Robbie Butler
Lagan Valley · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Officials highlighted that alignment was provided through existing EU-derived arrangements and that coherence with existing regulatory frameworks was identified as a main consideration.”
“I note that the Member for Strangford agrees: she understands the value of our fisheries in those areas. There are other complexities. The Isle of Man Government have now done a bit of a circle around that island, which makes it difficult for our fishers from Portavogie, Kilkeel and Portaferry to craft and graft a living from some of the…”
“The Committee took the opportunity to question officials on several issues and highlight matters warranting scrutiny at Committee Stage but was not limited to those areas.”
“As the Minister said, they have possibly been viewed as competing demands, but they are not competing demands, because clean water is part of sustainable food production.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am glad to see language in the Bill on the sustainability of the aquaculture sector, and I want to lean in a bit on that. Aquaculture pastimes have, perhaps, been underutilised, whether they relate to the angling fraternity or other river and water users.”
“Today, I want to talk about a very talented young girl from Lisburn called Freya Terris. Freya, who is 17 years old, attends Friends' School and studies the piano under former Lisburn resident Rory Dowse. Freya is an incredibly accomplished young pianist and has performed in the Ulster Hall.”
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“We have non-sitting MPs, and, when we are not sitting here, it is as good as non-sitting MLAs, because there is no voice for the sector. <BR /> <BR />I hope that the Minister will speak to this, because it is right and proper. We have talked about food security in the last number of weeks, particularly in and around the agricultural space. We will be talking about horticulture in the Committee shortly and fisheries; they are intrinsically linked. There is a food security circle, and fisheries are absolutely part of that, even more so because, let us face it, fish is good for you. There is more that we can do to encourage people to eat fish, and we should. However, to do that, we will have to ensure that that food security is part of what we are talking about here today and in the Committee and is part of the Minister's ambition.”
“There are quite a few pressures facing our industry at the moment. They have been named, but I will go over them just to reinforce my position, as Chair of the AERA Committee, that we are here, we are listening and we will ensure that this is tabled back through the Committee. The first issue is the skilled worker visas. I thank Members from that Committee — some of them are here today — who have reinforced that issue. It is a significant issue, and we have the same issue with mushroom pickers. Particularly with seasonal workers in fisheries, it is a damning indictment that we cannot, because it is a reserved matter, action that. I will also point to political failure, because that is another example of how, when this place is not working properly, we do not have the vires to even lobby effectively at Westminster.”
“It is an industry like no other, and I am sure that, like me, you probably watched the programmes about the job that they do when they go out in their boats into the treacherous deep waters, sometimes at night and often overnight. It is a really dangerous job, but it is a job that many people take for granted, because we see our fish in the shop and sometimes do not even know where it has come from. Those people, who genuinely risk life and limb to provide really good food on our tables, deserve not just our words but our actions.”
“A theme that ran throughout the factory floor was the generosity of everybody who worked there, and Mr Cochrane in particular. That busload of young children left the fish hall with a bit of an education, bags of fish and memories that would last a lifetime. <BR /> <BR />When I looked through what had happened in the intervening period, I was sad to see that Angus Cochrane's factory had to close in the 2000s. The challenges that our fisheries sector faces are not new.”
“I thank the Member for South Down for securing this important Adjournment debate. I will start with some slightly different words. I am sure that Members can think of childhood memories. I will recall one of mine, because it provides important context as to why I want to speak on this issue. In 1982, I was in P7. My school trip was one of the only holidays that I got. That year, the school trip happened to be to Ardglass. A class of P7s stayed in a school somewhere there. We bunked down. I have very little memory of it, apart from it being a lovely, quaint little village. One other thing stood out: a visit to Angus Cochrane's fishery. It was incredible. What an experience for a child to go into a fish hall bustling with workers shifting crates of fish, ice and all sorts of things.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. I want to give the Minister, maybe, a part of the solution. Some of the sports have been removed because it is now a compacted arrangement. Hockey is, unfortunately, missing out. Northern Ireland has some fantastic hockey pitches and facilities, particularly in my constituency of Lagan Valley with Lisnagarvey, South Antrim and Banbridge hockey clubs, to name just a few. Will the Minister give a commitment to offer that to the Commonwealth Games group and maybe bring hockey as part of the Commonwealth Games in 2026 to Northern Ireland?”
