John O'Dowd
Upper Bann · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“As I set out in response to the previous question, we have in place the vacant property rate relief scheme and the small business rate relief scheme, which are very successful. I set aside £10 million in the draft Budget for small business rate relief to be invested.”
“I am particularly keen to hear from those impacted by vacant commercial units and especially about how any phased increase can be implemented in a sustainable way that is fair, proportionate and sustainable within the tax system.”
“I outlined my intent to take that approach in my statement on 18 November, alongside the fact that reform of rating policy should support growth, make better use of property and ensure that the system is fair, proportionate and aligned with wider economic objectives.”
“The accelerator will operate alongside our highly successful Back in Business scheme, which has helped to bring over 100 vacant high street properties back into use since May 2024. Those issues have been the subject of considerable interest and comment in the Assembly, and it is right that we grasp the nettle now.”
“There are no circumstances in which a hard border would be good for the people of Ireland; it would not be good for anyone. Those who suggest that are being naive at best and dangerous at worst, in the sense of not understanding this society. <BR /> <BR />Rural communities along the border are one and the same.”
“This announcement represents the next step in that. That said, I also put on record my intention to strengthen support for small businesses. In that vein, £10 million has been set aside in the draft Budget to broaden the impact of the small business rate relief scheme in order to increase the number of businesses that can benefit from it.…”
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“Those who claim to have Belfast's interests at heart would do well not to broadcast constantly the fact that there is traffic chaos in Belfast. There is traffic congestion in Belfast. Last Thursday night was particularly difficult as a result of traffic accidents on the M1 and M2, the weather conditions and the failure of traffic lights on the Ormeau Road. If Members genuinely have Belfast's interests at heart, let us have a sensible, informed conversation about what is going on so that people who want to travel to Belfast to enjoy the sights and sounds of the festive season feel confident in doing so. <BR /> <BR />I did not say yesterday that the strategic group was meeting daily: I said that it had been meeting daily. Why are business groups not represented on it? It is not the right forum for the business groups.”
“The Member needs to understand the distinct legal entity that is Translink. As I stated yesterday, my Department is not in breach of any planning conditions in relation to the planning application. My Department is working its way through a number of planning matters in Translink's programme of work in and around Grand Central station and other matters. The Member would do well to understand the legal entity that is Translink.”
“<BR /> <BR />I appreciate that there may be some impact on retailers in the area. As a result of that, Translink has reached out to the Linen Quarter Business Improvement District and other agencies to see whether there is an opportunity to work with local retailers to assist them during the transition phase while the works are completed. <BR /> <BR />Once completed, Saltwater Square will be a new public space in the city and one of the major points of the new station. It is envisaged that it will be used in a way similar to Custom House Square for public art, entertainment and leisure activities. It will also be a lively, busy place, providing opportunities for visitors, local residents and commuters.”
“That has included regular engagement with the local retailers' forum and face-to-face engagement with the businesses on Sandy Row in July 2023, and a presentation on the works was given to elected and community representatives in the area in February 2024. An update covering the Durham Street road closure was provided at a local community meeting in April 2024, and there was a letter drop to residents, community groups and businesses on 8 October 2024, providing full details of road closures and associated activity. Feedback from that more recent community engagement highlighted the fact that one of the benefits identified from the temporary closure of Durham Street would be the reduction in through traffic on Sandy Row, which had become an increasing issue for residents in the area.”
“In advance of the planning application in 2017, Translink undertook extensive community engagement in the Sandy Row and Grosvenor Road areas. Much of the feedback received was incorporated into the design for the new station, such as ensuring easy access to Sandy Row from the station, once the project was complete, retaining pedestrian access from Sandy Row to the city centre via the existing Europa bus station and significantly extending public realm works up Sandy Row. <BR /> <BR />I am also aware that Translink has been continually engaged with the local community, including businesses in the area, throughout the design and construction of the new station.”
“I am finalising a policy that I hope to bring to the Executive before the end of this calendar year. I have worked closely with Executive colleagues, particularly the Economy Minister, on that green energy policy and how planning deals with it. When that policy is introduced, it will be of huge benefit to the green energy sector, but it will be balanced with the rights and entitlements of citizens who live in the area where structures may be constructed, because, at times, it is a contested issue. I believe that the work that we have done with Executive colleagues and the Minister for the Economy will pay benefits.”
