John O'Dowd
Upper Bann · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“As I set out in response to the previous question, we have in place the vacant property rate relief scheme and the small business rate relief scheme, which are very successful. I set aside £10 million in the draft Budget for small business rate relief to be invested.”
“I am particularly keen to hear from those impacted by vacant commercial units and especially about how any phased increase can be implemented in a sustainable way that is fair, proportionate and sustainable within the tax system.”
“I outlined my intent to take that approach in my statement on 18 November, alongside the fact that reform of rating policy should support growth, make better use of property and ensure that the system is fair, proportionate and aligned with wider economic objectives.”
“The accelerator will operate alongside our highly successful Back in Business scheme, which has helped to bring over 100 vacant high street properties back into use since May 2024. Those issues have been the subject of considerable interest and comment in the Assembly, and it is right that we grasp the nettle now.”
“There are no circumstances in which a hard border would be good for the people of Ireland; it would not be good for anyone. Those who suggest that are being naive at best and dangerous at worst, in the sense of not understanding this society. <BR /> <BR />Rural communities along the border are one and the same.”
“This announcement represents the next step in that. That said, I also put on record my intention to strengthen support for small businesses. In that vein, £10 million has been set aside in the draft Budget to broaden the impact of the small business rate relief scheme in order to increase the number of businesses that can benefit from it.…”
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“I am just trying to be honest with you today.”
“On the subject of tourism just down the road, the Minister will be aware that there has been a significant increase in the number of tourists visiting from the South — the Twenty-six Counties — with an estimated increase of 55% staying overnight, including in Mrs Erskine's constituency, I am sure, and in everyone else's constituency. Therefore, Minister, why do you underfund Tourism Ireland? Under the agreement that is in place, your Department should be providing one third of its funding, but you provide only 15%. You are undercutting local businesses by doing that. Will you commit to supporting Tourism Ireland fully?”
“You have been one of the steady voices in the Chamber to call for and ensure that the Good Friday Agreement and its institutions were delivered. As Speaker, you ensured, despite the best efforts of some, including me at times, that the Chamber was respectful, that we had courteous debate and that we delivered the change that was possible. <BR /> <BR />I want to end by thanking the officers and staff of the Assembly for their work over the last couple of years. The work that they have done to ensure that this institution delivered has been remarkable and is a credit to them. So, go raibh míle maith agaibh.”
“2) Bill, the Organ and Tissue Donation (Deemed Consent) Bill, the Integrated Education Bill and the scrapping of the cruel, Tory bedroom tax, to name but a few. That demonstrates that real change is possible. <BR /> <BR />In three weeks' time, we will mark the 24th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement. Sinn Féin will be defending that agreement, not renegotiating it now or in the time ahead. To those who hanker for the past, hell-bent on disrupting the present and threatening our future, you need to realise that there is no going back, there is only going forward. <BR /> <BR />Ceann Comhairle, I wish to thank you for your leadership and civility in the Chamber, not only over the last couple of years but in your presence in the Chamber since 1998.”
“They stood strong and delivered a service to the entire community, and that is to their huge credit. <BR /> <BR />On the politicians' role in that, the public expect us to work together. They expect cooperation and delivery. At odds with that have been the belligerent and short-sighted actions of the DUP to walk out of government, leaving Ministers powerless to set a Budget or spend the £300 million that families so desperately need at this time. <BR /> <BR />Against the political lows, however, there have been political highs, when MLAs came together regardless, on a cross-party basis, to introduce scores of laws that will make a real difference to people's lives: the Autism (Amendment) Bill, the Climate Change (No.”
“Over £2·8 billion was delivered to support the health service, businesses, workers, families and vulnerable people, but no money could have paid for the contribution of our health workers and other essential workers during that period.”
“A Cheann Comhairle, as you said, back in January 2020, the political institutions were restored on the basis of the New Decade, New Approach (NDNA) agreement. It was ambitious to form a five-party coalition Executive, but it was achieved and got us back to genuine, inclusive power-sharing — and thankfully so, because while everyone knew that there would be challenges ahead, no one could have predicted that, in only a matter of weeks, we would be dealing with a global pandemic that would have such a devastating impact on every part of society, community and people's lives and livelihoods. <BR /> <BR />It is to the credit of all Ministers from across the five parties that they responded and have worked with a unity of purpose and leadership for the past two years, and I thank them all.”