“I will stay away from flags. You have answered that one.”
“Therefore, in conclusion, the Committee agreed to recommend that the draft Greenhouse Gas Emissions Trading Scheme (Amendment) (No. 2) Order 2024 be approved by the Assembly.”
“Officials confirmed that paragraph 2(1)(b) of schedule 1 to the Greenhouse Gas Emissions Trading Scheme Order 2020 specifies that military flights are excluded from the scheme. Officials also confirmed that there will be no change to the position with respect to free allocations for Northern Ireland-registered aircraft operators, as the deadline for airline operators to submit applications for free allocations for the 2021 to 2025 period was 31 March 2021, and both airline operators that are currently registered here — Aer Lingus UK Limited and Emerald Airlines UK Limited — registered after that date. <BR /> <BR />Overall, the Committee was content that the amendments are mainly of a technical and operational nature and that the Order does not extend the scope of the scheme to additional industrial sectors.”
“It noted that flights from Northern Ireland to Switzerland are now within the scope of the scheme and that there is an allowance for installations that carry out a registered activity but also store to be eligible for free allocation for those emissions that are not captured. There are no such installations here at present. The Committee further queried whether there were any military flight exemptions, because aviation operators, as well as stationary installations, have to continually monitor their emissions. We also queried whether the current situation, in which no aviation operators that are registered in Northern Ireland are in receipt of free allocation, was likely to change. <BR /> <BR />The Committee received a response to those queries in the past few days, and I would like to make the House aware of its content.”
“That pot could, for example, be used for future market stability purposes. We were also told that the amendments aim to extend to Northern Ireland the UK ETS technical amendments that were implemented in GB when the Assembly was not sitting; extend the scope of the scheme to include flights from Northern Ireland to Switzerland; expand the scope of the scheme to include CO2 venting process emissions from the upstream oil and gas sector, although that does not affect any Northern Ireland installations at present; and introduce a civil penalty for a failure to submit information to regulators and a deficit notice for instances in which participants fail to surrender sufficient allowances by the deadline. The Minister has already outlined some of that. <BR /> <BR />The Committee queried the impact of the amendments on Northern Ireland.”
“On 7 November, the Committee took an oral briefing on the SI to further understand the proposed amendments. Officials highlighted the fact that the UK ETS, established in January 2021, is designed to be more ambitious than the EU scheme and that it is an effective decarbonisation scheme, with the aim of promoting carbon emissions reduction and incentivising participants to invest in clean, low-carbon technologies. <BR /> <BR />Officials then summarised the aims of the amendments for the Committee. They said that the amendments aim to reduce the UK ETS cap to align it with a net zero trajectory. They also said that the amendments aim to create a flexible reserve of allowances that will be stocked from allowances such as those that remain unallocated and may have been available to participants for free.”
“The Committee heard that Minister Muir had given consent for the draft SI to be laid under the draft affirmative resolution procedure and that it would be laid simultaneously as an Order in Council before the Northern Ireland Assembly, the Houses of Parliament, the Scottish Parliament and the Senedd.”
“The Committee looked at the governance of the scheme by the UK ETS Authority and considered aspects specific to Northern Ireland, such as the six electricity generating installations that continue to participate in the EU ETS under the terms of the Windsor framework. <BR /> <BR />At our meeting on 26 September, we considered a letter from the Minister that gave us advance notice of the laying before the Assembly of the statutory instrument to amend the Greenhouse Gas Emissions Trading Scheme Order 2020, which provides the legislative basis for the UK ETS.”
“The Committee for Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs has taken a considerable interest in understanding the UK ETS to ensure proper scrutiny of the related statutory instrument. <BR /> <BR />On 18 April, Members received a detailed oral briefing on the UK ETS from officials in DAERA's climate change and green growth policy division. The Committee considered the cap and trade principle for carbon emissions produced by installations within the scope of the scheme and heard that some installations receive a proportion of their carbon allowance for free — known as "free allocation" — to address carbon leakage.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I really do not want to see this useful debate descending. Obviously, I am pro-life, like you. Does the Member recognise that, as recently as the past couple of months, the committee has reported on deficiencies in the protections for unborn children with disabilities? The read-across is that it devalues the life of a disabled person, if their life is less valuable in the womb.”
