Robbie Butler
Lagan Valley · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Officials highlighted that alignment was provided through existing EU-derived arrangements and that coherence with existing regulatory frameworks was identified as a main consideration.”
“I note that the Member for Strangford agrees: she understands the value of our fisheries in those areas. There are other complexities. The Isle of Man Government have now done a bit of a circle around that island, which makes it difficult for our fishers from Portavogie, Kilkeel and Portaferry to craft and graft a living from some of the…”
“The Committee took the opportunity to question officials on several issues and highlight matters warranting scrutiny at Committee Stage but was not limited to those areas.”
“As the Minister said, they have possibly been viewed as competing demands, but they are not competing demands, because clean water is part of sustainable food production.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am glad to see language in the Bill on the sustainability of the aquaculture sector, and I want to lean in a bit on that. Aquaculture pastimes have, perhaps, been underutilised, whether they relate to the angling fraternity or other river and water users.”
“Today, I want to talk about a very talented young girl from Lisburn called Freya Terris. Freya, who is 17 years old, attends Friends' School and studies the piano under former Lisburn resident Rory Dowse. Freya is an incredibly accomplished young pianist and has performed in the Ulster Hall.”
The complete record
Every one of 2,636 lines we hold for Robbie Butler, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 35 of 53.
“Some absolutely do, it would be fair to say and to put people on notice that the people who will take strike action tomorrow, who will see their pay cut and who are struggling to make ends meet — some of them have to visit food banks and come to our offices for assistance — will ask two questions and will ask them in perpetuity: "Why am I doing it?" and "Who is responsible?". Those annual pension statements that they will get year on year will reinforce those thoughts that they have. I ask the party to my right to consider what I have said and the abiding impact of the strike action on those people not just tomorrow but in the future, when they get their annual pension statements, think back and ask "Why did I strike?" and "Who was responsible?".”
“In my opinion, the blockage lies with a small number of DUP MPs and Lords who are far removed from the impact on public services and lives here, the impact that their veto is having on people across Northern Ireland and, I would say, on the respect that unionism should seek to hold. Why do I say that those people are far removed from the impact of their veto? Well, I am not sure whether you saw the pre-Christmas news that was lauded around. Eight members of the party beside me may have celebrated that news, which was that there may be a 7·1% pay rise for MPs in April, which would see their pay rise from around £86,000 to £92,000 a year. <BR /> <BR />It would be wrong and churlish of me and a lie to suggest that some MPs do not deserve their pay.”
“The blame for the impact of the strike — I will not mince my words, because I may not get a chance to speak in the Chamber again, and I should have declared an interest, because my daughter and wife will take action tomorrow — lies squarely with the party to my right, the DUP. <BR /> <BR />I always strive to be fair and balanced, and I do not think that anybody in the DUP would deny me that. It is only fair, therefore, that I also state that I do not think that the blame lies squarely with every member of that party; in fact, it lies less so with the MLAs. If I were a betting man, I would wager that most of the people to my right have not even seen the deal that is on offer and has been negotiated. Those negotiations have finished.”
“The people who take action tomorrow will lose pay, as I did in 2002, and will similarly get an annual pension statement that will reflect a breakage in service for every day that they have to take strike action. <BR /> <BR />In February 2022, the DUP pulled down the institutions by removing the then First Minister, Mr Paul Givan. By doing so, it also removed the normal and reasonable ability of the representative bodies to seek fair pay and negotiate fairly for public-sector workers, whether that is with a Minister, a Department or whomever it is that they would lobby. Whilst we have consistently, from the start, asked the Secretary of State to decouple the issues of public pay and further finances, my party and I do not blame the Secretary of State for the position that we are in today; rather, it is due to two years of political veto.”
“I have a break in my pension service. When people take strike action, they do not take it lightly. It costs them more than people think it costs them. We would do well to listen to that. When I get my annual pension statement, I think "Why did it happen?" and "Who caused it?". <BR /> <BR />Tomorrow, around 150,000 to 160,000 public servants will take action on an epic scale. The impact of that will be felt not only by those individuals but by their families and by every one of us. In fact, the 1·9 million people who live in Northern Ireland will feel that same pain tomorrow through loss of service, extension of waiting lists and children not being in school.”
