Robbie Butler
Lagan Valley · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Officials highlighted that alignment was provided through existing EU-derived arrangements and that coherence with existing regulatory frameworks was identified as a main consideration.”
“I note that the Member for Strangford agrees: she understands the value of our fisheries in those areas. There are other complexities. The Isle of Man Government have now done a bit of a circle around that island, which makes it difficult for our fishers from Portavogie, Kilkeel and Portaferry to craft and graft a living from some of the…”
“The Committee took the opportunity to question officials on several issues and highlight matters warranting scrutiny at Committee Stage but was not limited to those areas.”
“As the Minister said, they have possibly been viewed as competing demands, but they are not competing demands, because clean water is part of sustainable food production.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am glad to see language in the Bill on the sustainability of the aquaculture sector, and I want to lean in a bit on that. Aquaculture pastimes have, perhaps, been underutilised, whether they relate to the angling fraternity or other river and water users.”
“Today, I want to talk about a very talented young girl from Lisburn called Freya Terris. Freya, who is 17 years old, attends Friends' School and studies the piano under former Lisburn resident Rory Dowse. Freya is an incredibly accomplished young pianist and has performed in the Ulster Hall.”
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“I thank the Minister for her statement. Minister, on excise fraud and organised crime, particularly in and around the border, you pointed to the cross-border "days of action", during which five arrests were made and €16,500 of cannabis, €4,000 of stolen property and 56,000 litres of illegal fuel were recovered. Was that a success, or is it just the tip of the iceberg? Will rising fuel prices and the fuel crisis give other opportunities to the criminals who operate in that area?”
“When the Bill receives Royal Assent, maybe one question will be this: how quickly can the Department get the information online for parents so that they can undertake whatever process is necessary to avail themselves of the provisions in the Bill?”
“It is West Tyrone. I do not even know where Strabane is, to be honest”
“West Tyrone, is it? It is not Fermanagh and South Tyrone.”
“On the point that the Member from South Tyrone has just shared —. Is it South Tyrone or West Tyrone?”
“It was very useful that the Minister tabled amendments at an earlier stage. That caused some work for her Department, but it is incredibly appreciated. As has been said, people like Alison McNulty, Belfast Mum and TinyLife, who for many years have been working with ourselves and yourself, Minister, can now breathe a sigh of relief, because today will be the day that they see the Bill going to print. <BR /> <BR />The Bill is very simple: three pages and four clauses, including the short title. Sometimes brevity is better with legislation, and enables it to be understood by the people who need to read it.”
“At the start of the Bill's passage, we all stood up and said that under normal circumstances we do not like to use accelerated passage. However, in instances like this, the proof is in the pudding, and it was right and proper to use it in this case. Thank you, Minister, for the amount of effort and work that you have put into this particular piece of legislation since you took over the portfolio, because it will make a difference to the lives of young people and parents. It has been a pleasure to work on and speak about the Bill. <BR /> <BR />My daughter, who is now 23, was five weeks premature. Thinking back to all those years ago, some of the difficulties that she had at the start may not have necessitated the need for a deferred school start, but the option will give comfort to children who need it and their parents.”
“My final tribute will, strangely, be to the brave people in Moscow and across Russia who have taken to the streets to protest against their leader in a country where, over all these years, doing that almost certainly ends in imprisonment or death. We also need to support those people.”
“The people from Ukraine who have settled in other parts of the world but are now travelling back to Ukraine to face up to the tyrant deserve our support. Let us depoliticise what we say in the Chamber and ensure that every message that we send offers hope and support, whatever that will be and by whatever means it happens, to ensure that the people of Ukraine remain free in their sovereign nation. <BR /> <BR />The difference between Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelenskyy is incredible to watch. One goes to the front line and provides leadership for his people and does not sit in his capital directing other people to their slaughter, including Russians and Russian soldiers. Many thousands of Russian soldiers will be killed in this senseless and needless battle.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is slightly disappointing that some of the commentary here today has been a little bit political and has not focused on the victims who are in fear and pain, this very day; not only those in Ukraine but those across the world who are connected to the families there. <BR /> <BR />I pay particular tribute to the people from Ukraine who have settled in Northern Ireland and spoke so bravely about their families in Ukraine who are living in fear. Those same families are standing up to a tyrant and giving an example to every one of us.”
