourism, but the state of water management threatens its ecological future. If we continue to allow pollutants to flow unchecked into our rivers and lakes, we risk losing not only the fish and the birds but a critical part of what makes Northern Ireland Northern Ireland. That is Northern Ireland.”
“Those are not the kind of toxins that you wash away; they accumulate in your body and stay there like an uninvited guest at a party. <BR /> <BR />Those pollutants also damage our ecosystems, leading to the deterioration of biodiversity, which, frankly, is like pulling the rug out from under environmental balance. It is not just about saving the cute otters or majestic herons, though we should do that; it is about the intricate web of life — the fish, plants and insects, which are all doing their bit to keep nature ticking over — that the water bodies support. Waterways like Lough Neagh and, indeed, Lough Erne are not just picturesque postcard material; they represent Northern Ireland's heritage and are a crucial part of our identity.”
“That is not just an inconvenience: it is our environmental heritage and a public health crisis wrapped in algae and pollutants. <BR /> <BR />Water is not merely a resource to be exploited; it is a human right. Clean water is essential for drinking, agriculture and recreation. It is also vital to public health, and the state of Northern Ireland's water bodies is a health hazard. According to the Office for Environmental Protection's recent report, the majority of rivers and lakes are not meeting the required standards, with widespread contamination by persistent pollutants. That poses a clear threat to human health, with increased exposure to harmful substances such as ubiquitous, persistent, bioaccumulative, toxic (uPBT) substances.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. The motion on the failure of the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs to meet the deadlines for the river basin management plan reflects a critical issue that is both urgent and, dare I say it, a little fluid. The fundamental failures identified in the motion relate not only to the missed deadlines but to the inadequacy of water quality management in Northern Ireland, which is an area that is as essential to public health as air but is far less celebrated. While one might be tempted to start by pointing fingers or drowning in the technical jargon of water regulations, let us boil this down to something simple: our rivers and lakes, which are supposed to be the lifeblood of our ecosystems and human health, are in trouble.”
“I thank the Minister for standing in for the Justice Minister. It is an incredibly sensitive time to be speaking. We had reports yesterday of a young child in Dungannon losing their life in suspicious circumstances, and a number of people have been arrested. Inarguably, young people are disproportionately affected when women are killed or when violence is inflicted on them. Does the Minister agree that what we have been doing over recent years is perhaps not working and that enhanced custodial sentences may need to form part of the strategy's wider work?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. Some legislation is passing through Westminster. Certainly, a White Paper was produced, and I believe that the Labour Government will bring that through. Will the Minister's Department work with the UK Government on that, and, if we do not have the facility or recourse here, can we expedite things by tabling something at Westminster?”
“— have to attend schools other than the one closest to them. Will the Minister commit to a full and fundamental review and reform of the transport policy?”
“I thank the Minister for his update and the news of a new digital solution, but I do not think that the digital solution will reach into the policy failures here. It is a draconian transport policy. We see failures every year, particularly around the transfer test, with parents having to opt for schools that do not comply with the policy. There are also bullying issues where young people —”
“The Committee then divided on the motion. There was a quorum — five members — and the Committee divided, with two Ayes and three Noes. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, the majority of the members present at that meeting when the vote was taken agreed to put down a prayer of annulment. Members also considered the twenty-third report of the Examiner of Statutory Rules at its meeting on 10 October, which included this SR. The Committee noted that the Examiner of Statutory Rules did not draw special attention to it.”
“Officials explained that DAERA could not carry out certain checks on imported hops without them and that documentary checks would continue at the point of entry. Officials went on to highlight the future-proofing elements for potential hop growers here. At that juncture, some members flagged the potential for seeking a prayer of annulment, but the Committee agreed that the Department should proceed to make the SR in the meantime. <BR /> <BR />The SR came before the Committee at its meeting of 26 September. My predecessor, Lord Elliott, reminded the Committee that it had taken a second oral briefing to attempt to address any concerns. He then put the following motion to the Committee:”
“The Committee noted that the SR was to be laid before the Assembly under the negative resolution procedure and that it was anticipated that it would come into operation on 18 October. <BR /> <BR />Members again considered the amendments to the 1979 regulations as they apply here to, first, update references to the new EU legislation for hops certification and, secondly, reflect the changes that have been introduced by the new EU legislation. A number of members again expressed concern regarding the need for separate regulations and divergence from the United Kingdom. The Committee agreed to write to the Department to request an oral briefing to get more information on the extent of that divergence. <BR /> <BR />That second oral briefing took place on 19 September. Again, some members queried the need for the specific regulations.”