“Minister, I am pleasantly surprised by the strength of your statement. It is as strong a statement as I have heard from someone in your position and from your party on employment law. "Well done" on the statement, but what we need now is strong action as well as strong words. <BR /> <BR />Will the Minister take action with regard to the public funds that P&O has received? I have no doubt that that company, despite making £1·3 billion of profit last year, will have its hand out again for more public money. Will the Minister ensure that it does not receive public money until the practices that it has been involved in are dealt with and it has been punished for what it has done to those workers?”
“I have no doubt, however, that they will act in bad faith because, no matter which side you represent in the House, we all acknowledge that honouring agreements is not their forte.”
“The British Government have failed completely to acknowledge the fact that there are many, many people in this part of the island who identify as Irish and who expect their cultural identity, allegiances and culture to be not only identifiable but protected and on display. <BR /> <BR />It is also worth noting that the British Government continue to fail to bring forward Acht na Gaeilge, despite their agreement that they would do so last year. That is another act of bad faith by the British Government, given their responsibilities under the Good Friday Agreement to have parity of esteem for all traditions on this island. <BR /> <BR />Our position on the flying of the Union flag is clear. We want to see parity of esteem for all identities on this island, and we expect this British Government to act.”
“I suspect that, as we debate this topic this afternoon, many families and workers around the North will have more important things on their mind than flags, such as how to heat, eat and keep a roof over their family's heads. I suspect that this will not be at the top of their list of priorities. <BR /> <BR />The debate is brought to us courtesy of Brandon Lewis, the Secretary of State, who, in his presentation of the motion, again completely fails to recognise the need for parity of esteem, as set out in the Good Friday Agreement.”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am raising this point of order as an individual and not as a member of the Assembly Commission. I ask that the Speaker's Office takes a look at Mr Allister's comments during that session. I have no doubt in my mind that Mr Allister is an expert on the subject of bigotry and how to administer it. I ask that his comments during Question Time are examined.”
“For the sake of openness and transparency, I will declare an interest. I was a trustee in the last mandate, but I have not been a trustee in this mandate. <BR /> <BR />While the Assembly Commission makes pension contributions, the pension scheme is administered by the trustees and not by the Assembly Commission. Therefore, where the money is invested does not fall to the Assembly Commission.”
“The trustees have appointed an investment manager to invest the pension fund on a day-to-day basis. That appointment and the direction of the investment manager is a matter for the pension trustees. While the matter is for the pension trustees and not the Assembly Commission, I am advised that the trustees have recently appointed a new investment manager. In doing so, they ensured that the need to be able to undertake socially responsible investments was included in the specification for the new investment manager. The Member may wish to contact the trustees to discuss the matter further.”
“I thank the Member for her question. The Assembly Members' pension scheme is a trust-based occupational pension scheme. Up to five Members are appointed by resolution of the Assembly to act as trustees. The trustees are responsible for administering the pension fund in accordance with the scheme rules, the law as it relates to pensions and pensions regulatory guidance.”
“I am sure that an analysis of the outworkings of the Assembly is possible. A lot of that work depends on the people in this room and how productive we are rather than how productive Assembly Commission staff are, in fairness to them, but it is something that, I am sure, officials will take note of. Moving forward, the Assembly Commission has given staff a commitment to develop a homeworking policy, and that process is well advanced. A draft policy has been consulted on with all staff and trade union side. On foot of the consultation responses, a revised policy is being developed.”
“<BR /> <BR />Members will recognise that, throughout the pandemic, a significant number of staff have been working in the Building on different days, particularly to ensure that the Assembly and its Committees continued to do business. It was incredibly important that the Assembly remained able to make decisions and pass legislation during that period. Members will be aware that officials have undertaken a lot of work to adapt how the Assembly works to deal with the constraints that were created by the pandemic. I therefore take this opportunity to record the Assembly Commission's thanks to our staff for the continued support that they have given to us throughout this challenging time.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The Assembly Commission has, at all times, sought to apply in a pragmatic and practical manner the regulations, when they were in place, and the guidance issued by the Executive. That has included the guidance that staff should work from home where possible. That guidance is still in place, so the Assembly Commission has sought to facilitate working from home where it is possible. <BR /> <BR />The Commission does not record the average number of staff who are working in person in Parliament Buildings each day. The number or proportion of Commission staff who are working in person in Parliament Buildings to support the work of the Assembly is dependent on business need and will fluctuate from day to day.”
