John O'Dowd
Upper Bann · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“As I set out in response to the previous question, we have in place the vacant property rate relief scheme and the small business rate relief scheme, which are very successful. I set aside £10 million in the draft Budget for small business rate relief to be invested.”
“I am particularly keen to hear from those impacted by vacant commercial units and especially about how any phased increase can be implemented in a sustainable way that is fair, proportionate and sustainable within the tax system.”
“I outlined my intent to take that approach in my statement on 18 November, alongside the fact that reform of rating policy should support growth, make better use of property and ensure that the system is fair, proportionate and aligned with wider economic objectives.”
“The accelerator will operate alongside our highly successful Back in Business scheme, which has helped to bring over 100 vacant high street properties back into use since May 2024. Those issues have been the subject of considerable interest and comment in the Assembly, and it is right that we grasp the nettle now.”
“There are no circumstances in which a hard border would be good for the people of Ireland; it would not be good for anyone. Those who suggest that are being naive at best and dangerous at worst, in the sense of not understanding this society. <BR /> <BR />Rural communities along the border are one and the same.”
“This announcement represents the next step in that. That said, I also put on record my intention to strengthen support for small businesses. In that vein, £10 million has been set aside in the draft Budget to broaden the impact of the small business rate relief scheme in order to increase the number of businesses that can benefit from it.…”
The complete record
Every one of 6,140 lines we hold for John O'Dowd, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 56 of 123.
“<BR /> <BR />Under the review of public administration, the Executive agreed to transfer significant planning functions to local government, a decision that remains right and proper as it allows communities to hold their councils accountable for how they discharge their planning functions. Councils, as individual, sovereign political authorities, therefore have a hugely important leadership role in delivering the main operational aspects of the system. That includes taking decisions on all planning applications for telecommunications development and producing local development plans, including local policies for telecommunications development, a process fundamental to the reform-led system and for the effective enforcement of planning control.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. In response to the Chair's comments, just before we broke for lunch: the matters raised by the umbrella group for the mobile phone industry were the same as the issues raised with me by Vodafone UK when I met it, and we had an opportunity to discuss those. <BR /> <BR />As I said, there is a push for permitted development. I think that that is a mistake, but, as I committed to earlier, we will continue to work with the mobile phone industry and others to ensure that everything is being done so that we have appropriate development of that and other industries across rural and other areas.”
“Some residents have also had concerns that, in some instances, have been ill-informed. It is only right and proper that, when new significant development is proposed in an area, communities have a right to raise their concerns and that those are dealt with appropriately through planning legislation.”
“That is, rightly, chaired by local government, which, in this instance, is a representative from Belfast City Council. Both groups also include industry representatives. I note Members' concern about the fact that the group has met only twice. Following the debate, I will undertake to go back and see what barriers there are to the barrier busting task force's meeting. I will see whether we can ensure that the group meets more regularly and that the issues that are at the heart of concerns are dealt with in a way that they can be. <BR /> <BR />I suspect that some in the industry are seeking permitted developments for new masts etc, but I do not think that that is the road to go down. Some Members expressed concerns about the visual impact that telecommunications masts can have in rural communities.”
“If they wish to write to me again, I will give it due consideration, as I do all invites to meet. <BR /> <BR />Since 2019, officials have continued to sit on the SRN working group, building a constructive working relationship with Mobile UK to help ensure that the initiative is progressed across the region. The Department was previously represented on a DFE cross-sectoral working group that led engagement with the industry and oversaw the publication of the mobile action plan on 23 June 2022. The mobile action plan sets out eight actions, including the creation of a DFE-led barrier busting task force, which commenced later that year. <BR /> <BR />My Department is represented on that body, and officials have participated in the planning subgroup of the barrier busting task force.”
“My Department maintains a positive working relationship with mobile operators, and my officials remain committed to working constructively with the industry and other key stakeholders. <BR /> <BR />I will turn to the criticism of me in the motion. Criticism of a Minister or a Member is fair enough, and, when justified, it is even fairer. Nevertheless, I want to put on the record that I have had two invites to meet from the telecommunications industry. One was from the umbrella group, which I did not fulfil, and senior officials attended it. The other one was from Vodafone UK, which I did fulfil, and I met that group. I have had no other correspondence from any other representatives of the mobile phone industry on their concerns about the planning system or about my role or the role of the barrier busting task force.”
