John O'Dowd
Upper Bann · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“As I set out in response to the previous question, we have in place the vacant property rate relief scheme and the small business rate relief scheme, which are very successful. I set aside £10 million in the draft Budget for small business rate relief to be invested.”
“I am particularly keen to hear from those impacted by vacant commercial units and especially about how any phased increase can be implemented in a sustainable way that is fair, proportionate and sustainable within the tax system.”
“I outlined my intent to take that approach in my statement on 18 November, alongside the fact that reform of rating policy should support growth, make better use of property and ensure that the system is fair, proportionate and aligned with wider economic objectives.”
“The accelerator will operate alongside our highly successful Back in Business scheme, which has helped to bring over 100 vacant high street properties back into use since May 2024. Those issues have been the subject of considerable interest and comment in the Assembly, and it is right that we grasp the nettle now.”
“There are no circumstances in which a hard border would be good for the people of Ireland; it would not be good for anyone. Those who suggest that are being naive at best and dangerous at worst, in the sense of not understanding this society. <BR /> <BR />Rural communities along the border are one and the same.”
“This announcement represents the next step in that. That said, I also put on record my intention to strengthen support for small businesses. In that vein, £10 million has been set aside in the draft Budget to broaden the impact of the small business rate relief scheme in order to increase the number of businesses that can benefit from it.…”
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“That matter has been raised at practically every meeting, if not every meeting, that I have ever had with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, and my officials raise it regularly with their counterparts in the Treasury. I know that it has been raised at the highest levels of government by the First Minister and deputy First Minister as well. Unfortunately, the British Government are not listening. They make decisions largely based on what needs are in the south of England and have little, if any, reflection on the needs of businesses here, which are operating in an all-island economy, seeing reductions in VAT for hospitality businesses just metres down the road from them and having to deal with the challenges that that brings.”
“However, if he is serious about all those projects that he has concerns about, he will present a united front to the Government and insist that this place is fairly funded, that taxpayers get a fair return on their taxes and that we are treated in an equitable, respectful manner in the same way that the Government are doing with other devolved institutions.”
“Austerity has been biting and consuming our public services for well over a decade. While other institutions are being funded above their level of need, the British Government have treated this place with utter contempt and disrespect. I have engaged with, and continue to engage with, the British Government about a proper funding package. I know that the Member is looking for a different angle to the story and is trying to get his name in the media. He is trying to do all those sorts of things.”
“Our public services have been in various states of crisis for well over a decade. Have you not noticed?”
“I engaged with my Executive colleagues, and it was quite clear that none of my Executive colleagues could deliver the front-line public services with the quantum of funding that we had. I then moved to further engagement with the British Government, and we have had intensive discussions that now need to come to an end with an offer being made. <BR /> <BR />As I said in answer to the first question today, I am looking at all potential outcomes that could happen in the next four to six weeks. I have informed my Executive colleagues about those matters, and we will continue to plan for different scenarios. However, plan A, plan B, plan C, plan D and plan E — where do you want to go to? — are to ensure that the British Government provide a fair return for taxpayers here from the Treasury because we are currently not getting that.”
“I welcome the fact that the Member has confirmed that he has not published anything. It is now on the public record that the leader of the Opposition has not published an alternative Budget or any documents to create the momentum behind the changes that are required for our public services moving forward. It is on the record that the Opposition have no alternative Budget. <BR /> <BR />I published a draft Budget for a number of reasons. The most important reason was that we needed to move the process on from political engagement behind closed doors, which has its place and is useful, but I published a draft Budget to allow the public — the people out there — to have their say in a consultation and to put figures and facts on paper for analysis.”
“I have set aside £135 million in my draft Budget because transformation is having a significant impact on the delivery of public services. It has also allowed our civil servants and others to come together to think about transformation in a meaningful way and look at the outputs. One of the challenges of austerity has been the day-to-day struggle to do what we can do, whereas transformation has given some space for lateral thinking to bring ideas forward and implement them. The monetary value is important, but the opportunity to change mindsets and ways of thinking is also invaluable.”
“It has enabled more people to get the treatment that they need quickly and reduced the pressure on hospitals.”