“What does it take to ensure that the £300 million that is available to men, women and children who are cold and hungry is distributed? What does it take for the DUP Members to do their work, go back to the Executive and look after people? I note that the latest recruit to the DUP Benches, Mr Rankin, thinks that he is Clint Eastwood. I saw that on his Twitter account this morning. In my opinion, there are enough cowboys in the DUP without adding another. What we need is a First Minister working along with a deputy First Minister, delivering for the needs of people, and that is what has to happen today. There must be no more hiding, no more antics. Go back to the Executive and look after the people you are here to serve.”
“Students study in cold flats and houses because they cannot afford to turn on the heating. Families that can afford to turn on the gas spend £40 a week to do that for three hours a day. All this goes on while the Executive, if functioning, could immediately issue £300 million into the public's hands, pockets and wallets. Instead, we have Jeffrey's world, where opposition to the protocol is more important than the needs of men, women and children. In Jeffrey's world, you listen more to the Loyalist Communities Council than to the pleas of citizens who are cold in their homes and cannot afford to eat. In that world, where the brigadiers' bellies and oil tanks are full, people grow cold. <BR /> <BR />What does it take for the DUP to wise up?”
“I wish the Speaker and the Minister well. I know that a number of other Members are unwell too. <BR /> <BR />It is no exaggeration to say that there are children who went to school this morning who will have felt heat for the first time since Friday. That is not because they have bad or uncaring parents but because their parents simply cannot afford to heat their home and feed their children. That is the situation that we are in in 2022. Working parents and parents who are, for whatever reason, on benefits are making decisions daily, if not hourly, about how to keep their family warm and fed. <BR /> <BR />Pensioners spend all day in bed to keep warm.”
“Without delaying the completion of the Bill, the Department, in its deliberations, has to look at how it will support victims of domestic abuse in industrial tribunals in order to ensure that their rights are protected. There is a challenge there for the Department and for the industrial tribunals going forward. We may want to look at the issue again at Further Consideration Stage, but, certainly, in the next mandate, the Committee that monitors the Department's implementation of the legislation will want to take a look at it. <BR /> <BR />I fully support all the amendments before the House and welcome the fact that the Bill is making progress through the Assembly.”
“Taking a case to an industrial tribunal can be an expensive course of action, and it is a daunting one. However, I accept that good legislation should have an enforcement element to it. There is no point in having legislation unless it can be enforced, and, on industrial matters, an industrial tribunal would be the natural route to take.”
“I do not intend to speak for too long. I just want to reflect on amendment No 18, which ensures that there is recourse through an industrial tribunal. In what, I would hope, would be the rare case of that having to happen, we have to think about the difficulties that it may present to a victim of domestic violence, somebody who has suffered abuse and violence today, having to enter the legal arena of an industrial tribunal.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I would argue that what I said during the first debate was listened to and that the Bill has been dramatically restructured since I made comments at Second Stage. I would not and could not have supported the Bill as originally drafted. It has changed dramatically. It is now a Bill that I can support. <BR /> <BR />During the Second Stage debate, I made comments about GAA sports and the Irish language that were unfair to the integrated sector. I put on record my apologies for those comments. In the heat of debate, I went too far, but I can now support the Bill at Final Stage.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I wonder whether those colleagues who are opposing the clauses and amendments would be interested in registering their opposition rather than going through the Lobbies.”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I was absent from the Chamber yesterday for topical question 6 to the Minister of Justice. I was on Assembly business in England. I offer my apologies to the House for that.”
“That was not so much a ministerial statement as a party political broadcast. On the subject of party political broadcasts, since the previous time that I questioned your Department on the subject, you have spent a considerable amount of time misrepresenting my position. In fact, I even featured on a DUP social media channel. <BR /> <BR />When I see the words "DUP" and "subsidy" in a statement, I instinctively have to ask questions, and that is what I will continue to do. Minister, in your statement, you said that broadband is a utility, so why are you standing over a situation in which rural dwellers are paying twice as much for that publicly subsidised utility as those in urban settings?”
“The Assembly Commission therefore seeks the Assembly's agreement to the budget amounts for resource and capital DEL set out in the motion. I commend those amounts to the House.”
“I will end my remarks by saying that the Commission has considered its requirements for the three years from 2022-23 to 2024-25 in recognition of the fact that a significant element of the budget is non-discretionary as it relates to payments to Members set by the independent financial review panel or through determinations published by the Assembly Commission. The Commission is very grateful to the Audit Committee for its work in scrutinising the budget totals for the next three years.”
