Robbie Butler
Lagan Valley · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Officials highlighted that alignment was provided through existing EU-derived arrangements and that coherence with existing regulatory frameworks was identified as a main consideration.”
“I note that the Member for Strangford agrees: she understands the value of our fisheries in those areas. There are other complexities. The Isle of Man Government have now done a bit of a circle around that island, which makes it difficult for our fishers from Portavogie, Kilkeel and Portaferry to craft and graft a living from some of the…”
“The Committee took the opportunity to question officials on several issues and highlight matters warranting scrutiny at Committee Stage but was not limited to those areas.”
“As the Minister said, they have possibly been viewed as competing demands, but they are not competing demands, because clean water is part of sustainable food production.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am glad to see language in the Bill on the sustainability of the aquaculture sector, and I want to lean in a bit on that. Aquaculture pastimes have, perhaps, been underutilised, whether they relate to the angling fraternity or other river and water users.”
“Today, I want to talk about a very talented young girl from Lisburn called Freya Terris. Freya, who is 17 years old, attends Friends' School and studies the piano under former Lisburn resident Rory Dowse. Freya is an incredibly accomplished young pianist and has performed in the Ulster Hall.”
The complete record
Every one of 2,636 lines we hold for Robbie Butler, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 44 of 53.
“There is a caveat to the use of "the other side": it is in the document, but the authors add a caveat and explain what it actually means. It continues:”
“If we are truly sincere about a shared future in Northern Ireland, legislation that legitimises discrimination cannot be OK. Another telling excerpt from the briefing paper reads:”
“The debate should not be broadened beyond the out-of-date, out-of-place and out-of-order circumstance that employment discrimination has a home in Northern Ireland because of the teachers' exemption rule. Ulster University's 'Transforming Education: Employment Mobility of Teachers and the FETO Exception' briefing paper makes the startling statement:”
“In 2013, a petition of concern was used to block an attempt by my UUP colleagues, former MLAs, to change the legislation. Multiple private Members' motions, which were tabled by former MLA colleagues such as Danny Kinahan and Sandra Overend, were debated in the Chamber. Sadly, in 2015, much like today, no Executive Minister was present to respond to the motion. That is disappointing. I recognise that the issue is as important for other Members, certainly for those on the Education Committee. Many Members have verbally committed to the change, none more so than Chris Lyttle, who is consulting on a private Member's Bill on the same topic. <BR /> <BR />We need to be clear about exactly what we will talk about today.”
“I put on record my thanks to all our teachers across Northern Ireland for their service. I thank them not only for their service throughout the pandemic but for what they do day and daily for our young people. While their role and challenge is predominantly to engage in and promote our children's academic attainment and growth, teachers are increasingly being tasked with increasingly diverse responsibilities. I and everybody else in the House have full admiration for the job that they do. Through the motion, we seek to recognise an archaic and unfair barrier to fair employment for teachers across our diverse community. <BR /> <BR />No one who reads the research information in the debate pack can ignore how important an issue this inequality has been for the Ulster Unionist Party for many years.”
“I thank the Minister for this announcement, which is timely for students who face exams next year. I want to revisit the Chair's question because I did not quite get the answer. I do not know whether I missed it; I apologise if I did. Just for clarity, where a student wants to achieve an A or an A-plus but does not want to sit all units, will that still be possible? The statement mentions generous grading. Will that be achievable for students who will not sit all the units?”
“I take the opportunity to wish my Lagan Valley colleague all the best in his leadership competition with the MP for Lagan Valley, Jeffrey Donaldson. <BR /> <BR />In your role as Agriculture Minister, you are asked every week about mental health, which is good. What are the clinical and non-clinical findings from the roll-out of the well-being and mental health programmes?”
“Therefore, this is something that I would like to see included as a Programme for Government outcome. <BR /> <BR />The Ulster Unionist Party will support the motion.”
“It is not a political thing, and it is not the former Minister's fault. However, we need to address it, and it is our job collectively to do that. <BR /> <BR />I have one final thing to say. Kellie Armstrong touched on it, and it is the impact of death. I had a private Member's Bill out for consultation, which has since closed. It is about addressing post-traumatic stress disorder in emergency responders. Reading through the findings of the consultation, one thing jumped out at me: how hard it is to deal with death. In particular, police officers responding to the consultation have written about how hard it is when they have to go to someone's door to report a death. I also think of the nurses, the doctors or the care staff who have to give that news and the impact on them.”