“<BR /> <BR />One of the abiding memories of that is looking at the loss in pay at the end of the month for the days that were missed, which was five or six days in my case, but, more importantly, on my annual pension statement, which I still get to this day, I see those same five or six days that I lost. I lost my own contribution, and I lost my employer's contribution.”
“I also put on record my deep regret at the loss of David Hilditch. He was an MLA from the DUP whom I enjoyed working with. We shared a passion for speaking about firefighters, and David brought a motion on cancer among firefighters. To the DUP Members to my right and to his family we extend our deepest condolences. <BR /> <BR />That rather neatly also brings me to my first point. In 2002, as a firefighter, I was balloted for strike action. I had just started in the service, and the union was negotiating for us. As firefighters at the sharp end of public service and protection, we had to take the difficult decision to say that, yes, we would take strike action. That was in 2002 for fair pay and conditions.”
“The decisions by the DUP and their partner in the TUV will not be made in the Chamber. To my right, there is nobody with the authority to influence the DUP in that regard. The leader is not here, and those who are speaking to him are not here. I urge you not to repeat the sins of the past, because that trauma will be measured in years to come, guys. I want you to re-evaluate for the sake of unionism.”
“I will not take any interventions, Mr Allister, and I mean that most kindly and appropriately. <BR /> <BR />There are deep fissures in the Chamber, and one of them emerged today when I asked the Member from West Belfast to take an intervention. The reason given for not taking the intervention was that I was not able to ask in Irish. As someone whom many would describe as a moderate unionist and as someone who tabled an amendment to a Bill with regard to translation, I am deeply disappointed. I will not labour on it too much because it is not the most important thing today, but, on the day that the Irish language Act gets Royal Assent, to be treated like that in the Chamber makes me genuinely grieve for the future of this place. <BR /> <BR />I will end with this.”
“I urge unionists to hold themselves to a higher station and understand that, yes, the constitution is important, but the constitution will be won on seats in the Chamber and political representation. The political representation will come from people believing that you represent them at the moment that they are in and on the things that matter to them. I fear, at the moment, with the pressures on families, like the lady who messaged me yesterday —”
“I suspect that, in years to come, we will look back on those three years and will be able to pinpoint the effect that that had on people's lives in Northern Ireland, whether it was the failure to deliver Bengoa or have it running at the speed at which it should have been; whether it was the failure to deliver the transformation of business opportunities; or whether it was the failure to speak about the impact of Brexit. We did not have that. We run the risk of doing the same again. My colleagues to the right of me need to take that into consideration, as does my colleague to the left Mr Allister.”
“He talked about the hypocrisy that has been exposed in the Chamber today. Hypocrisy has been exposed in the Chamber, particularly of the party opposite. Obviously, the Chamber was held out for three years. Some will debate the rationale and the reasons for that. I speak on mental health and suicide prevention all the time, so I know that, when you inflict trauma on anyone, the lasting effects of that trauma go on for years. In fact, some of those things do not emerge until many months or years later.”
“I will not say how many children she has because that would identify her. She has a large family. She approached me for food vouchers, and I was able to direct her to the local food bank. That, in itself, was sad enough. This lady tries to work hard to provide for her family. Shortly after that, the lady got the courage to message me to ask whether I knew anybody who could or would help with fuel because she was down to the fumes in her oil tank and would not get paid until 16 December. I directed her to some agencies that I am aware of that may or may not be able to provide help. <BR /> <BR />I have listened to much of the debate. The Member for North Down spoke well. Some of the points that he made were reasonably good, but they were not fully accurate if you were to take what he was saying right to the end.”