“The one thing that we will be united on in the House is that we are saddened, worried and concerned about the innocent people in Ukraine who are under immense danger at the hand of tyranny. I do not want to reflect on Mr Putin to give him too much airtime or headspace. We have just gone past the centenary of the end of the First World War. We had the Second World War, and the reality, pain and ripples of that are still being felt throughout the world. The fact that, in 2022, someone is prepared not only to inflict pain on the Ukrainians but to make the threats that he has made over the past 48 hours, with his warnings to the rest of the world, forces each and every one of us to sit up and recognise the danger that still exists.”
“<BR /> <BR />Members, I commend the Commission's budget proposals for 2022-23, 2023-24 and 2024-25 to the House.”
“<BR /> <BR />For 2022-23, the capital plan includes the essential replacement of broadcasting infrastructure in rooms 21 and 29, the replacement of the video equipment in the Chamber, and the replacement of the building security system, Wi-Fi and corporate systems. The following year, further investment for the audio and video broadcasting systems in the Senate Chamber and audio infrastructure in the Chamber is planned. Finally, a desktop PC replacement programme and website redevelopment projects are planned for 2024-25. <BR /> <BR />On behalf of the Commission, I record my sincere thanks to the Assembly Commission staff for their very considerable efforts to facilitate the work of the Assembly in what has continued to be a challenging year.”
“All the highlighted categories of expenditure make up the total of £50·76 million for resource DEL expenditure for next year. <BR /> <BR />The Commission requires a significant capital investment programme over the next few years of £3·99 million in 2022-23, with a further £3·16 million in 2023-24 and just over £1 million for 2024-25. Some of the expenditure for 2022-23 relates to projects that were due to complete this year but will now complete next year. Much of that arose due to the difficulties in securing the services of external specialist support in Parliament Buildings as the residual impacts of COVID-19 remained.”
“The Assembly agreed the report's recommendations, including that £100,000 of additional funding should be made available to a party of 10 members that enters opposition. <BR /> <BR />The Commission is also reviewing the current FAPP scheme as the amounts payable have not changed since 2016. As FAPP is mainly used to fund party support staff and the rates have not changed since 2016, a 10% increase has been budgeted for in 2022-23, with a 2% increase in the subsequent years. Based on both those factors, the budget for FAPP for 2022-23 now stands at £988,000. <BR /> <BR />The penultimate category relates to depreciation charges, which are forecast to be £3·14 million for 2022-23 and to rise to £3·9 million in 2024-25. That is mostly made up of the depreciation charge on the value of Parliament Buildings.”
“<BR /> <BR />The next category is payments to parties under the financial assistance for political parties scheme 2016 (FAPP). Members will be aware of the work that was carried out by the Assembly and Executive Review Committee (AERC) to review the statement of entitlements for an official Opposition. The AERC reported on its findings on 9 November.”
“Assembly Members were surveyed to assess the demand for the service. The Assembly Commission agreed at its meeting on 9 February 2022 that the response indicated that there was political demand for the level of simultaneous interpretation set out in its initial budget plans. In line with the resolution of the Assembly, the provision will be reviewed six months after it has been implemented. <BR /> <BR />The Commission's administration costs are forecast to be £6·45 million in 2022-23, with a slight decrease in the following two years. Administration costs cover a wide range of expenditure items, including Committee expenses, building rates, utility costs, repairs, maintenance costs and third-party support for the business-critical IT systems such as broadcasting, catering and research.”
“Secretariat staff salary costs are forecast to be £21·74 million for next year, which is, in effect, a reduction on the forecast that was made for the current year, as there will be a reduction in staff as the legislative pressures at the end of the current Assembly mandate ease. <BR /> <BR />I want to spend a moment on the cost of staff to support the simultaneous interpretation of Assembly business in Irish and Ulster Scots, as the Audit Committee referred to it in the report. On 15 June 2021, the Assembly debated and approved a direction from the Assembly under section 40(5) of the Northern Ireland Act 1998. The Assembly resolved that it:”
“Members' other costs include winding-up expenses, resettlement expenses and any ill-health retirements that might occur. Next year will see a significant increase in those costs as a result of the Assembly election in May. Those costs are forecast to be £593,000 for 2022-23, falling to a more normal level of £88,000 and £90,000 for the following two years. <BR /> <BR />The third major category in the Commission's budget covers salary payments for secretariat staff and the administrative costs that are incurred to deliver the full range of services needed by the Assembly.”
“The amount that Members can recover to meet the costs of running a constituency office, including the cost of Members' support staff, is expected to total just under £11·5 million in 2022-23, rising to £11·75 million in 2024-25. The level of expenses recoverable for some constituency office running costs has not been changed since 2016, and the Commission proposes to publish a further determination in the new mandate to make a modest increase to them. The Commission also proposes to make additional constituency office staffing support available to Members who have a baby. Payments to Members in respect of travel costs are forecast to be £304,000 in 2022-23, reflecting a modest increase, as they have also not seen any increase since 2016.”