“Any objections that are raised are also assessed. Some of those objections may be major or minor, but they have to be fully interrogated and investigated before a decision can be made. I understand why people would want to have a speedy planning process. That is perfectly justifiable for a variety of reasons, but we also have to have an effective and efficient process. <BR /> <BR />It is worth noting that it is right to deliver for rural communities across the North when it comes to increasing mobile network coverage, but it is also right that our planning system is capable of protecting communities and long-term public interests from inappropriate development proposals.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is worth pointing out that we have a planning system that is based on the rights of the applicant and of the objector, concerned resident, neighbour or whoever it may be. We could have a 100% success rate for any application if we simply had a planning application process in which someone applies and gets approval. On the other side of that, we could have a situation in which, if someone objects, nothing goes ahead. However, that is not the system that we operate. We have a system in which an applicant is invited to submit an application. The key to the success of that application, in my opinion, is that it is fully formatted and has all the information that is required when it is submitted. It then goes through a number of processes to ensure that it meets planning policy and regulations etc.”
“I also suspect that the gains made so far will improve mobile coverage in our rural areas. <BR /> <BR />I turn now to the suggestion in the motion that major delays in the planning process have jeopardised the Shared Rural Network initiative. The planning system and the council planning authorities have played a key enabling role in the delivery of telecommunications infrastructure over recent years. Members will be interested to note that official planning statistics for the period April 2021 to March 2024 indicate that 165 planning applications for telecoms development have been approved. That demonstrates that the planning system is supporting appropriate proposals.”
“<BR /> <BR />I fully support the public investment in, and roll-out of, the 4G Shared Rural Network initiative, and I am pleased to note the considerable progress that has been made by participating network operators. Ofcom is responsible for measuring each operator's coverage to ensure that it has met the individual requirements under its licence obligations. On 12 September, Ofcom published a statement on mobile network operators' compliance with their SRN geographical coverage obligations for June 2024. Members will be pleased to learn that Ofcom noted that BT, EE, Virgin Media O2 and Vodafone met the 88% UK-wide threshold, including coverage obligations for the North. I expect that Ofcom will update its assessments in the coming months to confirm that Three has also since met its obligation threshold.”
“I welcome the opportunity to respond to the motion on the very important topic of mobile infrastructure in rural areas, and I welcome the contributions from Members during the debate. I fully agree with the need for high-quality mobile coverage in rural communities and, indeed, in urban parts of the region too. A modern and efficient telecommunications infrastructure is an essential and beneficial element of everyday living for our people and our visitors. Improving our digital infrastructure is vital to our economy, and planning has a crucial role to play in supporting the delivery of that infrastructure and facilitating appropriate proposals that deliver a high level of connectivity, while ensuring that the provision of such infrastructure is sited and designed to keep environmental impacts to a minimum.”
“I accept that the motion has come forward in good faith. We want to move forward the green agenda, and we will certainly support that. We also want to move forward the planning agenda, and we will work together on that. Working with councils and others, I see progress being made. We have a huge hill to climb, but fundamental reform will delay the changes that we require in our planning system. At a later date, if the Assembly or Executive wish to bring forward fundamental reform, it will open up a can of worms, and some of your council colleagues may not be too keen on you suggesting that we take powers away from them. Just be careful what you wish for.”
“Some of the criticism that they face on social media and elsewhere is totally unacceptable and has an impact on them. In fairness, I have never known it to happen in the Chamber. We live with the rough and tumble of politics, and we face those things, and they have an impact on us too. I appeal to those who feel that it is appropriate to make certain comments on social media and elsewhere about our planners to desist and remember that they are talking about their neighbours or their family friends. Those people are dedicated to our community. They want to do their best for our community, and they are working to do the best for our community. I fully support them and endorse their campaign for well-being and support for their fellow professionals. <BR /> <BR />Now is not the time for a fundamental reform of our planning system.”
