Robbie Butler
Lagan Valley · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Officials highlighted that alignment was provided through existing EU-derived arrangements and that coherence with existing regulatory frameworks was identified as a main consideration.”
“I note that the Member for Strangford agrees: she understands the value of our fisheries in those areas. There are other complexities. The Isle of Man Government have now done a bit of a circle around that island, which makes it difficult for our fishers from Portavogie, Kilkeel and Portaferry to craft and graft a living from some of the…”
“The Committee took the opportunity to question officials on several issues and highlight matters warranting scrutiny at Committee Stage but was not limited to those areas.”
“As the Minister said, they have possibly been viewed as competing demands, but they are not competing demands, because clean water is part of sustainable food production.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am glad to see language in the Bill on the sustainability of the aquaculture sector, and I want to lean in a bit on that. Aquaculture pastimes have, perhaps, been underutilised, whether they relate to the angling fraternity or other river and water users.”
“Today, I want to talk about a very talented young girl from Lisburn called Freya Terris. Freya, who is 17 years old, attends Friends' School and studies the piano under former Lisburn resident Rory Dowse. Freya is an incredibly accomplished young pianist and has performed in the Ulster Hall.”
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“I thank the Chair of the Committee for Communities for that update. It was a very worthy and worthwhile update, and I welcome just about everything that he shared. I particularly like the way that he set out in detail how the Committee will consult the deaf community and the way in which deaf people will be included in that consultation in their own language. <BR /> <BR />Will the Committee Chair help me with a couple of issues? There is no doubt that the impact of this legislation will be that young people will, potentially, see the best and most effective change in their life outcomes. Has the Committee had any talks, at this stage, on how it can engage with members of the community who are under 18 and ensure that they have a voice? It is also about our elder community.”
“I thank the Minister for his phone call on Friday evening to update me. <BR /> <BR />In his statement, he said that there has been no movement of susceptible live animals from Hungary or Slovakia to Northern Ireland since the beginning of the year. Were any such animals tracked before the beginning of the year, and, if so, has action been taken to ensure that the biosecurity net is tightly tied? Will he also take the opportunity to outline the risk that an outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease would pose to the agriculture community?”
“I thank the Minister for her detailed statement. Will she elaborate on the types of victims and witnesses who are "particularly vulnerable"? I think that they are mentioned on page 7 of the statement. Also, is the Department in a position to offer any assistance to those people while they wait for legal redress?”
“Secondly, if we do not get off on the right step now and get this right for future generations of our young people, which means supporting the Ulster Unionist Party's amendment, we will just —”
“I was not close to joining; what I meant was that people whom I grew up with joined. I knew that they had joined, and I knew that they had been radicalised. Thankfully, I did not. I never even thought about it. However, I know that some of my friends did. Sadly, whether we like it or not, some of our young people are still being radicalised. <BR /> <BR />I will finish by talking about the reality of not getting this right. Within the past couple of years, there was an attempt on the life of DCI Caldwell. There are two things that are wrong here, guys. One is the fact that, if we glorify the past, we will allow people to make those mistakes in the future. That is something that needs to be addressed.”
“That is fine; you have made your point very clearly. <BR /> <BR />Brian Kingston called for the full rigour of the law. There is absolutely no doubt that we all agree. He asked for paramilitaries to leave the scene entirely. That is exactly what we all want to achieve, but unfortunately, as I said, we have a reality, whether we like it or not. None of them has any skin in the game except in our communities that we are trying to free from their grip. They need us to be honest in what we are saying. That is just the reality of it. <BR /> <BR />Matthew O'Toole said that the debate was bewildering and head-scratching. He then used what I would call a Presbyterianism: the "pernicious presence of paramilitaries". That is the truth. We grew up with it. I was misquoted once as saying that I was close to joining.”
“OK. I am going to have to race through the next wee bit. I am sorry that the Member did not take that opportunity. I thought that she had misspoken, but obviously not.”
“I have worked with the gentleman for years. He has served his country and put his life at risk. He has led this party in holding to account paramilitaries of all hues, regardless of whether they say that they are orange or green. <BR /> <BR />How long do I have, Mr Deputy Speaker?”
“As Mr Kelly rightly pointed out, it would not be about accepting the expert's findings; it would be about looking at what the expert pulls out of the conversation and saying yes or no, and, if it were not enough, we could act. <BR /> <BR />Doug Beattie set out our position really well. I will give you an opportunity to redress this, Kellie, because I usually support you, but you stated that he said that there were good and bad paramilitaries. He absolutely did not say that. I ask you to retract that allegation.”