“We have an opportunity to right historical wrongs and to ensure that the rights of people with disabilities are no longer an afterthought but a priority. I say to all Ministers — not just the Communities Minister but all Ministers, including the First Minister and deputy First Minister — that the time for rhetoric and toothless motions is over and the time for action is now. Let us have no more delays; let us wake up and act.”
“The CRPD is a framework for ensuring that that is the case, and it must guide us towards a culture that celebrates life and actively dismantles barriers that devalue the disabled community from the very start. The UN Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities needs to be much clearer and more explicit in its stance on protecting the rights of unborn children with disabilities, because the ambiguity surrounding that issue has led to debate, confusion and doubt about the convention's core principles. <BR /> <BR />Incorporating the UNCRPD into our laws would not be just a symbolic gesture; it would be the foundation of a fairer and more inclusive society for everyone and a commitment to listening, learning and acting decisively.”
“Let us be clear that this is not about charity; it is about justice. <BR /> <BR />I will address the amendment proposed by my colleagues in the DUP. There can be no debate about the fact that, at the heart of the CRPD, is the principle that every life, regardless of ability or circumstance, is valuable and worthy of protection. That includes the lives of our unborn children with disabilities, who are among the most vulnerable in our society. True equality means protecting and uplifting all individuals at every stage of life. It means creating a society in which every person with a disability is welcomed, supported and valued not just after birth but from the very beginning of existence.”
“Beyond that, Northern Ireland continues to lag behind on equality legislation. For decades, campaigners have called for reform, but the action that is needed to align our laws with modern, inclusive standards have not been forthcoming. The CRPD provides a road map for addressing those failings. By incorporating its principles into local legislation, we would enshrine a framework for equality, dignity and opportunity for people with disabilities. It is not just about having rights on paper, however; it is about making sure that those rights are put into practice. They include the right to live independently and be included in the community; the right to access education, employment and healthcare without barriers; and the right to be protected from all forms of exploitation, violence and abuse.”
“They are Joanne Sansome, young Andrew Hamilton, Seán Fitzsimons and Patrick Malone. I am sure that Members will have come across some of those guys. I know that there are more, but their dedication has been relentless, their advocacy persuasive and their impact invaluable. Together, we have made strides, but together we are reminded that we must go much further. <BR /> <BR />As has been mentioned, the Assembly was in stalemate for five years, and, during that time, meaningful progress on disability rights was frozen. Even when the institutions have been operational, successive Ministers have failed to tackle the deep-rooted inequalities that face people with disabilities. The Disability Discrimination Act, which was once seen as groundbreaking legislation, is glaringly outdated and antiquated.”
“<BR /> <BR />Any of you who have been following my colleague Andy Allen's Twitter feed will know that he is indestructible — he will face any wall and just keep going — but we see that, even on a regular trip across the water, the big airlines are not making their journeys accessible. That can be humiliating, and it is not acceptable. What I will say about our disabled community is that they have incredible resilience and their contribution to society is immeasurable. However, we need to do better and ensure that their rightful demand for equality and inclusion is absolutely met. <BR /> <BR />As chair of the all-party group on disability, I have had the privilege of working alongside some tireless advocates, one or two of whom have already been mentioned. I will read their names into Hansard, if that is OK.”
“I support the motion and the amendments, and I welcome the chance to debate this really important motion, albeit that, in a way, our motions are toothless. I agree with the leader of the Opposition in that regard: we need to move at pace and see these things materialise. <BR /> <BR />As has been pointed out, 25% of our population lives with a disability or a long-term health condition. Behind that statistic, however, we are talking about individuals — children, parents, colleagues and neighbours — who daily face inequalities and barriers that many of us cannot fully comprehend. From physical inaccessibility to digital exclusion, from discrimination in the workplace to gaps in public service provision, the challenges that those people face are profound.”
“It is heartening to see organisations such as the Ulster Farmers' Union and the National Sheep Association powerfully advocating for their members in the sector. <BR /> <BR />We must act decisively and collaboratively. I call on the Minister to engage with farmers, the industry and stakeholders and environmental experts to craft policies that provide tangible support so that the finances are not stripped out of our sheep industry. That will include financial assistance, investment in research and innovation and measures to improve market access and resilience for our sheep farmers.”