“These debates are useful, and we can have an informed debate about these things. You have to dig deep into some of the issues to fully understand the different contexts of what is going on and what can cause delays. Often, we find it difficult to get a response when we go back to some applicants and say, "We need you to correct that" or "We need that information". It may take weeks or months for them to come back to us, but we face the criticism for it. I have no doubt that our councils have a similar experience. <BR /> <BR />I recently addressed the Royal Town Planning Institute (RTPI), and we had discussions. It has been said that planners are people. They are members of our community. They work and live in our communities and want the best for our communities.”
“The quality of those applications is not always what it should be. When people say, "We have to consult" or, "We had to go back on consultations", I find that, in discussions with some of my departmental colleagues, that means that my Department has gone back to the applicant to say, "This is not right. We need this information to move this project on", and then we are criticised for delays. We are trying to give the applicant an opportunity to present as full a case as possible to the planners so that they can make an informed decision. I have jokingly said to my planners that perhaps we should say, "That application is not correct. Take it back". My planning performance figures would go through the roof. I would be outperforming everyone. That is not — well, it might be the way to go.”
“When we talk about planning, it often can be a broad-brush statement. It is often seen that we are talking about planners. Yes, planners have a crucial role in the delivery of an effective planning system, but all the cogs of the wheel that make the job of the planner more effective and efficient also have to be oiled and turning. <BR /> <BR />As I said, I have already made bids to the transformation fund around the statutory consultees and will continue to do whatever I can to support them. Through the transformation fund, I am looking at the Planning Appeals Commission. <BR /> <BR />The other element is also the quality of the original planning application that crosses the desk or, more often now, is emailed to the planning system. That includes major green planning applications.”
“Councils, as individual, sovereign political authorities, have hugely important leadership roles in delivering the main operational aspects of the system, including taking decisions on 99% of all planning applications, producing local development plans fundamental to the reformed plan-led system and the effective enforcement of planning control. As I already said, the planning authorities also rely on the expertise of statutory consultees to ensure that important public interest issues, such as road safety and environmental impact, are properly taken into account in planning decisions. Many of my ministerial colleagues will therefore also be directly contributing to the effectiveness of the planning system. That is an important point.”
“<BR /> <BR />Members will recall that I addressed the Chamber on planning earlier this year, and I do not intend to rehearse the debate. However, I do think that, in the context of the current motion, it is important to remind Members of some key points. As I have said, under the review of public administration, the Executive and the Assembly agreed to transfer significant planning functions and decisions to local government. That allows local communities to hold their councils accountable for how they discharge their planning functions.”
“A successful bid would allow the Department to improve its consultee response times and to appoint independent persons to deal with major hearings and report work that is currently passed to the Planning Appeals Commission. In short, I made a bid for independent examiners, and it is progressing to the next stage. It would also allow us to progress proposals for the four wind farm applications currently in the system and sitting with the commission for one or two years. There is a significant delay at the Planning Appeals Commission, and I am trying to step around that to ensure that those important planning applications that are being delayed are dealt with. I also understand that the Audit Office is undertaking a strategic review of the Planning Appeals Commission.”
“Integral to improving the planning system is the role of statutory consultees, a subject touched on today, and the ongoing work that my Department has been conducting with them and local government through the planning statutory consultee forum. Significant progress has been achieved through the forum, including the development of quarterly and annual reports on statutory consultation performance; a review of statutory consultee advice and published guidance; and the production of a protocol for statutory consultees that sets out what involvement and support is required for them to support an effective and efficient planning system. <BR /> <BR />I am also delighted that my Department's bid for the transformation board funding for planning has progressed to the next stage.”
“There is also the development of new and amended legislation to streamline and ensure that key aspects of the planning process are up to date and fit for purpose, including bringing forward legislation to enable local planning authorities to produce statutory validation checklists. That piece of legislation is, quite rightly, being scrutinised by the Infrastructure Committee. <BR /> <BR />The delivery of a comprehensive capacity-building programme to planning offices and statutory consultees in the area of environmental impact assessments and working closely with local government to find efficiencies and improvements to the local development process will all continue to improve the overall efficiency and effectiveness of our planning system.”