“Lastly, the regulations allow for electronic documentation: digital attestations of equivalence that must accompany hops that are imported from third countries. In addition, officials stated that, in the rest of the UK, the relevant hops certification legislation remains the UK-wide Hops Certification Regulations 1979. <BR /> <BR />I understand that some members highlighted a number of concerns regarding the need for the regulations, given that there are no hop growers in Northern Ireland. Some members also highlighted the involvement of the Windsor framework and potential divergence from the United Kingdom. The next time the Committee considered the proposed SR was on 12 September, when it had before it the Department's SL1.”
“The EU regulations for hops certification have introduced several changes, however. First, the cost of certification is to be carried by operators except where member states decide otherwise. The Rural Payments Agency, which is the certification authority for GB and Northern Ireland, does not charge operators for hops-related certificates or services. The regulations would allow that derogation to continue. Secondly, brewers must declare the particulars of hops harvested on their land to the competent certification authority by 15 November each year. Currently, that date is 31 October, so it is a two-week extension. Thirdly, the regulations increase the maximum weight where certification rules do not apply for sales to individuals for their own use.”
“It was noted that new European Commission-delegated and implementing regulations for hops certification came into force on 27 March, and new regulations for the import of hops, rice, cereal and sugar from third countries came into force on 20 December 2023. It was noted that EU hops legislation relating to certification and third country imports is directly applicable here under the annex of the Windsor framework. <BR /> <BR />The Committee felt that it needed a fuller oral briefing from officials, which took place on 20 June 2024, when the following points were explained in more detail. The amending statutory rule (SR) is required to provide enforcement powers for the updated EU rules. It seeks to replicate the current UK hops regulations as far as possible, with no change to underlying policy.”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. This is my first speech as Chair of the Committee for Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs. It is not the speech that I would have wished for, as I was not in the Chair for the scrutiny of these regulations; that was, in fact, my predecessor, Lord Elliott. My Committee colleagues, who are more knowledgeable on the matter, may shed more light in their speeches, and I look forward to listening to the debate. <BR /> <BR />Scrutiny of the Hops Certification (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2024 began at the Committee meeting on 9 May 2024, when members considered correspondence from the Department advising of the eight-week consultation and the information that went out to stakeholders.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will go back to it: to those who have previously felt compelled to walk off the political pitch in protest I say this: "When you do so, you remove a vital pillar of reform, a vital pillar of transformation, and you remove hope. If you ever feel compelled to do it again, remember that". If we abandon our responsibility, we leave behind the very children who need us most. <BR /> <BR />The motion calls for immediate, sustained action and demands collaboration across sectors. We must work together to ensure that the recommendations of the review are not just implemented but properly funded and resourced. Children and families across Northern Ireland depend on us to deliver. Let us not fail them again.”
“<BR /> <BR />The key theme from Reimagine Children's Collective, which has tirelessly advocated for some of our most marginalised children, reminds us that progress is possible but only through collaboration. The collective has shown that we can bring about real change and that we can and do need to work together. That is something that, as an Assembly, we strive to do. In particular, the Minister of Health will need that intervention and help from the Minister of Education, the Minister of Justice, in particular, and the Minister for Communities. We all need to face in the same direction to deliver transformative change.”
“I pay tribute to the health professionals working in paediatric care, both physical and mental, and to those in the community and voluntary sector, in particular, to whom we owe our utmost gratitude. Their essential, life-breathing support is nothing short of amazing. <BR /> <BR />The recommendations in Professor Ray Jones's review are not just guidelines; they are a blueprint for the transformation that we desperately need. When we look at the rising rates of child poverty and the record numbers of children in care, we see that we really are failing too many of our young people. Each of those children deserves the opportunity to thrive, and the growing complexities of their needs cannot be ignored.”
“<BR /> <BR />Let us not forget the grim reality that we face: rising rates of child poverty; record numbers of children in care; a shortage of foster carers, which has been talked about; and the multiplicity of challenges faced by prospective adopters. Those children are not just statistics; they are lives in need of urgent care and compassion, as were the children who did not have advocacy here when we were not here for five years. <BR /> <BR />I pay tribute to those working in social services, who face overwhelming bureaucratic challenges, increasingly complex workforce issues and the difficult task of helping families to navigate complexities that are never easily untangled. I am sure that Members come across those examples.”
