Robbie Butler
Lagan Valley · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Officials highlighted that alignment was provided through existing EU-derived arrangements and that coherence with existing regulatory frameworks was identified as a main consideration.”
“I note that the Member for Strangford agrees: she understands the value of our fisheries in those areas. There are other complexities. The Isle of Man Government have now done a bit of a circle around that island, which makes it difficult for our fishers from Portavogie, Kilkeel and Portaferry to craft and graft a living from some of the…”
“The Committee took the opportunity to question officials on several issues and highlight matters warranting scrutiny at Committee Stage but was not limited to those areas.”
“As the Minister said, they have possibly been viewed as competing demands, but they are not competing demands, because clean water is part of sustainable food production.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am glad to see language in the Bill on the sustainability of the aquaculture sector, and I want to lean in a bit on that. Aquaculture pastimes have, perhaps, been underutilised, whether they relate to the angling fraternity or other river and water users.”
“Today, I want to talk about a very talented young girl from Lisburn called Freya Terris. Freya, who is 17 years old, attends Friends' School and studies the piano under former Lisburn resident Rory Dowse. Freya is an incredibly accomplished young pianist and has performed in the Ulster Hall.”
The complete record
Every one of 2,636 lines we hold for Robbie Butler, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 24 of 53.
“The motion and the amendment recognise the significant environmental impact of disposable nappies and other absorbent hygiene products, which account for, as has been said, 4% our residual waste. There are key differences in each approach, but both have merit and deserve consideration. <BR /> <BR />The motion highlights the absence of proposals in the recent 'Rethinking Our Resources' consultation to tackle the issue and calls for a comprehensive strategy led by the Minister and developed in conjunction with councils to address collection and recycling. It also emphasises promoting reusable nappies to reduce waste. The amendment, while maintaining the emphasis on reducing waste, shifts the focus towards expanding guidance to councils within the existing framework of the consultation.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I will keep this as brief as I can, because you will get an extra minute. I recognise your point about Elephant in the Room. Obviously, we had Pure Mental NI, which was established, but, unfortunately, we have now lost it. There is an opportunity to recover it. In and around the education sector and early intervention is where we could see real transformation in the future. Does the Member agree?”
“<BR /> <BR />Places like the Prison Service, which I spoke about yesterday, are highly charged atmospheres in which to work. The mental pressure and distress that those women and men come under is not recognised in the Civil Service code of conduct. The sickness policies are not fit for purpose, and we need to see changes to address the reality of the mental health struggle for people across Northern Ireland.”
“However, the men involved in such behaviour are not real men. Real men struggle, cry and reach out, but the world tells them to, "Man up. Pull yourself together. Catch yourself on". Those are all slurs and derogatory remarks that stop men from reaching out for help when they need it. <BR /> <BR />There is unintended discrimination in pregnancy that Órlaithí will know about very well. Sometimes women face the greatest threat to their mental health during pregnancy. About 20% of women suffer from perinatal mental health issues. Sometimes they are not asked the right questions by professionals because everything centres on the baby. We know that pregnancy is a precious time, but are the right questions being asked, even in the professional sphere? I wish that they had much more time.”
“I speak to young people from the disability community, and the biggest threat that they face is not the facilitation of their disability but the discrimination that they experience, which is probably sometimes unintentional. That has a real impact on their mental health. Take alcoholics and drug addicts: the use of language about the people in that comorbid space is disgusting. It fries my head at times to see people who should know better descending into a space where they should not be, which compounds the difficulty that the addicts find themselves in. <BR /> <BR />I will pitch for men today, because, of every five suicides, four are men. Some people do not know that. Men rightly come under a lot of pressure, and they should be called into question, particularly on the issue of violence against women and girls.”
“We have to take the lead consistently and demonstrate that by example in every debate. We can be robust and hold one another to account, but, if we label, sling mud and call one another things, we are hypocrites when we tell everybody else to do something different. That is just the way that it is. I thank, again, the proposer of the motion for recognising that my leader, Mike Nesbitt, the Health Minister, can probably legitimately lay claim to being the politician who has driven the topic of mental health in this arena. <BR /> <BR />I will not reiterate the brilliant words that have been used so far on tackling the stigma, but I want to address something that Órlaithí picked up on: the unintended although maybe not malicious stuff. I know that it exists because I chair the all-party group on disability.”