“It is clear to me that the transformation fund is having a positive impact on the delivery of public services here. In March 2025, I announced the first tranche of projects that will be supported under the fund. While it is relatively early days in the implementation of the projects, they are already starting to have an impact. For example, in the health service, the provision of transformation funding has enabled more than 350,000 additional consultations to be delivered to patients in multidisciplinary teams in GP practices.”
“As I said, I will come to the Chamber next week to make further announcements. The matter will go out to consultation, and I intend to put energy behind it. I want to see it happen. I believe that it is a meaningful policy change that would create real change in our towns and villages. It is up to others how they react to it.”
“I have a number of rate relief policies currently with the Executive, and I would like to see decisions made on those. There are other areas that I would be prepared to look at, but we need to see movement on the policies that we have already reviewed and an indication from others that they are willing to create the change necessary to stimulate activity in various areas of our economy and to raise the necessary revenue.”
“I want to see it having the impact of reducing the prevalence of vacant units in our high streets, villages and town centres. It is a way of motivating investment. If fully implemented, it is estimated that the changes would have the potential to unlock a further £20 million of revenue to fund central and local government spending. That is a significant amount of funding to release. <BR /> <BR />The objective of the policy is to see vacant buildings brought back into use. That is a priority on its own, and raising further revenue is also a priority. Significant change to our public services can be generated through an additional £20 million of revenue.”
“The consultation proposes a change that is intended to encourage occupation, reduce long-term vacancy, bring the policy closer to arrangements in other jurisdictions and raise additional revenue.”
“I have already said in the Chamber and at the Finance Committee that I want to increase the level of liability for non-domestic vacant rating. It is my firm view that we need to challenge the blight of vacant properties in our villages, towns and city centres. My officials are providing me with advice in relation to that, and I plan to launch a 12-week consultation next week on the matter. Stakeholders will be invited to give their views on a phased increase to the current 50% rate, rising to 75% and then to 100%. The current 50% rate is lower than in other jurisdictions and is seen as weakening the incentive to bring vacant properties back into use.”
“I agree with the sentiment of the Member's question and her point about encouraging more young people into our Civil Service for all the reasons that she outlined. The student placement programme that we run is one of the most successful in the Civil Service. When I go into a room full of young students who are coming into the Civil Service for a year, I can feel the energy and the enthusiasm that they bring. The reports back from the various Departments and branches that they go into reflect that energy and enthusiasm for the service. <BR /> <BR />We are constantly reviewing how we recruit and retain our staff, how we promote the opportunities to underrepresented groups in our Civil Service and how we ensure that they are aware of and can access our applications in a fair and equitable way, and I will continue to do that.”
“They told me about their experiences over recent times, their concerns, their fears, their aspirations and their hopes. Line managers have been asked to check in with affected staff and to signpost them to resources to help and support them, including ongoing peer support through the Civil Service race and ethnicity network. We are therefore reaching out and supporting our ethnic minority workforce as best we can. I asked to be kept in contact with the ethnic minority champions and have offered whatever assistance and support we can provide going forward. Everyone should be sending a very clear message that our ethnic minority communities here are welcome and valued and that they give this place value.”
“First, I put on record my condemnation of the recent racist rioting, disorder and attacks in our communities. I send my solidarity to our ethnic minority workforce, be they in the Civil Service or any other sector, public or private. They make a massive contribution to this society and create real and positive change. Many of our public services would simply fail without them. When racist thugs are burning nurses, doctors, civil servants and others out of their homes, they are not only creating terror and fear among those people but damaging their own communities. I doubt that they give a jot about any of that, however. <BR /> <BR />On our diverse workforce, I met the ethnic minority champions this morning. I had a very good conversation with them.”
“That is supported by visible senior leadership across the Civil Service through the diversity champions networks and the four thematic diversity leads, covering gender, race and ethnicity, LGBTQ+ and disability. Seven staff networks provide peer support, advocacy and a collective voice for employees. Progress is strengthened through external benchmarking and recognised through accreditation, including the silver diversity mark, the Onus platinum accreditation and the disability positive accreditation.”
“The Civil Service is committed to being an inclusive employer and providing a positive, supportive and diverse workplace that reflects the society that we serve. As one of the largest employers here, with over 24,000 staff, and as a public service provider, it is important that the Civil Service recognise and respect the diversity of people's identities, experiences and backgrounds. Having diversity and inclusion at the heart of everything that we do will help us attract and retain the best, most diverse talent, create diversity of thought to support better policymaking and deliver better services to the people here. <BR /> <BR />Supporting diversity and inclusion is a strategic priority in the people strategy 2025-2030.”
