Robbie Butler
Lagan Valley · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Officials highlighted that alignment was provided through existing EU-derived arrangements and that coherence with existing regulatory frameworks was identified as a main consideration.”
“I note that the Member for Strangford agrees: she understands the value of our fisheries in those areas. There are other complexities. The Isle of Man Government have now done a bit of a circle around that island, which makes it difficult for our fishers from Portavogie, Kilkeel and Portaferry to craft and graft a living from some of the…”
“The Committee took the opportunity to question officials on several issues and highlight matters warranting scrutiny at Committee Stage but was not limited to those areas.”
“As the Minister said, they have possibly been viewed as competing demands, but they are not competing demands, because clean water is part of sustainable food production.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am glad to see language in the Bill on the sustainability of the aquaculture sector, and I want to lean in a bit on that. Aquaculture pastimes have, perhaps, been underutilised, whether they relate to the angling fraternity or other river and water users.”
“Today, I want to talk about a very talented young girl from Lisburn called Freya Terris. Freya, who is 17 years old, attends Friends' School and studies the piano under former Lisburn resident Rory Dowse. Freya is an incredibly accomplished young pianist and has performed in the Ulster Hall.”
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“On that occasion, our votes could not change the law. By voting for the Bill before us today, we can take the first steps in the process of translating that vote into an actual change in law that is not imposed on us by Westminster but that we adopt for ourselves. <BR /> <BR />To conclude, I am delighted and honoured to be taking a stand with Heidi, Hannah and their families, and countless others like them, against disability discrimination. I will be voting in support of this important Bill and strongly urge others to do the same.”
“She just wants to be treated the same. <BR /> <BR />These are people whose lives and perception of self are profoundly impacted on by this law. Imagine if it were you or your son or daughter who was confronting the fact that, because of a diagnosis, viable human beings with the same condition would no longer be entitled to the same right to life as those without that condition. How would that make any of us feel? I use the word "diagnosis" very reluctantly, because Down's syndrome and conditions like it are not diseases. We need to see those people's ability, not focus on their so-called disability. <BR /> <BR />I remind the Assembly of the debate that we had here on 2 June 2020, when, in two separate votes, 75 out of the 90 Members made it clear that they did not support abortion on the grounds of non-fatal fetal disability.”
“I also remind Members of the words of Hannah Wilson, a young woman from County Fermanagh. She said:”
“If you have seen the videos and the singing, they are just marvellous. If you have not seen them, I ask you to look at them. <BR /> <BR />As has been pointed out by others today, the present law sends out the message that people with disabilities are less worthy of protection than those living without disabilities. Earlier, Paul Givan said that the current law tells those with disabilities that they are worth less, that their contribution is less valuable and that their lives are less valuable and less full. Is that really a message that we want to send out at the end of this day? For anyone who suggests that that is not the message that the law sends out, I remind them that, when asked about the current law, Heidi responded that allowing abortion up to birth on the basis of non-fatal disabilities:”
“It is not just a number; it is a life. <BR /> <BR />According to the 2018 national abortion statistics for England and Wales, there were 618 abortions on grounds of Down's syndrome. That figure, which is likely to be an underestimate, is far greater than the number of babies with Down's syndrome who were allowed to be born in 2018. When you look at the choice that is made — it is a difficult choice; it absolutely is — it is clear that we need to do more to support the mothers in that instance. The direction of travel is clear. <BR /> <BR />We also need to be very careful about the outdated stigma and stereotypes that a law like this could perpetuate. That was summed up best by Sara McNeill, mother to Tommy, a wonderful boy with Down's syndrome from Ballymena. Some Members will have seen him lately. She said:”
“In 2021, we should not permit laws like regulation 7(1)(b) to exist. We should remove them and support people like Heidi and their families. That is a point that most Members made. There is much work that we need to do to support those with disabilities and their families and allow them to enjoy their lives to the fullest. We should create a society that delights in them. That is the kind of society that I want to be part of. <BR /> <BR />The statistics from England and Wales that we have debated today are shocking and provide a worrying indication of how things are likely to develop in Northern Ireland if we do not amend the law. Some have referred to an indicative outcome of a 0·9% increase. When you look at the fact that there are upwards of 250,000 to 300,000 abortions a year, even 1% or 0·9% is an incredible number.”