“I know that, since the return of the Assembly, many Members have either donated their increase to charity or returned it to the block grant. If the Member feels that strongly about it, he could take either of those actions. He is perfectly entitled to vote against the proposal before us, but we have no say in setting our wages, and rightly so.”
“The Committee raised objections to the translation service, but, as I said to Joanne, we are carrying out the mandate of the Assembly and are doing so in a prudent manner. The cost will be reviewed after six months. <BR /> <BR />Mr Carroll said that he will vote against the motion because of the £500 increase in Assembly Members' wages. The Assembly Commission and, indeed, the Assembly have no say in that matter. Assembly Members' wages are set by an independent panel and rise with the cost of inflation, so, at a set period of inflation at point a, our salary rises by 1%. The Member can certainly vote against the motion, but the £500 increase will go ahead because the Assembly cannot interfere in Assembly Members' wages in any way. It cannot increase them, and it cannot reduce them.”
“That is an ongoing issue and is discussed at every Commission meeting, but there are now legal matters at play there that we cannot go into any further. I understand that a barrister sits on the Audit Committee. I thought that he might have understood that, but perhaps he was playing politics; I could not possibly comment. Not you, Mr Irwin — the barrister.”
“The Commission members have been vocal about that. <BR /> <BR />Funding for the opposition is an NDNA commitment. An Assembly and Executive Review Committee report has been discussed by the Assembly. Again, the Assembly Commission has been mandated to carry out that work and is doing so. <BR /> <BR />There was talk about investment in the Bill Office. Quite a significant number of private Member's Bills have gone through this year. I cannot answer on whether there will be further investment in the Bill Office. I ask for that to be brought to officials from the Commission, but we all appreciate and support the work that is done by that office. <BR /> <BR />William Irwin, speaking on behalf of the Audit Committee, raised the issue of the Parliament Buildings roof.”
“The principle of simultaneous interpretation is not open to review, but the number of interpreters needed and the investment required are. <BR /> <BR />A number of Members thanked the secretariat staff for their good work over the past year during very difficult times, and I add my voice to that. The investment being made in bringing Members and their staff up to proper working conditions, particularly when someone is off on maternity or paternity leave, has been noted. Those are modern rights that all workers should have. <BR /> <BR />Kellie thanked the staff and the secretariat. There is the issue of the papers and ensuring that, in future, Members have access to the necessary papers. The investment in the new broadcasting — the Wi-Fi, the screens, etc — will include simultaneous interpretation and sign language.”
“Joanne and her party colleagues will be aware that the Commission is carrying out the mandate that was given to it by the Assembly in its vote last year. The Commission cannot override the decisions of the Assembly on those matters, and it is fulfilling that mandate. <BR /> <BR />The Commission carried out a survey of Members, though I note that the Audit Committee objected to that. How would we otherwise assess the level of need in any given term? It is a good estimate that, in this mandate, there are a number of Irish speakers. There is no indication yet that anyone will speak in Ulster Scots, but provision will be made for that. It is also worth remembering that there will be a review after six months, including of the costs and the number of interpreters needed.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Commission considers that the budgets for the next three years are reasonable estimates of the financial requirements for those three years in order to deliver the required services to Members. The budgets should enable the Commission to meet the necessary costs that arise each year for staff costs, the Building's running costs, the costs of delivering effective constituency services to our community and the ongoing costs of investing in infrastructure in order to ensure that it continues to meet the Assembly's needs. The budgets also include the costs for the next year, which will arise due to the outcome of the Assembly election. <BR /> <BR />I will turn to some of the contributions from Members. Joanne reiterated her party's opposition to simultaneous translation.”
“I thank all the Members who contributed to the debate. As my colleague Robbie Butler noted in his introductory remarks, given recent political developments, it is crucial that the Assembly debates the Commission's budget in a plenary sitting. That is because the resources that are made available to the Commission will be used to provide services to the Assembly and its Members. The provision of all the services that are required to carry out the Assembly's legislative scrutiny and representative functions will remain the Commission's overarching objective as we approach the end of the current Assembly mandate and emerge from the other side of the next Assembly election.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is worth putting on record that several Members are at Committee meetings. I do not want the impression to be that Members are absent without leave.”
“Minister, I commend the work of Dr Purdy and his panel on the 'A Fair Start' report. You and he have managed to bring most if not all political parties together behind an education initiative, which is a huge achievement, so fair play to you. I know from experience how difficult that is. How will you measure the progress of the action plan, given that there has been some criticism recently from the Audit Office about how we measure such features, and how will it fit with the wider review of education?”