“I hope that, in my time and before I leave here, if there can be a legacy from the Assembly, I will be able to say not that I can put my name on that but that I was part of transforming the face of mental health in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />Mental health problems exist for a multiplicity of reasons. We cannot neglect the fact that we have a past — the Troubles — and high levels of poverty and political disengagement. Until we, as people with the power to make change, learn that all those things play a part to the detriment of people's lives, we consign future generations to more of the same. We need to take the lead. We need to be careful with our language; I agree with Danny Donnelly, who has a professional background in the field as a mental health nurse.”
“I thank the Members from Sinn Féin who tabled the motion, particularly Órlaithí Flynn from West Belfast. Órlaithí is one of those visible and consistent champions who speak about mental health and suicide prevention. I have worked with Órlaithí probably since we became MLAs, and we cross-pollinate on many all-party groups (APGs) with that interest at heart. <BR /> <BR />In 2025, it is really good to hear collectively from the parties here — some of the independents will hopefully partake in the debate shortly — that we are facing in the same direction. The starting point is for everybody to recognise that the Assembly is limited, as every legislature in the world is limited, in what it can and will deliver, but the fact remains that we have to deliver as much as we can on the promises that we make.”
“When we think about improving the access to mental health services and what we do in our partnership approach, we need to look at everything else that we do, including housing, education and job opportunities. There is little point and less value in fixing the problem in one place if we do not ensure that all the structures that young people are moving into in the world recognise and speak the language that they speak and portray things in the manner in which they see them. We all have a role to play in making this place a much easier, better and more prosperous place to live for those who have disabilities, both seen and unseen.”
“Our job is to represent those who are most affected and bring everyone together into a single train of thought so that we can see real change. That will be a challenge. <BR /> <BR />I pay tribute to some of the other fabulous work that is going on. Autism NI has been spearheading the APG tremendously and needs to be commended for its tireless advocacy. Eden Consultancy — I do not know whether Members know of it — also deserves recognition for its work. There are some people out there doing amazing stuff, and I hear testimony from my constituents about their impact on the lives of young people. <BR /> <BR />I am going to finish with this point.”
“There is experience there that needs to be harnessed and harvested, and that hard, raw experience needs to be fed in for us to mature into the solutions that need to be found. We need the voices of the parents, brothers and sisters who have travelled this path, at great cost to themselves, to ensure that Julia's ambition is fulfilled, lives are saved and services are better for people with autism. <BR /> <BR />Working with the community and voluntary sector and families, we can achieve much more, but we need not be fixed in a totally medicalised response. Even in the medical fraternity, when we are being honest, not all the professionals agree on how we go about this. I have been involved in conversations with psychiatrists, psychologists and mental health nurses who have different opinions.”
“Members rightly point out that part of the solution may not look like a mainstream methodology, because it will be a bit different. One of the most powerful events that I have attended, as mental health spokesperson for the Ulster Unionist Party, took place a couple of years ago in the Seagoe Hotel in Portadown. There was a mother there called Julia McKeever, who started a charity called the Autism Hive in response to the loss of her son, Luke. I noticed that she paid tribute to her son on Facebook to mark her third Christmas without him. Luke was an adult, and his life ended much too soon. Along with many other fabulous organisations — the mental health champion attended that event too — Julia brought out the fact that there is expertise within our families.”
“We will support the motion, but everybody knows the context in which the Minister is operating, with constrained budgets. Nobody in the Chamber would stand up and say that mental health is not a priority, not just for the Ulster Unionist Party but for Mike Nesbitt, the Minister, because it was under Mike's leadership, many years ago, that my party led the charge on mental health, mainstreamed it as a conversation piece and then, working with other MLAs, identified the different communities that are disproportionately affected. <BR /> <BR />A lot of the chat has focused, not necessarily deliberately, on the medicalised mental health treatment of people with autism. I want to read into the record the need to recognise how vital the input of families, friends and the community and voluntary sector will be to what the solution looks like.”
