Robbie Butler
Lagan Valley · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Officials highlighted that alignment was provided through existing EU-derived arrangements and that coherence with existing regulatory frameworks was identified as a main consideration.”
“I note that the Member for Strangford agrees: she understands the value of our fisheries in those areas. There are other complexities. The Isle of Man Government have now done a bit of a circle around that island, which makes it difficult for our fishers from Portavogie, Kilkeel and Portaferry to craft and graft a living from some of the…”
“The Committee took the opportunity to question officials on several issues and highlight matters warranting scrutiny at Committee Stage but was not limited to those areas.”
“As the Minister said, they have possibly been viewed as competing demands, but they are not competing demands, because clean water is part of sustainable food production.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am glad to see language in the Bill on the sustainability of the aquaculture sector, and I want to lean in a bit on that. Aquaculture pastimes have, perhaps, been underutilised, whether they relate to the angling fraternity or other river and water users.”
“Today, I want to talk about a very talented young girl from Lisburn called Freya Terris. Freya, who is 17 years old, attends Friends' School and studies the piano under former Lisburn resident Rory Dowse. Freya is an incredibly accomplished young pianist and has performed in the Ulster Hall.”
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“Our farmers and our agri-industry deserve the tools that they need to maintain the highest standards of animal welfare and public health. Our agri-food industry, a pillar of our economy, must not be hampered by bureaucratic hurdles that can be overcome with clear, proactive negotiation and cooperation. <BR /> <BR />I turn very briefly to Members' comments, and please do not be annoyed if I do not give you a wee shout-out, guys. I credit my party colleague Tom Elliott, who put the motion together. Tom really should have declared his interest as a farmer, so I will do that for him, if that is OK. He set up a good motion today, and it is good to see the cross-party support for it. William Irwin declared his own interest and spoke to the amendment and the need to put meat on the bones.”
“The Sub-Committee's inquiry underscores the necessity for proactive measures to ensure the continuous supply of veterinary medicines that mitigate the risk of disease outbreaks and safeguard public health. In light of these concerns, the motion calls on the Minister of Agriculture to give voice and advocacy, and I give credit to Minister Muir in that he is already committed to doing so. That message must be taken to the European Union and, indeed, the Government in London. I hazard that we should not delay to wait on a Labour Government. Whilst that may be the outworking, we do not want to waste any time, and I know that the Minister will not do that. Therefore, it is imperative that we secure a positive resolution to ensure the continuous supply of veterinary medicines to Northern Ireland.”
“There is a clear need for more tailored and region-specific solutions that recognise the unique challenges faced by Northern Ireland. On that point, I will reminisce again about my days as a butcher and take Members back to another moment that I remember: the first introduction and influx of Brazilian beef. The difference between what the offering is here and what we have accepted from other regions is marked. We really do need to face into protecting the quality product that we have, which is underpinned by access to the best medications that are recognised by both jurisdictions.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I agree with that, because it speaks to the very interconnectedness that I referenced. I will go slightly further and perhaps, through the Chair, speak directly to the Minister on this point: we have had a democratic deficit due to the outcomes of Brexit, which has meant that we have not had a voice. The mess that we are in is probably because we have not had that voice, through the Conservative Government, at the EU. This issue offers us a chance, however, and the Minister, to his credit, has said that he will offer solutions. I agree with the Member that it is time-critical and that we need to address it with haste. <BR /> <BR />The Sub-Committee further noted that the current regulatory framework under the Windsor framework does not adequately address the issues.”
“When we fail to control diseases in animals, we potentially open the door to zoonotic diseases, which can have catastrophic consequences for human health. I was a butcher at the time of CJD and mad cow disease, and I remember the fear that that instilled not just across businesses but in our public. The interconnectedness of animal health, food safety and public health underscores the critical need for reliable access to veterinary medicines.”
