Robbie Butler
Lagan Valley · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Officials highlighted that alignment was provided through existing EU-derived arrangements and that coherence with existing regulatory frameworks was identified as a main consideration.”
“I note that the Member for Strangford agrees: she understands the value of our fisheries in those areas. There are other complexities. The Isle of Man Government have now done a bit of a circle around that island, which makes it difficult for our fishers from Portavogie, Kilkeel and Portaferry to craft and graft a living from some of the…”
“The Committee took the opportunity to question officials on several issues and highlight matters warranting scrutiny at Committee Stage but was not limited to those areas.”
“As the Minister said, they have possibly been viewed as competing demands, but they are not competing demands, because clean water is part of sustainable food production.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am glad to see language in the Bill on the sustainability of the aquaculture sector, and I want to lean in a bit on that. Aquaculture pastimes have, perhaps, been underutilised, whether they relate to the angling fraternity or other river and water users.”
“Today, I want to talk about a very talented young girl from Lisburn called Freya Terris. Freya, who is 17 years old, attends Friends' School and studies the piano under former Lisburn resident Rory Dowse. Freya is an incredibly accomplished young pianist and has performed in the Ulster Hall.”
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“Hopefully, someone has wished you a happy new year, Mr Speaker. If they have not done so, I will.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way again. This is a really important point. We met the rural support groups. If there is any financial impact on the farming and agriculture sector, just transition will need to kick in. A just transition can be created only if we travel that route. Will the green jobs be distributed equitably to ensure that those who live in rural areas can avail themselves of the opportunities?”
“I thank the Minister for letting me in again. Will the Minister put on record whether there was any dissension in the Executive about tabling this piece? Obviously, it has been put through with the Executive's approval.”
“The point that I would like to get to, because you have referenced it a number of times, is that the CCC set the targets a number of months ago, and I am sure that the Committee will agree with me that that is absolutely a given point. However, our job is to scrutinise the Department's work and decisions and what you bring forward, Minister. I do not want to pre-empt it too much, but will you give the Committee clarity and confidence today that, when you bring forward the changes, ambition and plans, it will have reasonable time, rather than its being the way that the SL1 and SR were brought forward in this instance?”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. I have waited for quite a while.”
“We owe it to our farmers, our rural communities and our children that our environment is protected, and we need to ensure that the transition to net zero, which is achievable, is also rooted in common sense.”
“It is unacceptable that decisions that are made elsewhere, particularly under the auspices of the Northern Ireland protocol, continue to deepen our democratic deficit. The message that we send must be clear: our farmers, and the high standards that they uphold, must come before trade-offs that are likely to exacerbate global climate failures and diminish food quality. We cannot allow deforestation in the Amazon to undermine the commitments made under these draft regulations, but nor can we ask our farmers to compete on an unlevel playing field, where imported goods are produced at the expense of global biodiversity and carbon reductions. <BR /> <BR />Let us remember that the challenges before us are significant but so, too, are our responsibilities.”
“That demonstrates, within our own legislation, a pragmatic understanding of the vital role that agriculture plays in our economy and food security. However, it must go further. Farmers must have access to tools, funding and knowledge if they are to transition into sustainable practice without jeopardising their livelihoods. <BR /> <BR />Added to that are the external pressures emanating from trade agreements such as the EU Mercosur deal. That deal, which would open the door to lower food standards and increase deforestation in South America, threatens the viability of farms not only in Northern Ireland but across these very islands. It is a stark reminder of the broader context in which we operate.”
“Farmers, in particular, need assurances that their sacrifices will be met with tangible support, not vague commitments. Delivering on that promise is the key to maintaining their trust and ensuring their continued participation in the collective effort to meet our climate goals. Failure to do so will risk alienating the very people whose cooperation we most urgently require. That is why it is crucial to ensure that climate policies are accompanied by robust support mechanisms. <BR /> <BR />Indeed, article 1 of the Climate Change Act (Northern Ireland) 2022 recognises that by setting a reduced target for methane emissions of around 46%, and not the 100% of other greenhouse gases, which acknowledges the unique challenges faced by our agri-food sector.”
