John O'Dowd
Upper Bann · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“As I set out in response to the previous question, we have in place the vacant property rate relief scheme and the small business rate relief scheme, which are very successful. I set aside £10 million in the draft Budget for small business rate relief to be invested.”
“I am particularly keen to hear from those impacted by vacant commercial units and especially about how any phased increase can be implemented in a sustainable way that is fair, proportionate and sustainable within the tax system.”
“I outlined my intent to take that approach in my statement on 18 November, alongside the fact that reform of rating policy should support growth, make better use of property and ensure that the system is fair, proportionate and aligned with wider economic objectives.”
“The accelerator will operate alongside our highly successful Back in Business scheme, which has helped to bring over 100 vacant high street properties back into use since May 2024. Those issues have been the subject of considerable interest and comment in the Assembly, and it is right that we grasp the nettle now.”
“There are no circumstances in which a hard border would be good for the people of Ireland; it would not be good for anyone. Those who suggest that are being naive at best and dangerous at worst, in the sense of not understanding this society. <BR /> <BR />Rural communities along the border are one and the same.”
“This announcement represents the next step in that. That said, I also put on record my intention to strengthen support for small businesses. In that vein, £10 million has been set aside in the draft Budget to broaden the impact of the small business rate relief scheme in order to increase the number of businesses that can benefit from it.…”
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“I welcome the opportunity to speak at this stage of the Bill. As Mr Storey has pointed out, integrated education already has legislative protection. It and the Irish-medium sector enjoy that protection. That protection to encourage and facilitate has meant that the Department of Education has had to carry out a number of functions, including the funding of NICIE. The first thing that I say to myself is this: if the Bill passes, there will be no need for NICIE, because the Department will have fulfilled its statutory duty to encourage and facilitate.”
“I beg to introduce the Small Scale Green Energy Bill [NIA 33/17-22], which is a Bill to make provision for the establishment of a scheme to promote the microgeneration of renewable electricity; and for connected purposes.”
“<BR /> <BR />I also note the comments on training, how often qualified drivers require training and how drivers access the taxi industry. Of course, there has to be safety for drivers, passengers and other road users. When you look at the timescales involved, however, a review is required. A review of fares is also required. As everyone who runs a private, family car knows, costs are always increasing. The costs, such as insurance, that are associated with running a taxi have increased. <BR /> <BR />I congratulate the Committee on its motion. Hopefully, the motion will be agreed today, and, as a result, we will see delivery for our taxi drivers.”
“Moreover, the taxi industry brings in staff who are finding it difficult to find work elsewhere, and, as has also been said, the unsociable hours suit some workers. However, I urge that, even with the introduction of technology, basic workers' rights should be protected. We do not want the gig economy to create a scenario where taxi drivers have fewer rights than they have now. <BR /> <BR />The case has been made for financial support. The industry and the drivers need financial support. I urge the Minister to do everything in her power to bring that forward. I recognise the Committee's work, some of which I have followed. The Committee, including my colleagues, lobbied intensively on taxi drivers' behalf. The case is made; now, taxi drivers need to see it delivered.”
“I look at them and say, "That will be difficult for you, because there are very few already". Transport in rural communities is provided by taxis. If you do not have access to a car and the chances of you getting a bus are limited, you rely on a taxi. Taxis are a vital support for rural communities and those who are vulnerable or isolated. Taxis are not only about coming to pick you up to take you to where you are going. Often, they provide an important link for the elderly, the isolated and the lonely through the conversation that takes place on the taxi run, such as, "How are you keeping? Is everything OK? Do you need anything? Are you supposed to be at the doctor's?". Taxi drivers complete many tasks.”
“Sometimes, as Minister, your focus and that of your Department is on what you cannot do rather than on what you can do. The approach required for taxi drivers is this: what can the Department do and what can be done in conjunction with other Departments to support those drivers? As a number of people said, COVID has brought a reality check to many of us or, at least, to society. We took many roles and jobs in our society for granted, whether they were shop workers, taxi drivers or even, in some instances, healthcare workers. We now realise that our society cannot operate without many of our service industries, and taxis are one of those. <BR /> <BR />When I meet Translink and others to talk about funding opportunities for services, they tell me that, if they do not get more funding, they will cut rural bus services.”