“<BR /> <BR />The second category — salaries and expenses paid to Members — covers a range of areas including Members' salaries, constituency office and support staff costs, Members' travel costs and other associated costs to Members. The salary that will be paid to Members, Ministers, Committee Chairs and Members of the Assembly Commission was set by the Independent Financial Review Panel (IFRP). The forecast for 2022-23 is £6·73 million, with an increase of £500 per Member for the final two years. The Commission has not made any attempt to predict how Members' salaries might be impacted by the formation of any future IFRP or a Members' remuneration board.”
“Turning to the figures in the Commission's draft budget for 2022-25, I will cover the next financial year in more detail and draw out any significant changes that are likely to arise in future years. For 2022-23, the total budget is £50·76 million and £3·9 million for capital expenditure. The first category that is included in the Commission's budget is income. Next year, the Commission expects to receive income of £684,000. Of that, approximately £604,000 relates to the recovery of the cost of ministerial salaries from Executive Departments. The remainder is in respect of staff who are expected to be seconded to other public-sector entities.”
“<BR /> <BR />The motion and the subsequent vote will allow the Assembly to determine the resources that the Commission needs to enable the Assembly to carry out its legislative functions. That agreed budget is then notified to the Department of Finance for inclusion in any Budget that is then presented by the Finance Minister. <BR /> <BR />The House will be aware that, on 15 February 2022, the Finance Minister made a statement about budgetary matters and the difficulties that recent political developments might cause for the preparation of the Executive's Budget plans. The Assembly Commission is not part of the Executive and must continue to plan for its activities for the three-year Budget period. That is not to ignore the wider situation but to recognise that the Assembly Commission has, indeed, a specific role to play.”
“The Assembly Commission develops a draft budget for each year to deliver all the services required by the Assembly. That draft budget is then scrutinised by the Audit Committee, including input from the Department of Finance to help to inform the Committee's scrutiny. <BR /> <BR />Members will be aware that a three-year Budget for 2022-25 was proposed as part of this Budget cycle. The Assembly Commission has prepared its budget plans on that basis, and the Audit Committee has scrutinised those three-year plans. The Audit Committee then reports to the Assembly on the Commission's draft budget. The Committee's report on the Commission's budget for 2022-25 was laid in the Business Office on 30 November 2021 and informs today's debate.”
“The Assembly Commission has a statutory duty under section 40 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 to:”
“We can all testify to seeing poor-quality homes across the private and social sectors, and it is imperative that we do all that we can to improve housing quality. We welcome the inclusion of the tenants' representative and tenants themselves on the list of consultees for both those areas. We will support all the amendments in the group.”
“I thank the Minister for tabling amendments Nos 25 to 38 to schedule 2. We welcome the move towards clearer and more robust requirements for energy efficiency and electrical safety in privately rented properties while recognising our climate responsibilities. It is, however, imperative that those standards be set at an appropriate and achievable level. Government support may be required to ensure that that can be achieved. <BR /> <BR />Private tenants deserve a home that is safe and adequately maintained to ensure that energy efficiency can be achieved. It is widely recognised that good-quality and energy-efficient homes will help in our fight to alleviate fuel poverty. They will also help tackle poor mental health in Northern Ireland.”
“Therefore, as a party, we call on the Minister to ensure that the necessary consultation is promptly carried out and taken forward early in the next mandate, perhaps. <BR /> <BR />We support amendment No 22, which adds a new clause, and amendment No 23. The new clause gives the power to introduce payment options for tenants following the consultation, if required. <BR /> <BR />Last but by no means least in group 1, we support amendment No 24, which ensures that the new notice to quit periods do not supersede the temporary coronavirus notice to quit periods until they cease.”
“However, we feel that, without wider consideration of what, if any, exemption may be required, we are unable to support those amendments. That position is supported by housing experts with whom we have engaged. The Department's response to the recent consultation that was carried out mid-Committee Stage, which also was not helpful, stated that:”
“It is a pragmatic amendment that will require three months' notice to be given to a tenant prior to a rent increase. However, further work needs to be undertaken in phase 2 of the reforms, with consideration being given to having a private rented housing panel, similar to that in Scotland, which would assess and adjudicate on the proportionality of rent increases. <BR /> <BR />We will not support amendment No 13. While we understand and appreciate the intent, we are concerned that it could have unintended consequences. Perhaps the Minister can look at financial support for those in the private rented sector separately. <BR /> <BR />Furthermore, we will not support amendment Nos 15, 16 and 19, which propose a change to the notice to quit (NTQ) period. We would have liked to be in a position to support an enhancement to the NTQ periods.”