“<BR /> <BR />As for not fulfilling the Budget, in my response to question 1, I clearly set out what the strategy is and how we are moving forward with it. I therefore have nothing further to add.”
“I do not necessarily agree with a number of the Member's points. As I have said, agency working suits some staff. That has to be acknowledged, and we have to keep that option open if we are to continue to react to increases in work programmes in certain areas. Over half our agency staff are recruited through the Department for Work and Pensions' contract with the Department for Communities. Agency working is set out in the DWP contract. It is not costing the Executive or public services here any money. It is being paid for directly from Whitehall. It is therefore not a cost to the Executive. Those staff are delivering important Civil Service duties and enhancing the lives of the people whom they serve.”
“It should be acknowledged that, as I said, agency workers make an important contribution as valued members of the teams within which they work.”
“There is an ongoing programme of work across the Civil Service to move, as I said, to having a sustainable workforce that minimises the use of agency staff. It is about ensuring that we fill posts and have fewer agency workers, although there will always be a market for such workers. For a variety of reasons, it suits some staff to work through the agency process, so it is an option for the Civil Service. It is an option also in filling short-term contracts or where there is a significant increase in work in the short term. <BR /> <BR />I want to see permanent recruitment being progressed at pace. As a number of campaigns conclude and staff take up post, agency usage should continue to reduce. That reflects a clear commitment to building a sustainable permanent workforce.”
“However, as I said in my original answer, we are looking at a variety of ways of ensuring that we have a sustainable workforce in which the rights and entitlements of the workforce are protected and that it increasingly draws in more of those who wish to move away from agency work, enabling them to do so.”
“Less than half is a significant number in this case. That is an agency contract with DFC. It is set out in the DWP contract, as I understand it, it meets the needs of DWP and, in some instances, it meets the needs of staff, although I accept that that is not always the case. I want us to move to having a more sustainable workforce. <BR /> <BR />On the question of guaranteeing current agency staff full-time employment, my understanding is that all posts must be applied for and filled on merit and that agency staff cannot be automatically transferred to permanent roles; that is not possible under current employment law and other laws.”
“As the Member said, a significant proportion of the increase in agency staff is a direct result of the Department for Work and Pensions contract with the Department for Communities.”
“A substantial proportion of the roles support the Department for Work and Pensions contract. Over 45% of all agency workers — approximately 2,426 workers — are engaged in DWP roles. <BR /> <BR />However, the strategic priority remains to reduce reliance on agency workers by building a resilient and sustainable permanent workforce. That is being advanced through effective workforce planning and our extensive programme of recruitment. Approximately 260 recruitment competitions are under way across a range of grades. As those competitions conclude and successful candidates take up post, agency usage is expected to decrease on a phased and managed basis.”
“Agency staff provide an important and flexible resource in supporting Departments to manage time-bound work pressures and meet specific business needs. Their use helps to ensure continuity in public service delivery and minimises disruption to critical Civil Service operations. For some workers, agency contracts are a suitable and positive choice, offering flexibility to balance personal commitments while gaining skills, experience and employment opportunities. Over 70% of agency workers — approximately 3,720 — are currently on assignment in the Department for Communities, demonstrating the significant reliance on that flexible workforce to support ongoing service delivery.”
“As I said in answer to the previous question, it would depend on whether primary or secondary legislation required changing. GRO has been contacted on the issue approximately five times in the past year, usually by couples seeking clarification that the information provided by the registrar is correct. Legislation takes time to go through the House, depending on what category it falls into. I suspect that it may be the next mandate before this can be finalised. As I said, GRO is investigating, and I have no doubt that there would be a willingness in the Chamber and in Committees to move the matter forward as quickly as possible, as long as we can be assured that we are making the correct changes.”
“I have asked officials in GRO to investigate the matter. At this initial stage, we suspect that it would require legislative change. However, I am supportive of exploring what we can do, given the variety of reasons why someone may not want either parent named on their marriage certificate. In the case that the Member outlined, the person wanted to recognise the role of their step-parent. I am fully supportive of trying to do something about that. As I said, GRO is investigating the issue. If legislative change is required, whether primary legislation or regulations, that will take time, but I will keep the Member updated.”