“This is a Chamber, and I am sure that the Minister could have come here as an MLA and made statements. It would not have been the first time that a Minister has said, "I am speaking on behalf of my party, as a Minister or as the leader of a party". That is absolutely fine. The Minister excuses herself very often because of operational reasons. In reality, it is very plain to see where the Alliance Party is on the issue. It is not in a good space. We all want to get to the same place, which is why I do not want the debate to descend into finger-pointing; that would not be of any use. All that the motion needed to do was recognise the position that we are in and say, "It would be good to have an independent expert".”
“Not at the moment. I will give way in a wee second, if that is OK. <BR /> <BR />There were a couple of big players in that room. However, listen to the former leader of the DUP: they asked him about his chief regrets over the years, and he said, "I wish that we had started talking sooner". Talking is important, but listening is more important, because good practice has happened, and we are not where we were, but neither are we where we could be. <BR /> <BR />I will let the Member come in.”
“In fact, one of my earliest debates was on the separated prisoner regime in Maghaberry. We tabled a motion, and the Alliance Party voted with Sinn Féin to say, "Let's have an independent expert look at it". With hindsight, that was probably the right approach, because you have to talk to people. <BR /> <BR />I was at an event two or three years ago to mark the 25th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Alliance Party's motion would be fine. However, to look at where we are and where we have come from and not learn from the past is to do it all again, rinse and repeat, because it is a contradiction. Everybody in the Chamber and every party is facing in the same direction, whether it is Sinn Féin, the DUP, Alliance, the SDLP, the Ulster Unionist Party or the TUV. Nobody is standing here and saying that there is any place for any paramilitary in 2025. Most of us will agree that there was not any place at all, but we have a lived reality in Northern Ireland, and if it was as simple as applying the law — the Alliance Party has held the Justice portfolio for 10 years; Minister Long has been there for almost four years — and I wish it was that simple, we would not be having this debate tonight.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. Before I reach into the motion, it is really important that we listen to what each of us says, because we have been living here all our lives and have all experienced the Troubles in a different way. Some of us have served and put our lives at risk daily, some of us have taken other measures and some of us have an opinion, and that came across in spades today. Every one of those opinions is valid to the community from which they come, because we do not choose the family that we are born into. We are born into a family and born into experiences, and we bear the collective trauma that had an impact right across this little country for so many years. I am very aware that some Members of this Chamber had that wrought on them, so I will be as careful as I can with my words.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. I know that he is absolutely honourable in his commitment to the matter. However, we have only two years left of the mandate. Will he outline what he believes is achievable in the mandate, and given that this is how I would proceed, does he agree that the Department of Education could take the lead on it in the next mandate?”
“I do not raise that to be naughty; I raise it to get the message out that we need to act with haste.”
“The farmers from Lagan Valley who contacted me this morning are genuinely concerned that their views will not be represented. It is vital for participation in targeted consultation that the process is not open to invalid involvement, but, sadly, this morning, the evidence is already appearing across social media that that is not the case. <BR /> <BR />I urge the Department to act speedily in this regard, because we know that our farmers are under incredible pressure not just because of draconian taxes and the onslaught of TB but, now, when they are being asked to contribute to the climate debate, which we all want to be part of, there is, unfortunately, already some nervousness that the consultation process developed by the Department is not fit for purpose.”
“Whilst engagement and hearing the voices of those who will be impacted most is important, there are, sadly, serious questions about the integrity of the data being gathered at the very start of the consultation. If non-target individuals are able to participate, how can we be assured that the results will accurately reflect the views of Northern Ireland's farmers and growers?”
“I welcome a survey that has been launched by Minister Muir, who has taken the time to seek the opinions and attitudes of farmers, who will be most directly affected by future net zero proposals in agriculture. It is vital that policy is shaped, I am sure that we all agree, by those who work the land to produce our food and who will bear the consequences of any regulatory changes. However, my purpose in speaking this morning is to issue my concern that the survey appears to be open to anyone to complete and submit, with the link being widely shared on social media.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. He will certainly recognise that that has been an Ulster Unionist commitment for many years. I am sure that the Minister will also agree that housing supply and increasing energy efficiency will contribute to the overall well-being of our citizens. Will the Minister therefore advise whether, if the Northern Ireland Housing Executive were to be given that ability tomorrow, how quickly it could move and what improvements renters would see in the short, medium and long term?”
“I thank the First Minister for her answer. TEO has, indeed, held the reins of the MLK site for over a decade. The board has proffered examples during its tenure. However, Lisburn council has a development plan. Under the current Sinn Féin/DUP First Minister and deputy First Minister, will we see tangible change and the delivery of economic opportunity in Lagan Valley for the people who have been promised it for so long?”