“It does not look like I will be speaking Irish today, Mr Frew. <BR /> <BR />I was not going to speak today, but my heart is literally thumping. It is thumping with a myriad of emotions. The first is about the reason that we are here to debate, and that is the state that Northern Ireland is in, the country that I love dearly and deeply and for which I gave up the job that I did to come here to represent as a proud unionist. I put any unionist in the Chamber on warning not to challenge me on the depth of my commitment to unionism, the Union and the United Kingdom. Do not dare do that. Do not chunter and reduce any unionist's desire and passion on the constitutional issue. <BR /> <BR />Yesterday, I got a message from a lady whom I know. She works, and her husband does not. This lady has quite a number of children.”
“On a point of order, Mr Acting Speaker. In the last Assembly debate, there was an incredible amount of chuntering and bickering going on in the Chamber, and I could not hear what the Member speaking was saying. The chuntering then was coming from one side of the Chamber. Today, it is coming from the other side of the Chamber. It is not appropriate, especially given what the debate is about today and the pressures on the general public in Northern Ireland. Will you make a ruling that the chuntering be kept to a minimum, regardless of where it comes from, to allow Members to make their points?”
“On a point of order, Mr Acting Speaker. I cannot hear what is being said by any of the Members. There is too much chuntering going on from the left and the right at times. Can you ask all Members to show a bit of decorum in the Chamber? The people of Northern Ireland are being let down on many fronts, and some of the behaviour and chuntering is unacceptable.”
“<BR /> <BR />With that in mind, the UUP has written today to ask the head of the Civil Service to convene all-party talks to establish a Programme for Government and the Minister of Finance to reopen the public consultation on the Budget to allow our people to let us know how they want their money to be spent. Those are measures that, I believe, can and should be taken now to restore, in some way, the confidence of the people of Northern Ireland whom we all purport to serve. <BR /> <BR />It gives me great pleasure to once again nominate Mr Mike Nesbitt for the role of Speaker of the House.”
“I pay absolute respect to the Minister of Health whom we had during the pandemic, because there was not one person behind a door that I knocked who said that we did not have the right person in the right place at the right time. <BR /> <BR />The cost-of-living crisis gets worse every day. Whilst I call on the DUP to at least enable the Assembly to function and Ministers to be scrutinised by supporting our nomination today, we at least can agree that the issues that I have spoken of will not disappear and need to be addressed now because they are getting worse.”
“I agree with him that it is absolutely unfair, particularly to the people who elected me in Lagan Valley. <BR /> <BR />Having covered the ground across Lagan Valley, I can attest that the DUP was clear on the doorsteps about not nominating for First Minister or, indeed, deputy First Minister without the protocol being addressed, but at no point was the matter of nominating for Speaker mentioned. That, along with the co-option in place of the DUP leader, has left many voters in Lagan Valley shaking their heads and feeling misled. <BR /> <BR />My leader spoke here a couple of weeks ago, and he majored on the silence of this place while the people of Northern Ireland battle with crippling waiting lists and the health service remains under so much pressure.”
“He spoke about a Northern Ireland for everyone and about his brand of unionism, which very much resonated with mine. It was his confidence and belief in my ability that contributed to me entering the fray, and it is a real privilege today to return that favour and formally nominate Mr Mike Nesbitt for the role of Speaker. <BR /> <BR />I referred to the sitting today as being potentially artificial because we will know in a short time whether we can convince the party to my right to make a move today. Whilst I said that it is artificial, it is absolutely within the rules, and I hope that the DUP shows a graduated response, as has been articulated by the DUP leader in its response to the moves by the British Government with regard to the protocol.”
“As a councillor in Lisburn and Castlereagh City Council, I received a call from him one day. He asked me to come and visit Stormont. It was my first visit to Stormont; I had never been here before.”
“Mr Acting Speaker, I take this opportunity to welcome you to the Chair. I hope that you will not sit there too many times. As for your being Father of the House, I hope that there will not be too many in-jokes in the UUP room; maybe it all went on this morning. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the chance, albeit in a potentially artificial setting, to nominate my colleague and friend Mr Mike Nesbitt for the position of Speaker. I do so in full confidence that Mike is indeed the right person for that role. Mike's attributes are many, but his political leadership and confidence are perhaps eclipsed only by his unparalleled articulation. I struggle to say that word, but he is incredibly articulate. I enjoy listening to him, and many across the Chamber enjoy Mike's participation. Mike is responsible for me being here today.”