“<BR /> <BR />I must acknowledge the understandable nervousness in the agriculture community. Farmers are being asked to implement significant changes at a time of immense economic pressure. Many feel caught between conflicting demands: the imperative to adopt greener practices and the harsh reality of financial survival. As has often been said, farmers want to be green, but they cannot be green if they are in the red. <BR /> <BR />It is not enough to ask farmers and industries to bear the weight of change without offering clarity and certainty in return. The reality of a just transition must be more than a principle; it must be a plan. We must articulate clearly how that phase will provide the financial support, technical guidance and practical solutions that are needed to empower those on the front lines of this transformation.”
“The draft Climate Change (Carbon Budgets 2023-2037) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2024 and the draft Climate Change (2040 Emissions Target) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2024 set ambitious targets that not only demand the commitment of all sectors and all of society but, in the view of the Ulster Unionist Party, require leadership from our departmental and statutory bodies in particular. It has been said that leadership is not about being in charge but about taking care of those in your charge. Our Departments must embody that principle, leading by example to demonstrate that achieving these targets is not only possible but vital. Departments must prioritise sustainable practice in their operations. Departmental and statutory bodes can inspire confidence and collaboration across all sectors if they lead the way and do not fail.”
“The result of the vote was four ayes and two noes, showing that the majority of Committee members present supported the draft SRs being debated today and supported the draft SRs. <BR /> <BR />That ends my comments as Chair, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. If you will indulge me, I will make some comments as agriculture, environment and rural affairs spokesperson for the Ulster Unionist Party and on my own behalf. As someone who is absolutely passionate about and loves and cares for the very fabric of Northern Ireland, I, and the Ulster Unionist Party, recognise that the decisions that we make today will shape and determine the environmental legacy that we leave for future generations.”
“The Committee agreed the minutes of the meeting of 28 November, which highlighted the range of views expressed the previous week. As I was on business with another Committee in Scotland on 5 December, I was not able to attend the meeting at which the Committee considered the draft SRs as laid. I thank the Deputy Chair for chairing that meeting, and I thank my Committee colleagues for undertaking the scrutiny of the draft SRs to the timescales needed, hence my need to burn the midnight oil since then. <BR /> <BR />The Committee noted the Chair's statement, and the Deputy Chair put the following questions to the Committee. Question one, does the Committee support the draft SRs going to the Chamber for debate next week for the House to have its say and make the decisions? Does the Committee support the content of the draft SRs?”
“Officials then described good interdepartmental working and what that looks like in practice to ensure that sectoral plans are moving in the right direction. They added that the strategic oversight group meets regularly and that there are now a sectoral leads working group and a climate change team in every Department. <BR /> <BR />The outcome of the SL1 consideration was that the Committee noted that the draft SR would be debated in the Chamber and was content that my speech reflect the various views and issues raised. I hope that I have managed to do that, but I am sure that individual members will be happy to add to the issues in their own speeches. At its meeting on 5 December, the Committee considered the draft SRs as laid in the Business Office.”
“<BR /> <BR />In general, Committee members were concerned about the particular challenges for people from rural communities, and the Committee wanted to ensure that the Department takes that into consideration when developing policy and mitigation. A just transition for rural areas is vital, and it is the responsibility of all Departments. Officials said that they were planning for benefits as we strive towards the targets and highlighted the fact that new green jobs and technologies are being created in countries that are pushing ahead with the changes. The Minister has alluded to that, so, in his winding-up speech, perhaps he could point to where some of those jobs and technologies are likely to be created and where they have been identified for Northern Ireland.”
“Some members expressed concerns that the carbon budget emissions targets are, like the proposed 2040 target, too ambitious, and that too many moving parts need to fall into place if the targets are to be met. For example, significant investment is needed, but the budget is not there, and input from the private sector has not been pinned down. However, officials reminded members that a lot of money is now being spent from the baseline and that the aim is to spend that baseline with better focus in the blocks of time for achieving the carbon budget targets. Other members were keen to see the regulations proceed at pace, as Northern Ireland is already behind in that regard, but it was accepted that some sectors will move faster than others and that the potential for some sectors to offset other, slower-moving sectors needs to be considered.”
“As Chair, I expressed my concerns that Northern Ireland was well down the league table of moving towards net zero and that I did not wish to see that continue but would like to see the targets progress.”