“The measures taken thus far by my predecessors and others prevented thousands of homes and businesses from being flooded at the weekend and during other flooding events. Yes, there is a lot more work to do, but a lot has been done in that area.”
“One thing that I picked up is that speedy solutions to flooding are not a good idea. Putting in defences or rushing at an issue is not a good idea. You could create a more significant problem not only for the people whom you wish to protect but for other residents who live further downstream or near the area. I am sure that that is frustrating — understandably — for businesses and residents, but we have to get the answers right when putting in physical defences for flooding. I note, however, that my officials were heavily engaged with businesses and residents in areas that were previously affected by flooding in the run-up to Storm Bert, and resilience groups were on standby in areas of south Down as well. They ensured that a supply of sandbags was in place in case flooding occurred.”
“My officials are currently — now — out meeting council planners to discuss their experiences and our experiences of the planning process and how we can learn from and pass on best practice from one council to another and, indeed, my Department. There has been significant improvement in the planning process. A lot of work is still to be done, but we are on the right trajectory.”
“The Member may be aware that we have a planning improvement programme in place, on which there have been regular meetings since the publication of the PAC's report into planning. We are beginning to see improvements based on a number of the recommendations. Better resourcing of planning was a recommendation, and we have done that. Another was to introduce, through legislation, validation checklists when a planning application is submitted, and we have done that.”
“All jurisdictions face similar challenges to me on the financing of flood prevention matters. Interestingly, all areas are looking at how we work with nature on flood risk. There will continue to be a need for hard infrastructure, including concrete defences, albeit they will be put behind much more pleasant facades so you do not just have grey concrete looking at you. All areas are looking at how we work with and use nature to prevent flooding in the first place.”
“They have to, and they do, adhere to the legislation that we, as legislators, put before them.”
“I thank the Member for his question. That is a useful suggestion. We have introduced apprenticeships for our engineers in the Department, which have proved to be quite successful in terms of recruitment. We have to look at all options to make planning an attractive career option to school-leavers and others. It is a very rewarding career. You are, quite literally, shaping the future. You will be involved in the drawing of plans and the approval of plans that will be with us for generations to come, so it is a very rewarding career in that way. It brings its own challenges and it is front facing with the public, but, as I said earlier, we all have to engage with our planning service, whether it is on a one-to-one basis or in public, in a more respectful way and in a way that acknowledges that planners have a very difficult role.”
“I think that planning is crucial in that. Planning will set out how, where and why we live in certain locations and how we connect with each other, what type of buildings we live in, what the infrastructure is around those buildings and how we use our places around us to improve the environment and improve biodiversity. So, planning is a crucial part of tackling climate change. It is a crucial part of tackling the biodiversity crisis as well.”
“The past number of inflationary increases in funding to the Planning Service have allowed it, particularly in councils, to recoup more of its costs so that it can invest in its planning system. I am looking at other ways in which I can support planning, and I have mentioned the transformation fund, which the Executive have made available, a number of times in the House. I have made a bid to that fund to recruit independent examiners for the planning system. That bid is at the final stage, and I am hopeful that it will be successful. If it is successful, it will allow us to address the backlog of planning applications that are before the Planning Appeals Commission.”
“There are areas where there is not only a daytime economy through retail but a night-time economy through socialisation and so on. There are also living towns, where people live and where there are community facilities. People go into those towns late in the evening, not only to socialise but to use the community facilities. It has been an interesting conversation, and it is one that will continue.”
“We looked at how we use our towns differently, not only by supporting retail in town centres but by opening them back up so that they can become areas where people live.”
“I found the engagement, both in the formal setting and at the bilaterals, very useful. It is interesting to note the common opportunities and the common challenges that exist, but, as I said earlier, the challenges are of different scales. Such gatherings are also vital for enabling our officials to get to know one another so that they can establish contact with officials from elsewhere. Those officials can then learn best practice from one another.”
“Spatial planning and how we connect people forms part of that. There was no specific discussion about traffic congestion. We perhaps have to look at roads in a slightly different way than we did 10, 15 or 20 years ago. Roads are no longer simply for cars. Roads are for pedestrians, cyclists, taxis and public transport, and that brings with it its own challenges. As we move forward with our spatial planning strategies, all those matters will be integrated into them. In fact, they have already been integrated. Look at our transport plans. The eastern transport plan, for example, will cover the greater Belfast area. We also look towards Fermanagh and Omagh and towards Derry. We are therefore at an advanced stage with our transport plans. How we use our roads, who uses our roads and why we use our roads are crucial elements.”