“When you are only 5’ 8", you are generally pretty close to it anyway, to be fair. It is the likes of Gerry Carroll and Mark Durkan who usually need to get a wee bit closer. Wee shorties like me normally do not have that problem. <BR /> <BR />We support amendment Nos 1 to 12 in the name of the Minister, which create and deal with the requirement to provide a receipt for all cash payments that pertain to the tenancy. That was raised by several parties, including us, at the Second Stage debate, along with many stakeholders that work in the sector. <BR /> <BR />Furthermore, we will support amendment No 14, also in the name of the Minister, which increases the notification period to be given for a rent increase from two months to three and which, as highlighted, was proposed by the Minister at the Committee's request.”
“I welcome the opportunity on behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party to address the amendments in group 1, which relate to rent payments and notice to quit. We support amendment Nos 1 to 12 in the name of the Minister —”
“Out of everything that he has achieved in this mandate, this is the one that will affect the most lives, and it has secured cooperation at the level that we all like to see.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, you were picking on your party colleague there and not allowing me in. That will be noted, because I am the Chief Whip, by the way. <BR /> <BR />I spoke at reasonable length on this at Consideration Stage, so I do not intend to rehearse what I said then other than to say well done to the Minister and her team in the Department. Very often, we can be quite hard on the Department and the Minister with regard to politics and what we do, but this is a really good day, as I said during the debate at Consideration Stage. I look forward to the Bill passing this stage. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Committee Chair. He is outgoing and will not stand in the next election.”
“I know that, in itself, the Bill literally moves the powers and name of GTCNI within the provisions of a body, but in terms of the Department's ideas for the next phase, is it likely, now that GTCNI will be front-facing in primary legislation and captured there, that that is where it may be kept, or is it going to be resurrected as a body that will be reformed in the manner that it was and then taken out of the legislation at some time?”
“<BR /> <BR />The Minister has the Committee's support for the Bill's accelerated passage and its Second Stage. The Committee listened to a lot of evidence about GTCNI's poor performance and, from my recollection, a lot of it was cultural and relational and had gone beyond the point of being able to be fixed. Having been in special measures for some time, things were irretrievable. <BR /> <BR />While she has our support, will the Minister clarify something for me with regard to the intention of the Bill?”
“So many Members wanted to pay tribute yesterday to Christopher Stalford, the Minister's friend and party colleague, that I did not get a chance to do so. I will take a very brief moment, if I may, to put on record my sincere sympathy and regret on Christopher Stalford's passing and to echo the Minister's words. Fair play to every single Member who paid tribute to him across the House yesterday, because you gave the people of this country a little bit of hope and a little bit of insight into the relationships that exist here. As we know, Christopher was, indeed, a unique individual. He was certainly not grey, like the colour of his suits: he was one of the most engaging, charming, articulate and talented legislators that we have had here, and he will be missed forever by every single one of us.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He is absolutely right to be passionate about this. He mentions the impact of COVID. Does he also recognise the impact of not having a functioning Executive to introduce good legislation in the new mandate?”
“In conclusion, I welcome the Bill and the amendments proposed. I hope that it will provide some measures of help to reduce gambling-related harm through people-centric regulation and bring forward some much-needed regulation of the sector.”
“It is a crucial amendment, as we cannot overstate the need to ensure that, in every step of the process, we try to mitigate the damage caused by problem gambling.”
“I hope that that will be another mechanism with which to regulate and best ensure good practice in the industry, with a view to protecting end users in particular. I welcome that some judicial weight will be added to the code. However, without the inclusion of outcomes for a breach of the code, I fear that that will not be as robust as we would like it to be. <BR /> <BR />I also lend my support to amendment No 4 to clause 15, which is a step in the preferred direction and will, in essence, maintain a focus on a duty of care for end users.”
“Amendment No 2 will not be moved, so that messes up my words, Mr Durkan; I will have to leave out a paragraph. You have explained why, and I accept your rationale for that. However, we have to ask whether the levy went far enough and whether it was appropriate. Those are fair enough questions, and I look forward to the further deliberations and, hopefully, conversations in the Committee, which will be brought back to the Chamber. I ask that those conversations be fed through to Members. Chair, perhaps you could do that, because you attend the all-party group at times. That would be really useful. <BR /> <BR />Clause 15 deals with the code of practice, and I certainly welcome the inclusion of a code of practice for the industry.”
