John O'Dowd
Upper Bann · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“As I set out in response to the previous question, we have in place the vacant property rate relief scheme and the small business rate relief scheme, which are very successful. I set aside £10 million in the draft Budget for small business rate relief to be invested.”
“I am particularly keen to hear from those impacted by vacant commercial units and especially about how any phased increase can be implemented in a sustainable way that is fair, proportionate and sustainable within the tax system.”
“I outlined my intent to take that approach in my statement on 18 November, alongside the fact that reform of rating policy should support growth, make better use of property and ensure that the system is fair, proportionate and aligned with wider economic objectives.”
“The accelerator will operate alongside our highly successful Back in Business scheme, which has helped to bring over 100 vacant high street properties back into use since May 2024. Those issues have been the subject of considerable interest and comment in the Assembly, and it is right that we grasp the nettle now.”
“There are no circumstances in which a hard border would be good for the people of Ireland; it would not be good for anyone. Those who suggest that are being naive at best and dangerous at worst, in the sense of not understanding this society. <BR /> <BR />Rural communities along the border are one and the same.”
“This announcement represents the next step in that. That said, I also put on record my intention to strengthen support for small businesses. In that vein, £10 million has been set aside in the draft Budget to broaden the impact of the small business rate relief scheme in order to increase the number of businesses that can benefit from it.…”
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“By and large, we will support the group 1 amendments, but, as the Minister said, it is not a case of supporting the legislation. This question has to be asked: is it a Bill for every ill? Mr Allister's rush to introduce the Bill has produced poor legislation. The fact that we have 56 amendments in front of us shows how poorly drafted the original legislation was. <BR /> <BR />Mr Frew gifted us with his single transferable speech on why he likes legislation — it helps him to make friends on the Committee, and he likes reform — but, during his time on the Committee and through his support for the Bill, he, like others in the Chamber who have supported it, has failed to recognise that the legislation is poorly drafted and unnecessary.”
“— the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), the Equality Commission and the Human Rights Commission? It is time to educate everyone, not just a few.”
“We reached the stage where, for a certain part of the year, a section of the class was sat at the back of the classroom with colouring books and pencils and was told to colour in while the rest of the class were educated. I ask the Minister: please, do not go back to that mentality. We now have an education system in the middle of the COVID-19 crisis that is being directed towards the needs of the minority instead of the majority. Many say that we have to follow the scientific advice in relation to COVID. They are absolutely right. Why do we not follow the evidence in relation to academic selection? Why do we not listen to the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child —”
“What does it mean in reality for many young people out there? Parents are educators, but they are not teachers. They cannot be expected to be children's teachers. We rely on the teaching profession for that. It needs support to be able to provide online learning to pupils. That online learning also needs to be quality controlled. It needs to be checked for quality. We need to ensure its quality delivery into children's homes. Therefore, the Minister has a lot of planning to do. He must not think for one second that schools will open on a date because he has said it. <BR /> <BR />What concerns me most is this: the Minister has set his agenda with regard to the transfer tests on 9 January. For generations, the education system was planned around the 11-plus.”
“We saw it after the summer break, in October and again in November, when the DUP set dates in time, said restrictions would be lifted on such and such a date, and said that there would be only a two-week lockdown. Folks, the COVID-19 virus does not work to school timetables. It is not realistic for the Minister to say that schools will reopen in normal fashion in one, two or three weeks' time. The Minister must plan for the potential that schools will remain closed for a significant period. That must be planned for. The DUP, in general, must accept that we may be in restrictions for a significant period, and that setting a date in the calendar will not work for us. So let us work on that basis. <BR /> <BR />The reason that I say that the Minister must plan for it is this: blended learning. What is it?”
“If you do, the police have every right to knock on your door and you should be duly dealt with through the legal process. How dare you place society's health at risk? How dare you deny our children their education? <BR /> <BR />We, as legislators, have responsibilities as well. The Minister has responsibilities in this. He may be familiar with this quote: we are "condition-led, not calendar-led". That was the DUP's battle cry in 2006 during the negotiations that led to the re-establishment of these institutions. However, it would now appear that the DUP is calendar-led. To have set a date and time for schools to return on 4 January was not realistic. We have seen it time and time again.”