“The Sub-Committee also emphasised the critical role of veterinary medicines in maintaining high animal welfare standards. That is critical for Northern Ireland's position in regard to its offering. <BR /> <BR />Without those essential products, our farmers are unable to manage and treat diseases effectively. That leads to unnecessary suffering by our animals. We are an animal welfare-facing Assembly, and we are animal welfare-facing people here in Northern Ireland. It is not just an ethical issue but one that affects our global reputation and our marketability. Moreover, its implications extend beyond individual farms and animals. Public health, which a number of Members spoke about, is intrinsically linked to animal health.”
“That vulnerability can lead to devastating disease outbreaks, causing immense economic losses and undermining the tireless efforts of our farming community. Mr Buchanan mentioned the mental health and welfare of our farmers, and they have been under pressure for many years. The Minister and I spoke about that last week, and I know that it is a priority. That is impacted when there is pressure on veterinary medicines. <BR /> <BR />The Sub-Committee that we are talking about has highlighted the fact that the current situation creates an environment in which Northern Ireland is at a competitive disadvantage compared with other regions. That disparity could result in increased costs and operational challenges for our farmers, who are already working under challenging conditions.”
“That is a staggering figure, and it poses a significant threat to our agriculture sector, which is the lifeblood of our economy. The Minister has recognised that and, to his credit, given firm commitments. I know that many in the agriculture sector are grateful for that. <BR /> <BR />Veterinary medicines are not merely products that sit on a shelf but essential tools that ensure the health and productivity of our livestock. They support our farmers and safeguard our food supply chain. The absence of adequate access to those medicines jeopardises our competitiveness on a number of levels. Northern Ireland's produce is not like that of anywhere else in the world. Without the necessary veterinary products, our ability to prevent and treat illnesses in animals is severely compromised.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am not declaring an interest per se, but I have a huge interest in the issue from a busman's perspective. For many years, I was a butcher in a number of shops in Lisburn. One of the things that I enjoyed about that job, apart from serving the fine customers of Lagan Valley and further afield, was the fact that I knew that the produce that I was working with, whether it was beef, lamb, pork or poultry, was world class and top quality. That does not happen by accident but through decades of hard work by our farm workers and producers, who ensure the integrity of the products that Northern Ireland is famous for. That is why the motion is about slightly more than just what is happening in the political moment. <BR /> <BR />As a number of Members have pointed, up to 51% of our veterinary products in Northern Ireland are at risk.”
“I will savour it, because I am sure that, over the next couple of years, we will lock horns on many issues. That is the truth: we will lock horns on many issues, but it is really good to have a moment in the Chamber where, during the response from the Minister, we saw great crossovers and a recognition of the pressures that are being faced by veterinary practitioners, medicine providers, farmers and the agri-food industry. There seems to have been a cross-party realisation of the moment that we find ourselves in. We can smile about it and have a bit of fun, but this is a critical issue. To neglect the seriousness of the motion would be to fail to recognise that the very foundations of our agri-food industry could be seriously affected and, possibly, crumble.”
“I hope that you will not take those five seconds off my time, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am lucky that it was not my phone. I will just make sure that mine is on silent. <BR /> <BR />Before I begin, I want to recognise something that happened in the Chamber in relation to the motion. We saw a rare moment of genuine cross-party cooperation between the Members for Upper Bann. I know that I am a nice, touchy-feely sort of politician who loves to see a genuine reaching across, but I enjoyed that exchange between Eóin Tennyson and Jonny Buckley. They not only agreed on the matter but smiled at each other. It was a remarkable moment, and I wanted to recognise that.”
“One of the pressures is that any new build is much too expensive. There is a loss of skills, which the Minister will know. I just want to get an undertaking from him that he understands the value of the thatched properties that we have and the fact that they are disappearing at an alarming rate. Would the Minister like to give that commitment today?”
“People with a disability face challenges with accessibility. Last week, the Minister announced the intermediate-rent scheme. How many of the 300 properties that he mentioned last week have been assessed for disability access and will be available to people with a disability?”