“<BR /> <BR />Since taking up my role as Infrastructure Minister, I have been engaging with a wide range of key stakeholders, each with their own perspectives on our planning system. I am also continuing to take forward a wide-ranging planning improvement programme, which has already achieved important progress, including planning application fee uplifts and consultations on and reviews of planning policy and procedures. The review of regional strategic policy on renewable and low-carbon energy is well advanced, and a call for evidence on the potential review of regional strategic policy in relation to climate change has issued.”
“The question is this: who makes that decision? Do I impose my will on councils and local communities? Does the Environment Minister impose his will on councils and local communities? Or, is that best placed with councils through their local development plans? Currently, the legislation and the will of the Assembly and the Executive reflect that that decision is best placed through local development plans. <BR /> <BR />A report published by NISRA as recently as 5 September 2024 shows that just under 46% of all our electricity consumption between July 2023 and 2024 was generated from renewable sources. Members will not be surprised to learn that the vast majority of that energy generation has been made possible because of permission granted by the planning system. Notwithstanding those figures, I acknowledge that much remains to be done.”
“I will come on to timing later. The Member is absolutely right: planning matters should be settled in a timely manner. As I work my way through my speech, I will examine where the delays come from and, more importantly, how we can resolve them.”
“I will shortly, after I make this point. <BR /> <BR />When it goes wrong with some major infrastructural projects, it goes terribly wrong. I think of an event in Galway a number of years ago, although I accept that the development of wind farms was in the early stages. The impact was catastrophic when that went wrong, so it is important that we get it right.”
“The role of the planning system, be it in my Department or a council, is to decide, based on its policies, on the points of view that are at the table.”
“It is important to recognise the fact that planning is literally a contested space at times. That said, many planning applications go through with no objections whatsoever. Where you may have a fundamental change in the character of your community, neighbourhood or environment and given the fact that many green energy projects are on a significant scale, it is understandable that concerns will be raised, be they by residents, environmentalists or others. It is only right and proper that each argument is tested fully before the decision is made. Arguments that are based on the rights of the developer, be they large, small or medium, and the rights of the resident, the environmental group or the objector, for want of a better term, are all valid and have to be brought to the table.”
“In fact, sustainability principles are at the heart of our planning system. The planning system has the protection of the environment, the well-being of people and society and balanced economic growth at its core. It supports a fair and just system. Much of the commentary in the debate thus far has been on the need for developers to bring forward green energy proposals, and quite rightly so. In this instance, most developers will be small to medium-sized enterprises, large corporations or maybe multinational corporations, but we also deal in the planning system with individuals. <BR /> <BR />However, on the other side of the equation are the persons or communities that may have strong feelings about or objections to a planning application. Their views have not been reflected in the debate.”
“For my part, I am committed to building on the good progress that has already been made in my Department, whether through promoting active and sustainable travel; the roll-out of lower-emission buses, as Mr Middleton mentioned; enhancing our public transport services; or ensuring more generally that our existing and proposed infrastructure addresses the many challenges that we face because of climate change. <BR /> <BR />While I accept that the planning system has a role to play, I do not agree that it is one of the greatest barriers to green growth. No empirical evidence was given during the debate that pointed to that statement being factual. I do not accept that it is the greatest barrier to green growth, inward investment or the delivery of renewable energy infrastructure.”
“I also support a fair and just planning system, and I will return to that point later. <BR /> <BR />I acknowledge the work that my Executive colleague Minister Muir and his officials have undertaken to date to bring forward the green growth strategy. I look forward to continuing to work collaboratively on a cross-Executive basis in order to ensure the appropriate progression of strategy, policy and legislation not only to assist in decarbonising our economy and creating jobs but to support the achievement of our wider climate change commitments.”