“At the same time, we must recognise the untapped potential for greater export opportunities. As a former butcher who tried to sell Irish lamb against New Zealand lamb, I know that there is no question about the quality of our product. Northern Ireland is renowned for high-quality sheep meat and wool. By investing in market access and branding, we can expand our reach to international markets and secure better returns for our farmers whilst showcasing the best of Northern Ireland on the global stage. <BR /> <BR />The environmental benefits of sheep farming are undeniable. Properly managed grazing supports biodiversity, enhances soil health and contributes to carbon sequestration. Those practices are not just beneficial but essential to our collective effort to address the climate crisis, as John Blair mentioned.”
“and we know the benefits of sheep farming over other types of farming. To achieve that, individual farm businesses must be resilient. Economic viability is key to enabling investments and productivity gains through genetic improvements, better animal health and welfare and advancements in soil and grassland management. Those are not just aspirations but necessities, if the sheep sector is to continue delivering for our economy and our environment. <BR /> <BR />The challenges posed by diseases such as maedi-visna (MV) and bluetongue cannot be ignored. We must remain vigilant and proactive in safeguarding animal health, ensuring that our farmers are equipped with the resources and support needed to combat those threats. A lot of that will come down to their financial viability.”
“improved soil quality and better water management, all while:”
“It is a vision for the development of the sheep industry, and it clearly outlines a path forward. The vision emphasises the need:”
“Financial pressures threaten the future viability of sheep farming and, consequently, the vital contribution that it makes to the agri-food sector and the environment. Miss McIlveen put on record very well the additional burden that all our farmers, particularly sheep farmers, face with the potential 17% reduction and the draconian Budget that the Labour Government have foisted upon farming, business and industry. I echo the calls in the motion and the amendment for the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs to outline a robust plan to support and safeguard the sector. We all must ensure that sheep farming not only survives but thrives. <BR /> <BR />The 2023 report of the Northern Ireland sheep industry task force was in our Members' packs.”
“Studies from the Agri-Food and Biosciences Institute reveal that the carbon footprint of ewes in upland areas is 8% lower than that of ewes on lowland farms. The amendment allows us to say that, regardless of that, we should not exclude any sheep farmers, but the facts speak for themselves. It demonstrates the sector's potential to contribute to sustainable agricultural practices while maintaining the viability of less-favoured areas. <BR /> <BR />Despite sheep farming's significance, it faces considerable challenges under the future agricultural policy. Many sheep farmers are grappling with the imminent 17% reduction in their basic farm payment scheme, which has been a lifeline to many who struggled to maintain their livelihood.”
“It is good to respond to the motion and the amendment, both of which are worthy of support, stimulate the conversation and exclude nobody. It is important that we highlight the critical role of the sheep sector in Northern Ireland's agri-food industry. As many of you will know from meeting those farmers, it is not just a livelihood for them; the sector is part of the very fabric and a cornerstone of our rural communities . It helps to knit together the economy, our environment and our heritage, particularly in less-favoured areas, where it is often the primary farm enterprise. <BR /> <BR />Sheep farming in upland areas not only supports local economies but provides environmental benefits, some of which have been spoken about.”
“It is really important, and we need to reiterate the calls to champion farmers and the sector at this critical time.”
“<BR /> <BR />The motion rightly calls on the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs to bring forward proposals to mitigate the impacts. There are a few here. I urge him to create a succession planning grant scheme; establish a young farmers' investment fund; and, although this might be more difficult, revisit targeted tax reliefs for farm incentives. The Minister will need to work closely with the Minister for Finance, perhaps to secure commitments to maintain and increase farm support budgets. Multi-year budgets are the gold standard, if they can be achieved, and we all need to face in that direction. <BR /> <BR />Mr Deputy Speaker, I see you looking at the button. Give me another second or two. I thank the Members who tabled the motion.”