“As the chairperson of the all-party group on disability, I believe that it is of fundamental importance for me and the Assembly to take a stand against disability discrimination. It is our responsibility to promote equality and ensure that people with disabilities, including babies, have their whole persons recognised and their capabilities and dignity respected. <BR /> <BR />If left unamended, the abortion regulations that were forced on us by Westminster last year will have devastating consequences — I have heard the word "devastating" used a number of times in the Chamber but not in relation to the devastating impact that abortion has on the unborn child — leaving our society bereft of diversity and the unique qualities that those with disabilities contribute. However, crucially, that is within the power of the Assembly to change.”
“I pass on my gratitude to and acknowledge the incredible work of Heidi Crowter, who will celebrate a very special day on 21 March. For Heidi to have the courage to advocate for the rights of those who, like her, have Down's syndrome but live in another part of the United Kingdom speaks of a great commitment and determination that we should honour and affirm. <BR /> <BR />The reality is that, unless the Bill passes, it is possible that, at some point in the future, we will be left in the very sad situation that there are no longer people like Heidi in our society. That, in my opinion, would be an absolute tragedy. It is clear that the Bill deals with disability discrimination. That is what a lot of the debate has missed; it is about one aspect of the legislation.”
“At the very start of my contribution, I take the opportunity to alert the Chamber to the fact that it is World Down Syndrome Day on 21 March — this Sunday. Unfortunately, we will not be in the position to light up the Building on the day or have a debate for those who have Down's syndrome, but I am sure that Members will join me in wishing all those with Down's syndrome a very special day on Sunday 21 March. <BR /> <BR />I am pleased to add my voice to those who have spoken strongly in support of the Bill that has been tabled by Mr Paul Givan from Lagan Valley. For the record, I am speaking on my own behalf, because abortion is a matter of conscience for the Ulster Unionist Party. I would like to echo the words of many, but not all, the Members who have spoken before me.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Minister, you may or may not be aware that eminent educational psychologists here in Northern Ireland and across the UK have called for the absolute need to integrate and assess our students before they return to full-time education. Will there be scope in your Department to meet any further funding bids that may be made from either Department in order to make sure that our kids get off to the best start post-COVID?”
“I thank the Minister for his announcement. A number of businesses missed out last year because of the complexity of the rating system, as a portion of their rates was determined as industrial derated or small business rates relief. Will those businesses be picked up by the grants this time around?”
“Will the Minister advise what collaboration she has had with the Minister of Education on efforts to address child poverty?”
“The costs of the Troubles-related permanent disablement payment have rocketed, as has been said. Will the Minister outline the assumptions that her office made to lead the Government Actuary's Department (GAD) to put an upper figure of £1·2 billion on the lifetime costs of the scheme?”
“The stories that emanated from Jimmy Spratt's life and which were shared at his funeral and by the First Minister, should give comfort to his family that his memory will be long held in high esteem right across Northern Ireland and the communities that we all represent. <BR /> <BR />Jimmy had a long battle with cancer. As the First Minister said, his death was not unexpected. However, every time, regardless of the house that we come from, a death like that is hard to take. Our thoughts and prayers are with Lynda and her four sons. Finally, it is incredibly comforting, if you have a faith, to know that, when someone passes, they have a future in Jesus.”
“It is a privilege to offer, on behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party, condolences to Jimmy Spratt's wider family and friends and his colleagues in the Democratic Unionist Party. I did not know Mr Spratt personally. However, I have heard many a testimony to Jimmy over the years since I entered politics. Every time, he was described, as Mr O'Dowd said, as straight and firm, proudly unionist but non-antagonistic, and someone who, perhaps, could be best described as a constituency politician. No greater tribute can be paid to a politician. <BR /> <BR />As someone who served for 20 years in the Prison Service and the Fire and Rescue Service, I want to pay a personal tribute to someone who followed that line of public service throughout their working life and worked for the betterment of the public.”
“I am thinking of landfill sites in the wider context — not just Mullaghglass — and their environmental impact. What is being done to protect our environment and modernise how we deal with such waste?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Will he outline the likely funding levels and any estimates that he has made for the Troubles permanent disablement payment scheme and what bids, if any, TEO or the Justice Ministry have made to his Department?”