“The first carbon budget is to be set at a level that has a 33% average annual reduction in emissions against the baseline; the second a 48% average annual reduction against the baseline; and the third a 62% average annual reduction against the same baseline. The Committee also heard that DAERA intends to make the Climate Change (2040 Emissions Target) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2024 to set a 2040 emission reduction target of 77% under powers conferred on it by section 5(2) of the same Act. <BR /> <BR />There then followed a robust question and answer session with officials, as members recognised the tight timescale and had concerns that they wished to see explored. There was no consensus. A range of views was expressed around the Committee table.”
“<BR /> <BR />On 2 May, the Committee started its consideration of these policy matters when it had notification of the publication of the outcome of the consultation on Northern Ireland's 2030 and 2040 emission reduction targets and the first three carbon budgets. The Committee, at its meeting on 28 November, considered the SL1s for both sets of draft regulations. We had a detailed briefing from officials and heard that bringing forward the regulations was a statutory duty, that both SRs would be laid before the Assembly under the draft affirmative resolution procedure and that, as the SRs are cross-cutting, Executive approval had been secured on 21 November. <BR /> <BR />DAERA intends to make the Climate Change (Carbon Budgets 2023-2037) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2024 under powers conferred on it by section 23 of the Act.”
“In reality, we are trying to assist the Department with a tight turnaround on a very important matter. <BR /> <BR />The Committee has been particularly interested in scrutinising progress towards the establishment of the just transition commission. We believe that getting the just transition right is the key to ensuring that, during the transition to a net zero society, no one is left behind or disproportionately affected. On a recent visit to the Loughry campus of the College of Agriculture, Food and Rural Enterprise (CAFRE), we focused our meeting on hearing from a range of rural networks and support groups. Time and time again, we heard the concerns of rural communities, including that their needs will not be considered sufficiently in the sectoral plans.”
“The working relationship has been positive, and we wish to continue that. However, on this occasion, the Committee was asked to work to an extremely tight timescale. This has not been the Minister's way to date with us, and we hope that this was an outlier and that, in future, if there are specific reasons why matters of this importance require such a turnaround, we will be provided with better notice and detailed rationale. As Chair, I have been burning the midnight oil to read through the detail and get up to date to ensure that it gets the scrutiny that it deserves. I am sure that every member of the Committee can attest to that. As the Minster is aware, the Committee takes its scrutiny role seriously, and I would not wish to make it appear that we have rushed any part of the scrutiny.”
“<BR /> <BR />We know that the Climate Change Committee provided advice to DAERA in March 2023 on what it considered to be appropriate emission reduction targets for 2030 and 2040 on the basis of its report 'The Path to a Net Zero Northern Ireland'. Those have been set out: a 48% reduction in emissions is the 2030 target in the Act, which has already been agreed, and a 77% reduction in emissions by 2040 against the baseline is the proposed target in one of the draft SRs before us today. <BR /> <BR />I assure the House that the Committee has been actively monitoring the Department's implementation of the elements of the Climate Change Act, and the Minister and officials have been diligent in keeping us informed of progress through substantial written and oral briefings.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee understands that the carbon budgets will be set at a Northern Ireland level rather than a sectoral level and wishes to take the opportunity to remind the House that all Departments are required, under the Climate Change Act 2022, to ensure that a carbon budget is achieved but that it will be the accumulative impact of reductions in emissions across each sector that will enable it to be met. The climate action plan is to be the driver to help to ensure that the first carbon budget is achieved, and it would, of course, have been more helpful for the Committee to see the plan alongside the regulations.”
“I thank the Minister for what he has laid out this morning. I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Committee on these important draft regulations, which, as we know, will implement the main elements of the Climate Change Act (Northern Ireland) 2022, which the Assembly passed. The regulations include a 2040 emissions target and the requirement to set five-year carbon budgets to cap emissions. Not every member of the Committee was supportive of the draft SRs, particularly the targets in them. I will go on to highlight some of those concerns shortly.”
“The Minister is well aware that mental health is a cross-departmental priority that is underpinned by New Decade, New Approach. Therefore, is he able to outline any specific bids that he has made to his Executive partners for investment in the mental health workforce?”
“Squirrels can sit in a park in the sun and travel without restriction in relative peace, which is not something that girls and women can do in Afghanistan. <BR /> <BR />As we rightly celebrate the moment of liberation with our Syrian friends, we need to be vigilant about what comes next and not to be slow in supporting open and democratic government and demanding human rights for all, so that Syria becomes the place that it once was — a wonderful, thriving place in the Middle East — and somewhere that can set an example.”