“I start by thanking the motion's sponsors for tabling the motion on the important topic on green growth and for highlighting that we, as an Assembly, need to continue to work together to facilitate and enable green growth for the benefit of all our people. I agree with the assertion set out by the motion:”
“As Mr Allen suggested, that question would be best answered in writing by the Minister.”
“The Member will understand that details about buyers and the number of buyers are commercially sensitive. Media reports reflect significant interest in the purchase of the Harland and Wolff Belfast operation, which is a good thing. As I said, Minister Murphy is in the US, promoting the benefits of our local economy and our excellent workforce and the potential for investment and for companies here to do business in the US. The focus is on that matter. All key stakeholders are involved. They have been briefed and are engaging with each other around it. It has to go through a commercial process and to complete that. The quicker that is completed, the better for all, particularly the workers.”
“The Member will understand that I am unable to reflect conversations that I was not directly involved in. I will ensure that his comments and questions are passed on to Minister Murphy. He may be able to respond to the Member in more detail. <BR /> <BR />The potential for the diversion of workstreams at the site is immense. As I mentioned to one Member, Minister Murphy and I have already had discussions with the representatives from Belfast harbour around that issue. I have no doubt that Harland and Wolff will play a key role in that.”
“As I said, Minister Murphy has engaged with all the key stakeholders, particularly the unions, about moving forward. The yard is going through a sales process. The quicker that that is resolved, the better for all, particularly the workers; it will ensure that they know about their futures. That is key to all of it. I think that the Member will agree that all the flux that has happened over recent times is not the fault of the workers. The workers have shown true dedication and skills. The Member is nodding her head in agreement, as I thought that she would. The workers have shown great dedication and skills to Harland and Wolff; a skilled workforce has developed. I assure you that my thoughts and, no doubt, Minister Murphy's thoughts are, first and foremost, with the workers and about securing their futures.”
“Minister Murphy and I recently engaged with Belfast harbour about green growth and its plans, working in conjunction with Cork around those matters. We also recently met the Transport Minister in the South, Minister Ryan, to discuss those very issues. I assure you from personal experience that Minister Murphy is acutely aware of that and that we have done some work in that regard. I am sure that your comments will be passed on to him.”
“We should not be as definitive as the Member has been about the finishing of shipbuilding in Belfast as a result of a, b or c, but I will certainly make sure that his comments and call are passed on to Minister Murphy for him to engage as he feels fit with the First Minister and deputy First Minister.”
“There have been conversations. I think that Minister Murphy is in a better position to outline their detail, but I am aware from engagement with Minister Murphy's officials today that they have been actively engaged in discussions over the past period, because, although news has come that Harland and Wolff has gone into administration, it has been well publicised that there have been issues with the parent company. There are ongoing discussions between the Department for the Economy here and other key stakeholders, including the British Government.”
“Certainly, in the modern era, the success and continued existence of Harland and Wolff are down to the dedication of those in its workforce. As I mentioned to the previous Member to speak, a number of years ago, we witnessed their successful campaign to keep the yard open and secure their jobs. Indeed, since then, there has been a significant increase in employment at the yard. I have no doubt that Minister Murphy will be keen to ensure that there is continued engagement with the unions. Hopefully, a new buyer will come forward as soon as possible and there will be a continued working relationship with the unions.”
“I confirm that Minister Murphy has had engagement with the unions on the matter. It is, quite clearly, concerning to the workforce at the yard, who have been dutiful and loyal to the company over many years. As the Member will know acutely, there was a well-known campaign to save it a number of years ago. Our first thoughts are with the workers and their families. I assure the Member that Minister Murphy and his Department are focused on doing everything that they can to secure the future of the yard.”
“Minister Murphy has written to the British Secretary of State, Hilary Benn MP, and spoken to a number of UK Ministers and senior officials to highlight the importance of Harland and Wolff to the region and the importance of the British Government's continued support. Departmental officials and Invest NI continue to engage with the company and the British Government to keep abreast of the situation, and they are committed to maximising the benefits, where possible, of our local economy.”