“Surely, it is incumbent on each of us, as elected representatives of the Assembly, and our parties to uphold the democratic process, accuracy, openness and transparency, and I ask the Speaker's Office to investigate and rule on the matter.”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. You will know that the right to vote is a democratic right that is cherished and protected across the world and here in Northern Ireland. That right to vote is protected in legislation, as are the mechanisms to facilitate it and the absolute need to ensure that the register of voters is as up to date and accurate as possible. <BR /> <BR />Last week, Sinn Féin, a party in the Assembly that is led by the deputy First Minister, produced what I can describe only as a package of misinformation and fake news on the updating of the register that the Electoral Office for Northern Ireland will soon embark on.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer on a sector of our children who perhaps need additional resources. I am sure that the Minister will agree with me that looked-after children often require additional help, whether that is pre-COVID or through COVID. What additional measures have been put in place for those young people to ensure that they are not further disadvantaged?”
“I welcome the Minister to his new role. I know that he will do a good job in keeping the seat warm for Minister Poots. <BR /> <BR />Minister, a wildlife licence is required if one wants to disturb or remove protected wildlife for reasons of damage to agriculture, livestock and fisheries. How is the damage assessed and how many of these have been issued since January 2020?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer, in which she referred to her absolute commitment to improving road safety. The Minister will know that the A1, about which there was an announcement earlier this week, is a seriously dangerous road. I have lost friends and former colleagues to road accidents and attended many tragic incidents there. Will the Minister update us on the improvements that are coming to the A1 and give us a time frame for them?”
“— for being unable to complete a course. Thank you.”
“Yes, I am coming to it now, Mr Deputy Speaker. Last year, I think that 240 GCSE and A-level pupils were awarded a U grade. Minister, there are a few comments in your paper today that I hope will give some comfort to anyone who is engaged in any course this year, whether at GCSE or A level, that no U grades will be handed out this year. You said that no student should be penalised —”
“I hope that that is taken on board and that there will be a contingency and a better plan for next year's P7 group. Those three things could have been used for those P7s this year. <BR /> <BR />Of last year's GCSE and A-level pupils, I think that there were —.”
“I welcome the paper, albeit that we will have to look at the detail behind it, Minister. I am sure that it is a relief for you to be able to bring what may be some good news for teachers and students across Northern Ireland today. I have three points that I would like to draw out very briefly. First is the indemnity arrangements for schools; the second is on the centres being asked to use a range of evidence; and the third is on moderation between centre assessments in and across centres. <BR /> <BR />Minister, there are 16,000 P7 pupils who are in a similar position to A-level and GCSE students, and I believe that today's announcement on the process for the allocation of places in schools is deeply unfair to those 16,000 pupils.”
“Thank you, Minister, for your answer. I thank the Member who asked question. It is a perfect question and is on the issue that has probably caused me most pain during my time on the Education Committee. We have failed 16,000 pupils who, in good faith, were entered for the AQE and GL tests. Had the Minister had the courage, he would have got cross-party support, even from the parties that oppose academic selection, and could have used the coronavirus legislation. That being the case and the disappointment having been caused, what is the Minister doing for those in the P6 cohort, who face doing the exam in November, to protect their rights under the admissions criteria, which exist and have legislative power, to make sure that this debacle is not revisited in November 2021?”
“I will end by saying that I support the motion and make the offer to the Minister of a suggestion that might bring some resolution and comfort to those who need it.”
“I offer the Minister a solution today and suggest that we have a stand-alone, visible and accessible special schools champion who would operate from now through the remainder of this pandemic and post-COVID, because the reality is that the recovery phase for those pupils will be harder than for pupils in mainstream schools. Their difficulties are already compounded. <BR /> <BR />We often talk about mental health, and I am going to talk about it again. The mental health issues for children with a special educational need or a learning disability are often hidden, compounded and not talked about because they are not seen. The reality is that, through these lockdowns and restrictions, when children come out of their routine, those issues can be magnified greatly.”
“Yes, I agree, and I hope that the Minister will update us on that. There might have been a suggestion last week that there was £7 million of funding, but I agree that that money could and should have been made available. <BR /> <BR />There is an absolute need today, in real time, to monitor, liaise daily with stakeholders, and then review and improve everything that we do around COVID, especially where we seek to keep special schools open. That conversation needs to include the voices of teachers, bus drivers, classroom assistants and the healthcare staff who are involved in supporting those pupils.”
“We have heard from stakeholders, ranging from principals and teachers to parents and pupil advocates, who speak with an almost unilateral voice in saying that closing special schools would be more detrimental to children's physical, emotional, mental and societal health. It is absolutely imperative that every single mitigation and safety measure that can be implemented is implemented with haste.”
