John O'Dowd
Upper Bann · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“As I set out in response to the previous question, we have in place the vacant property rate relief scheme and the small business rate relief scheme, which are very successful. I set aside £10 million in the draft Budget for small business rate relief to be invested.”
“I am particularly keen to hear from those impacted by vacant commercial units and especially about how any phased increase can be implemented in a sustainable way that is fair, proportionate and sustainable within the tax system.”
“I outlined my intent to take that approach in my statement on 18 November, alongside the fact that reform of rating policy should support growth, make better use of property and ensure that the system is fair, proportionate and aligned with wider economic objectives.”
“The accelerator will operate alongside our highly successful Back in Business scheme, which has helped to bring over 100 vacant high street properties back into use since May 2024. Those issues have been the subject of considerable interest and comment in the Assembly, and it is right that we grasp the nettle now.”
“There are no circumstances in which a hard border would be good for the people of Ireland; it would not be good for anyone. Those who suggest that are being naive at best and dangerous at worst, in the sense of not understanding this society. <BR /> <BR />Rural communities along the border are one and the same.”
“This announcement represents the next step in that. That said, I also put on record my intention to strengthen support for small businesses. In that vein, £10 million has been set aside in the draft Budget to broaden the impact of the small business rate relief scheme in order to increase the number of businesses that can benefit from it.…”
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“In my view, the reporting mechanism is to TEO. We can share the finer details of that with colleagues after the debate. There is also the danger of political interference, so you have to get the balance right in all of those things. I am more than happy to share afterwards any information in relation to accountability mechanisms around the head of the Civil Service. <BR /> <BR />Departments have asked to appoint senior owners and resources to keep the ability to carry the work forward. The Audit Office has said that Departments must produce their strategic workforce plans by March 2028, enabling those to be drawn together for the first Civil Service-wide plan. That creates the structured, system-wide approach to workforce planning that the motion calls for.”
“One sec. <BR /> <BR />I am content to play my part in that, but the people appointed to those roles often inherit mechanisms that sometimes makes their roles more difficult.”
“In my view, the head of the Civil Service reports to TEO. There is not the same structure as you will see in other organisations. Review of that reporting mechanism is important, even, I am sure, for the people who work in the system. Taking the personality element out of it, whoever is head of the service will want a clear reporting mechanism.”
“That, in some ways, responds to Mr Kingston's concern that he gets one answer from me and another from other Departments. Guidance is now available to all Departments. There is a responsibility on senior civil servants to sit down with one another and engage on that guidance, if there are concerns or misunderstandings about it. I will certainly play my part in that as a political leader.”
“I can set that out clearly today, mindful of my previous comments about the role of the PAC in future reports. My Department now has in place the foundations for an agreed strategic workforce plan vision: published guidance; a cross-departmental working group; an active community of practice; a piloted critical-roles tool; and, crucially, the affordable baseline agreed last November. The next phase is delivery. <BR /> <BR />I agree with Members that review upon review upon review becomes tiresome for the public, us as legislators and staff; it is now time for delivery. My Department has asked all Departments to begin strategic workforce planning now, using the guidance and data already available rather than waiting for perfect conditions.”
“To me, an efficient organisation is an organisation that supports its workers and delivery of services; it is not about asking people to do more with less. Critically, the people strategy is aligned with Integr8, the transformation programme that will modernise process delivery and data use and provide an integrated HR and finance technology solution to replace legacy systems. Integr8 will streamline processes; embed modern best practice; reduce manual reconciliation; enhance user experience; and create a single source of truth for roles, skills and costs. HR components will go live from late 2027, locking in the benefits of the reforms that I will describe by giving leaders the data and tools to plan and deliver with confidence. <BR /> <BR />Members have called for a time-bound plan to reform workforce planning across the Civil Service.”
“Our response to the Audit Office report must be anchored in the Civil Service people strategy 2025-2030, which a number of Members have acknowledged and which I launched last year. It is a comprehensive, outcome-focused change programme that is already addressing the Audit Office findings and those of the PAC and incorporating lessons from previous inquiries. Its aims are pragmatic and precise, and the actions in it have set time frames: a decisive shift from reactive to planned workforce management and a better match of skills to meet the size and shape of the organisation, so that efficiency, effectiveness and value for money rise together. <BR /> <BR />I acknowledge what a number of Members have said about what the term "efficiency" means to them.”