“I commend all the contributions so far. This has been an excellent debate. I pay tribute to Cathal Boylan MLA and Pam Cameron MLA. Since I became an MLA in 2016, I have had the privilege of being a member of the all-party group on autism, with those two individuals and a series of MLAs, some of whom have come and gone. Some have stayed the course, and others have left due to competing demands. Everybody who has played a part in that APG has had a heart for the transformation of the lives of the people who are affected. However, it is not just the individuals who have autism who are affected: the families of those people will try to support them throughout their lives with the help of medical professionals. That is the point that I want to home in on.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. We cannot respond to an amendment that was not selected. If it was not accepted, it was not accepted because it was outwith the scope and capacity of the motion. That probably demonstrates that the Member is right. <BR /> <BR />I will end now, because my 10 minutes are up. We know what way the votes will go, but the discussion will not disappear.”
“We need to stop labelling one another, guys. That would be a start to this. If we cannot stop labelling one another, we will not move out of the cul-de-sac that we are in. <BR /> <BR />I will finish with this: the party to my left can say that the motion is not right and that it would not work. What is there at the moment will not work. It is not protecting —.”
“It is all on the record, and people can play the recording back and watch it. The Minister talked about my chuntering and tutting: there is no party in the Chamber that does more chuntering and tutting than the party to my left. To be honest, I know no other Minister who does it as much. <BR /> <BR />That being the case, this is a serious debate. I hope that, after the votes, we can calm our jets, because this is a discussion that needs to be had. It needs to be had, because I know of no woman — no woman in my whole circle of life — who agrees with the position that the Minister advocates. They find it difficult to do so. Members are rolling their eyes. I understand that there are women's organisations that support trans women being in women's prisons, but there are other women's organisations, which I have met, that do not.”
“He is not here for this part of the debate. <BR /> <BR />I move on to Gerry Carroll. My goodness, he may as well join the Alliance Party. I like Gerry quite a lot, but, unfortunately, he brings nothing to these debates. He comes in and does not listen; he just comes in to talk. He is not prepared to have a debate or to listen. He comes in and just labels, but there you go. <BR /> <BR />We then heard from the independent Member, Claire Sugden. Claire was trying to sit on the fence a bit, but, as a former Justice Minister, she made some good points. To be honest, I got a bit mixed up, because I am not sure how she can be sympathetic to biological sex yet not support the motion.”
“I was pretty sure about where Maurice Bradley was going to come from, but I will be honest and give him credit. He did not descend into a culture war. He did not descend into finger-pointing or accusing anybody of anything. He made it a useful debate. <BR /> <BR />I am sorry, but I cannot extend to Paula Bradshaw what I said to Connie, because she started off, as her Minister did, by labelling my party and me in a certain way. We are not wearing it; it is as simple as that. I worked in the women's prison at Maghaberry when it was there, putting my life at risk, and I understand the regime differences. We need to tease out lots of stuff, but, given the nature of the response from the Minister, the Chamber is not the place in which to do it. <BR /> <BR />Stephen Dunne homed in on the need to safeguard all spaces.”
“I move on to Matthew O'Toole, the leader of the Opposition. We know the SDLP's position on these matters, but I thought that Matthew's was probably one of the best and most measured contributions, because he is willing to have a debate without labelling anybody, and that is important.”
“That is something that we need to face into and on which I hope all parties can agree. Maybe there will be a debate on that, and we will then see Sinn Féin's money. <BR /> <BR />I am not going to be cross with Connie Egan at all because I thought that her input was quite reasonable and measured. Connie, I hope that that does not get you into any trouble with your party.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am sorry, Mr Gaston, but you sought to take out the LGBT bit in the motion, which was really important, because the LGBT community suffers from higher levels of mental health issues and discrimination. That is not the case in this instance, but the fact that your amendment seeks to take out the reference to the LGBT community means that we will not be supporting it. <BR /> <BR />Deirdre Hargey from South Belfast accused my party of grandstanding. Let me tell you this: in the prison system in 2024, we have segregated prisoner regimes. We still have paramilitaries and people from proscribed organisations in separated regimes because that is what they want. For too long, we have had a hierarchy here, where victims and perpetrators of crime are treated differently to people who come from proscribed organisations.”