“Seven in 10 parents say that their child has difficulty understanding or completing schoolwork, and around half say that their child's progress is suffering. Collectively, we and parents would like to thank the teachers, support staff, drivers and all those involved in keeping our special schools open for the sterling effort that they are making in the face of one of the greatest crises that we have ever seen. <BR /> <BR />As I outlined at the start, the Education Committee has been collegiate on those issues, which is not easy, given that there is a five-party Executive that always find room to disagree on just about any anything.”
“I know that the Minister will indicate that it is a temporary move, but we all know that the reality is that the effects on those children will be longer-lasting than that temporary effect. <BR /> <BR />A recent report by the National Autistic Society (NAS) shows that 68% of family members say that their autistic child is anxious about the loss of their routine. It also shows that 65% could not do online work and that it has fallen to parents to homeschool in order to support their children's education, often whilst juggling work and other commitments. The report goes on to state that two in five parents and carers do not feel that they can adequately support their child with their educational needs.”
“They are asking us to step up and ensure that protection is there for them and that they are protected. <BR /> <BR />The temporary modification that the Minister brought into the provisions listed in Part II of the Education Order 1996 and in the Education (Special Educational Needs) Regulations 2005 removes the Education Authority's legal duty to ensure that children with the most complex needs receive the provisions set out in the statement. That has been said to have had the greatest impact on children with the highest level of need, who perhaps need that additional support the most. It goes against everything that we know and feel to be right as to how we support those children. COVID has not been fair to any of us, however, and it has not been fair to those children either.”
“I thank the Minister for joining us for what is a really important debate. I thank members of the Education Committee for agreeing to table the motion. It is one of the issues on which we on the Education Committee have been collegiate. There is real desire and heart among members to see those children who have a special educational need or a statement to be not just treated fairly but supported and resourced in whatever way they can. COVID has thrown quite a substantial obstacle in the way of that provision. The impact of the COVID-19 pandemic and measures taken to address it has been huge, particularly for children with a special educational need and their families. I am sure that, like me, many Members are deluged with emails from parents, teachers and bus drivers who are involved in supporting those children.”
“I thank the Minister for his words today. The Minister was absolutely resolute and honest in his admission many months ago that he would take help from wherever it needed to come and would seek help from wherever he could get it. Many people are struggling at the moment, Minister, whether through COVID-19 or through these red flags. However, the Executive have a role to play in protecting people. It is not just about intervention; it is also about prevention. This is now our second wave, and it is very serious. What advice, Minister, would you give to your Executive colleagues? Do you agree that the Executive need to be, in their COVID-response strategy, speaking with a single voice when it comes to adhering to restrictions and setting an example of the same to prevent a third incident like this?”
“I have been told that assaults are not being recorded in the manner in which they were when I worked there. I have been told, for instance, that, if someone empties a cup of urine on a prison officer, that is not counted as assault. Are we confident that, when we look at the reduction in assaults, we are talking about the same thing and that we are not looking at figures that might not mean what we think they mean?”
“I thank the Minister for bringing the report to us today. The review is, indeed, very positive, and I thank the team for its work on the review of support services for prison officers and those who are retired. <BR /> <BR />Minister, high sickness levels have been brought up on a number of occasions. I will also bring to your attention what I believe to be high rates of early retirement that are predominately due to mental ill health but that can also be related to stress and, sometimes, PTSD. I thank the Minister for her positive response to my first iteration of a private Member's Bill to help to tackle that. <BR /> <BR />Minister, I take issue with something in the report, and, hopefully, you can shed some light on it. It states that incidents of assault have recently gone down from 112 in 2014-15 to around 26 to 33.”
“I welcome the Minister back; it is good to see to see her in such good health. I thank your stand-in deputy, Carál Ní Chuilín. She was more than capable of doing the job. <BR /> <BR />Minister, you will note that the review recommendations on the special rules for terminal illness have been mentioned. They come further to the first review and to the cross-party support for scrapping the special rules. Can you provide an update on the Department's work in this respect?”
“I thank the Minister for her words of support for Prison Service staff and her recognition of how difficult a job it is. For the record, I again declare an interest in that I am a former prison officer. I thank Mr Lyttle for his work in bringing the review forward and Mr Beattie from my party. The collective work has been excellent and is well received by the Prison Service. Can the Minister give an idea of how many serving prison officers are receiving treatment for or are off work due to diagnosed mental health issues, given that that is one of the purposes of the review?”