“<BR /> <BR />We often talk about stigmas and taboos, and cancer was one of them. When my grandparents were alive, you could not have used the word. When my grandfather was ill, we were pretty certain that he had cancer, but he would not go for tests and you could not mention the word. "Mental health" is another one. We know that, because we talk about mental health quite a lot now, but we are still breaking down the barriers and the stigma attached to it. However, death is the one that will come to us all. We may not all suffer mental ill health, cancer, heart disease or any of those things — I pray that you do not — but we will all die, as will all those we love. Therefore, there is an omission from the Programme for Government. Trevor Clarke talked about that. It is nobody's fault.”
“Therefore, the omission, if we can call it that, of end-of-life outcomes from our Programme for Government is an anomaly that needs to be addressed. It must be addressed as soon as possible. As we have said today, it is not within the purview of the Minister of Health alone. There are fiscal and financial, educational and community aspects. <BR /> <BR />I think of something that we have talked about a lot in the Chamber since we came back. We have paid tribute to a number of former Members, and that has been hard. As the Member for Lagan Valley outlined, this is not just a matter for the elderly. You have only to go to the Children's Hospice, paediatric care, the Cancer Centre or any of those places where we have young people on that palliative journey. That is incredibly tough.”
“I particularly thank the policy team at Marie Curie for providing the support for today's motion. <BR /> <BR />I have to declare an interest, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. I often blow about my wife a little. She is a nurse, but she also is a palliative care nurse. She worked for Northern Ireland Hospice, although she does not work there now. When I ask her what her favourite role as a nurse has been, she says that it was in the hospice. She epitomises the people who are called to work in those places. I used to ask why that would be. It is the most personal journey that you could ever have. Birth and death: those are the two journeys that you can go with someone on that will bring you closer than anything else. My hat goes off to those nurses. <BR /> <BR />Death will affect everyone.”
“One is to protect the dignity of the person who is dying, and the second is to support the living. Every one of us will experience death in some form or fashion, whether through managing the bereavement of someone else or when it comes to us. I hope and pray that we are in a position to do so with dignity. <BR /> <BR />I thank the palliative care community, as others have done and, I am sure, everyone else and the Minister will do. While this is missing from the Programme for Government at the moment, we are all of one voice when we say that there are professionals and volunteers out there who are providing the pathways as we speak. Whether that is in a hospital, a hospice or a community setting, our nurses, doctors, health professionals, care staff and many dozens, if not hundreds, of volunteers are absolute heroes for what they do.”
“In listening to some of the very personal testimonies today, I am mindful of the fact that a number of people listening in today across Northern Ireland will be going through that very process at the moment. In my time on the all-party groups that we all sit on, I have become aware of an excellent charity and facility that people need to be aware of: Cruse Bereavement Care. To anyone who is listening in or who wants to pass on their details, I say that it is important that they reach out for that help and know that it is there. As we know, bereavement can have a serious effect on all of us. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the motion. I thank Ms Bunting and all the other co-signatories for tabling it. It was a pleasure to sign it, for the purposes of the debate. There are more than two aspects to it, but two jump out at me.”
“The Member makes a really good point. I was one of those guys who wore a secondary school uniform. He is absolutely right about how that is viewed. I will take the geography of Wallace High School and Friends' School in Lisburn as an example of why his proposal would not fix that. Many grammar schools sit in more affluent areas. If there were a proposal, perhaps we could look at it, but there has been none. That does not fix the problem.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. On that point about social mobility, is the transfer test the problem, or is the problem, perhaps, that we are measuring success by pupils attaining five good GCSEs and A levels? For example, when I joined the Fire Service, I did not need GCSEs or A levels. Now, the entrance level for the Fire and Rescue Service is GCSEs, and I can tell you that GCSEs do not make you a better firefighter. Are we looking at the right things when we look at how we value our children and what they are good at?”
“Absolutely. I welcome the Committee Chair's intervention. To be fair to him, in the conversations that we had, he was very proactive about trying to find a solution. He is right that we have a cohort of P6 pupils who do not know what is happening. Perhaps the better and stronger debate would be to sort out what we are doing this year. <BR /> <BR />I will put on record again — I am not getting my extra minute, guys — that if there is a discussion to be had, it is about the transformation of education. If you have the answer, bring it to us. When you have the answer, we will look at it. The answer is not there yet.”
“If we are going to have a discussion about it, we need alternatives. At least I put an alternative to the Committee and to the Minister. It was not taken up. <BR /> <BR />We should not be afraid of change, but, unless the change is better and can be proven to better the lives of those children and to tackle educational underachievement, you deal with what you have got. Guess what? That is parental choice, and it is pupil choice. It is not perfect. I accept that. There might be something better that suits and that is designed by parents and pupils, but even academics do not agree on that. I engage with academics across grammar, secondary and primary schools. There is passion, but everybody has a different idea about how the process should go and what is better. I will give way to the Chair of the Committee for Education.”