“The legacy of the Executive and Assembly cannot be one of short-term aspiration but must be one of long-term delivery. That can be achieved only with multi-year Budgets, stable and reliable government and a commitment to interdepartmental collaboration that delivers real value for money. We must regularly review what we are doing, challenge inefficiency and refuse to allow outdated ways of working to hold us back. <BR /> <BR />Let us not perform like Assemblies of old. Let us do more, do it better and do it together for everyone in Northern Ireland.”
“While we may be in a better political position than we were when this place was empty, the scale of repair and transformation that is required is absolutely enormous. Those who choose political abstinence in this place must take a long, hard look at the consequences of their actions not in the abstract but through the lives of the people who have suffered from years of stagnation in this place. <BR /> <BR />There is much to welcome in the Programme for Government's priorities, but we owe it to the people of Northern Ireland to be abundantly clear and honest about the pace of delivery and not just progress. People do not need political platitudes; they need results. They need to know when their lives will get better, not just how we plan to make them better.”
“The fact that this is the first Programme for Government since 2011 is both good news and, frankly, a source of deep shame. It is good news, because it signals progress, consensus and a collective effort to govern. It is a shame on all of us, because it should never have taken this long to produce. <BR /> <BR />Imagine where we could have been had we had successive, fully implemented Programmes for Government and an Executive who worked through their difficulties rather than collapsing under them. We are in a slightly better fiscal position than we were in previous years not because of new investment or a bold economic strategy but largely because we have been underfunded for so long that any uplift, sadly, feels like relief.”
“On the "Shaping a Better Tomorrow" section and the "Prosperity" mission, the Committee highlighted the fact that rural, micro and small businesses need support to thrive and grow. The Committee will, no doubt, consider whether the final Programme for Government goes far enough in addressing rural affairs. <BR /> <BR />I will make a few comments on my behalf and that of my party. The beginning of the Programme for Government document that we have before us rightly notes what we can achieve together in the remainder of the mandate, which the First Minister mentioned, but let us take a moment to imagine what could have been achieved if we had had a full mandate in which to deliver and stability, continuity and shared determination to make progress year-on-year.”
“Given the emphasis on delivering multiple objectives from land use, the Committee feels that there are opportunities and risks that need to be dealt with more strategically, potentially via a land use framework.”
“<BR /> <BR />On the "Planet" mission of "Shaping a Better Tomorrow", growing the economy is, in some cases, in opposition to climate change actions. A balanced approach is needed. Members highlighted the fact that the development of environmental commitments should be underpinned by legally binding targets. <BR /> <BR />Although there was high-level commentary on agriculture in the draft Programme for Government, we felt, and still feel, that there is a lack of detail on some statements, such as that the Executive:”
“Some members believe that the loss of rural development funding post-EU exit continues to undermine support for rural areas. The Committee will be keen to see the delivery of a new rural policy framework to build prosperous rural communities, which will be developed collaboratively with rural communities. <BR /> <BR />The "People" mission is part of "Shaping a Better Tomorrow". We highlighted to the Executive Office Committee the fact that the Welsh just transition model is underpinned by well-being to ensure that people thrive, as well as the economy. The Committee looks forward to engaging with the just transition commission and supporting DAERA to secure funding for a just transition fund for agriculture.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee has concerns about delays in service delivery, such as the processing of planning applications, and is advised that not having sufficient staff is part of that problem, so it is good to see the proposal of apprenticeship routes as one method of increasing staff resource at the Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA). We will request updates on the transformation of public services and on DAERA's share of the £235 million transformation fund. <BR /> <BR />The second pillar is "Building New Foundations". Members felt that the draft Programme for Government lacked a focus on rural development. In November 2024, we held our meeting in Cookstown to hear from rural development groups and networks about their main concerns.”
“The Committee looks forward to the development of an Executive-agreed climate action plan, which is to be consulted on in 2025, and seeing the detail of the cross-cutting steps to reduce carbon emissions and deliver across aspects within DAERA's remit, including agriculture, land use, forestry, waste and fisheries. We highlighted to the Executive Office Committee in our response to the draft Programme for Government the fact that the interventions in response to the environmental crisis at Lough Neagh are part of a legal obligation, such as the delivery of an environmental strategy, and the need to be cognisant of that. However, the Committee recognised that some Members will be disappointed that there is no commitment to the introduction of an independent environmental protection agency.”