“When we celebrated the end of the fighting in Afghanistan a number of years ago, sadly, the Taliban then took control in 2021. Just seven months after taking control, the nefarious gender-controlling hand of the Taliban started its systemic gender oppression. The first thing that they did was to ban post-primary education. Then there was the full covering of bodies and faces with a ban on intercity travelling for unaccompanied females of any age. They banned women and girls from parks and gyms and deployed armed guards to stop girls entering universities. Meryl Streep, the famous actress and singer, stated — she meant no humour in this — that:”
“I welcome the change wrought in the last 24 hours in Syria with the end of the Assad regime. Bashar al-Assad has held an iron grip since 2000, as did his father before him. It was a regime that thought that gassing its citizens was fit for purpose. They used chemical weapons and imprisoned women and children in horrendous conditions. From 2011 to 2023, over 600,000 lives were lost — people murdered — and 6·7 million Syrians were displaced across the globe. Lagan Valley is better off for some of those Syrians who share our space. If you were listening to the radio and the stories from Syrians, you will have heard and sensed the sense of relief, jubilation and excitement that they now have. <BR /> <BR />Regrettably, that moment comes with some caution, and some Syrians have been talking about that caution, because we have been there before.”
“I commend the Member. His ears would have been burning last week as Kellie Armstrong and I talked about him. I say, "Well done" in his battle against cancer. We are much better off for having him in the Chamber. <BR /> <BR />Before I move on to my statement, I pay tribute to Seán Fitzsimons, as, I know, the leader of the Opposition will do. Sadly, Seán, who was known to all of us, passed away at the end of last week. I put on record my appreciation to Seán and his family. He was an amazing disability advocate. We will miss him greatly, and I look forward to the Member for South Belfast's tribute. <BR /> <BR />It is a real honour to be able to stand up in the Chamber during Members' statements and talk about a wide range of issues, and we will get a lot of that today.”
“I thank the Member for his answer. I am a bit perplexed as to why we would only clean the east and west ends. We are the custodians of this Building and the Commission is charged with that. Is the Commission not being penny wise and pound foolish in that regard? In a number of years, will one of the lines on the tour be, "Not only did we cover the Building with tar and manure in the Second World War but we failed to maintain it in the 2020s"?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer, and I am sorry if I missed the answer to a previous question. <BR /> <BR />Does the Minister agree that we get it right when we set things up to ensure that people are not discriminated against rather than when we use some form of positive action? We should set targets and parameters for including people as opposed to trying to stop excluding them.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. This is a piece that has intrigued me. I know that the Member was at the briefing last week. There seemed to be a smaller uptake of the legacy aid scheme than was envisaged. I am sure that the Member will agree that to maximise participation in any new scheme is an ambition not just for food security but for the competitiveness that is required. Perhaps the Minister will indicate why he believes that some organisations, particularly those in apple growing, did not avail themselves of the scheme as it was, and whether it is the intention to develop something that will bring in a broader cross-section of the horticulture community?”
“Mushroom growers and the whole horticulture sector face into those pressures. We should be doing everything that we can do. Whilst value for money is absolutely appropriate, and we have to be on our toes fiscally, the reality is that food security on these islands has come under its greatest pressure over the past few months with the changes that have been brought in by the Labour Government. <BR /> <BR />I look forward to engaging with the Minister on the Bill. I cannot promise that we will always be so cordial — we will hold his feet to the fire — but I look forward to his answers on those points.”
“The Minister will also be aware, from last week's Adjournment debate, that the fishers, as well as the mushroom sector in particular, are under severe pressure at the moment with seasonal work and the inability to acquire useful visas for the workers who are required for that work. I have a concern about the potential worry of a double whammy for them. I know that the Minister has said that it is not his intention to remove the funding, but given that this is the only funding support that Northern Ireland's mushroom growers, in particular, can avail themselves of, they need some certainty in that regard. As a Member, I would welcome that certainty being given and underpinned at every iteration at which it is sought. My last point is this: we have a global food market, and the competition for every product is severe.”