“If you do not mind, I will reiterate this point on the psychological impact. Let me talk about our failure to adequately support somewhere in the region of 14,000 to 15,000 pupils who, in good conscience, went through P1 and P2 right up to P6 and P7 and entered into a process that was not facilitated in the end. I have a number of pupils, but I am thinking of one in particular. I will not name her, because I do not have permission. That young girl is in a position that I have not known any child to be in. I know that there are well-made arguments about the psychological impact on other people. I am one of those children who went through secondary school education. I failed the 11-plus. I wrote a letter to myself about a year and a half ago, and I put it out there, because I understand that.”
“I cannot say that, but I will say that I believe that, had there been political support across this House, we could have done something. It was done for GCSE and A-level pupils. I accept that there are difficulties with that, and there are well-made arguments about that. However, when you look across the educational stakeholder groups and those who feed into it, you see that perhaps there is a fundamental problem where power lies and maybe the inability of the Minister, to give him his place, possibly to act in that regard. I disagree with the answer that I got on that, but the answer may well be right.”
“It talks about the psychological harm. Let me put on record that I have constituents — pupils — who have been psychologically harmed by the fallout from the transfer debacle this year.”
“Today, we are telling them what our ideology is or what your ideology is, and we do not have pupil and parent participation. They would be the recipients of what we would do today, and we would not have designed something better than what is there. That could not be better drawn out than by the year that we have just had. I make no apologies for resting on what I learned over this past year and a bit through COVID when we had some protracted discussions and some non-discussions about what we would do for the P7s of 2021. I am going to rest today's argument on what we did with those children and the inflexibility of some people to, perhaps, courageously move to identify what should have happened for those pupils. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the report. Not one of us needs to be afraid of an academic report on trying to do things better.”
“As the education spokesperson for the Ulster Unionist Party, I put it on notice that we will not be supporting either the motion or the amendment. However, we welcome the debate. At the outset, I will say that most of the debate so far has been well intended. I do not believe that there is anyone in this Chamber who does not want the best outcome for each of our pupils in Northern Ireland, regardless of whether they are absolutely opposed to academic selection or a champion of academic selection. <BR /> <BR />I would much rather that today's debate were about the transformation of education. What does the transformation of education look like? I have some ideas, but I do not know exactly. The people who do have a good idea are the parents and the pupils out there.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. He mentioned the role for multidisciplinary teams. Does he agree with me that their inclusion, particularly with regard to mental health, in settings such as Lisburn Primary and Community Care Centre, will result in a more holistic approach and better well-being for our community?”
“Mark Smyth, the wildfire lead, Alan O'Neill, the incident commander on the ground, and Aidan Jennings, the gold commander of the incident from HQ, deserve our thanks today. <BR /> <BR />Minister, thank you for the strategic wildfire group that you have set up. Do you agree that, in fire prevention, education is perhaps our most valuable tool? If you do, in that context, what resources and purpose will you give to the education of those who own land and have the responsibility for managing it in these instances?”
“First, I thank the Minister for going to assist the Fire and Rescue Service on Saturday with his shovel. However, you were not the first MLA to have a shovel on that mountain; that accolade went to me many years ago. <BR /> <BR />With Members across the House, I reiterate and reaffirm our thanks to people like Charlie Thomson. The shops, not just in Newcastle but across Northern Ireland, provided pizzas, water and all sorts of stuff. I know that the fire service personnel were very grateful for that. I know that the Minister will agree that the management and safety of the crews on that mountain are paramount. I want to mention a number of people, if you will indulge me.”
“What analysis has the Department done on levels of sickness-related distress and on whether homeworking or remote working have improved productivity?”
“I welcome the Minister's points. I want to give the Minister the opportunity to join me in wishing our football team the very best of luck tonight as they face Ukraine and try to defend a 2-1 lead and, hopefully, do even better. <BR /> <BR />Will the Minister's proposals ban the gambling practices that are most likely to cause harm? Is she considering practices such as free bets, free spins, VIP schemes and reverse withdrawal functions?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement this morning. It is a statement of hope, but you are right, Minister, to tinge it with reality when it comes to funding. I also welcome the indication of further support to be announced in the coming days, particularly for mental health services. You are the Minister who has put mental health to the fore in everything that he does. Do you envisage that this will increase the provision of crucial counselling and talking therapy services?”