“That issue is a forward work stream for the British-Irish Council. It has been placed on the agenda because there is a recognition across the Administrations that recruiting planners to the public sector and retaining them is a challenge. There is a focus on planning, which, at times, is understandable, but everyone has to be encouraged to approach the issue in a respectful and courteous manner and ensure that those who work in the public sector are respected. They have roles to carry out, and, as politicians, we set the policies. It is not the civil servants or planners who set them. They have to administer those policies in a fair and equitable way. I look forward to learning from examples from other Administrations, and, yes, we will share best practice with councils.”
“As I said in my statement, the forward work programme was agreed. The meeting was interesting, both in the formal setting and at the bilaterals that took place. Although the challenges may be of different scales across the jurisdictions, there are many common themes to them, of which climate change is one. The forward work programme will look at climate change and at how we, as planning authorities, ensure that there is a more effective and efficient planning regime going forward. My officials will continue to engage with other jurisdictions on the matter to ensure that, in planning, which is often a contested space, each side of the debate has a fair hearing, that we are able to reach decisions in a more efficient and effective way and that we are able to meet the climate challenge that is coming at us.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am happy to take questions from Members.”
“The Isle of Man Government were represented by Diane Kelsey, Member of Legislative Council and political member on the Cabinet Office Board with delegated responsibility for planning policy. The Government of Jersey were represented by Deputy Steve Luce, Minister for the Environment. The Scottish Government were represented by Ivan McKee, Minister for Public Finance. The British Government were represented by Baroness Taylor of Stevenage, Lords Minister for Housing and Local Government. The Welsh Government were represented by Rebecca Evans, Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning. I place on record my thanks to those ministerial colleagues from across the BIC member Administrations who attended the ministerial meeting, and I look forward to seeing how the forward work plan develops.”
“The work sector will explore ways to attract people and build capacity in the planning profession, with an emphasis on the sharing of knowledge from Administrations that have developed successful approaches to those issues. <BR /> <BR />At the meeting, Ministers also heard from Mark Hand of the Royal Town Planning Institute (RTPI), who gave a presentation on tackling the climate and nature emergencies: opportunities and challenges across the Administrations. <BR /> <BR />As I said, the Executive were represented at the ministerial meeting by myself and junior Minister Cameron. The Government of Guernsey were represented by Deputy Victoria Oliver, President of the Development and Planning Authority. The Government of Ireland were represented by Mr Paul Hogan, assistant secretary for the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage.”
“<BR /> <BR />Member Administrations face the urgent challenge of addressing climate change and the impacts on biodiversity, with limited resources and within a context of continuing planning reforms. The planning and places work sector will identify key challenges and share and learn from examples of best practice. Among the focuses will be managing flood risk; the loss, promotion and enhancement of biodiversity; and delivery of greater carbon efficiency in new developments. <BR /> <BR />Attracting and retaining planning staff in the public sector is also a growing challenge, at a time when many public-sector planners face ever-increasing workloads and continuously changing policy contexts, especially in relation to complex biodiversity and nature issues.”
“<BR /> <BR />The ministerial meeting held on 8 November 2024 in Derry focused on the work that the planning and places work sector had taken forward between 2021 and 2024 in key areas of planning, particularly around the revitalisation of towns and building better places in the context of the COVID recovery. Ministers commended the work that had been done and endorsed both the work sector report and a 'Placemaking in Practice' report, which was compiled following a symposium held in Cardiff in September 2023. <BR /> <BR />Ministers agreed the forward work programme for 2025-27, which focuses on two themes: climate change and the biodiversity emergency; and skills and capacity for the public-sector planning profession.”
“and in compliance with section 52 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, I wish to make the following statement to the Assembly about the British-Irish Council (BIC) planning and places ministerial meeting that I chaired on 8 November 2004 in Derry and at which junior Minister Cameron was also in attendance. <BR /> <BR />Members will be aware that the British-Irish Council, established in 1999, is a forum for its members to discuss, consult and cooperate on matters of mutual interest that are within the competence of its member Administrations. The British-Irish Council planning and places work sector is chaired by my Department on behalf of the Executive. The group provides a constructive forum for sharing best practice on issues of common interest and promotes practical collaboration.”