“On that point about testing, does the Member agree that another question that primary schools will want to be answered is on whether they can open to provide help to children who may sit the test very soon?”
“What I would like to see is that the examination bodies do not test any of our pupils on anything that is learned at home and that everything that is tested is based on face-to-face teaching. I do not think that there is anybody in the House — the proposer of the motion covered this too — who does not desire to see our children in school, but we desire to see them in school safely. <BR /> <BR />On that, when the schools return in greater number post 11 January, can you give us confidence today that every mitigation that is possible can be put in place to keep our teachers safe and to give our pupils and parents confidence, with early indications of what they might be?”
“I thank the Minister. <BR /> <BR />I will spend my last minute and a half on the issue of blended and remote learning. I have had a real concern about it from the start because our teachers have not been instructed in how to use blended and remote learning. They do their very best, and there have been some fantastic examples of it. However, we have digital poverty across Northern Ireland. A mother got in touch with me yesterday. She has five children of school age. She does not have five computers or phones. She has limited broadband. We are agreed that face-to-face teaching is best. In that regard, Minister, has there been an assessment of the impact of remote and blended learning?”
“However, two-metre social distancing is even more difficult to maintain in those instances. COVID is a live threat, so we need to ensure that those who work in those environments are protected. <BR /> <BR />The other issue relates to mainstream schools. Further clarification is needed with regard to children who have been statemented and those who are vulnerable. It is my understanding that they will have places in mainstream schools. Can we get confirmation of those mainstream places for children who have statements and children who come under the description of "vulnerable"? Perhaps, the Minister will clear that up in his speech or an intervention.”
“Thank you. I thank the Member for his intervention. Perhaps, the Minister could respond to that. I hope that he does so in a positive manner. <BR /> <BR />There are still issues that we need to address. I will not waste any more time. I will just ask the Minister to address them. I have been inundated, as many Members will have been, because there are still uncertainties about the guidance that has been issued. I welcome the move for special schools. The Committee has met regularly about that sector and has a real passion to see it supported. With regard to special schools, what further mitigations can be put in place, especially around transport? As most of us will know, special schools are a challenging but worthwhile environment in which to work.”
“I welcomed it because we need to give that leverage and see that change come. To err is human; to forgive, divine: I hope that the Minister can take that in the manner in which it is meant.”
“<BR /> <BR />Everyone will remember January 2020, when the Assembly came back. Each of the bigger parties had a choice of Departments. The DUP picked Economy and Education, because it believed those to be its priorities. Sinn Féin picked Finance and Communities. The SDLP picked Infrastructure. The Ulster Unionist Party picked Health. I will not condemn any party for picking what it picked. Those were the parties' priorities. Those were the priorities for the DUP. I believe that the Minister may have got some things wrong during his tenure — I am sure that every Minister will have got some things wrong along the way — but what we need to do is ensure that we learn from them. I want to hear a commitment from the Minister at the end of this that he has listened and has looked at the motion, which I signed.”
“Some of them will have been proposed to him previously. We must understand that we are not working in normal circumstances. We talk about risk assessment, but we are actually in times of dynamic risk assessment, which is totally different from risk assessment. We have to make the decisions as best we can, as has been said by the Member across the Chamber, with the medical and scientific advice to hand, and that changes rapidly. I believe that the Minister was in communication with the Health Minister on that recently. We have to learn from those instances where we can give people that information more quickly, because public confidence is ebbing. We are all responsible — not just the Ministers — for managing that. We all need to be cognisant — I will say this in the spirit of the time of year — of the mental health of every Minister.”
“At the outset, I want, on the record — I am sure that you will join me — to wish all those involved in the education sector a happy new year. 2020 was a remarkable year that will go down in all our memories and history as one that was tough, regardless of where you sat, what you worked at or what you did. It will have a lasting impact on us all, not least on our mental health to a greater or lesser degree. It has had an impact on everyone in the education sector: students, pupils, teachers, principals, bus drivers and those who work to create school meals. That is why good planning is necessary. <BR /> <BR />It is good to be here. Sadly, I believe that the debate could have been avoided if we had had the news sooner. Nonetheless, the news is welcome. The steps that the Minister proposes are welcome.”
“I know that the Minister's heart is absolutely in getting people on bikes. Will she commit — I know that this is not her purview — to work with her Executive colleagues to ensure that there is no financial barrier to those who are disproportionately financially burdened in availing themselves of a bicycle to get them fit and tackle their mental health?”