“I nominate Mr Mike Nesbitt for the role of Speaker of the Chamber.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. It is just a point of clarity with regard to the question and the manner in which I asked it. With particular regard to clause 5, an individual's prayer in the buffer zone will not constitute an offence in the interpretation of clause 5. Is that fair?”
“Does the Member agree, for clarity in the interpretation of the Bill, that someone standing in personal prayer without approaching anyone entering or exiting a defined premises in the buffer zone is not causing the mischief that clause 5 intends to prevent and, therefore, that person is not guilty of that offence?”
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill has certainly raised the debate on assembly and protest, as many Members have said. I would have expected at least to have seen a formal impact assessment, given that pregnancy and abortion are such important and much-debated matters. Perhaps the Member, at the end of the debate, will clarify what assessment will take place if the Bill is passed today. <BR /> <BR />If the Member will further indulge me, I seek clarity on an issue that has been distorted and misrepresented, and clarity and definition that will help to form the regulation behind the legislation, if it becomes statute. Clause 5(2) states that it is an offence for a person:”
“It seems strange to speak, probably for the last time in this mandate, on a topic on which I disagree with the Bill's sponsor. The terminology that has been used to describe us, with my being pro-life and the Member's being pro-choice, is not fair. We are debating the Final Stage of the Bill. I respect the fact that the Bill's sponsor has been working on it for some time, not just during this mandate but before it. I am also aware that the Health Committee carried out scrutiny of the Bill. However, the Health Committee did not perform its function to its full and fair extent. It did not facilitate a fair hearing for some of the compassionate pro-life groups that genuinely and compassionately seek to care for people and offer practical help and counsel.”
“We debated the overall responsibility being in TEO, but, like the Bill sponsor, I thank all the agencies that have been chasing this dream for many years and the young people, teachers and parents who spoke so well to define and design the Bill. Once more, I congratulate my Lagan Valley colleague on this piece of legislation. It is win, win, win and win.”
“<BR /> <BR />Teachers gave evidence in one of the sessions about participation in activities, particularly sports. Justin McNulty will remember this. They found that COVID led to some issues being identified and that the lack of availability of products, for whatever reason, was stopping young women from being able to participate in sports and activities. Therefore, we are actually addressing a fourth item of unintended consequences. I would call this the win-win-win-win Bill, Mr Catney, so well done on that. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Bill sponsor and his team, and I thank the Minister for Communities for coming in as she did. I also thank the Chamber for supporting the amendment, which I thought was useful.”
“The thing that probably excited me most when talking to young people in the community groups, and especially to teachers, was the stigma and the dignity that is not there for some people. The fact that people will now be able to go into premises discreetly, without having to ask, and access products is absolutely marvellous. I do not think that that was the intent of the Bill, but it will really bring dignity and raise the profile of talking about menstruation and menstrual items, especially, perhaps, among young men. That is brilliant. The impact on young people that came out of the problem — the lack of dignity, the stigma and the inability to talk about it — fed into the poor mental health of a lot of people. Again, this will help reduce poor mental health among young people.”
“It will keep money in the pockets of some people who were not previously able to procure period products because they did not have enough money and who perhaps at the moment are having to choose from heating, eating, period products and all the other essential things in life. In a small way, the Bill has therefore started to chip away at how we deal with poverty.”
“<BR /> <BR />If you will indulge me, Mr Deputy Speaker, I will speak about a few of those. First, the Bill does what it says on the tin, in that it provides universal access to period products for those who need them and defines the places where they will be available. I am proud to have been on the Education Committee when we discussed a number of other issues. Those included the need to determine the quality of products so that they were not bargain-basement-type products and to make sure that the environmental and climate-affecting aspects were picked up on. <BR /> <BR />Moreover, by meeting different groups and engaging with the Bill sponsor, the Committee identified that one of the barriers to accessing period products is poverty. It was not necessarily its purpose, but the Bill will, in a small way, tackle poverty.”