“The Committee has been following the progress of the small business research initiative for shorter-term solutions to blue-green algae. At the stage of the draft Programme for Government, phase 1 had launched, and five organisations had been selected to develop a proof-of-concept solution. The Committee hopes that the funding for both phases has been secured. <BR /> <BR />The Committee recognised the importance of the first environment strategy's setting carbon budgets and developing a climate action plan in helping to reach the goal of net zero by 2025. However, we were concerned that the delay in the publication of plans potentially undermines the Executive's position in addressing those matters.”
“In our response to the Executive Office Committee, we highlighted the insufficient commitment to public engagement at departmental business planning level and said that we wished to see a public engagement strategy to connect the public with what is being delivered by the Department. <BR /> <BR />The first pillar is "Doing What Matters Most Today". We welcomed the fact that "Protecting Lough Neagh and the Environment" was one of the nine immediate priorities in the draft PFG and remains so in the final PFG, with a target of 2027 for delivering the Lough Neagh report and action plan. We will discuss that further on Thursday at Committee during our first evidence session with DAERA's Lough Neagh project manager.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak on behalf of the Committee for Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs. My comments are mainly in the context of the oral evidence session that we had with officials on 10 October 2024 and the subsequent response that we sent to the Executive Office Committee on the draft PFG. As the final PFG was issued to Members last Friday, naturally, the Committee has not yet had a chance to consider it. <BR /> <BR />Overall, the Committee was supportive of the short-, medium- and long-term actions under the three headings of "Doing What Matters Most Today", "Building New Foundations" and "Shaping a Better Tomorrow", with its three long-term missions of "People, Planet and Prosperity". The Committee was glad to hear that DAERA's 2024-25 business plan had clear links to the draft PFG's priorities and missions.”
“I thank the Minister for his short answer, and this is equally short. There is a role for methane in the gas supply: has the Minister done any work on that?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. There is no doubt that the poultry and egg industry is already stifled by moribund planning and growth restrictions. Can the industry be confident of the Minister's support regarding further unnecessary bureaucracy not being included in the transportation of that litter? Since the Minister mentioned bird flu — I thank him for that — will he give us an update on bird flu-related matters?”
“I thank the Member for giving way; I hope that she will forgive me. I raise the point that Mr Gaston made about devolution failing: devolution has not failed. Has the failure to have government here for five years of the past eight — of the Member's 11 years, there has been government in only six, and they have never been joined together — not been the biggest barrier to progress in Northern Ireland in the recent political past?”
“Nothing can replace written correspondence when it comes to reliability and accessibility. <BR /> <BR />The Executive must embed ageing-population planning into the Programme for Government, which ensures that our public services, housing and infrastructure are not just reactive but future-proofed. If we get this right, we not only improve life for older people but create a society that will be better for us all, now and in the future.”
“Thank you very much. I appreciate the extra minute, because this is worthy of debate. It is a noble aspiration — most people can say that they understand it — but the reality is that technology goes down, as happened at the start of my speech: I could not count on my laptop to get me through and needed my paper copy. The Member is right, if what he is talking about is a complementary service, and that digital inclusion costs little. However, it should be digital inclusion, not digital at the exclusion of everything else, which would reduce the quality of the service that the people of Northern Ireland should be getting. Digital infrastructure is not infallible, as is clear by what happened to me today. It should be viewed as complementary and not as the holy grail.”
“Poor transport infrastructure, particularly in rural areas, compounds that problem. When people are cut off from their communities, their mental and physical health can suffer. A truly age-friendly society must ensure that people remain connected physically, socially and digitally. That brings me to an issue that we have to debate at some stage: our growing push for and, arguably, our over-reliance on technology. Technology should bend to people; not the other way around. The idea that some politicians are calling for an end to paper letters for vital health appointments is, in my view, parody politics. If storm Éowyn and the subsequent electricity and broadband blackout have taught us anything —.”
“Many older people, including those who once owned a home, now find themselves unable to afford the modifications that are essential to living safely and independently. Without strategic investment, we risk forcing more people into inappropriate housing, hospital stays or even, prematurely, into care homes at huge financial and human cost. Quite simply, we do not build enough bungalows or adapt enough ground-floor properties. We are trying to get people to bend to the infrastructure as opposed to making the infrastructure bend to people. <BR /> <BR />We must also confront the reality of loneliness, especially here in Northern Ireland, for rural dwellers, because isolation and exclusion impact on people. Older people, particularly those over 75, are significantly more likely to experience loneliness.”