“That is what is wrong. It was OK for her to label everybody else for not giving way, but it was hypocrisy to then not give way herself, which is what a lot of the debate centres on. <BR /> <BR />I am at the five-minute mark, so I am just going to very quickly reference what a few Members said. My party colleague Doug Beattie compassionately read a perspective into the record. Many do not share that perspective — I get that — but he did not diminish anybody's rights. Rights are funny things, guys. We all know that. They do not sit in isolation: they come with responsibilities. Having rights without responsibilities is anarchy, because then you are in the space of competing rights. That is where we are. That is why we need to stand up and assess the responsibilities in this area. That needs to be taken into consideration.”
“Mr Speaker, she did not do me the same courtesy, and then —.”
“No. I will not, because you did not do me the same courtesy.”
“I stood here and spoke about it from the perspective of the staff who put their lives on the line to protect and save people and, by the way, never get recognised for doing so. <BR /> <BR />I will move back to the motion. It is OK to have a difference of opinion. We have to be able to come into the Chamber and use appropriate language and not pigeonhole people as transphobic or misogynistic. I am not going to call anybody —.”
“Absolutely not. The Member for South Belfast knows that I would not do that. I rate her very highly but she is not right about this debate. Some of the contributions may not have been helpful and strayed into other areas where language is really important, so I will give her that. However, most of the contributions were reasonably sensible. <BR /> <BR />I am going to be honest: I was very disappointed with the Minister's contribution. She is a formidable politician, a really good public speaker and passionate about many things, but she is wrong on this. She claimed that the Chamber has not debated prisoner welfare and safety. Actually, as far back as when Eamonn McCann from People Before Profit was here, we discussed inmate deaths in the Chamber. We absolutely did.”
“I give way to the Member for South Belfast.”
“That is a lady in Lagan Valley. It is not a man: it is not Robbie Butler. It is a lady who is speaking up for herself and her wife. She has a position on the issue and has every right to speak in this debate. Anybody who says that the motion came from a misogynistic or transphobic position misses the whole point of the debate. You can critique the motion and say that it is not very good, but it is reasonable to have the debate.”
“She goes on to make various points about this debate. She says:”
“What we do here is really important, but let me make this clear: over the decades, for many and varied reasons, prison officers in this country have worked under huge pressure and at huge risk. They get up under risk every day and go to work to protect themselves, each other and the inmates, regardless of where they are from. Some contributions, although certainly not those from Doug Beattie or other Ulster Unionist Party Members, prevented an opening up of the debate sadly. We could have done that and talked honestly about the thoughts and feelings of people across this country. <BR /> <BR />I am going to read something out. There is no name on it; I am not putting a name to it. A lady sent me an email over the weekend from my constituency, Lagan Valley. She asked me to speak in this debate, stating:”
“<BR /> <BR />Let me put this on the record very clearly at the start: no one will stand in the Chamber and be more passionate than me in talking about what it is like to work as a prison officer in the Prison Service and about what it is like to administer the policies and regulations created by the legislation that this place makes. I served in the Prison Service from 1996 until 2000, working under immense pressure. Most contributors spoke very kindly of prison officers. You have to remember that they have no say in the rules and regulations that are made. Indeed, the very fact that they work in a prison probably curtails their being stakeholders in any design of or consultation on what we do here.”
“It might not take 10 minutes. <BR /> <BR />I spent time over the weekend thinking about what I might capture and cover in the debate. That has been clouded, and rightly so, by the need to ensure that the language that we use in the Chamber is —. I am conscious that it is a controversial topic to debate. It matters to a lot of people. However, what we have seen, particularly from the Justice Minister, is an ideological politicisation of a topic that some people — not just politicians, but people from my constituency and from women's groups who have contacted me and who I have spent time with —.”
“I thank the First Minister for her further confirmation of the Executive Office's ambition on this. The inauguration of President Trump at 12.00 noon today offers a new dispensation with the American Government. We had some great performance from Joe Kennedy as the former Northern Ireland trade envoy. Will the First Minister give a commitment that the Executive Office will work proactively with President Trump to ensure that a special Northern Ireland envoy is in position as soon as possible, not in the last six months of his mandate as previously, and to seek the delivery of transatlantic routes and, indeed, pre-clearance at Belfast International?”