“That he sponsored the Bill is very fitting and a testament to the man who he is. Pat, regardless of what happens in the election, you can be very proud. The Bill will bring about serious changes and improvements to the lives of young girls, women and those who menstruate. <BR /> <BR />When we legislate, there is always a Bill title and the written text. People will look at that and say, "Yes, it gives universal access and defines the premises where the products will be, and those products will be in the hands of the people who need them". That is the purpose of the Bill. Do you know something, however? The unintended consequences of the legislation that we make are sometimes even better. This Bill is an example of legislation that will reach places and affect people's lives in positive ways that were not even intended.”
“It was my pleasure to work with Pat Catney as a councillor on Lisburn and Castlereagh City Council, and, indeed, it has been my pleasure to work with him as an MLA since 2017. As born-and-bred Lisburn men, we are particularly passionate about Lagan Valley. <BR /> <BR />Sometimes I look at legislation such as that tabled by Mr Catney and other politicians and ask myself, "Why did I not do that?". I am envious of the Bill. It is excellent legislation, and I again commend the Member for introducing it. <BR /> <BR />I recall his party colleague Cara Hunter, who is sitting behind him, talking about a conversation that they had had in their office at the beginning of these two years about Pat's fear, as a man, of sponsoring a Bill that dealt with menstruation and period products.”
“I appreciate that, and it is good to have that on the record.”
“A good oul sing. I feel like a pop star now.”
“As a Lagan Valley MLA and someone who served on council with the Member —.”
“I never envisaged that, outside politics, I would sit in the same room as you and work with you, and it has been an absolute pleasure. We thank the Business Office and Committee staff for their work, and we thank all those who work to keep this place going. Being Chief Whip afforded me an opportunity to work with some people from across all the parties, and it has been an absolute pleasure. It has been really good to do what people do not see us doing. <BR /> <BR />In closing, we are going to lose some fantastic people, including you, Mr Speaker, Chris Lyttle, Paula Bradley and Sinéad Bradley. If I could have picked somebody from your parties to go, it would not have been you guys. Thank you, Mr Speaker.”
“They utilised online technologies, as we have all learned to do. We have all got used to hearing, "You are muted, Robbie. You are muted". <BR /> <BR />We spent a bit of time paying tribute to Members who have passed. Sadly, at that time, we did not know that we were yet to lose some serving Members. I would just like to read their names into the record once more: Christopher Stalford, Gordon Dunne and John Dallat. We lost John Hume, Seamus Mallon and, from Lagan Valley, Ivan Davis, Billy Bell, Cecil Calvert and Seamus Close. They were incredible politicians, and there is something that we can learn from each of those people. We remember their families, who still grieve to this day. <BR /> <BR />I thank my party staff and the staff in the Speaker's Office, who have been fantastic. I have really enjoyed working with you, Mr Speaker.”
“If you want to boycott something, boycott Westminster. Have the MPs boycott Westminster until we see the change to the protocol that we need to see. <BR /> <BR />When we did come back, we could not have envisaged that COVID would come, and that is something that this generation and our children's generation will live with for many, many years. What did we learn? We learned about the resilience of the people of Northern Ireland. We learned about their ability to withstand the greatest pressures that the world can bring on them, and I pay tribute particularly to those in the health service, as Mr O'Dowd did. Indeed, I pay tribute to our teachers, who battled through, looked after our children and tried their best to educate them and give them as stable a place to be as they could, when they could.”
“<BR /> <BR />To the politicians in the Chamber, I say this: this is where the work needs to happen. After the election, I urge my colleagues not to take a leaf out of Sinn Féin's book — Sinn Féin kept us out of government for three years — but to get back in here.”