“Failing to plan now will place an unsustainable strain on public services, exacerbate inequalities and leave future generations struggling with challenges that we have failed to address. <BR /> <BR />There are multiple priorities — I will not cover them all, because some of them have been covered by the Chair of the Health Committee and by Mr Kingston and the proposer of the motion — but I will talk about two, if that is OK. Housing provision is one of the most urgent concerns — yesterday, we had a debate on the issue that involved the Communities Minister. Our social housing sector is already under immense pressure, with demand far outstripping supply, but what is often overlooked is the fact that housing must be not only available but adaptable.”
“Today, in Northern Ireland, one in six people is 65; by 2030, that will be one in five people; by 2040, it will be one in four; and by 2070, there will be just two working-age people for every pensioner. That is a remarkable statistic. <BR /> <BR />The demographic shift is not just about older people but will affect every one of us and impact on the very fabric of our society. Too often, however, the debate around an ageing society is misunderstood. Some try to portray it as simply calling for more services for older people. That is not the case. It is about trying to achieve a system-wide approach in order to ensure that our housing, transport, healthcare and economy are equipped to support an ageing population in a way that benefits everyone.”
“Your timing is immaculate, Mr Speaker; it is absolutely perfect. Thanks for that. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Member who — for the first time in 11 years, did you say? — proposed the private Member's motion, and I thank her for her services as chair of the all-party group (APG) on ageing and older people. It is an excellent APG. I also thank Age NI for providing secretariat services to the APG and for its help behind the scenes with tabling the motion. <BR /> <BR />As Mr Kingston mentioned, our population in Northern Ireland is ageing. We have experienced that shift more rapidly than any other part of the United Kingdom or the island of Ireland.”
“They need fair rents, safe homes and real security. Good landlords should have nothing to fear from such reforms because they are already doing what is right. This is about tackling bad practices that undermine the entire sector and, most importantly, making sure that having a home is not a constant source of stress and uncertainty. I urge the Minister to act because decent, affordable and secure homes should be not a luxury in Northern Ireland but a fundamental right.”
“That means having fair rent controls, stronger security of tenure and a statutory housing ombudsman to hold bad landlords to account. It also means enforcing proper housing standards so that no one is forced to live in damp, cold or unsafe conditions. I am sure that you guys get to see the pictures from your constituents of instances where there is black mould and damp that cause health inequalities that in turn lead to pressures on our health system. <BR /> <BR />This is not just about renters; it is about fixing the wider housing system. For too long, we have relied too heavily on the private rented sector because there simply have not been enough social and affordable homes built. If we do not address that, we will keep pushing people into an unstable market with little security. People deserve better.”
“Any intervention that we achieve must be balanced, proportionate and underpinned by evidence so that we do not cause an adverse effect. In an ideal world, we would simply deliver at pace more housing options, but we have to be honest and say that that is not going to happen overnight. That is why it is right that tenants have protections against unfair rent increases, evictions and the denial of basic repairs. They should also have a clear route to challenge and hold landlords to account when those responsibilities are not being met. <BR /> <BR />The motion calls for a "new deal for private renters". It is about striking a balance, however, that supports reasonable landlords whilst ensuring that tenants have proper rights and protections.”
“We cannot pretend that that does not happen, because it does. No-fault evictions leave families in limbo, forcing them to uproot their lives at short notice. That is not fair, and it is not right.”
“However, as in many areas of life that we come across, there are those who do not play by the rules and, unfortunately, give others a bad reputation. I am sure that we have all dealt with cases in which tenants were afraid to ask for repairs, possibly because they were afraid that their landlord would evict them.”
“I know that it is not part of the motion, but we need to keep an eye on the issue: on Friday, I did a little drive-by in my constituency and saw a lovely house with the eye-watering rental price tag of £2,000 a month. It is a nice, detached property in a nice area — well, obviously, it is, because I live in Lisburn — but, setting that aside, who can afford rent of £2,000 a month? As Mr Carroll said, in Belfast, rents for properties that are not very big are well in excess of £1,000 a month. We are pricing people out of the market. <BR /> <BR />Let me be clear: this is not about painting all landlords as bad, as Mr Durkan rightly said. Many do the right thing: they provide safe and well-maintained homes and treat their tenants with fairness and respect.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak on the motion, because, frankly, housing is absolutely in crisis. I do not know about other Members in the Chamber, but, if you were to ask me for the number-one issue that comes through my door each day, I would say, unequivocally, that it is housing. People face other pressures in health, education and farming and agriculture — I have to get a punch in for my Committee — but housing and issues across the housing sector take up the most time for my staff. Some of the issues have already been discussed. <BR /> <BR />It is evident that, across Northern Ireland, too many people struggle to find a secure, affordable and decent place to live. Rents are soaring, tenant protection is not robust enough and many tenants face constant battles just to get basic repairs done.”