“<BR /> <BR />Please, when you speak about change and transformation, review what we have done and not done in the House. I will not get tired of reminding people in here of that, because those children, over that period, did not have advocacy in the House. It is time that we shook ourselves up and wobbled our heads. It is imperative that we stay committed to the work, as our absence removes the possibility of the very progress that we claim to seek. The Reimagine Children's Collective has been a shining example of collaborative advocacy for some of the most marginalised children in our society. Its work shows us the power of standing together to push for meaningful change.”
“Let us make no bones about it: those circumstances existed more than 16 months ago; they existed more than 32 months ago; and they extended before my time in the Assembly. <BR /> <BR />As an Assembly, we stand at a great moment of scrutiny in our attitude to children and young people. However, I refer to when we walk off the pitch in political protest at failures, whether they are perceived or real. When we do that, we abandon the first and most crucial pillar of reform, transformation and change that a Minister can affect. I will continue to remind those in the House who still justify their three- and two-year absences that those five years of lost time will be measured in five years of lost progress and five years of lost transformative opportunities to bring and manifest changes in the life of those young people.”
“I fully support the motion with, like the Member who just spoke, a particular emphasis on the value of prevention, early intervention and ongoing support for our children and young people. The motion should be more than just words: it should be about demonstrating in our words and, more importantly, our actions, that their lives matter. Regardless of the start that they have had in life and regardless of their circumstances and of how bereft of hope they have been made to feel, we are here to say that we care. However, it is not just about caring. We must care enough to act on the far-reaching recommendations set out in Professor Ray Jones's review of children's services.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. He will forgive my ignorance — I am just chipping in to the discussion — but I think that we are all facing the same direction when it comes to our environmental credentials and the ambition of farmers. As a former butcher, I remember Brazilian beef coming in. Is there not a risk that we replace and increase globally the impact on our environment if we do not handle this issue sensitively, given that we produce some of the finest produce in the world here locally?”
“Let us not forget, as I mentioned, the mental health toll that uncertainty brings. Farmers already face incredible pressures: weather, fluctuating markets and rising costs. The added uncertainty over future funding compounds the stress, leading to increased anxiety, depression and, sometimes, worse. The Assembly has a duty to mitigate that stress by providing clarity, stability and support for our farming community. We must now focus on securing the future of our farmers, rural businesses and food security. We must secure the funding necessary to ensure that our farmers remain competitive, environmentally sustainable and resilient to the challenges ahead.”
“Those farmers and supply chain businesses are the lifeblood of rural Northern Ireland, and their success is linked directly to the prosperity of our rural communities. Any reduction in support would endanger the upstream benefits that those businesses provide: jobs, economic activity and social stability. We must protect the livelihoods of rural communities by increasing agriculture funding, thereby ensuring the continued economic vitality of our rural areas.”
“Only by supporting farmers in adopting renewable energy sources can we reduce energy costs and contribute to a greener economy. <BR /> <BR />The impact of this issue, however, extends beyond the farms. Thousands of supply-chain companies across Northern Ireland depend on the spending power of our farmers. Those businesses provide essential services from machinery suppliers to food processors. Many of them are located in rural areas where alternative employment opportunities are limited or, indeed, non-existent. Any reduction in future agriculture budgets would have a significant ripple effect, threatening the livelihoods of countless rural businesses and families. The socio-economic impact of underfunding our farmers would be devastating to the broader rural economy.”
“Northern Ireland's agri-food sector, which plays a vital role in feeding our communities and supporting rural economies, needs a stable and predictable funding model. <BR /> <BR />As we look at the volatility of global food and energy markets, investing in local food production and sustainable farming practices becomes even more critical. A failure to invest in those areas will jeopardise our food security and increase our reliance on costly imports. Our long-term resilience depends on empowering our farmers with the resources that they need to innovate, thrive and provide locally. <BR /> <BR />In addition, I urge us to increase investment in renewable energy and energy efficiency in the agriculture sector. Agriculture can and should be part of the solution to our energy challenge.”
“<BR /> <BR />In response, we support the call for increased farm support and development funding. Specifically, we need to adjust the annual ring-fenced allocation for agricultural funding from £324·9 million to around £390 million, reflecting the effects of inflation, and that has been picked up on by a number of Members already. Farmers are already operating in increasingly competitive global markets, and it is essential that they have the resources that are needed to remain viable and competitive. Moreover, we must commit to long-term sustainable funding. That is why we must develop a more robust funding strategy that adjusts annually for inflation. We cannot afford to revisit this crisis of uncertainty every few years.”