“The rising cost of food is already a concern for many families, and further pressure on local food production will only exacerbate the issue. Equally troubling are the Chancellor's decision to remove the ring-fenced farm support budgets and the failure to adjust them in line with inflation over a number of years. Without inflationary uplifts, the real value of farm support is eroding annually. For many small and medium-sized farms, the funding is not a luxury: it is essential to their survival. Farmers are grappling with rising input costs, from feed to fertilisers, and they need certainty about the financial support available to them, yet the Budget offers none. That lack of commitment undermines not only the livelihoods of farmers but the stability of the wider rural economy that relies on the success of agriculture.”
“I often tell this story, and I will tell it one more time, although I will probably tell it again: I remember Brazilian beef being introduced for the first time when I was a butcher. We had been used to selling Northern Irish, Irish and UK beef, which is a quality product, for years. You cannot compare the two. The Brazilian beef comes in and blows the price that local farmers can produce it for, but it is nowhere near as good. In fact, there is a sell-by date of three months on the blinking stuff when it is in your fridge. How can it stay good for three months? I would love to know what has been pumped into it. Anyway, I will get off my hobby horse about Brazilian beef. <BR /> <BR />These policies risk diminishing our agriculture output and increasing our reliance on imports. We need to avoid that.”
“Food security is a national priority, and we cannot afford to undermine it through short-sighted policies.”
“<BR /> <BR />The changes also discourage investment in farm businesses at a time when we should encourage farmers to modernise their operations, embrace sustainable practices and improve efficiency. The draconian tax policies make it less appealing to invest in the future. We know that, if we do not invest, farms cannot adopt innovations in renewable energy, precision agriculture and sustainable land management, all of which are critical to addressing the climate crisis and ensuring food security. I am not even sure that the Labour Government agree that we face a real, tangible threat to our food security.”
“We cannot ignore the additional barriers that this will create for new entrants to agriculture, if there are any. Young people, who already face challenges in accessing affordable land and resources, will be further deterred from pursuing a career in farming. That risks hollowing out the future of agriculture, as our ageing farming population will struggle to find successors who are willing or able to take on the financial and operational challenges of the sector. That seemed to be the single most resounding call at last night's event at the Eikon centre in Lagan Valley. At the start of that debate, we listened to a couple of young farmers outline the pressures that they now face with the viability of the very futures not just for them but for their children and their children's children.”
“<BR /> <BR />The introduction of new thresholds for inheritance tax and agricultural property relief risks jeopardising the viability of many family farms, probably more so in Northern Ireland than in any other part of the United Kingdom. Succession planning is already a challenge for farming families due to the high cost of farmland, the relentless and moving government policies and the uncertainties in the agriculture sector. The changes will force families to make impossible choices, such as whether to sell off parts of their land or assets to meet tax obligations, which will undermine their ability to pass on farms to the next generation. <BR /> <BR />Thankfully, our farmers are getting some airtime in the media to share their frustrations.”
“I support the motion and express my deep concern about the UK Government's failure to adequately prioritise farming families and the rural economy in their 2024 autumn Budget. The decision to introduce new thresholds for inheritance tax and agricultural property relief represents not just a financial burden but a significant blow to the agriculture community, which forms the backbone of Northern Ireland's economy, culture and society. For anyone who wants to know what that looks like, there were over 6,000 farmers and their families at the Eikon centre in Lagan Valley last night, as the Member eloquently stated, to justify the import of today's motion. I thank the Members from the Democratic Unionist Party for the timely motion.”
“I hope that the Minister, in his response to the debate, grapples with the points that we have made and recognises that a holistic science-led approach is needed. He needs to not shy away from the issue during his tenure, because our farmers really need an answer from this place.”
“Equally, wildlife species like badgers and deer, which Mr McGlone mentioned, need to be treated with respect to reduce their suffering, and sometimes those are difficult decisions. The blanket culling of badgers has long been a controversial issue, and the evidence on its effectiveness for eradicating bTB is contested, but there is no doubt that it is a component of it. The University of Cambridge study confirms that vaccination could be a viable and ethical alternative. <BR /> <BR />Farmers need to be central in considerations around balancing welfare. The stress of losing animals to TB, enduring repeated testing and facing financial uncertainty is immense. Indeed, bovine tuberculosis is one of the leading contributors to farmers' deteriorating mental health.”