“Is it not better to be honest with the sector and with those families who are waiting on a childcare strategy and say that it is going nowhere? The DUP's decision to walk out of the joint First Ministers' office, the fact that there is no functioning Executive and your call that you will not go back into the Executive after the election means that things like this are going nowhere. Is it not better for you to stand at the dispatch box and tell the sector that?”
“Minister, I note from your statement that the British-Irish Council was established by the same Act under which the North/South Ministerial Council was established. I also note that you were accompanied by Deirdre Hargey, a Sinn Féin Minister who is honouring her ministerial code and her ministerial pledge, and that the SDLP, the Ulster Unionist Party and the Alliance Party are doing the same. When will you honour your ministerial pledge and oath and return to North/South Ministerial Council meetings so that we can have a full development of cross-border, cross-island energy strategies that will help people who are facing crippling energy costs at this time?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement, which will be welcomed by businesses across my constituency that believe that Invest NI is not designed to support small to medium-sized enterprises (SMEs). I hope that a change in that regard will be one of the outworkings of the review. <BR /> <BR />North/South trade has increased by 65% over the past year: £3.6 million a day in trade. That creates sustainable businesses, sustainable jobs and new jobs. Will the Minister ensure that Invest NI and his Department do not stand in the way of that trend because of his political opposition to the protocol?”
“He walked the difficult journey that many of us have had to walk of reaching out to others and engaging with people whom we would probably never have engaged with or even met if we were not in this institution. He played his part in that, and he certainly played his part in the history of the Building. <BR /> <BR />I extend my deepest sympathies to his wife, Laura, to his mother, to his children and to his colleagues in the DUP. He will be a huge loss to them. As I have said, he will be a huge loss to the entire institution. I will miss his wit, I will miss his debating skills and I will miss his wee stories at the Table.”
“You would meet him the next morning in the corridor, and it would be, "Hello, John. How are you this morning?", and you would start off on a bit of craic and stories with him. During the late night debates, when the votes were going on, he would call me to the Table and tell me the odd story. There were things about his grandmother, who was, clearly, a formidable woman and a socialist, which came to mind when William referred to him as "Tory Boy". I used to say to him, "How did your grandmother, a socialist, end up with a grandson like you?". He would give a wry smile and go on about his admiration for Margaret Thatcher or other people. <BR /> <BR />I will miss him. As has been said, this place will not be the same without him. We have lost someone who made a huge contribution to politics and to the peace process.”
“As has been said, Christopher Stalford was a formidable political opponent. He was an intellect, and he was articulate. He could get his point across in such a way that, when you were listening to him or being lambasted by him, you knew that he meant it. However, he meant it in a way that was an attempt to move the debate forward, to move things on or to get you to understand the impact that our actions or comments had on his community, the unionist community. <BR /> <BR />I see Mervyn sitting exactly where Christopher stood last Tuesday, as he gave us both barrels across the Chamber. There were times, when I had debated with Christopher, that I tried not to like him afterwards, but I could not do that. He was that sort of character, as has been said: such an affable individual.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I ask you to take a look at Mr Frew's comments during the questions on the statement. I believe that he accused Minister Hargey of acting in a sectarian fashion. I ask that your office looks at those comments.”
“Minister, I have been around this place for 20 years, and the Budget proposed by you, which included a 10% increase in health spending, was the biggest socio-economic investment in our society since the Good Friday Agreement. That is the scale of the change that your Budget could have made. <BR /> <BR />Does the Minister agree that it is not the EU or the protocol that is denying people access to medicines and operations or preventing the recruitment of more nurses and doctors but the DUP? The failure of the party opposite to allow you to pass the Budget will have huge consequences for every citizen in this part of the island.”
“If I am around to see that day, I assure you that I will support any minority seeking a bill of rights.”
“Those behind the slurs and the discrimination against Professor Harvey cannot wash their hands of that. <BR /> <BR />As my colleague Carál said, we will return to this. There will be a bill of rights. Some in the Chamber should remember this: today's majority can be tomorrow's minority. When you are in the minority, that is when you most seek protection under the law and in a rights-based society. When Mr Allister, Mr Frew or whoever it may be denies the need for a bill of rights, they should think of it in this way: in the not-too-distant future, the unionist community will be a minority, who will, quite rightly, seek protections under the law. What will be the title of the document under which they will seek protection? It will be a bill of rights.”