“I have asked my officials in the General Register Office to consider the matter and examine what legislative change might address the position to enable a step-parent's details to be included on a marriage notice registration. The Member will appreciate that any necessary legislative change would take time to progress.”
“The General Register Office (GRO) must abide by the legislative positions outlined in article 3 of the Marriage (NI) Order 2003 and schedule 1 to the Marriage Regulations (NI) 2003. The Order sets out the legal requirements for parties wishing to get married here to supply details of both parents. The details should be those that appear on each party's full birth or adoption certificate. That means that the name of the step-parent cannot currently be included on a marriage notice form or registration. I understand that that is very disappointing for people who wish to get married and include a step-parent, and I am keen to seek a way forward.”
“For far too long, the British Government have relied on packages or support packages for this place — whatever term you want to put on it — but the reality always comes back to this: if we are not being funded fairly, it is impossible for the Executive to put the finances for this place on a sustainable footing and carry out the transformation work that is required across a wide range of public services to transform them into models that deliver high-quality public services. Let us get it sorted once and for all. Let us have funding that is fair, equitable and on a sustainable footing.”
“The most recent works carried out by Professor Holtham investigated our level of need. The British Government have come down on a figure of around 124% in relation to that report. There is an argument to be made that it should be around 128% when you include agriculture in the calculation. However, I am looking at other devolved institutions that receive funding well above their level of need, something that has been confirmed again by the Fiscal Council report that was published last week. <BR /> <BR />This is about fairness, equality and respect — treating people here with all of those things and ensuring that the Executive are able to properly fund public services, invest in the economy and put this place on a stable footing.”
“We are dealing with the Administration who are in place at this time and setting out our position robustly to them. Those engagements continue. It is not the role of the sitting Finance Minister to reach out to potential incumbents. There may well be others who reach out politically — that is perfectly understandable and fine — but I, as Finance Minister, have protocols and measures to follow that I will continue to follow. The engagements with the British Government continue. They need to intensify and reach conclusions as quickly as possible.”
“We are seeking a fair and proper funding settlement for taxpayers here that, in turn, will allow us to invest in public services and grow our economy. Those are the measures that we are taking. <BR /> <BR />It is understandable that "What if?" discussions are taking place with Members. I am planning for all scenarios, as I said in my previous answer. I am engaging with my officials, and I have fully briefed my Executive colleagues on the matter. Let us maintain unity of purpose and ensure that taxpayers here — the families and workers who contribute to our society and to the economy — get a fair return on the taxes that are being sent to the Treasury.”
“I too want to see substance over a PR exercise, as the Member referenced. There needs to be a complete change of direction from the British Government in relation to their economic strategy and economic policies. There needs to be funding of public services, investment in infrastructure and investment in the economy to sustain and create jobs into the future and to tackle the cost-of-living pressure and crisis that is bearing down on so many of the families whom we represent. <BR /> <BR />What are we doing? We are engaging with the British Government on a fairer funding package for this place. The reality is that taxpayers here are not getting a fair return on the taxes that they send to the Treasury. A taxpayer in Scotland gets a much higher return than we get here. A taxpayer in Wales gets a much higher return than we get here.”
“<BR /> <BR />Of course, my officials and I are engaging on all potential outcomes in regard to the Budget, lack of a Budget, funding packages and sustainable funding packages from the Government going forward. I keep my Executive colleagues informed, and my officials will keep their counterparts in other Departments informed of steps that we are taking. We are not at that point yet.”
“I welcome the Member's support for me and my Executive colleagues in engaging with the Government on a proper and fairer funding settlement for this place. On the next steps, he will be aware of the changes that are occurring in London in relation to the leadership of the Labour Party and therefore changes in relation to who will be Prime Minister and who will be sitting around the Cabinet table. I want to ensure that the talks with the Government continue at pace. I hope to see further development in those engagements this week. However, I suspect that, with the changes that are happening in London, there may be some delay to that. Engagement continues, and I want to see progress as quickly as possible. Therefore, we should remain focused on where we are and what we are doing rather than speculating on the future.”
“I remain committed to working with Executive colleagues and the British Government to deliver both as a matter of urgency.”