“I must declare an interest as the vice-chairperson of a board of governors. <BR /> <BR />I am very concerned about where society is going with regard to COVID-19 infection rates. My colleague the Chairperson of the Committee for Health pointed out that there have been missed opportunities; in particular, the failure to put in place a proper test-and-trace regime in society. In my opinion, that has led to continued, wider spread of the virus. <BR /> <BR />To anyone who is planning a New Year's Eve party tonight, I will be perfectly honest: I hope that the police knock on your door. You are putting yourselves and other members of society at risk. You are denying children their education. If you are planning a party, I say: please, do not do it.”
“My children are lucky because they are in a loving, caring family. The heating will be on today. There is food in the cupboard. They will have access to electronic devices for their education. However, the reality is that there are thousands of children who do not have those luxuries. Well, food is not a luxury; it is a right. Heating is a right.”
“It is a very sad day. It is a very worrying day. The fact that we are closing our schools again is an acknowledgement that, despite the measures taken, COVID-19 is rapidly spreading in our society. Many vulnerable people are at risk of dying, and our health service is at risk of being overrun, if it is not already being overrun. At the end of an awful year, this day marks what the year has been about: missed opportunities, lives put on hold and lives lost. <BR /> <BR />I am a father and a legislator. When I look at my children, I am worried about them. I am worried about them missing out on education, and I worry about their mental health and well-being.”
“I appeal to the Members opposite to start treating others with respect, and maybe we will find a strategy that works for us all.”
“The strategy of political unionism over the 100 years that this state has existed has failed you.”
“I do not have time to give way to you. <BR /> <BR />You do not treat them with respect.”
“<BR /> <BR />The flaw in the Unionist strategy for this entire statelet has been that they have not seen their neighbours and political allies in the Chamber and political partners in the Executive as co-equals. When you do not see someone as a co-equal, you treat them as a lesser partner. You do not treat them with respect.”
“The DUP immediately supported that. Did the DUP take into consideration the impact on nationalism and republicanism on the island of Ireland? No, they did not. At no stage of this process have the current leaders of political unionism considered any of that. However, here is the lesson: when the DUP had its deal with the Tories, they were told that the Tories would sell them out, and the Tories did sell them out. The Tories sold them out because they did not see the DUP as co-equals; they did not see them as fellow Conservatives and Unionists. They, perhaps, saw them as Ulster men and Ulster women or Irish people, but they certainly did not see them as their co-equals.”
“They know those positions full well. <BR /> <BR />The then First Minister and deputy First Minister attended the Joint Ministerial Council on European Negotiations that was due to take place on a Thursday. On the Tuesday, Teresa May made her famous speech and said that:”
“<BR /> <BR />I hear a lot from the Benches opposite about consent, about the feelings of unionism and about Britishness. I recognise Christopher Stalford's Britishness. I support and recognise his right to be British, I do not support his position on the Union, but I support his right to be British. However, when the DUP decided to hook up and take power with the Tories, did it consider the impact that that would have on nationalism and republicanism? I do not think that it did. When the DUP decided to support Brexit and become advocates of a hard Brexit, did it ever consider what impact that would have on nationalism and republicanism on the island of Ireland? I do not think that it did.”
“They own the fact that those farmers will be less well off than they were before Brexit. The people who told businesses that they would get rid of red tape and that their products would be sold under free trade deals around the world are responsible for those businesses now being less well off. They own it all. <BR /> <BR />In 2016, for whatever reason, when the DUP decided to support Brexit, it made a fundamental economic and political error. Brexit was the backdrop to the collapse of the Assembly later that year. I remember how, in April 2017, as negotiations were going on in Stormont Castle to restore the Assembly and the Executive — they were at quite an advanced stage, and there was huge potential for agreement — Theresa May called the election. The election took place, and the DUP hooked up with the Tory Party.”