“I apologise to those Members for whose contributions I was not in the Chamber. I have been listening to the debate from my office and have been back and forth. <BR /> <BR />There is general acceptance in the Chamber that our taxi industry and taxi drivers require support. There may be disagreement on where that support comes from and how it is delivered, but that is the nature of politics. The taxi industry and the drivers will want to know only when they will get the support. <BR /> <BR />If I may, I offer the Minister some advice on the next steps. I am a wee bit like the previous Member to speak, who hankers back to the ring of steel: sometimes I hanker back to when I was the Minister — once too often sometimes, perhaps.”
“Yesterday's significant announcement of €40 million from the Shared Island Fund for universities was welcome. Did Minister Foley give any indication that the Dublin Government are also interested in using funding from the Shared Island Fund for education, particularly along the border? Will the Minister lobby Minister Foley for such an investment in shared education along the border from that fund?”
“Mr Weir may have just set a pub quiz question: which former Minister asked a question on a statement on a matter for which he was responsible?”
“I am not speaking on behalf of the Business Committee, but, with the amount of legislation that is coming towards us, it will have a difficult task in the months ahead to ensure that all business is tabled promptly so that the legislation that we need to pass moves forward.”
“We had two Matters of the Day, which was one hour, a ministerial statement, which was one hour, and a question for urgent oral answer, which was another half an hour. Therefore, roughly two and a half hours were added to today's business. Business can change and move accordingly, and the Speaker is responsive to requests for that. However, if we are to ensure that the Building becomes family-friendly for MLAs and the staff who work in it, we have to be conscious of the business that we put in the Order Paper. <BR /> <BR />I am not opposed to the motion, but I flag it up that significant business is going through the Assembly already. This is another option — it will be an interesting option — that will add further business to the Order Paper.”
“Although I was not planning to speak, I want to make an observation as a member of the Business Committee but not on behalf of the Business Committee. It is worth noting that today's business was extended by two and a half hours. The Business Committee met last Tuesday and set out today's business, but, if my memory serves me right, two and a half hours of business were added since.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer, and I welcome the intervention that his Department has made, particularly the latest top-up payments to many businesses that were relying on them. <BR /> <BR />Has the Minister any thoughts on businesses that have multiple premises? Will support be offered to them?”
“Mr Allister will have to learn the difference between speaking from the back of a trailer to loyalists and, when addressing Members in the Chamber, speaking to the people who represent his fellow citizens on this island <BR /> <BR />I ask the Speaker's Office to examine carefully Mr Allister's behaviour in the Chamber yesterday.”
“On a point of order, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. I informed your office that I was going to raise a point of order today about Mr Allister's comments in the Chamber yesterday. When asking a question of the joint First Minister, Michelle O'Neill, he referred to her "poisonous agenda" with regard to her support for an Irish language Act. I ask that the Speaker's Office look not only at Mr Allister's comments but at the manner and tone in which they were delivered. I found both unacceptable. <BR /> <BR />At times, I find Mr Allister's approach to Members quite aggressive, particularly when he is addressing women in the House, which I find particularly shocking.”
“Minister, the head of Invest NI said that there has been significant interest in inward investment as a result of the protocol. There are businesses in my constituency that are creating and sustaining jobs as a result of the protocol. Of course, some businesses face challenges, but many are looking for opportunities to create jobs and prosperity. However, they are concerned that the Minister's political stance will stop his Department offering them the much-needed support that they require to create jobs and prosperity.”
“It is good to hear about progress across a range of issues in NDNA. Will the Minister give an update on the adoption and children Bill?”
“Minister, in your statement, you mentioned that the Health Research Board in the South has extended its policy to cover research institutions in the North, such as our universities. That is a very welcome move, and it will further enhance our universities' standing. Will that move replace the funding that was lost as a result of Brexit? Will it allow our universities to access EU research grants that were lost as a result of Brexit?”
“Gordon, in his usual form, said, "What would we want to go there for?". I said, "Because it's beautiful", and there was a wee bit of banter about north Down and Lough Neagh etc. Unfortunately, we will not get him to the shores of Lough Neagh now, and I regret that deeply. <BR /> <BR />I will miss Gordon. I enjoyed his company. He was a determined politician in his own way, as others have said, and he represented his constituents well. As my mother said about people, he was a civil craythur. That was the most outstanding thing about him. I offer his family and friends my deepest sympathy.”