“Before I formally introduce the statement, I add my sympathies to the friends and family of Jody Gormley. He is a great loss to them and to the entire community. <BR /> <BR />With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle”
“I asked exactly the same question on Friday: why did it take until 11.00 am to repair those lights? Information on why that was has been made public, but I will raise the issue with the strategic group. If elements of our infrastructure, such as old traffic lights, could break down, let us ensure that we have the spare parts accessible and ready to install as quickly as possible.”
“At the risk of sparking another debate about figures and who recognises which figures, I caution against judging how we spend on public transport by comparing it with England, Scotland and Wales. It is not a simple read-across, so I caution against that. <BR /> <BR />I continue to support public transport and keeping it public. I will continue to work with Translink and my Executive colleagues to ensure that we put as much money as possible into subsidising public transport. It is worth noting that, despite the pressures on my budget, I retained free public transport for the over-60s. Tens of thousands of people benefit from that decision alone.”
“My Department is not guilty of any planning breaches.”
“That goes back to the challenge to us all. People attending medical appointments in particular will want to use their private car until they get into the hospital, which is fully understandable. That puts the challenge to the rest of us: if we can use public transport or park-and-ride, we should collectively do that for the benefit of everyone who travels into the city. As I asked earlier, is driving into Belfast city centre and parking your car there all day the best thing to do? Why not park at Sprucefield or one of the other park-and-rides and get the bus in, leaving the space on the road open to others, such as those attending medical appointments, who have to use their private vehicle?”
“As I said, we need to plan our city for all users. The experience across Europe and elsewhere is that our cities will become more congested if we continue to plan them solely on the role of the private car. We all understand why the private car has grown in popularity over the past number of decades, but we cannot continue in that direction. The decision that was taken a number of years ago to increase the bus lanes and cycle lanes on the Dublin Road was right. We have put a bus lane in to allow buses to bring more people into the city centre in a more effective, more efficient and more environmentally friendly manner. That was the right decision. No matter what way you look at it or what routes you put in place, we cannot squeeze any more cars into Belfast city centre. It will not work.”
“You do not have to use public transport every day: using it even one day a week would make a significant difference. <BR /> <BR />Again, I appeal to the minority of drivers who block yellow box junctions in the city centre to stop doing it. We have spoken to the PSNI about the matter, and it will take an interest in cars and vehicles that block the yellow box junctions.”
“The Member has raised that issue with me a number of times and in correspondence. Translink is looking into how we improve the situation for the commuters to whom you refer. I talked about the perfect storm of accidents, broken traffic lights, bad weather etc. There is another part of that perfect storm: the under-resourcing of our public services. Our public transport system is under-resourced. We can supply only so many carriages and so many buses. We are trying to work our way through all of those things and ensure that the public has a comfortable experience when using public transport. <BR /> <BR />For the record, I am saying that public transport is part of the answer. There are other options, including varying your route, varying the time that you leave and using public transport.”
“We will keep that under review, but the works need to be carried out over a certain period of time. We have a contractor in place who is contracted to carry out the work over a period of time. They will have their supply lines in place and teams of workers lined up etc for the agreed dates. Intervening now could be at substantial cost to the public purse, but we will keep those matters under review.”
“Working from home one day a week or three days a week — whatever suits the employee and the business — is a matter between the employee and the business. We have to use imaginative approaches, however, and working from home is not imaginative any more; it has been going on for three or four years now. We have to use all approaches to alleviate traffic congestion in Belfast city centre. <BR /> <BR />As I have said repeatedly, there is no major engineering solution available. If we are waiting for the Minister or the Department to come forward with a major engineering solution, we will be waiting for a very long time. Let us look at it in a new and constructive way and all play our part, including the media.”
“The BBC headline is unfair to that official, who conducted a 50-minute interview with Mr Nolan this morning and went through in great detail the work that he and my Department are doing regarding Belfast city centre. In fairness to the official, he has led on the issue and given it a lot of his time and dedication. The BBC took one sentence out of a 50-minute interview and made it the headline. There is a responsibility on the media to be fair in such matters and for them to use their organisations to spread an informed message. <BR /> <BR />The official said in broad terms that there are a number of elements to what we can do. He talked about using public transport, about varying the times at which people leave for home and, yes, about working from home.”