“Minister Murphy sends his apologies. He is in North America promoting the benefits of the local economy. He has provided me with the following information. <BR /> <BR />The financial challenges facing Harland and Wolff have been well publicised in recent weeks. It is disappointing news that the company has now been placed into administration. Minister Murphy is aware of the news reports that a number of parties have expressed an interest in the company, with the submission of first bids to close this week. The company has stated that the administration process will not have any immediate impacts on the Belfast yard and that it will continue to operate as normal.”
“It is not about me poking developers in the eye, by the way. It is about me bringing forward proposals in the recognition of the stringent financial circumstances that the Executive are under. <BR /> <BR />When I look at Labour's plans for cutting further billions from public spending, I can sit back and moan about that — I am very good at moaning — but I can also look at solutions, and this is part of my proposals around those solutions. It will hopefully allow houses, factories and schools to be built. At the end of the day, a developer will have to make a decision as to whether it is commercially viable for them to do so, as each one will have a separate cost to it, but the Assembly will have the final say on it.”
“I see this as a solution, and it is the job of a Minister to bring forward solutions. Any legislation that I introduce will have to go through, first, the Executive and secondly, the rigours of the Assembly. One of those rigours will be the Committee. The Member is absolutely right that developers can make contributions, but those contributions are for separating foul water from storm water. In many of our areas, we have an antiquated system whereby we bring storm water and foul water through the same pipes, and that leads to the overrun that is in many of our waste water treatment works. Developers now can pay for the separation of those waters where it suits the solution in that area. I am talking about broadening that and allowing developers to do it. You can put whatever terminology on it that you like.”
“I also note and welcome the work of organisations such as the Lough Neagh Partnership, which works with farmers along the lough shore and has been carrying out great work for many years there by fencing off areas, keeping cattle away and planting trees. You talked about planting bushes and shrubbery. As I said, there will have to be hard engineering solutions in and around the lough and elsewhere, it has to be said, but there are also solutions in nature that we need to explore.”
“On the point about water testing, I suggest that it is probably best if customers allow NI Water to take the water directly from the tap. If you put it into a container, the container may already be contaminated with another substance. The longer that it sits, the higher the chance that it may upset the testing. So, if a customer has concerns, it is probably best if they contact NI Water directly and samples are taken at source. <BR /> <BR />You are spot on about planting trees and working with the network of streams and rivers and about the run-off that comes into Lough Neagh from a very wide geographical area. That goes back to my point about working with nature rather than against it. I note that the action plan includes proposals on that.”
“You can mutualise, which would lead to domestic water bills, and, as far as I am aware, most of the parties in the Assembly, if not all of them, are opposed to that. You can fund NI Water through direct taxation, which we do with the funds that are available to the Executive. You can look at developer contributions and at working with nature. As I said, I have a three-pronged approach to the matter. We are not sitting back hoping or crossing our fingers. My Executive colleagues are on board, the legislation is being looked at and the Executive have passed a policy paper allowing me to draft legislation on working with nature and correcting those misconnections that are also causing so much damage to the system.”
“On the first point, under the current legislation, developers cannot make significant contributions to waste water treatment works etc. I am looking at the legislation to see whether we need to amend it through primary legislation. I do not have a definitive policy position or legislative outline at the moment. If we go down that route, it will have to go through the Committee and the Assembly. <BR /> <BR />We can set up an independent review of the funding for NI Water, but it will not solve the problem within the time frame that we need to solve it. The equation is quite simple. NI Water needs more money, so you can go down a number of routes to get it. You can privatise, which the Executive and the Assembly are opposed to.”
“As I said, it might be a timely reminder to us all that we cannot take Lough Neagh for granted.”
“I suspect that it will depend on the weather. I understand that we are in for a number of mild days. Mild weather encourages algae blooms in the lough, which last for a period of time. That means that we have to deal with that when we take water out of the lough through our water treatment works. I cannot give you a timescale. A reduction in temperature and, unfortunately, some rain and wind are required to break up the algae blooms. That will allow us to move ahead and take water out of the lough without such an input of algae blooms. We will, however, come back to this next year and in the years after that. Even fully committing, as I do, to the action plan published by the Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs Minister, we are involved in a long-term challenge here. We all have to recognise that.”