“I want to add my tribute to Gordon. I got to know Gordon when I was Education Minister, and, a wee bit like Peter, I was lobbied constantly about schools in Holywood. He invited me to Holywood one day. I arrived at the first school, and there was a police outrider sitting on a motorbike. He said, "John, I've organised you an escort". We went round two or three schools with the motorbike escorting me around Holywood, and, when we got to the third school, I said, "Gordon, I've been escorted out of a few places by the police, but I've never been escorted around by the police". He had a great laugh at that. <BR /> <BR />In recent times, I got to know Gordon on the Economy Committee. As the Chair said, every meeting started off with a bit of banter from Gordon and a joke. We were planning to have a meeting on the shores of Lough Neagh.”
“The Member may think that those are my words, but they are the words of the leader of his party, Edwin Poots. Are you committed to NDNA or not?”
“I note the Member's rising costs, which have no bearing on reality. Does he recognise these words:”
“Those matters, particularly childminding and family-friendly working times and environment, are under consideration. The COVID pandemic put a number of those measures on hold, but the Commission has looked at that area and will want to make progress in order to ensure that our procedures and practices allow for the full involvement of all in the Assembly and its structures.”
“The Member makes an important comment. The Assembly Commission Clerk is here taking notes, and I am sure that she will be more than happy to engage with you on your experiences to see how we fit that into any induction programme.”
“The Assembly Commission recognises that induction requirements are multifaceted, and, to that end, Commission officials will continue to provide support to new Members around the role and responsibilities of an MLA. That includes sessions with the Business Office on Assembly procedures and Standing Orders, sessions with the Bill Office on the legislative process and sessions with Committee Clerks on the role of Statutory and Standing Committees. There will be a continued focus on continuing professional development (CPD) to support all MLAs in their roles as legislators and public representatives.”
“The Member induction and development framework will include a programme of activities that will be available to all Members from the start of the next mandate. The induction aspect of the programme will expand on work that was carried out at the beginning of previous mandates and will include Members being provided with an induction handbook, containing key information and contacts, so that all new MLAs can access all the services that they require within Parliament Buildings to enable them to settle in as quickly as possible. <BR /> <BR />That is only one aspect of the wider welcome and orientation programme that Assembly Commission officials are developing to assist newly elected and returning MLAs with practical arrangements during the first few days and weeks following their election.”
“Before answering that question, I thank Keith for his contribution to the Commission over the last year or so. Despite a small number of disagreements, we have always worked together on the Commission in a courteous and professional manner. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Member for his question. As MLAs, we all know that the first few weeks of Assembly life can be daunting for newly elected Members. The Assembly Commission therefore understands the importance of providing those Members with an appropriate induction programme. Indeed, the Assembly Commission implemented an induction programme for new MLAs at the outset of the new mandate in 2016. <BR /> <BR />In advance of the next Assembly election, the Assembly Commission's Clerking and Member Support Office will expand the previous induction programme.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. Rural dwellers will welcome any additional funding for rural roads, given the state that some of them are in. <BR /> <BR />Will that investment be affected by what the Minister had to say in her statement this morning? Will rural dwellers now have to wait longer for rural roads to be repaired?”
“Importantly, we will also be supporting employers to support their workers who are bereaved. There is assistance and support for everyone concerned. <BR /> <BR />I support the principles of the Bill. I look forward — if that is the right term — to examining the Bill on its journey through the Committee. I hope that we can keep common cause and, in conjunction with the Minister, make the amendments required to ensure that we have a piece of legislation that meets the needs of our society as it moves forward. I hope that we can offer a little piece of comfort to those families who face the worst nightmare of any parent in suffering the death of a child, and to those who have suffered miscarriage.”
“Others, whose lives have moved on and who have forgotten the incident or who have other things going on, do not even realise, at times, that that woman is remembering that event on that day of each year. I am not saying that she does not remember it throughout the year. Of course she remembers it throughout the year, but it is a loss that she will remember on that day. We have to help and support bereaved workers in those instances. <BR /> <BR />Mervyn mentioned that this is a package for workers. The Assembly is often accused of not supporting workers. There is some validity to that point, but it is important that we bring forward legislation to support workers who have been bereaved. They are parents first and foremost, but they are workers in those circumstances.”