“Mr Speaker, it is a while since you have been called "Two Jabs Alex", perhaps back in your boxing days.”
“The Executive provided sign language in their response to COVID, and the value of the language was shown. If we are going to value our community and all who are part of it, I imagine that that will be a matter for the Commission to attend to. If the Member is happy, I will write to her on the issue.”
“It is great to know that I am not the only imperfect person in the Chamber, Mr Deputy Speaker. I know that the Member is an outstanding advocate for those with disabilities, particularly those with her disability. I have been with her when she has raised issues at the Business Committee and on the Commission. I give an undertaking to write to her on the subject. The Commission will take that very seriously.”
“<BR /> <BR />On the Member's specific point, Braille signage is provided in the Great Hall, while pictorial signage for toilets is provided at the entrances to the toilets on the ground floor. I am sure that the Commission will, in time, consider anything that is put to it.”
“Hansard also provides translation into and from Irish on demand, depending on capacity and when resources allow. <BR /> <BR />The Commission avails itself of a framework for the provision of interpretation, translation and transcription services for the Northern Ireland public sector. Irish is one of the languages included in that framework. It includes a range of services, such as face-to-face interpreting services, telephone interpreting services, sign language interpreting services, and translation and transcription services. <BR /> <BR />The Member may be aware that the Speaker held an event on 10 March 2021 to mark Irish Language Week. This year's event took the form of a short virtual class that focused on the Irish language in a parliamentary context and highlighted phrases that are often required in the Assembly.”
“On behalf of the Commission, it is important that I address that, and perhaps more, so that Members are aware of what the Commission has done. The Commission's Education Service currently provides online sessions for schools, including Irish-medium schools, and an education officer is available to deliver sessions in Irish. Work is also under way to update and translate sections of the Education Service's website into Irish. That work is nearing completion, and that resource will be available to Irish-medium education in the coming months. <BR /> <BR />Hansard reports Assembly proceedings in whatever language is used. If Irish is used, that is the language that is reported. In normal circumstances, simultaneous translation is provided for the Speaker and the two Clerks at Table during plenary sittings.”
“The Commission anticipates that it will have to consider and review a number of areas within its remit in the context of any legislation that is passed by the Assembly under New Decade, New Approach, or in the context of any other legislation. In addition, the Commission has indicated that it awaits the decisions of the Committee on Procedures and the Assembly on the detail on making provisions for simultaneous translation. The Commission will ensure that the required resources and changes to services are put in place.”
“<BR /> <BR />The charter obliges the United Kingdom Government to ensure, amongst other things, that administrative authorities use regional or minority languages. It should be noted that, for the purposes of the charter, neither the Assembly as a regional legislature, nor the Assembly Commission, are administrative authorities or a body acting on behalf of such an authority. No domestic national legislation incorporates the charter, and, consequently, the Assembly and the Assembly Commission do not have obligations, as a matter of domestic law, to comply with the provisions of the charter. <BR /> <BR />The Assembly Commission is, of course, mindful of the contents of the New Decade, New Approach agreement.”
“I thank the Member for her question. The European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages is an international agreement. The UK Government signed the charter in 2000 and ratified it in 2001. It is designed to protect and promote regional or minority languages as a threatened aspect of Europe’s cultural heritage. The United Kingdom Government recognised Welsh, Scottish Gaelic, Scots, Irish, Ulster Scots, Cornish and Manx Gaelic as regional or minority languages under that charter. The charter contains a non-discrimination clause concerning the use of those languages and provides for measures offering active support for their use across a range of areas, including in administrative settings.”
“Minister, this is a no-brainer. The hard work has been done. Our businesses and our people have been prepared. Work with the Finance Minister and get the scheme back up and running, please.”
“Those are sectors that young people and students overwhelmingly work in, and many have lost their jobs through the indefinite nature of furlough. The Job Start scheme can help to bring young people back into employment and give them the skills and experience that they need in a new sector whilst simultaneously improving their mental health.”
“I thank the Member for his point. By the time I read to the bottom of my speech, I probably will have given an example of that very outcome. <BR /> <BR />The postponement of Job Start will encourage 16- to 24-year-olds to move to other parts of the UK, where they will be able to access support to enter employment. That does not help our economy, as we know. We are globally competitive now, and our approach needs to be collegiate. It was envisaged in the PFG draft outcomes framework, in fact. Just this week, a local business contacted me to say that, following the withdrawal of the scheme, it was transferring all its paid internships to GB because Kickstart is available there. That is the point that the Member was making. <BR /> <BR />COVID restrictions have disproportionately affected hospitality and retail.”