“Naturally, our focus turned to keeping people safe, supporting the most vulnerable in society, issuing grants to businesses and community groups and doing what we could to protect lives and livelihoods in the most difficult of times. There was limited bandwidth during the pandemic for Civil Service reform.”
“It has to be a collective responsibility, with all Ministers and Civil Service leaders working together to deliver the changes that we all agree are necessary. <BR /> <BR />The Audit Office report confirms that, of the 23 recommendations set out in the previous report in 2020, five have been achieved, 13 have been partially achieved and five remain not yet achieved. Of the 12 PAC recommendations, three have been achieved, seven have been partially achieved and two remain not yet achieved. It is important to set out the context of what has happened during that time. We have to remember the impact of COVID and how our world was turned upside down during the pandemic. It also has to be recognised that the Civil Service stood up and was counted during the pandemic.”
“I therefore welcome the Audit Office's follow-up report. At this stage, the Public Accounts Committee retains primacy over it, so I have to be careful not to pre-empt or prejudge any evidence that may be given at a subsequent PAC hearing. My comments today therefore reflect work that has been started, published or reported on. I am keen to maintain the momentum that has been built up by that work, but I am cognisant of any potential PAC processes and the protocols to be adhered to in that regard. The report reinforces the need for reform, which must be embraced not just by me as Finance Minister but by every Minister and every senior leader across the Civil Service. If responsibility for transformation is left to one Minister, one Department or one permanent secretary, the opportunities that it offers will not be realised.”
“I welcome the opportunity to respond to the debate. I am grateful for the tone of the debate, which has been supportive of our Civil Service workers, who are doing their job in challenging circumstances. In that spirit, I begin by recognising the people behind the system. Just last week, I had the pleasure of presenting long-service awards to civil servants with decades of service — 50 years and more — who have quietly done a job for the people here, day in and day out. I was pleased to see other Ministers from across the Executive in attendance at that event in recognition of civil servants' valuable contribution. Their dedication is the foundation on which we are building further change and improvement. <BR /> <BR />Everyone in the Chamber wants the Civil Service to be the best that it can be.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“Earlier in Question Time, I set out how the procurement exercise works. Procurement is an area in which there are significant savings to be made through the removal of bureaucracy and through simplification, while protecting public funds. I have presented a number of papers to the Executive in that regard, and I assure you that the team in my Department is more than willing to work with and support other Departments in their understanding of those papers.”
“There is no more jumping through hoops: they can simply get quotes by email, without having to use the eTenders system. I have also removed bureaucracy for the community and voluntary sector.”
“We have cut red tape on low-value procurement. Public bodies, including our schools, can now buy what they need quickly and locally, so long as it is under £50,000, or under £65,000 when it comes to utilities.”
“The Executive have set out their priorities and direction of travel and are doing what matters most for people through the Programme for Government. When we agree a three-year Budget, Ministers will have to decide, based on the Programme for Government and their Budget allocations and priorities, what can move ahead. If there are collective decisions to be made by the Executive, they will make them. There may be decisions that the Executive wish to take about a future direction of travel, but I do not want to pre-empt any of that.”
“I am happy to provide the Member with a list of the efficiencies that my Department has made over the past number of years to ensure that public funds are used in an effective and efficient manner. The way in which the Executive are established means that I have only certain powers, which certain Ministers will be blessed to hear. I cannot go into other Departments and tell them what to do, as much as I would sometimes like to. It is up to each Department, Minister and accounting officer to outline the efficiencies that they have made. If there are services that are either no longer required or are unsustainable, it is up to them to defend whatever decision they make in that regard.”
“I agree with the Member: it cannot be simply three one-year Budgets; it has to be a three-year programme of transformation and delivery. The draft Budget that I have published allows us to do that. As I said to one of his colleagues, we have had constructive engagement at a bilateral level with Ministers about moving to a three-year Budget. I think that it is fair to say that all Ministers want to see a Budget that is transformational, provides first-class public services, removes inefficiencies and ensures that every penny that we have is used to deliver public services and support our economy. A crucial area of that is about delivering capital quicker than is the normal practice. As I said, some of the challenges that we have are not unique to this place. We can learn from other jurisdictions about how we can overcome those challenges.”