“The Committee looks forward to considering the Bill in further detail during Committee Stage, and, as I have said, will be particularly mindful of considering any unintended consequences through a detailed scrutiny process. That ends my comments as Committee Chair. <BR /> <BR />I will add a couple of small points, if that is OK. I will maybe phrase them in the way of questions, Minister, because we are now in the legislative process where we can have proper debates, which is good. It has been insinuated — it has not been bottomed out in my head — that if the scheme were not to change, DAERA would be faced with the potential of having to fund schemes outside of Northern Ireland. Perhaps the Minister could give us more detail regarding that aspect today, because I am sure that that is not somewhere that any of us would want to land.”
“<BR /> <BR />Although the Bill is short, like myself, the Committee looks forward to proper scrutiny of the enabling powers and to engaging with stakeholders on these proposals to see what benefits they could bring, while fully investigating any unintended consequences. This is not the stage for going into detail on the clauses, but, in respect of the potential and unintended consequences, the Committee will need to consider and take advice on the powers in clause 4, which the Minister has touched on, although we note that they are underpinned by the use of the draft affirmative procedure. The Committee is supportive of the principles of the Bill regarding support being prioritised where it best provides value for money and best meets local need.”
“<BR /> <BR />Other principles of the Bill are to provide DAERA with powers to make subordinate legislation that will allow amendments to be made to the assimilated laws governing the FVAS and to the assimilated law governing the agri-food information and promotion schemes. The Committee is keen to see bespoke schemes to support the local agri-food sector, but is being asked to consider the enabling Bill without having had sight of the completed policy review. That is not ideal, so we look forward to hearing what the fruit and veg growers and producers have to say at Committee on these matters, should the Bill pass its Second Stage.”
“On 20 June, we heard the NI Mushroom Growers Association's concerns that if "discretionary" became "removal" at any point, it would remove one of the only supports for mushroom farms, as they are not eligible for land-based programmes, such as the basic farm payment. The Committee is also aware that it needs to consider the Bill in a different fiscal environment to that envisaged during the consultation — indeed, when the Minister launched it. I refer to the removal of earmarked funding for farming support payments now potentially putting additional pressure on any discretionary parts of the Minister's budget.”
“The Committee understands that one objective is to make the FVAS funding discretionary prior to the end of the current programme, as eligible producer organisations will be submitting new three-year programmes before September 2025, which adds some import to what we are doing today. The Committee appreciates the Minister's view that he wishes to be able to prioritise support where it provides best value for money. That should be close to home for all of us as legislators. However, if the Bill passes Second Stage, the Committee will need to consider the impact of the proposal from all sides.”
“While this was not universally supported, there was some understanding of the need to make funding discretionary and for the Minister to prioritise. There was a call for changes to be made to the scheme, as the EU scheme had improved since Brexit. At the Committee meeting on 12 September, we considered a further response from the Minister highlighting that the FVAS is a devolved scheme and that, therefore, Northern Ireland is free to consider what support best suits the needs of our horticulture sector, the current post-EU policy review and the development of agricultural support. We are told that that is ongoing. In parallel to that review, the Minister is seeking primary powers through the Bill to make FVAS support discretionary and allow DAERA to modify its legacy scheme. <BR /> <BR />I will turn to the main principles of the Bill.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Minister then consulted on making the funding for the FVAS discretionary, providing a power to make subordinate legislation that will allow amendments to be assimilated law governing the FVAS and providing a power to make subordinate legislation, which will allow amendments to be made to the assimilated law governing the agri-food information and promotion schemes. <BR /> <BR />Just over two months later, at the Committee meeting on 20 June, members received an oral briefing from the Bill officials, which was to update us on the outcomes of the consultation. In summary, the Committee heard that seven responses had been received and that the comments reflected the particular importance of the FVAS to the local mushroom sector.”
“At the Committee meeting on 11 April, members considered a letter from the Minister informing us of his plans to consult on a Bill proposal to amend two legacy schemes from the common organisation of the markets and agriculture policy, otherwise known as CMO. The Committee is aware that, since leaving the EU, DAERA continues to meet existing funding commitments under the CMO schemes, including providing aid to producer organisations in the fruit and vegetable sector. The CMO schemes were part of the common agricultural policy that governed UK agricultural support as part of the UK's EU membership. The Rural Payments Agency (RPA) administers and publishes information on those schemes on DAERA's behalf.”