“They also promoted environmentally sustainable farming practices, allowing our farmers to adopt greener technologies and to protect our rural landscapes. That support system, which was in place for decades, not only helped our farmers but had ripple effects throughout rural communities and the economy. Now, however, our farming community stands at a critical juncture, with the loss of £300 million annually from the basic payment scheme and the uncertainty of what may follow hanging over the agriculture sector, and the tension is palpable. It is not just about numbers: that uncertainty fuels stress and anxiety, contributing to a mental health crisis amongst farmers and their families. The weight of not knowing how they will make ends meet or how they can plan for the future takes a significant toll on their well-being.”
“Thanks for your clarity, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker, as to how the motion and the amendments will be taken and how we will vote on that. I welcome the motion from the Sinn Féin Member and the amendments that have been tabled. They are all pitching in the right direction, which is in support and recognition of the hard work that our farmers do. The issue touches not only on the heart of rural communities but what I consider to be the backbone of our economy. <BR /> <BR />We are here to address the uncertainty surrounding the future of agricultural funding, following the end of the CAP single farm payments and the looming conclusion of the basic payment scheme in 2024. Let us first acknowledge the tremendous value that the CAP payments provided. They ensured that our farms, particularly small family farms, remained financially viable.”
“I thank the deputy First Minister for her answer. If we continue to repeat the sins of the past, we will never get any better. In my estimation, it is unarguable that the failure to have government here for five years out of eight impacted on our ability to have a Programme for Government and on people's lives. Will the deputy First Minister give an undertaking to the House that a conversation will be had to learn from the mistakes of the past so that we can move into a better dispensation for the people of Northern Ireland?”
“I do not think that I get an extra minute, even though the Deputy Speaker is from my party, so I am going to finish. That is absolutely right. It is really important that we get this right today. The Minister will speak about the facts, but the issue speaks to a wider pressure that we have with our climate credentials. We are still shipping off too much waste, and we have not been brave enough to step in to the methods that we could use to reduce our own refuse. This has been a very interesting debate.”
“What can we do to ensure that, wherever those facilities exist or wherever we are placing our landfill, the people who neighbour those facilities have a clear understanding of what they should be entitled to? What can we do, as legislators and through our local government, to ensure that those things are made clear?”
“We never want to get to the point where our constituents have to take matters like this into their own hands in order to get recourse. <BR /> <BR />When I was listening to Colin, I was trying to think of any questions that I could ask the Minister. Colin rhymed some off, and they were excellent questions. I have two questions in particular that the Minister could perhaps pick up. The first one is on the powers that exist when you are in inspection and those that exist post-inspection for bringing the remedy. Secondly, what standards should people who neighbour those facilities expect to be entitled to? We should all be good neighbours, and I have no doubt that Re-Gen is trying to be a good neighbour.”
“Those are the realities that people face if trying to do business or sell a property when something is putting people off. Many years ago, Lisburn had a burn house. To be fair, the smell from it probably travelled about 10 miles: it was an equitable pollutant, but you would not put up with it today. Whilst I do not blame the Minister, and, in this instance, I do not blame Re-Gen, in particular, we need to face into the problems, and we need solutions. <BR /> <BR />Without prejudice to anything that is going on — perhaps the Minister will update us — at the time, the residents of Mullaghglass tried — unsuccessfully — to find a remedy before the dump was closed. However, at the start of this year, the Supreme Court picked up the case.”
“In an area bordering Belfast, a number of years ago, constituents of mine had similar concerns about the Mullaghglass refuse site. <BR /> <BR />The reality is that recycling and dealing with refuse remains one of the biggest challenges that we will face as a legislature. I have been looking forward to working with the Minister as we go forward in this mandate to tackle that emerging problem. However, we have to deal with the day that we are in, and, today, people in Warrenpoint are faced with the same challenges that my constituents faced: the reduction of and detriment to their residential facility; the detriment to their leisure facility and use of their properties; and the potential detriment, which was raised with me, to their property value.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, I thank you for your indulgence in allowing me to speak in the Adjournment debate. As someone from Lagan Valley, I am somewhat of an interloper in matters regarding South Down, but, obviously, as changes have been made, I might be in for a few more AERA Adjournment debates, as long as tomorrow comes. <BR /> <BR />This is an important matter, and Members have displayed how passionately they feel about it. Like others, I have received many emails from people who have been affected in Warrenpoint. I have friends who work and live there, so I have some evidence of it, but I have to declare that I have not been to Warrenpoint for a number of years. I will speak from the perspective of the communications that I have had and the experience that we had in Lisburn.”