“I think that the answer to that question is that there have been no talks at this point. If there are no markings on the road, it is for the police to uphold that. It is a serious public safety issue. Given the impact on people with prams and the disabled, will the Minister give an undertaking to address the issue with the Minister for Infrastructure?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. It is a good statement. I do not profess to be an expert in all things agriculture, but I am the mental health spokesperson for the Ulster Unionist Party. Since 2016, in any debate that we have had in the Chamber on mental health and well-being, farmers and their families have been mentioned as being well up the list of those who are suffering. I know that the Minister supports those families and has warmth and affection for them. Will the Minister outline whether there is a template in the programme and policy changes that looks at the impact on the mental health and well-being of farmers and their families? How will they will be assisted when those things are rolled out?”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I will get on here, guys. <BR /> <BR />The amendment is genuinely meant to be helpful. As I said to the Minister, the scope of the governance piece is inclusive of academic experts, the wider public and civil society. I will move on now. <BR /> <BR />Michelle McIlveen pointed out the need for funding and resources, which will be absolutely crucial if we are to see a marked difference. Moreover, by explicitly including the exploration of potential enhancements to our environmental governance, we demonstrate a willingness to innovate and adapt in the face of evolving challenges. That is key. It could involve considerations such as greater transparency and public participation, which is my main point, stronger regulatory enforcement mechanisms and enhanced coordination.”
“I hope to give the Member confidence through my answer. It is a brief amendment, and the understanding of it was to try to be helpful. I am not saying that the review that has taken place was narrow, but I am speaking about a wider consultation process. We are talking about what would happen if we were legislating.”
“Such a review would also allow us to assess the effectiveness of the current regularity, no, regulatory mechanisms — I have someone else's teeth in today — identify gaps in enforcement and explore best practice from other jurisdictions. A number of Members referred to that. Furthermore, it would provide an opportunity to engage stakeholders from other sectors and, importantly, to involve civil society organisations, the public, industry representatives and academic experts. Their insights and expertise —.”
“We need to take a holistic approach, one that scrutinises our existing governance structures, identifies their shortcomings and explores avenues for improvement. We all need to be involved in that, however; it should not be just within a single Department's purview. The environment belongs to us all, and, as the Minister pointed out, this is a cross-departmental exercise. <BR /> <BR />Linda Dillon spoke about being parochial. She is not here, but that was an excellent message. If every one of us in Northern Ireland were parochial about the environment, we could all play our part and could all make a difference. By incorporating a review of environmental governance into the motion, we signalled our commitment not only to address the symptoms but to diagnose the root causes of environmental degradation.”
“Contrary to what was in some Members' comments, we see the value of and need for an independent environmental protection agency. However, we simply seek to ensure that, in the scrutiny, construction and delivery of such a body, it is clearly focused and resourced, has the requisite support and powers and that that is well known across the gamut of stakeholders that will be involved. <BR /> <BR />Mr Patsy McGlone moved the motion, and it was certainly worthy of debate. As he accurately orated, we have debated the motion many times over many years. Whilst the establishment of an independent environmental protection agency would be a commendable step, we must acknowledge that it alone may not suffice in tackling the multifaceted challenges posed by the ecological and biodiversity crisis in which we find ourselves.”
“I welcome the Minister's response and recognise what he has done, but the adoption of our amendment will offer a level of scrutiny to the Chamber as to what the review that he has carried out will amount to and of where the powers will reside in those agencies that have been reviewed.”
“Before I start, I welcome Andrew McMurray, who made his maiden speech today. Andrew, I was going to say that you have big boots to fill, but you have big, long legs to follow in former MLA Paddy Brown, so I wish you good luck, and I enjoyed your speech. <BR /> <BR />Forgive me for not including more contributions, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. Declan McAleer spoke too fast for me to write anything down, but I know that he made really good points. I thought that I spoke fast: my goodness, they are even better west of the Bann. <BR /> <BR />Members, an opportunity lies before us not just to address the immediate crisis at hand but to enact systemic changes that could fortify our environmental governance for years to come. I am advocating for the amendment, which was moved by my colleague Tom Elliott.”
“<BR /> <BR />In conclusion, as Northern Ireland and its people reflect on the restoration of the devolved institutions, the Executive must confront the formidable challenges that lie ahead with resolve and determination. By delivering a focused Programme for Government that is rooted in an ethos of well-being and prosperity, addressing pressing issues such as health funding, educational inequalities, poverty, disability disparities, environmental sustainability and social housing, the Executive can chart a course towards a brighter and more inclusive future for all.”