“Before I start, I commend the Minister for his performance on Radio Ulster this morning on the very important topic of Belfast lough. Whilst I commend you today, Minister, as Chair of the AERA Committee, I cannot guarantee that that will always be the case. The Committee will certainly work hard to keep your feet to the fire. <BR /> <BR />On behalf of the Committee for Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs, I welcome the Second Stage of the Agriculture Bill, which was introduced on 25 November. If the Bill passes Second Stage today, it will be the first Bill to come before the AERA Committee in this mandate. At last week's Committee meeting, to prepare for Second Stage, members considered the background to the Bill and the Committee's scrutiny of the matter to date.”
“<BR /> <BR />I put on record my thanks and, I am sure, the thanks of the Chamber to Kevin Sinfield for what he is doing in memory of his Leeds Rhinos teammate Rob Burrow. To all who are navigating their lives with motor neurone disease, I say this: we see you, we hear you and we will support you in your battle.”
“<BR /> <BR />When I worked in Springfield Road fire station many years ago, in the early 2000s, there was a very fit, popular and good firefighter who, in his early forties, was diagnosed with motor neurone disease. Sadly, he lost his battle after three or four years. We know that, often, it can be lonely for people with the disease, but a team of people in the Motor Neurone Disease Association will walk those steps with those who suffer and their families and support them on their journey. That is really important. What we can do is face into the challenge that affects those people. We can support them, raise awareness, hope and pray and put finances and resources towards, perhaps, one day, achieving a cure for that dreadful disease.”
“It is a debilitating and, ultimately, painful disease for those who have it and the families who support them. <BR /> <BR />Kevin and the Leeds Rhinos team have taken on a challenge. I think that this is their third year. Last year, they were in Dublin. Today, they are in Belfast. It is the 7 in 7 in 7 challenge. Over seven days, they are running 7 kilometres in seven regions and trying to do each 7 kilometres in an hour. I think that they are called ultramarathons. I know how hard it is to run 5 kilometres, never mind 7 kilometres. The team are doing it with a team of volunteers to raise awareness and, hopefully, money to combat what is a dreadful disease that affects far too many people.”
“What date is it? It is 3 December. May I wish you a happy Christmas, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker? I am a Christmassy type of person, but I often have to catch myself on when December starts and I play my Christmas music and get really happy, because the reality for many people across the world is that they have illness or sickness, and, for them, Christmas can be a really challenging time. <BR /> <BR />I am not sure whether you were listening to the radio this morning, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. Kevin Sinfield, the Leeds Rhinos legend, is visiting Belfast today to raise awareness of motor neurone disease. Obviously, motor neurone disease affects people globally. Here in the UK, around 5,000 people a year are diagnosed and live with motor neurone disease.”
“I thank the Minister for his work in that regard. If we do not have time to legislate or if legislation is not possible, what substantive measures are available to the Minister, maybe working collaboratively with the Education Minister and the Health Minister, to affect and change the lives of those young people, who are being underserved at the moment?”
“At times, a lot of the innovation that we can see will bring benefits to what we are doing. We were in Loughry college last week, and one of the innovative practices that people there are looking at is how to harvest prawn meat better from shells that would be binned and probably cast aside. We will hopefully hear from the Minister about that circular economy. <BR /> <BR />We can do this only if there is a sustainable and resilient workforce in our harbours, whether that is in Ardglass, Kilkeel or Portavogie, and it is absolutely incumbent on us to be loud and clear today that we are speaking for an industry that faces unprecedented challenge. It has been here before, but it cannot last. We hope that, today, the Minister can shed some light on what the Department's ambitions will be to help us achieve that.”
“<BR /> <BR />Part of that will be fleet modernisation. Many Members have pointed to the fact that it is a dangerous job. One of the ways that we can ensure that we equip and keep our fishermen — fisher people — safe is to ensure that the fleet that they have is not just modern but equipped to the levels that it should be. As Miss McIlveen pointed out, it is about the modern technologies and sourcing to ensure that they are as efficient as possible in their actions when fishing and to ensure that they are competitive in the global market. This is not just about catching for local purposes but about ensuring that they are globally competitive. We also have to have an eye on the environment, and, as has rightly been pointed out, those things are not mutually exclusive.”