“I thank the Member for saying that he will support our amendment. It is right to get into the technicalities. The Department of Health is still facing pressures of around £200 million, however. Although £1·8 million may not sound like a lot, if you are already £200 million in the red, it does not matter if you are looking for another pound, another £1·8 million or another £18 million, because you still need more money.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I do not know whether he has been in the Chamber when the Education Minister has, on multiple occasions, been challenged on the transformation needed for special educational needs. Every response that he has given has been, "Give me the money, and I will make the changes". Does it not seem hypocritical that the DUP seems to be talking out of one side of its mouth on Education and out of the other on Health?”
“Let us be in no doubt, however, that, if the Health Minister had the money to deliver, he would deliver the asks of the Chamber. I ask the House to reflect on the fact that those conversations need to be had in conjunction particularly with the Minister of Finance and Executive colleagues.”
“Whilst core-granted organisations alone may hold annual formal contracts to the tune of almost ten times the £3·6 million, there is no doubt that the sector provides value for money hand over fist in everything that it does. A pound invested in the community and voluntary sector often goes so much further than the same pound would do in the health and social care system. <BR /> <BR />Every day, I see the innovation as well as the efficiency on display in the sector, but it needs clarity. That is why, whilst I welcome the retention of some of the funding this year, in reality we need a new scheme. I very much hope that the conversations that are happening currently, including the one today in the Chamber and those across the sector, lead to a successful outcome for everyone.”
“Whilst there was then some hope following the restoration of the Executive, unfortunately the budgetary reality, along with the Assembly and the Executive's decision to pass a below-need Health budget, compounded the situation. <BR /> <BR />I recall that the removal of all core grant funding was one of the options set out by the Department in the response to the 2024-25 Budget, but, thankfully, no doubt with some internal challenge, the Minister worked to avoid such a scenario, and we can be somewhat grateful for that. <BR /> <BR />Even when the core grant scheme is fully funded at £3·6 million, it is still only a small fraction of the investment that is made by core-granted voluntary and community sector organisations.”
“It has been clear for some time that the scheme needs to be reformed. That is why my party and I very much welcomed the most recent consultation a number of years ago. I think that Robin Swann, as Minister, embarked on that. Unfortunately, however, instead of the process identifying the solutions, the application process and its eventual unsuccessful outcomes only heightened the uncertainty and frustration that many of the groups that will have contacted MLAs experience. Shortly after the previous attempt to rerun the scheme fell flat — in the absence of a functioning Assembly and in light of no agreed Budget and major funding challenges — the Department, in 2023-24, deemed it necessary to reduce the core grant funding by 50%. That was a hammer blow to the sector, which, we recognised, was both financial and psychological.”
“<BR /> <BR />Of course, the historical and existing scheme is far from perfect, as it gives the same organisations the same money year after year whilst excluding others from even applying. Mr Durkan spoke about Men's Action Network, for instance, which would have been barred from even applying, given the conditions of the existing scheme. Those have led to the scheme no longer being as efficient or targeted as it should be. There is a fundamental unfairness in that. Until that is addressed and there is some recognition of the evolving nature of community and voluntary groups and the services that they offer, the scheme will remain unfair. <BR /> <BR />Again, pointing to some of Mr Durkan's comments, COVID has brought that into sharp focus. We learnt the value of our community and voluntary sector and the amount that they carry for us.”
“<BR /> <BR />The voluntary and community sector is a key partner in the delivery of many of the core Health and Social Care (HSC) strategic aims. For instance, certain sectors, such as those for young people, mental health, vulnerable families and elderly care are greatly dependent on the work and commitment of the sector and its organisations. For many years, the Department of Health has provided financial assistance via a core grant scheme to help many local voluntary organisations meet some of their costs, which, in this instance, are their central administration costs. That was a very small investment when you look at the significant return that most, if not all, of those organisations made over time.”
“Before I go into the main thrust of what I want to say, I want to speak to the Opposition across the Chamber to let them know why it was so important that we got to propose what I would call a significant, technical amendment to the motion. It is incumbent on us all to recognise the pressures that the Department of Health specifically finds itself under, and I think that we have done that in previous months and since last year. You realise that when you see the number of motions on the matter that have come to the Chamber, how often the Health Minister is here and how often he is called on to deliver better health outcomes, but, in reality, if we do not have the budget to meet that need, there is little that he and the Department can do.”