“The best way forward for all sectors is for a three-year Budget to be agreed so that Departments have certainty about their allocations. Planning as far in advance as possible is key, particularly for capital programmes. We face challenges in delivering capital projects, a lot of which are not unique to here; you have only to look at England and the South of Ireland to see similarity across a range of issues that delay capital programmes. It is not a matter only for me, as Finance Minister, although I clearly have an interest in the matter; there needs to be a focus across the Executive on how we remove barriers to development while maintaining our support for and protection of the environment and ensuring that public money is used wisely.”
“We have seen the expansion of the small business rate relief scheme. We have seen the continuation of the vacant properties rate relief scheme, which brings businesses into properties that have been vacant for over a year. We have seen the continued rate relief on stand-alone ATMs, which is particularly important for rural communities. I have other proposals on business expansion that I hope to bring forward in the near future. I touched on those yesterday during the debate on Reval2026. Where businesses physically expand, they are immediately hit with a higher rates bill. I would like to see a rates holiday for that expansion, as I think that that would encourage more businesses to expand. That would be good for those businesses and, I suspect, for the construction sector.”
“The consultation closed last week, and my officials are analysing the responses. An initial view is that those responses broadly welcome the proposals that I set out. I hope to make further statements to the Assembly about the next steps in the near future.”
“Some of it may not excite some of the commentators out there, but all the work that my Department and others are involved in makes long-term, positive change to people's lives.”
“I mentioned the achievements of Dr Archibald and me on the additional £1·4 billion in public funds, and we have not stopped yet — engagement with the Treasury and the British Government continues. There is the Deaths, Still-Births and Baby Loss Bill, which is a credit not only to my Department but to the Assembly. A total of £129 million has been announced for transformation projects. My Department has supported businesses by restoring the Back in Business rates exemption, which is attracting new businesses to the high street. We have extended the small business rate relief scheme. There has been a 20-month Civil Service pay deal, and we have progressed the Fiscal Council Bill and the Administrative and Financial Provisions Bill. Work continues across a range of issues.”
“We have seen the introduction of the childcare subsidy scheme. The Executive have prioritised public-sector pay. Of course, there will be challenges on a range of other issues, and Ministers deserve to be held to account on those, but I ask for a balanced debate rather than one with a singular focus.”
“We heard an announcement from the Health Minister last week that 200,000, I think, more people on the elective care list will be seen this year than in the previous year. That in itself is a huge achievement. It is a credit to the health service, and, indeed, to the Health Minister and the Ministers around the Executive table who put a specific focus on it. Allocations to the Department for Infrastructure have contributed to the funding and unlocking of waste water capacity at over 5,000 properties across the North, more than was anticipated in the original plan.”
“That commentary often ignores the achievements that have been made over the past 20 to 25 years. However, no political institution, politician or political activist should rest on their laurels about what has been achieved — we have to continue to move forward. <BR /> <BR />Here is just a short canter through some of what has been achieved. As a result of negotiations with the Treasury since restoration, Caoimhe Archibald and I secured an extra £1·4 billion for services here.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I share his concerns about some of the commentary about the Executive and the Assembly, not only on the role of this institution in delivering and supporting public services but on its wider role of being a framework for the delivery of change that this society requires and so much calls out for.”
“As I set out during my statement yesterday, I was aware of the revaluation implications from October. I believe in open and transparent government, and I believe that that information should have been published. I had already set aside about £10 million in the draft Budget to work with and support small to medium-sized enterprises. The level of concern, however, was such that, after analysing all the information in front of me and its implications, I made my decision. I stand by that decision to stop Reval2026. The question that I put back to the Member is this: what consideration did he give to the implications before he launched his campaign, before his party lodged council motions, before he tabled a motion in the Assembly and before he went off and got his photograph taken in every hostelry in South Belfast?”