“In the absence of an agreed Budget, Departments are operating under Vote on Account provisions and have been issued with contingency planning envelopes to guide spending decisions and help to maintain control of expenditure. Those arrangements ensure the continued delivery of public services. While those measures provide short-term cover, they are not a substitute for a Budget, limiting Departments' ability to plan effectively and increasing the risk of short-term decision-making. <BR /> <BR />My officials will use forecast out-turn returns from Departments to continue to monitor total departmental forecast resources and capital expenditure. That position will be monitored closely. Ultimately, agreeing a Budget and securing fairer funding are inseparable.”
“I have made it clear to both that the Executive are not funded on a comparable basis to Scotland and Wales; indeed, the Fiscal Council report of 16 June supports the work carried out by my Department, indicating that, if we were to be funded on a comparable basis to Scotland and Wales, we would receive between £1 billion and £3 billion in additional funding annually. Addressing that disparity remains central to achieving a sustainable financial footing, and I will continue to press for progress, including on a full fiscal framework to support long-term stability. <BR /> <BR />I have also been clear that the current financial pressures facing the Executive stem from structural underfunding and reliance on one-off allocations that are neither sustainable nor equitable.”
“With your permission, Mr Speaker, I intend to answer questions 1, 5, 7 and 12 together, and I request an additional minute. <BR /> <BR />My priority remains securing a sustainable multi-year Budget that provides certainty for Departments and enables long-term planning, investment and transformation of public services. However, that is dependent on having sufficient and stable funding from the Government to implement those plans. <BR /> <BR />I met the Chief Secretary to the Treasury on 15 June, and I have had ongoing engagements with the Secretary of State on the matter.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. You are one or two steps ahead of the argument. We are still engaged with the British Government on proper and fair funding for this place. That engagement needs to conclude. In my opinion, the Executive will have to pass a Budget at some stage in the future.”
“<BR /> <BR />To bring the discussion to a conclusion, the motion, as amended, is the way forward, but I understand that there will always be party politics in this place. That is part of the process, and it is healthy. Debate and challenge are healthy, but let us present a unified approach at this stage. I hope that we can reach a successful conclusion with the Government in relation to further funding. That will bring our next challenge: agreeing a Budget. That will bring further debate and engagement on those matters, to which I look forward.”
“There might be pushback from Executive colleagues on some of those areas and agreement on others, but, ultimately, it is down to each Minister to run their Department, look for efficiencies across it and ensure that it is being run properly and effectively for the public. <BR /> <BR />We also have our transformation moneys and the public-sector transformation board, which is having a significant impact not only on the projects that have been funded but on the mindset and in allowing the Civil Service and the sectors to look at doing things in a different way. You will also know that I have set aside a significant amount of money in the draft Budget to continue the transformation programme. There are areas of ongoing work and further areas in which work can be carried out.”
“Whether you get an invite to that meeting depends on whether you behave yourselves. <BR /> <BR />When it comes to efficiency savings, there has been a lot of focus on the challenges or continued pressures on public services, which are well over a billion pounds. Aligned to that, Departments have also made savings in the region of half a billion pounds. Efficiencies and savings are being made across a range of Departments. I have individual discussions with Ministers when I believe that matters could be carried out further or other areas could be looked at or where challenges remain in areas.”
“Even that level causes deep concern to the public now, because none of us can say that our public services are at the standard that we would like them to be.”
“<BR /> <BR />The point that I am making, which has been made by others, to the Chancellor and the Government is that, if the Executive are to get on to a sustainable footing, a long-term funding programme has to be in place rather than what has happened in the past, where we had a restoration package. While that was welcome and allowed us to stabilise funding for a short number of years, once that stabilisation package left, the Executive immediately ran into challenges because they did not have sufficient funding to run public services. Some people refer to overspends, but I refer to underinvestment, where the Executive have been left in many instances with no choice other than to overspend in order to maintain services at the level that they are at.”
“You were looking for clawback from only one sporting organisation. <BR /> <BR />On the point about getting your house in order, I am very robust with my Executive colleagues about the efficient and effective use of public resources and funding and ensuring that they are used to their optimum and that we are getting a good return on that investment and making a real change to people's lives. However, the Member referred to the Fiscal Council's comments on funding from as far back as 2018 and 2019. The reality is this: the Executive have not been funded in a fair, equitable and sustainable way over the past x number of years. When we continue to go from crisis to crisis in relation to finances, it makes it much more difficult to sustain public services or our Budget and budget planning at the level that is required.”