“<BR /> <BR />One critical area where the Executive have faltered is in ensuring that the social housing stock and its quality meet the burgeoning demand. The failure to adequately address that issue has left many families languishing in inadequate or unaffordable housing, exacerbating issues of homelessness, poverty and social inclusion. I am sure that those of you who were listening to the radio this morning will have heard testimony to that. It is imperative that the Executive redouble their efforts to expand and improve the social housing inventory, ensuring that it meets the needs of all citizens and contributes to the well-being and prosperity of Northern Ireland as a whole.”
“I know that we have a compressed mandate with, maybe, only two years left, but it would be remiss of us not to ensure that those things are included. <BR /> <BR />Amidst those challenges, the Executive's foremost task is the formulation and execution of a focused Programme for Government that recognises the compressed mandate. Such a programme should espouse an overarching ethos of well-being and prosperity across every priority and outcome. It must not only identify key objectives but delineate concrete strategies and allocate resources judiciously. Every policy initiative and decision must be scrutinised through a lens of fostering well-being and prosperity for all the citizens of Northern Ireland.”
“The Executive's duty is to dismantle those barriers and cultivate a society in which every individual can participate fully and equitably. I know that we have had motions and that we are taking measures, but I believe that we need a printed, agreed Programme for Government to achieve that. <BR /> <BR />Furthermore, environmental failures, exemplified by the Lough Neagh algal bloom catastrophe, underscore the pressing need for environmental stewardship and sustainable development. The Executive must take decisive steps to mitigate pollution, safeguard natural habitats and advocate sustainable practices across all domains. Therefore, investing in renewable energy, conservation endeavours and environmental education is pivotal in safeguarding present and future generations.”
“The Executive must prioritise policies and initiatives that are aimed at lifting families out of destitution and furnish them with the support and resource that is requisite for flourishing. Addressing the root causes of poverty, encompassing access to affordable housing, employment opportunities and robust social support systems, is indispensable for fostering a more equitable society, which I believe a Programme for Government should be at the core of. <BR /> <BR />Disability inequalities represent another poignant challenge that warrants immediate attention. Persons with disabilities are confronted by obstacles to employment, education, healthcare and societal inclusion that perpetuate cycles of disadvantage and exclusion.”
“Our communities deserve access to high-quality healthcare, education, infrastructure and all other essential services. The crisis in health funding and educational inequalities has been exacerbated by the pandemic, stop-start politics and systemic issues that demand immediate address. Waiting times for critical procedures, overstretched staff and under-resourced facilities in healthcare, alongside disparities in educational outcomes, which are rooted in socio-economic difference, are the hurdles that the Executive and the Assembly must not overlook. <BR /> <BR />The spectre of crippling poverty, especially child poverty, looms large over Northern Ireland's future.”
“The reinstatement of the devolved institutions in Northern Ireland was a significant achievement that marked a critical moment in this region's journey towards stability and progress. As the Assembly commemorates the first 100 days since that milestone, it is imperative that we acknowledge the strides that we have made, many of which were recognised by the Members who have spoken so far. We are, however, operating in a financial landscape that confronts the Executive at every turn. That is a formidable challenge, particularly because it straddles every sector. <BR /> <BR />Acknowledging the underfunding of public services in Northern Ireland is not merely an observation; it is a clarion call for action, which is, I believe, also contained in the motion.”
“I hope that you will indulge this question, Minister. We have a very special visitor in the Chamber who, hopefully, is listening up above. She is a pupil from St Genevieve's school in Belfast called Aurelia. Will the Minister commit even 10 minutes after Question Time and after he finishes the subsequent debate to meet her to discuss SEN issues? She is a lovely pupil, and I think that the Minister would enjoy meeting her.”
“Special schools are treated differently. Is that something at which the Minister is prepared to look?”