“Thank you very much. <BR /> <BR />The Member is now questioning whether he should have called for the stopping of the revaluation process. Is that down to the fact that other sectors are now raising concerns about its implications or to the fact that he had not fully analysed the outworkings of the petition that he launched, of the council motions that his party lodged and, indeed, of the motion that he has tabled for debate in the Assembly calling for Reval2026 to be stopped? Perhaps he should have taken more time to consider the implications of his call to action before he made it. I am satisfied that I have taken the correct decision and that we will now take the time to analyse and decide on the way forward. I analysed my options before I made my announcement, and perhaps that might be the way forward for the Member in the future.”
“I thought that the Member might have started off topical questions by welcoming the anniversary of our working together. The leader of the Opposition and I have now been duelling at the Dispatch Box for a full year. I thought that he might have noted that, but he did not.”
“I have to admire the Member for jumping from rates bills to rating. If he has constituents who are concerned about the level of their rates bill, I encourage them to engage with their local valuer to see whether there is any exercise that LPS can do to assist them or to ensure that they are receiving all the assistance and discounts to which they are entitled.”
“Yes. LPS has plans in place and is taking a coordinated approach to increasing awareness of the new Rates Online service. Those plans include engagement with key stakeholders and representative bodies in order to promote the service and gather feedback to ensure that it meets customer needs.”
“<BR /> <BR />It may be of interest to the Member that it costs somewhere in the region of £600,000 annually to print and issue rates bills. Any reduction in that cost will be very welcome.”
“The new Rates Online service, which was launched on 13 January 2026, represents an important step forward in how we provide services to the public. For the first time, ratepayers can create an online account to view and update their rates information, notify Land and Property Services (LPS) of any changes that affect their liability, and make payments with confidence through a modern and secure platform. Rates Online has been designed to improve the customer experience by expanding opportunities for people to self-serve, increasing transparency around their rating details and offering clearer digital channels for engaging with LPS. It modernises how individuals and businesses can access and manage their rating information and reduces the need for paper-based processes.”
“However, as I have said, growing concerns have been raised in recent times, in particular by the families of the victims of the Manchester Arena attack, who were concerned that organisations and agencies such as MI5 and their agents were not properly covered by the Bill. Given the history of those organisations here in particular, I believe that it is only right and proper that, if a nurse, a teacher or a social worker are to be held to higher standards, the same should apply to those who operate in the world of MI5.”
“The Bill has its origins in the Hillsborough law, which was advocated for by campaigners after it was found by the Hillsborough Independent Panel that police officers lied and changed witness statements in order to protect reputations and that investigations were undermined by a lack of duty of candour. The Bill represents a package of measures to address those failings and others, such as those in the Grenfell tower fire, the infected blood and Horizon scandals and other examples over many years. The Executive agreed that the Bill should form part of our collective response to the infected blood inquiry.”
“The Ceann Comhairle has, helpfully, responded to you. We are not. We were working to time frames, and, throughout that period, I was scrutinising what was happening at Westminster and deliberating on the Bill here. That LCM has now been removed from the Order Paper.”
“Obviously, we want to have confidence in our public bodies through the Bill. There also has to be a clear indication, however, that agencies, including MI5 and others, can and will be held to account.”
“The Public Office (Accountability) Bill and its principles are a positive step forward for public services. In ensuring transparency and enhancing public confidence and trust, it is important that the public sector here is held to the same high standards as its counterparts in Britain. However, I acknowledge the concern that has been expressed by families who were affected by the Manchester stadium attack. They have raised serious concerns about whether the Bill will be able to hold to account a number of agencies, including MI5. It is vital that there is full transparency and that the public have confidence in the Bill. As the Member will be aware, the Assembly and Executive do not have devolved powers with regard to those agencies. Therefore, decisions will have to be made about how we move forward with that Bill.”
“Each year, CPD publishes a report that details the procurement activity that is carried out by all nine centres of procurement. In the 2024-25 report, two CPD centres of procurement expertise awarded 330 contracts with a value of over £1·2 billion, which represents 24% of the total value of contracts awarded. In 2024-25, CPD's supplies and services division had the highest value for service contracts awarded, representing 33% of the total value of service contracts. The collaborative arrangements mechanise the potential for aggregation by CPD and its clients through category management on an agreed range of supplies. These include, for example, the supply of 100% renewable green electricity, banking services, IT equipment, property management, minor construction works and waste and recycling services.”