“That goes back to a point that perhaps has been raised already: it is not just the regulated establishments that we need to be conscious of. There are many forms of illegal and illicit gambling in Northern Ireland with considerable prizes at stake. Those, too, prey on people who have an addiction. We also know that, in a lot of areas, people do not have a lot of money. I want to find out whether, with the change to body corporates, any group or individual could avail of a permit without joint liability. I am sure that that is not the intention of the Bill, but we need to tie that down to get the definition right. <BR /> <BR />Clause 14 deals with the industry levy and is a crucial part of the legislation. An industry levy is much needed and will bring us more into line with the UK.”
“I hope that we can review and enhance the legislation accordingly in the coming mandate. <BR /> <BR />I want to focus on a few of the clauses and amendments. Clause 10 deals with permits. I draw Members' attention to that clause, which deals with the qualification of licences, certificates and permits. Clause 10(4) and (5) will amend the 1985 Order and limit permits, not to a registered company but to "a body corporate". Perhaps the Minister will explain what that means in her closing remarks, because it is not defined anywhere in the Bill. If it is, I certainly have not been able to find it. <BR /> <BR />I would like to think that one of the aims of the Bill is to enhance the regulation of and safeguards for the sector.”
“I certainly welcome the Bill as a means of updating our gambling and betting legislation, given that an update is long, long overdue. I would have liked the Bill to go further with additional safeguards and regulations, a more robust levy mechanism — as we heard, the amendment on that will not be moved — and some form of statutory commitment to naming the level of reduction in gambling-relating harm. Notwithstanding those points, the Bill is a step towards modernising, legislating for and regulating the sector in a progressive and meaningful way. The Bill should not and will not be seen as a final piece. It should be the start of serious engagement by this place with the sector and, in particular, with those who are impacted and harmed by problem gambling.”
“In Northern Ireland, not only do we suffer from a higher rate of gambling-related harm but the impact on individuals and families is significantly higher and has a greater singular impact. The all-party groups have met collegiately a number of times to discuss dual addiction, problem-related gambling, mental health and suicide prevention because of the commonalities in those areas. That is why the Bill is so important. As you know — if you did not know, you will be told again — I chair the all-party group on reducing harm related to gambling, and I have heard countless testimonies of just how destructive the problem can be on individuals and families. <BR /> <BR />It is in that context that I look at the contents of the Bill.”
“The result is that the potential harm in the sector and the societal impacts, as they are today, are not catered for or considered in a statutory manner. Sadly, there is no statutory regulation on many aspects of gambling and betting services in Northern Ireland, so I welcome the fact that the Bill will, in some way, bring in measures that we can implement to tackle that. <BR /> <BR />Gambling-related harm is of particular concern in Northern Ireland because of our society's unfortunate and, in many cases, unhealthy relationship with gambling. Northern Ireland has the worst rates of gambling on these islands, suffering from a rate of problem gambling that is three times that in the Republic and four times that in England.”
“A prime example of that is the fact that we have had no regulation of fixed-odds betting terminals, or, as they are known, FOBTs. Those machines have had a huge impact on the sector in recent years, and the Gambling Act 2005 does not apply to Northern Ireland, so there is a regulatory black hole in that area. If I am to criticise anything, it is that it is regrettable that the legislation before us does not address that key point. It is my hope, however, that the Assembly can look at that in this and, indeed, future mandates.”
“The reality is that the means and methods by which gambling is offered and partaken in have dramatically changed over those 40 years, and legislation, as has been pointed out, has not caught up in any meaningful way whatsoever. As the Member across the House pointed out — I do not want to keep pointing at him and making him feel good about himself — even the GB legislation is out of date, and MPs were not able to do what they wanted with that. That therefore puts us in a position in which we need to get the legislation absolutely right for Northern Ireland and for the people here who need legislation to prevent them from coming to harm. <BR /> <BR />The societal experiences of gambling and betting over the years, and how we have dealt with them, will be a point of record, because we are moving on.”
“It is more important that we get legislation right than rush legislation through. This is not just any legislation but good legislation that will impact on people's lives, so, although I possibly criticised the Minister or the Department — my apologies if I did — in the previous debate that we had on the Bill for perhaps not being ambitious enough, it is important that we get this Bill right. We have a chance to do so, and that applies to any legislation. That is just the way that it should be. <BR /> <BR />Our laws on gambling and betting are tremendously out of date, as has already been mentioned. The legislation in Northern Ireland is around 40 years old, which is just 10 years younger than me, so it is pretty grey.”