“I thank the Minister for his very welcome statement. From briefly reading through it, I have one or two concerns for the Minister to address. The first is to accept and welcome the impetus for SPiMS. Hopefully, there will be an impact in September that will see many of our pupils with special educational needs receive their school place at the same time as children who do not have special educational needs. The Minister made the comment that he has listened to school leaders and parents. Will he therefore outline to the House whether those children will receive their school place at the same time as other pupils? Secondly, in every interview that I have had with principals of special schools, I hear that they are still at odds with the Department and the EA over how they do not have control of their funding.”
“The second part was how robust and detailed will the information be to ensure that cars are roadworthy?”
“My question picks up on that last point, and perhaps it is difficult to answer. The risk is very much transferred to the road user. Whilst the statement is welcome, how robust will the guidance be on maintaining vehicles so that people understand fully what checks they should carry out to mitigate that risk as much as possible?”
“I appreciate the Member giving way. I will say this as briefly as I can. It is a really important point that is niggling me. We know the importance of skin-to-skin contact, for instance, for mums and babies. As a society, and I am not targeting anybody, we have gone from these blinking things — mobile phones — and we now have screen-to-skin contact. I am seriously concerned about the problem that we are building up for our young people, in particular, who are sometimes more interested in getting followers than friends. Does the Member agree that the societal approach and the prevention need to be targeted at young people too?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. In the previous mandate, it was recognised in the Final Stage debate on the provision of period products that a cross-departmental strategy would sit much better with TEO, as it has oversight. Given the burden on Health, many have agreed that the loneliness strategy was similar in that way. It is not a health issue; it becomes a health issue when we do not address it up front. This is more of a preventative strategy. If we wait until people are lonely, we will have failed.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He raises a really good point: we are an ageing population. We are also growing older with more comorbidities and greater difficulties, which build into the reality of developing issues such as loneliness.”
“Rather, it is a societal challenge that requires collective action. By working together across sectors and communities, we can create a Northern Ireland in which nobody feels alone or isolated, in which every individual is supported and connected and in which our communities thrive. <BR /> <BR />I again put on record that, although this is an Ulster Unionist motion, it is really a collective motion from two all-party groups. We in the UUP gave up our slot in order to table it. I thank my colleague Claire Sugden, who is the chair of the all-party group on ageing and older people and who will make the winding-up speech on the motion. I look forward to Members' contributions.”
“I absolutely do. In paying tribute to Sinéad, I will pay tribute to you. I find you to be one of the most compassionate and empathetic individuals in this Chamber — one of — and I am not surprised to see you here. On Sinéad's contribution, she was absolutely wedded to this issue and asked me to take the baton on when she stepped down. Her heart for the issue laid the foundations for this debate, so I thank you for that, and I do agree with you about conversations one at a time. Let us knock the barriers down and create something that is effective but will be a game changer in Northern Ireland for all our communities. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, Mr Speaker — I have elevated you to the position of Mr Speaker because I cannot get the "Deputy" bit out — loneliness is not an inevitable part of ageing or a personal failing.”
“Finally, we must establish a cross-sector loneliness implementation group to drive forward these recommendations and ensure that they are implemented effectively across Northern Ireland.”
“<BR /> <BR />I recognise the efforts of some councils that are trailblazing in this area. Additionally, we must recognise the unique challenges faced by unpaid carers, who often experience as a significant consequence of their caregiving responsibilities. We must provide them with the support that they need to maintain social connections and prevent isolation. Furthermore, we must empower general practitioners to address loneliness as a public health concern, recognising that it can be as detrimental to health as a chronic long-term condition. GPs play a crucial role in identifying and supporting lonely individuals, focusing on not just physical symptoms but emotional well-being, taking a holistic view.”
“I am not going to do them all, but they include the need to develop and implement a Northern Ireland loneliness strategy, embedded in the Programme for Government, that commits resources and has a clear time frame for delivery. The strategy must prioritise supporting opportunities for people to connect, invest in infrastructure to increase social connections and ensure age-friendly provision of local services. Also, it needs to prioritise loneliness in the health and social care system by embedding a cross-sectoral loneliness policy framework and providing training for front-line staff to identify and support those affected by loneliness. That includes investing in befriending and companionship services for those at greater risk, such as people with disabilities and terminal illnesses, and caregivers.”