“Taxi drivers in particular are having a difficult time at this time plying their trade around the city centre as a result of the traffic congestion. In Dublin, for instance, taxis use the bus routes, and buses and taxis appear to cohabit. As I said, we will run a pilot scheme, and we will see what comes out of it.”
“The Member will be aware that I have already ring-fenced significant investment in the Coleraine to Derry line as part of my commitment to addressing regional imbalance. <BR /> <BR />Will it be for Christmas? No. The consultation that I have do means that the legislation permitting taxis to use bus lanes will not be in place for Christmas. It will be after Christmas, and it will be a pilot scheme. We are putting in place a pilot scheme to learn the impact that taxis have in and out of bus lanes. As the Member reminded me, it is not a universally popular decision, but there are a number of factors involved. Taxis are a form of public transport, and the people who drive them rely on doing so for their employment.”
“People may have to start their journey in their car and then park at a park-and-ride or at a train station, but, if they complete their journey into the city centre by public transport and start their journey back out of the city centre by public transport, journeys will be much more comfortable for everyone.”
“All major roadworks have been suspended since 25 November. There may have been issues as a result of Storm Darragh on Saturday that affected a number of the roads and routes. I have no information to suggest that, but we are three weeks away from Christmas. There is always significant traffic volume in and around Belfast in the run-up to Christmas, because people want to come into the city centre to do their Christmas shopping and so on. <BR /> <BR />I fully accept that the closure of Durham Street adds to the traffic congestion in the city centre and that that is a new element to the equation, but the message remains the same. Thousands upon thousands of people come into the city centre by public transport daily.”
“When you ask about closures, do you mean roadworks?”
“If we were planning the city centre for cars or other vehicles, it would be very easy. If we were planning it for pedestrians only, it would be very easy. If we were planning if for cyclists or public transport only, it would be very easy. The fact of the matter is that we have a city centre that has multifunctional use by multiple groups of people. Pedestrians, motorists, cyclists and others use that shared space, and we have to plan for the safety of them all.”
“I recall the Question Time when the Member asked me that question. It has been constantly under review, because one of our concerns is whether there is enough space on the footpaths at that junction for the number of pedestrians who gather there to cross the road. We were concerned that there could have been an accident. Even if a vehicle is turning slowly round that junction, if it hits a pedestrian, the pedestrian would come off worse. Yes, it is under review, and we will keep it under review to ensure that the right decision is in place at that time. At this moment in time, we are satisfied that the right decision is to keep that junction closed, but, as I say, we will keep that under review. <BR /> <BR />If we were planning a city centre for one group of users, it would be easy.”
“That is how transport will be in the future. I am committed to investing in public transport as we move forward, and doing so will encourage more and more people to use it.”
“Efficient and effective public transport is one way of doing it, and providing the infrastructure for active travel is another way of doing it. We are doing both, and we are investing in both. The significant investment in Belfast Grand Central station is, in itself, a statement on what the future will look like. The future will be about using public transport more and more. <BR /> <BR />It is not about doing away with private cars completely. Private cars will still form part of our transport systems, albeit they will be fuelled differently from how they are currently fuelled. As people enter major towns and cities on this island and other islands, they will increasingly find that the closer they get to the city or the town, the more it will be to their benefit to park up and get on to public transport to complete their journey.”
“That is why the work is being carried out on the Sydenham bypass at this stage.”
“When we plan significant traffic works, we look at how they impact on other schemes in other areas. The Sydenham bypass work had been delayed for a number of years for that very reason: because we did not want to see further congestion in different areas. However, the Sydenham bypass had got into such a state of disrepair that we could wait no longer to carry out that work.”
“As I said, if you are driving into the city in the morning and are parking up all day and then driving out at 5.00 pm, you are part of the congestion. <BR /> <BR />If you say to yourself, "I am going to use public transport on one day of the week", that will significantly decrease congestion in the city centre and will assist others who have to move about, as well as the public transport, which also has to move about. One day is all that we are asking from some people. Others may want to do it more often. <BR /> <BR />As I said to Mr O'Toole, all major roadworks are suspended and have been suspended — we have done that in other towns — since 25 November in order to assist with the Christmas traffic and the rush that happens at Christmas.”