“The broader principles of it are OK, but we can improve on it and learn from the experiences of other jurisdictions. Christopher said that we are at the start of the conversation in relation to this Bill. If that conversation continues in the same tone as today, we can bring forward a complete piece of legislation that meets the needs of all those who have suffered a loss and bereavement relating to pregnancy. <BR /> <BR />There is some unity in the House on the issue of miscarriage, and we have to legislate for it. A miscarriage has a devastating impact on the woman, on the relationship and on the couple. That is carried throughout life. In many instances, women in particular mourn that loss in silence on the date that it happened for years to come, as busy family life goes on around them.”
“Much of what I hoped to speak about has been covered. I am glad to see that there is general agreement in the Chamber in relation to this Bill. I acknowledge the role of the previous Minister in relation to the Bill. She drove it forward, and for understandable reasons. <BR /> <BR />Everyone will note that there is quite a sombre mood in the Chamber. We have heard some examples of loss of children and siblings. Everybody can reflect on their own experiences and their loved ones' experiences of those circumstances. If the Assembly can help bereaved parents in this way, then it should do everything in its power to help them. <BR /> <BR />As has been said, the Bill is an example of legislation that has passed through other legislatures.”
“That news will be very welcome to those affected. The £10,000 and £25,000 grants that have been announced will hopefully be issued this month to businesses that missed out on some of the grants and will also be very welcome. However, there is another group. Despite the economic downturn, there have still been businesses that opened up in the last year. Those businesses may not have been able to avail themselves of any of those grants. Will there be support coming forward for those businesses?”
“The Member may be appointed as an Executive Minister later today. In doing so, he will have to sign a Pledge of Office, which makes it quite clear that he will have to tackle criminality and paramilitarism. If the Member is going to stand by his word, will he, therefore, not meet the Loyalist Communities Council until the gangs that it is associated with disband?”
“I welcome the Minister's statement and answers, thus far. The Minister's statement on the work of the intergovernmental collaboration concentrates on tackling organised crime and criminal gangs that operate across these islands. Does it undermine the work of the Minister, and the work of other agencies, when parties in the House are courting the like of the Loyalist Communities Council (LCC), which represents or speaks for criminal and organised gangs? They court them in a political cause, on one day, and, on the next day, the Minister has to come to the House and talk about how other government agencies are tackling their work. Will she comment on that and give a view as to whether her work is being undermined by those who do that?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. I welcome her express view that increased support should not lead to increased fees from the universities; that is a very important matter. One issue that I want to raise is that postgraduate students from here who have paid their taxes and whose families have paid their taxes do not get any support if they go to study in the South, but, if they move to Britain, they get support. One of the perverse reactions to that is that we may lose those students to Britain, because it seems that a large number of students who go to Britain do not return. Will the Minister ensure that students from here who are studying in the South will also receive support because it is fair and equitable and to ensure that we can keep them closer to home?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. Given the fact that these institutions were re-established on the basis of New Decade, New Approach, does she agree that it is time for not only the Executive but the British and Irish Governments to ensure that it is fully implemented?”
“Minister, there is very little in your speech that I could disagree with. In fact, I said much of it in my time as Minister of Education. I did not often quote Winston Churchill, but I emphasised that a village is required to raise a child and that it requires a community to educate a child. Minister, how will you work with your Executive colleagues to ensure that the Executive, as mentioned in some of your previous answers, take on the mantle of ensuring that our education system works for all its young people?”
“I have not had an opportunity to study the report in detail, but, contrary to what Mr Humphrey says, the report identifies that there are problems for working-class boys who are in receipt of free school meals regardless of their religious background. That needs to be the Department's focus. It is working-class young people who are being disadvantaged by the system we have in place.”
“Given the significance of the fish kill in this incident and too many other incidents of pollution of riverways, lakes or loughs, does the Minister believe that the protections and enforcement in place are sufficient to protect our natural habitats?”