“It includes the risk of developing conditions such as heart disease and depression and it exacerbates existing health issues, particularly among those with terminal illnesses and, as we have spoken about, caregivers. Despite the gravity of the situation, however, Northern Ireland lags behind the rest of the UK in addressing loneliness. We are the only part of the UK without a loneliness strategy, and that must change. We need a comprehensive, cross-departmental approach that brings together all sectors of society to tackle this issue head on. <BR /> <BR />The action group on loneliness policy, which I mentioned, outlined several recommendations to address loneliness across all age groups.”
“A third of disabled people are limited to having under an hour of interaction with someone else each day, and over two thirds of disabled people now say that social isolation is affecting their mental health and well-being, with two in five reporting an impact on their physical health. That has led to the majority of disabled people believing that the Government should prioritise tackling mental health and issues including loneliness over every other pressure. <BR /> <BR />Loneliness is not just a personal burden, however. It is a public health crisis, and research has shown that chronic loneliness can have detrimental effects on physical and mental health comparable with obesity, physical inactivity, air pollution and other issues.”
“The causes of loneliness in older people are multifaceted. They include transitions such as moving house or going into residential care, bereavement, loss of sensory abilities such as hearing or vision, financial stress due to retirement, and various structural issues such as a lack of access to transportation, community services and, in some instances, even technology. <BR /> <BR />Our disabled citizens are far too often an afterthought, and that must change. A recent report stated that more than a third of disabled people said that they were chronically lonely before the pandemic, and that rose to one in two, or 54%, for 16- to 24-year-olds. A lot of people think that loneliness is the purview of just those who age. It is not; it is across all age groups.”
“As they neglect their own hobbies and interests, their focus is largely on the person whom they care for.”
“Recent statistics paint a stark picture. In 2022-23, nearly one fifth of the population in Northern Ireland reported feeling lonely at least some of the time. That equates to approximately 361,000 individuals, and what is more troubling is that loneliness was on the rise even before the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic. That only exacerbated the feelings of isolation and disconnection, especially among vulnerable groups such as carers, people with disabilities and those with terminal illnesses. For carers, in particular, loneliness can be caused by a range of circumstances, many of them outside an individual carer's control. For many, the intensity of caring can be so demanding that they are left with little time or energy to see friends or family.”
“We also need to be clear that there is a difference between loneliness and being alone. It can absolutely be the case that someone can be perfectly happy being alone but can also be lonely even in a group of people. I have listened to a lot of podcasts and done a lot of reading, and I was reflecting on Robin Williams, who entertained tens of millions of us. He was one of the funniest actors ever to go on the stage and be in films. For Robin Williams, even in a crowd of however many people, the adoration meant nothing to him, because he was one of the loneliest people ever. He was brave in discussing and sharing that with us. <BR /> <BR />I have a quotation that is worth sharing. I read these quotes every day. It is:”
“Her answer was revealing: "Robbie, I don't come in here to buy the meat every day. I come in for a chat". We got a conversation going, and it turned out that that lady lived on her own. She was from Omagh but had moved to Lisburn, and she had no extended family. She had purpose in her day, and her purpose was to go and meet people and have a conversation about the things that mattered to her. It was not that it was Robbie; it did not matter if it was Gerald, whom I worked for. Her purpose in the day was to meet and speak to people. That is why I am particularly interested in the topic. <BR /> <BR />Loneliness is not merely a fleeting emotion; it is a pervasive reality for far too many individuals. It has consequences that ripple through our society, through our health system and through our collective well-being.”
“However, my starting point today is to reflect on why loneliness is of interest to me and on some of my experiences. I will take you back to a story that some of you will have heard before. About 35 years ago, as an apprentice butcher in Lisburn, I worked six days a week and served thousands of people across the counter. An elderly lady used to come into the shop at Knockmore every day, and she bought her meat, fish, cooked meats and other bits and pieces from me. As a helpful young butcher, I thought that I would help her. I found out on which day she got her pension, and, the next day she was in, I asked her whether it would help her if I was able to put everything together on a Monday, nice and fresh, wrap it up for her to freeze, and she could just pay for it.”