“It really is a privilege to speak at the very end of the mandate. I thank the people of Lagan Valley for putting their trust in me as their Ulster Unionist representative. <BR /> <BR />I go back to the absolute start of the mandate in 2017 — my first mandate started in 2016, while my second election was in 2017 — and I agree with Mr Durkan about the dysfunctionality of this place. Although it was good to get back here in 2020, the only reason that we did was because the people of Northern Ireland told all our politicians across the country, "Get back to work and represent us". We sat down, put our shoulder to the wheel and created NDNA. If anybody takes full credit for that, it again does a disservice to the people of Northern Ireland, who told us to get on with our work.”
“I do not intend to run through all or any of those views again; the Official Report records them. <BR /> <BR />Mr Deputy Speaker, the Business Committee has been advised that, today, you will send a copy of the Official Report to the Secretary of State, who may then choose to amend the proposed regulations before laying them for approval by resolution of each House of Parliament. On behalf of the Business Committee, I ask all Members to support the motion.”
“I thank all the Members who made a contribution this morning. I intend to be very brief in concluding the debate. <BR /> <BR />In tabling the motion, the Business Committee's intention was to give Members an opportunity to express their views on proposed amendments to the Flags Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2000. The Business Committee has not considered the proposals or taken a view on them. <BR /> <BR />As detailed in the debate, the Secretary of State wrote to the Speaker on 15 March asking that the Assembly consider the draft regulations and provide a report of its views by Tuesday 22 March 2022. Consequently, in order to meet that deadline, the Business Committee was required to ensure that the Assembly had an opportunity to debate the proposals today. Members have now set out their views on them.”
“It must be a matter of considerable concern for the Assembly that sums like that have been spent without adequate scrutiny, or indeed, in view of the controversy that BT has been involved in on a number of occasions, without informing the Finance Committee.”
“<BR /> <BR />However, a worrying development occurred during the gathering of evidence on the rule. It transpired that an IT system for the translation of documents has been purchased for the sum of £261,000. That should, rightly, be a matter of concern, especially as it is hard to see how that represents good value for money. Members may consider that the Audit Office, as a matter of urgency, should investigate how a contract for £261,000 was let to British Telecom for that service before the legislation was even discussed, never mind passed, and whether that represents good value for money, if any.”
“<BR /> <BR />First, let me be clear that the UUP is not against the provision of documentation for marriage, civil partnerships and civil registration certificates in Irish or, indeed, any of the predominant languages in Northern Ireland. The Ulster Unionist Party wishes that all certificates could be available in Ulster Scots, Irish or any of the many languages that we have in Northern Ireland. That would reflect a welcoming diverse and vibrant multi-ethnic community. All certificates should, of course, be bilingual with English to aid identification and access to services across our nation, be that nationally at United Kingdom level or, indeed, in Scotland, Wales or England. The availability of English will also aid travel and identity documentation, especially in places like North America and many other western countries.”
“No, it is OK; I will not bother. I will go through in the manner that we have been doing and not take interventions. <BR /> <BR />We will not support the annulment today. However, I say to Sinn Féin — the Member for West Belfast talked about it — you might have hijacked the language, as some people say, but what we have seen over the St Patrick's Day celebrations in America makes me deeply uneasy. I see Sinn Féin trying to hijack what should be one of the most important days for all of us on this island, whether you are from Northern Ireland or Ireland. The politicisation of St Patrick's Day absolutely makes me cold.”
“The Member for South Belfast has teed me up rightly. I am going to bring a slightly different tone to this debate. To be fair to Mr Allister, he has been consistent for many years in his scrutiny of these items, whether it is the Irish language or finance. I cannot say the same for the party to the left of me. When we discussed NDNA in talks, two parties discussed and designed the culture and languages Act, which we did not get to see. They seem to equivocate when —”
“I thank the Member for his very useful supplementary question. Official invitations to visit the Assembly and Parliament Buildings are the responsibility of the Speaker, not the Assembly Commission. As we are all aware, it is not possible to know how full a programme of travel and events Her Majesty The Queen will be able to undertake for the platinum jubilee. However, the normal protocol is that such invites are best taken forward through official channels rather than in a debate on the Floor of the Chamber.”