“Thank you, Principal Deputy Speaker. The winding-up speech will be just like me — short. I thank the Deputy Chair and the Minister for his response. To pick up on a point that he raised: the Committee will absolutely give a commitment that if we can come to a position on the Bill in the shortest time possible, we will, but it would be remiss of us not to offer it the highest levels of scrutiny. Although the Committee absolutely had an interest in the Bill, certain parts of last week's RaISe presentation piqued its interest even more, and those are worthy of further development. The relationship between the Minister and the Committee so far has been good and constructive, and I hope that we can maintain that during the passage of the Bill. Thank you.”
“We know that one of the considerations was to include the proposals in this Bill in a broader agriculture Bill, so we wish to hear views on whether we are putting the cart before the horse and whether it is valid to do so in advance of a wider Bill in the manner that is proposed in this Bill. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, having consulted the Bill Office and considered the evidence that we wish to take and our ongoing work, the Committee is seeking the support of the House to extend the Committee Stage of the Agriculture Bill to 23 May 2025, albeit the Committee will endeavour to report in advance of that date if at all possible.”
“In budget-constrained times, we have all had experience of discretionary spend being what is described as "low-hanging fruit". We also wish to scrutinise the enabling power to amend the legislation to align with future farming policy and post-EU exit policy, which are still under the development of our Minister. We know that those powers would allow for Northern Ireland-specific schemes, but we see much broader sectoral producer organisation coverage in England and Scotland, and there is work to be done to understand why we have not had that uptake here in Northern Ireland.”
“At this stage, the Committee has a live Citizen Space survey, which will not close until mid-February, and is inviting around 14 organisations from the mushroom, fruit and veg and environmental sectors to give evidence. <BR /> <BR />The Committee wishes to give the focused issues and wider impact of the Bill due diligence and scrutiny while keeping its important scrutiny of statutory rules, common frameworks and agriculture, environment and fishing policy moving forward. The Committee is also aware of the need to provide sufficient time for deliberations and to allow time for the potential overlapping of a second Bill in the not-too-distant future. <BR /> <BR />The Committee wishes to scrutinise making the FVAS discretionary.”
“Officials then confirmed that the Bill amends the legislation governing FVAS to make support under that legislation discretionary, that it confers the power to make modifications to that legislation and that it provides a power to modify the legislation governing promotional schemes for agricultural products. <BR /> <BR />The Committee heard from the Research and Information Service (RaISe) on 16 January, which was last week, with a briefing on the RaISe Agriculture Bill research paper. RaISe highlighted a number of pertinent queries and issues that the Committee will want to pursue in detail with external witnesses and departmental officials. Those include the specific impact on the mushroom sector and the fact that the Bill was introduced before the completion of reviews into post-EU agriculture support.”
“At that meeting, we also heard from a mushroom producer organisation and Commercial Mushroom Growers UK, which highlighted the benefits of the current FVAS as it gives certainty for long-term planning. <BR /> <BR />Even at that early stage, the Committee recognised that, although a short Bill had been proposed, there would be considerable scrutiny to do. The Department's consultation had limited responses and revealed mixed views on the proposal that FVAS support would become discretionary. However, there was support for the need for DAERA to have a power to provide for the development of policy. <BR /> <BR />The Bill was not introduced until 25 November 2024, and Committee Stage commenced on 4 December. We started our scrutiny on 12 December with a briefing from the agri-food legislation branch.”
“Thank you, Principal Deputy Speaker. On behalf of the AERA Committee, I request an extension to the Committee Stage of the Agriculture Bill to 23 May 2025. The motion was agreed after discussions in Committee on 12 December 2024. The Committee first heard of the proposed content of the Bill on 20 June, when officials briefed us on the outcome of the consultation that ran from 3 April to 27 May. We were informed that the Bill would have a narrow focus on directly amending assimilated law governing the legacy EU fruit and vegetables aid scheme (FVAS) and provide scope for DAERA to further amend the legislation that covers that scheme and another legacy EU scheme for agri-food information and promotion.”