“If the Member wishes to share with me the clear evidence that he has in that regard, I am more than happy to take a look at that and examine it in closer detail. There is transparency around CPD's work. There are accountability mechanisms in place etc. However, if the Member has evidence that he wishes to bring to my attention, I will commit to looking at it.”
“The fact that we have already started to spend that transformation money across a range of projects shows that the transformation board is delivering its side of the bargain. I hope to be in a position, in the near future, to bring a paper to the Executive on the second tranche of that funding after deliberations by the transformation board. I do not think that the transformation board is the problem; it is part of the solution. Obviously, the final accountable organisation in transformation is the Executive.”
“We have published a new strategic workforce planning guide, which sets out a clear and consistent approach for all Departments, and we have established a monthly community of practice to support its implementation across organisations. <BR /> <BR />In addition, work on the job family framework is being advanced. A full draft has been completed, and it has undergone initial pilot validation. Together, those steps will help to plan the Civil Service workforce more effectively and build capability for the needs in the years ahead.”
“As I said, each Minister and their accounting officer and senior team can and should review their workforce strategy and workforce complement and how they can deliver the services that they are required to deliver, as a Department, with their staff complement and budget. There is nothing to stop any Minister or accounting officer from making decisions now on the much-wanted efficiencies and strategies etc. They have the tools in front of them to do that, and I will continue to give them further tools in that regard. <BR /> <BR />My Department is taking a proactive and structured approach to ensuring that the Civil Service has the right people with the right skills for the future.”
“On the Member's last comment: there are protocols in place that I, as Finance Minister, have to follow in relation to Audit Office reports. <BR /> <BR />My reading of the Audit Office report is that there needs to be collective political leadership around the Executive table. Clearly, I have a role in that, as do other Ministers. As Finance Minister, I have a role in providing the strategies that other Departments should be implementing, particularly in relation to the people strategy, which I launched earlier this year. Sorry, it was last year — we are only in February. That is a significant step forward and will take time to bed in, along with other strategies that have been developed around it. Integr8, when we move to it, will be a great tool for helping to transform our Civil Service.”
“It employs over 25,000 people; it has been operating with and without political leadership for a number of years; it has come through COVID; and it is operating in a very constrained budgetary framework. All that works against its ability to transform. However, the strategies that I have outlined to you today, which I will detail further in the debate later this afternoon, give us the opportunity to put momentum into the programme of change in the Civil Service that everybody accepts is needed. <BR /> <BR />We also have to acknowledge that the vast majority of civil servants are here to deliver and make change and want to play their part in making this a better place for everyone in which to live and work.”
“I am conscious that we are going to have a debate on the subject later. I will be able to go into more detail on my response to the Audit Office report. I am also acutely conscious of the protocols with Audit Office reports. When an Audit Office report is published, it goes to the Public Accounts Committee (PAC), which publishes its report. That report comes to me, as Minister of Finance, and I then collate responses to it and respond to the PAC. I have to be conscious of those protocols and get the balance right, because Member has every right to ask such questions. <BR /> <BR />There are huge challenges in transforming an organisation of the scale of the Civil Service.”
“The interventions in that strategy will strengthen NICS capacity and capability through the job families and professions framework; strategic workforce planning; streamlined recruitment and HR operations; updated HR policies; enhanced line manager capability; and accelerated digital upskilling. Furthermore, my Department also leads a number of other wider reform programmes and initiatives that will support Departments to deliver more effectively.”
“Civil Service reform must be embraced not just by me, as Finance Minister, but by every Executive Minister and senior leader across the Civil Service. If responsibility for transformation is left to just one Minister, one Department or one permanent secretary, the opportunities that it offers will not be realised. It has to be a collective responsibility, with all Ministers and Civil Service leaders working together to deliver the changes that, we all agree, are necessary. <BR /> <BR />For my part, I am fully committed to the reform of the Civil Service, and the people strategy 2025-2030 is my Department’s key programme in that regard.”
“That is the scale of the challenge that the Education Minister, I, as Finance Minister, and the Executive face in trying to balance a Budget that does not have enough funding in it as a result of decades of austerity and in trying to deliver public services moving forward. If we continue with positive engagement at Executive level and the Executive continue to make their voice heard to the British Government on the need to properly fund this place, we can make progress.”