“Will the Minister ensure that high-speed rail connectivity is matched with local rail connectivity and bus connections in towns such as Lurgan, Portadown and Craigavon?”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. It appears that the DUP are not only boycotting North/South Ministerial Council meetings but boycotting holding to account Ministers who attend North/South Ministerial Council meetings. We have five DUP MLAs in the Chamber today, including the Chair of the scrutiny Committee. I am not aware of one of them asking you a question. Perhaps they would have been safer staying at home. <BR /> <BR />Minister, on your statement and North/South high-speed rail connectivity, as I have said to you before, it will be a lost opportunity if we have trains speeding from Belfast to Dublin or from Derry to Cork and the towns in between do not achieve any economic potential from that.”
“Are there different ways to support rural communities? Of course there are. I support the green new deal. There is a debate on how we move forward, but we have to move forward.”
“We create well-paid, meaningful jobs that are fit for the 21st century in the circumstances of a green new deal. We retrofit our homes. We build homes that use less energy, use no energy whatever in some circumstances or certainly use renewable energy. We ensure that the innovation that exists in our society is exploited to the maximum. There are many examples from around the world of where countries and societies have started to move to renewable energy, different forms of energy, different ways of production and different ways of doing a lot of things. We can copy those, but we can also, as we have shown time and time again, innovate and lead the world. <BR /> <BR />I will end on this point: saying to rural communities, "You will have to do without your car", is not a way forward. Rural communities do not have transport options.”
“There is an acknowledgement as well that, if we do not tackle climate change and the adverse weather conditions that face us, the earlier introduction of the seasons, the loss of pollinating insects and all those other things that are happening now to the farming community, farming does not have a great future. Farmers want to see change. Rightly, however, they ask questions. <BR /> <BR />The consultation that the AERA Committee has launched gives all sections of society a huge opportunity to come forward and have their voices heard to help to shape the Climate Change Bill to ensure that it delivers climate action, delivers an opportunity for a green new deal and delivers for our economy, which, as I said, will be a new economy. <BR /> <BR />How do we ensure that workers do not pay the price for it?”
“What we need is a fair and equitable transition to a just, new society. That has to include all of our society. <BR /> <BR />Many have rightly talked about the farming and rural community, where there are concerns about the debate and the discussion on climate change. There are concerns about the targets that have been set. People ask, "Well, how is it just for the farming community?". Significant parts of my constituency are rural and have a farming community, and I engage with them as much as anyone else. It is clear to me that, if you want to look at a sector that is familiar with transition, change and accepting that it has to adapt to the circumstances in front of it, it is the farming community. They have had to do it down through the years to survive.”
“Let us learn from the Industrial Revolution. The Industrial Revolution brought great things to many people across the globe; it also brought the damage to the environment that we live with now. It damaged, in many ways, not only the environment; workers paid a heavy price in the early and mid stages of the Industrial Revolution. Let us ensure, through the green new deal, that workers are not the ones who pay the price of the green new deal and that the tax burden is not placed on workers and families as we move to bring in the green new deal. When I talk about the tax burden, I am talking about direct taxation or indirect taxation. There is no point in giving the wealthy more tax breaks to buy greener houses, greener bigger cars and greener holidays. That is a waste of an opportunity.”
“In general, Members agree that action needs to be taken. There may be differences of opinion on what action has to be taken, the speed of that action, who pays for it and all those things. However, the one thing that, I think, we all agree on is this: climate action has to be taken. Therefore, we need a green new deal. I think that, among the public, there is huge support for or acknowledgement of the fact that climate action has to be taken. I suspect that the same debate is taking place: what action do we need to take, and who pays for it? <BR /> <BR />The action that we need to take will probably be the biggest change in production since the Industrial Revolution. That is the scale of the change that we need across the globe to change the damage that has already been done to the climate and to ensure that there is not further damage.”
“Minister, is it not the case that those political parties that meet the LCC give that group a status that it does not deserve? While I wholly recognise that everyone should make efforts to encourage groups to disarm and disband, meeting these groups in common cause for political objective is the wrong way forward, and the only item on the agenda — not the first item and not the last item — for these meetings should be this: when are you disbanding?”
“The tone of the debate thus far has been largely respectful, apart from a number of contributions. In particular, I ask Mr Storey, who may be destined for high office, to reflect on his contribution, especially his latest contribution. There are strong differences in the Chamber about the past, but, if we are to work together in the future, we will have to learn to respect one another in the Chamber and outside of it.”