“It would offer hundreds of opportunities if we were to get an announcement today when previously there was none. It would also show that our Executive take young people's employment seriously. This nonsensical decision to postpone or cancel Job Start has had an immediate short-term impact on those many local businesses seeking to avail of the scheme. Worse still, it is a terrible blow to the thousands of young people I have spoken of who were banking on those paid internships. <BR /> <BR />There are several negative outcomes for our young people and the Northern Ireland economy. Even more worrying are the medium and long-term impacts of abandoning Job Start. As has already been said, it will be exacerbated by the brain drain, which has been a significant hindrance to our economy in Northern Ireland for decades.”
“How then, after months of delay, promises made and hopes raised, is the scheme now not going ahead? It is simply not acceptable. The Minister may blame lack of funding, but how could that possibly be the case? Perhaps, in her response, the Minister can outline the amount that Northern Ireland has received in Barnett consequentials flowing from the Kickstart scheme and the cost to deliver Job Start in comparison. <BR /> <BR />Job Start would not deliver a silver bullet to resolve the lack of desirable employment opportunities for young people. I think particularly of the Member for Foyle referring to suitable apprenticeships, which I am a full champion of, having been an apprentice butcher for many years and really enjoying that role. I know that it does a lot for people and that there are other discussions that we need to have.”
“How can it possibly be then that a scheme designed with that sole purpose in mind has been binned, leaving thousands of young people and businesses on a cliff edge because of the actions of, perhaps, the Communities Minister and, perhaps, the Finance Minister? <BR /> <BR />We have heard from Members about the process that leads us to this point. The delays in getting the Job Start scheme off the ground in the first place were regrettable and led to pressure being put on businesses and young people looking to avail themselves of the scheme. Those delays could at least be explained by a desire to make the scheme a bespoke, Northern Ireland version. In fact, businesses said exactly that: they would happily wait if it meant that the scheme was fit for purpose.”
“That impact was recognised by the United Kingdom Government when the Kickstart programme was launched. The scheme provides employer subsidies for the creation of new jobs and employment opportunities for 16- to 24-year-olds. The Department for Communities announced a similar programme in Northern Ireland, Job Start, which would commence on 30 November. Unfortunately, the scheme was delayed until 14 December, and, subsequently, postponed, I think due to budget constraints. <BR /> <BR />Sinn Féin, to be fair, rightly talks about the need to grow the skills sector in Northern Ireland. It regularly talks about the need to support our young people and to get them into desirable employment.”
“I truly hope that, on the back of what will surely be a unanimous vote in favour of the motion, we will see the Communities Minister and the Finance Minister move at the speed of light to restart the Job Start scheme and, as was said, perhaps call it something different. <BR /> <BR />Young people have been among the worst affected by the COVID pandemic and lockdown restrictions due to the effects that they have had on their employment opportunities, personal and professional development, and mental health. Members from Foyle spoke about the lack of hope. I have sat on APGs in and around mental health, so I know how important it is for young people in their areas to receive messages of hope. I hope, for all of our sakes, that we get to hear some of that this evening.”
“We will support the motion, and I thank the proposers for tabling it. I acknowledge the ongoing work of my colleague John Stewart in particular in highlighting the issues in his role as the UUP economy spokesperson and as the chair of the APG on micro and small businesses. <BR /> <BR />It is sad and deeply concerning that we have to debate this motion. There are many things that parties across the Chamber will disagree on, as we heard today, but I never thought that implementing a scheme to support our young people into employment and assist our businesses to grow would be one of them.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I do not know if the Member was listening to 'Good Morning Ulster' this morning, but there was an eminent lecturer who was outlining the impact of the COVID restrictions on the different sectors of the community. What the report indicated was that those most disproportionately affected are young people. As the Member alluded to, one of the reasons is a lack of employment opportunities. Does the Member agree that our attention should be focused on that?”
“Will the First Minister give a commitment that the Executive Office, along with the Education Minister, will look at making our children a priority on their return to school? I take the opportunity to wish everybody a happy St Patrick's Day.”
“I thank the First Minister for her address. I also thank her for linking hope with Easter. It is important that we send out a message of hope. I am sure that there are many parents, carers and teachers who are looking forward, as we all are, to their pupils, students and children returning to school very soon. <BR /> <BR />The Minister will be well aware that there was an inflexibility this year with the transfer test and that some children were left to suffer. There have been many professional calls for the need for children to emotionally regulate before we educate. We now seem to be seeing a lack of agility with GCSE and A-level exams, with returning students facing the immediate threat of having to sit stressful exams. We know that children have been hard hit during the pandemic.”