“Let us face it: we have all been there, staring at a teabag wondering whether it is safe to reuse. That is just an analogy for what our problems sometimes look like. This is not about being perfect or having all the answers; it is about showing up for one another. The Samaritans know that better than anyone, and they offer a listening ear 24/7, 365 days a year with no judgement and no rush. Let us make Brew Monday a reminder that life might not come with a manual, but it does come with tea, and, sometimes, it is good to share it.”
“Members, today, I ask you to join me in helping to flip Blue Monday on its head by working with the Samaritans to rebrand it Brew Monday, a day not for misery but for mugs, chats and connecting over a good old-fashioned cup of tea, however you drink it. I know that many will rightly ask this question: "Can a cup of tea really fix all the problems in my life?" Probably not, but it is a great start. After all, nobody ever solved life's big questions with an empty mug in their hand. <BR /> <BR />Brew Monday is about taking time to talk and, more importantly, taking time to listen. The Samaritans — those incredible lifesavers who sit with headsets on — remind us that sometimes the greatest gift that we can give is not advice but a few moments of our time and the comfort of our presence.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Minister for a very detailed answer. He will be aware that politicians can make false promises. That leads me to the Labour Government, particularly in regard to farming and agriculture. Our farming families and agriculture sector were hit with a double whammy of unfulfilled promises by the Labour Government last year. What assurance can the Minister give to the farming and agri-sector about its voice in the creation of and outcomes for a just transition commission, given that farmers and the agriculture sector probably face some of the biggest challenges when it comes to helping us achieve net zero?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer and for breaking it down into a percentage. The Minister will be aware that the disabled community makes up around 25% of the population of Northern Ireland and that that community is woefully under-represented in all workplaces, not just in our Departments and the Civil Service. Is the Minister taking any specific action in her Department to increase the opportunities for people with disabilities to work in the Department of Justice?”
“I commend the Minister for again making sure that SEN is to the fore of his change agenda. In your statement, Minister, you used the formal GCSE qualification as a metric for bringing about change, yet the independent review of education suggests that GCSEs are not a useful terminal exam. Are we not in danger of pushing children into fitting into a format that facilitates industry when, perhaps, we should adjust industry to suit the children who are coming into adulthood?”
“We have seen absolutely fantastic representation from David Blevins of Sky News and Emma Vardy of the BBC, who have, in the midst of the unfolding tragedy, been giving us accurate, truthful and up-to-date information. I am sure that Members will join me in passing on our thoughts to the people of LA. If there is any support that we can give, I am sure that we will give it.”
“Wildfires are a very real and present everyday danger that they face and they do so on a much greater scale than we do. I noticed today that the local government there have talked about easing the bureaucratic burden on building back. That is welcome, but I warn that their standards for house construction and their attitudes to fire safety are not like ours. I hope that, if there is a role that we can play in Northern Ireland, where we have perhaps one of the best fire and rescue services in the world and really good construction regulations, we can do so. <BR /> <BR />I will end by, unusually, paying tribute to two members of our media. The media give us a rap on a daily basis, which is quite right.”
“I do not know what the investigation will pull out as to the cause, but there is no doubt that the tinder-dry area that it is, the heat and the winds that people are talking about will have played a part. <BR /> <BR />I want us to turn our minds to the people who step up to the mark in instances such as this. First, obviously — you know that I will make no apology for this — I pay credit to front-line fire and rescue personnel who step up and, at great risk to themselves, step in to evacuate and protect property and lead people to safety. At great risk, they have spent days away from their families. <BR /> <BR />I had the pleasure of being with the fire service in LA a number of years ago, on the fire engines, or fire trucks, as they are called over there, in Fresno, California.”
“Our newsfeeds are filled with the unfolding international tragedy of the wildfires in Los Angeles that, we have been told today, have claimed 24 lives. Tragically, that count may still escalate. The count of 24 deaths does not paint a picture of the full devastation that is unfolding in that region. It is one of the wealthiest and most highly and densely populated areas in the world, so you would think that the fire safety standards and attitudes to such things there would mean that people live in absolute safety. <BR /> <BR />I take the opportunity — I am sure that Members will join me — to send a message of not just sympathy and awareness but support to all those who have been affected.”