“I understand that that aspect of the solution would require significant investment in infrastructure, training and communication in order to ensure farmer buy-in and successful implementation and to minimise the cull that would probably still be required, which may be determined as absolutely necessary. <BR /> <BR />Animal welfare must be central to any strategy that we develop. It is a difficult truth that decisions about controlling wildlife populations often spark divisive debates, but the welfare balance cannot be ignored. Often, in the debate about animal welfare and bTB, our livestock are overlooked. Cattle are an integral component of our food system, and they deserve protection from the suffering caused by bTB.”
“The research demonstrates that, when properly implemented, badger vaccination reduces bovine tuberculosis prevalence without resorting to widespread culling, which is very difficult for some people even to contemplate. Moreover, cattle vaccination, combined with differentiating infected from vaccinated animals (DIVA) testing, provides a pathway to long-term disease control. I do not believe that we, as a jurisdiction, currently consider or support vaccination as a tool in the eradication strategy, but we should not remove it as a future useful part of the holistic methodology that the motion tries to point us towards.”
“<BR /> <BR />The science is unequivocal, by which I mean that it says that there is no silver bullet for eradicating TB and that it is slightly more complex than having just one strategy. Any successful strategy must integrate multiple measures. The recent bTB vaccination report by the University of Cambridge, which Mr Gaston talked about, provides some useful evidence for the role that a vaccine could play. The vaccination of cattle and badgers could offer a humane and scientifically supported method of reducing disease transmission, but we are probably a little step away from that programme, and we cannot wait on all the findings from it.”
“The Assembly should commend the efforts that have been made to consult widely and to incorporate those diverse perspectives. The Northern Ireland bTB report provided valuable data and insights. It is clear that a science-based approach is pivotal. Initiatives like targeted testing, biosecurity measures and the roll-out of risk-based trading have set a solid foundation, but that is what it is: a foundation. The motion, however, highlights the fact that we need a more "comprehensive and holistic" strategy that balances eradication efforts with the welfare of all animals and the sustainability of our rural communities. I thank the Members for tabling the motion.”
“I hope that today we will honestly and openly critically assess the efforts that have been made to date, highlight the gaps, which some Members have pointed out, and propose actionable solutions that will put science, welfare and sustainability at the heart of the Minister's response. <BR /> <BR />Let us first acknowledge the significant work that has already been undertaken, which Mr McGlone spoke about. The eradication strategy and the TB Eradication Partnership represent meaningful steps towards addressing the disease, but, as we know, different Ministers have taken various approaches so far, and we find ourselves in stasis. Stakeholder engagement has been central to the approach that everyone has tried to deploy so far.”
“My apologies for my rushed entrance. This is an important debate on bovine tuberculosis, which continues to plague our farming community. It impacts on not only agricultural output but the physical, mental and financial well-being of farmers across Northern Ireland. When I was first announced as the Chair of the AERA Committee, the first phone call that I took was from a farmer who talked about the more than significant impact that the disease is having on his business, his mental state and his wider family. <BR /> <BR />I have been listening to the debate, and I have heard that, so far, the Assembly has acknowledged the profound impact of bTB, and rightly so. The disease is a scourge on our livestock industry, a threat to our very economy and a challenge to animal and farmer welfare.”
“One thing that I learned is that every electrical appliance that has ever been created has an element of a fault in it; there is no such thing as a perfect electrical item. Every item that you have — this is a word of warning to you guys, if you are charging your phones at night, for instance, and all of those things — carries a risk. <BR />Mr Kingston usefully pointed out that we probably use more electricity than we ever did. We need to think about the load that people are putting on houses when they charge their cars. <BR /> <BR />I have a question for the Minister, if he does not mind. The regulations probably do not extend to Airbnbs, but, with more and more people using those for nights and weekends away, particularly in this country, could that be looked at as an extension to the regulations?”
“I do not sit on the Communities Committee. However, I find it a really worthwhile announcement by the Minister. As a party, we welcome and support the change. It is something that, given my background in the Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service, I am particularly passionate about. I met some of the electrical safety groups previously in different mandates about coming to this point. It is all good news today, because it will bring a different level of safety and regulation to tenants in those properties. <BR /> <BR />I am surprised to hear the figure of around 58% that the Fire and Rescue Service has indicated for electrical fires. However, there is no doubt that one of the things we could do better is to educate young people in regard to that.”