“It has been an interesting debate that, perhaps, could be summed up by Mr Nesbitt's reference to plausible deniability. As I listened to the contributions from the Members on the DUP Benches in particular, I was trying to figure out what exactly they were trying to state, sell or promote. At one stage, the deal was bad; then, it was good but the bad parts of the deal are to blame for the protocol and Brexit really had nothing to do with it. Well, Brexit has everything to do with it, and they own it all. Those who promoted Brexit, those who promised a new beginning after Brexit and sat in farmers' kitchens and told them that they would get rid of all the European red tape, that their profits would soar and that they would be selling meat and other products around the world and there would be fewer regulations own Brexit.”
“For my own mind, I just want to clarify some of the language that has been used during this and previous debates. There have been references to perpetrators and, quite rightly, references to victims. Will the Minister clarify what she means by "perpetrator"? Are we talking about suspects? A suspect is not a perpetrator until they are convicted in a court of law. Alternatively, is the perpetrator that she is referring to in this case someone who has already been convicted of domestic abuse and is continuing that abuse through the court system? <BR /> <BR />When we are passing criminal legislation, it is important that we understand that our job as legislators is to make law that protects, strange as it may sound, the suspect and the victim. The suspect may or may not be found guilty, but, once they are found guilty, they are a perpetrator.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. My question was tabled before last week's very welcome announcement. I may claim in the press that my question forced you to do it. Can he indicate whether those nurses will have that money in their wage packet before the Christmas break?”
“I welcome the Minister's statement, with the caveat that the upcoming centenary of the state will remind us of why we have the educational structures that we have. There will be concern that some of those structures may find themselves under pressure, but we will wait for the review and give evidence to it. I welcome the fact that decisions are going to continue to be made in education, because reviews can delay progress. Will the Minister soon be in a position to announce the outcome of the 14-19 review, which has been going on for a very long time?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement and answers thus far. This has been an awful year for students, particularly first-year students in our further and higher education institutions. What consultations has the Minister had with the Minister for the Economy, colleges and universities on today's statement? <BR /> <BR />If students are being assessed on 40% of the course, is there a danger that they are taught 40% of the course, which limits their horizons for the next phase of their learning at colleges and universities?”
“The Minister will be aware that the latest NISRA figures show that more businesses are trading North/South than to anywhere else, including Britain, and that the value of that trade is growing year on year. What discussions has the Minister had with her Dublin counterparts about protecting the supply chain and the intermediary trades that are involved in that trade to ensure that our businesses are not disrupted as a result of Brexit and that that growth area continues to grow?”
“The Minister is quite correct about the process that he has outlined. The Business Committee, which sets the business of the Assembly, has already taken that into consideration. It is aware of that and is prepared to recall the Assembly if needs be for any matter of business that arises over the break.”
“Will the Minister give way on that point?”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. You said that 1,700 vaccines were administered over a seven-day period. Will there be an increase in the numbers who are vaccinated within a one-week period?”
“Minister, you have covered a number of areas in relation to COVID-19 and how the various jurisdictions are cooperating. However, what is your assessment of how the memorandum of understanding is working, overall?”
“<BR /> <BR />In conclusion, I commend the report to the House, the Economy Minister and the Department as a snapshot in time and a valuable resource as we map our way out of the current economic difficulties. I will end on this point: I often hear Members, particular those on the opposite Benches, say that we have to open up the economy, and then the word "safely" comes along. The economy is restricted because it is not safe to open it up. When it is safe, there will be not be any objections from anyone about opening it up. So, yes, let us open up the economy, safely.”
“<BR /> <BR />If we suddenly have an east-west economy, we are going to continue to have a standard of living and productivity levels that are lower than those anywhere else on these islands. However, if we have an east-west, North/South economy, we can do great things. The Minister and her Department have to broaden their mind to the realisation that the people we represent in this part of the island can benefit from working in an all-Ireland economy. There is huge potential in that for our businesses, workers and families. I feel no threat from an east-west economy. I do not see why people see a threat from a North/South economy. We have to expand and liberate our minds to how we look at our economy for the next number of years.”
“For far too long, our colleges have been the poor cousin in that equation. Our colleges provide excellent academic and vocational courses. When you look at the report, you see that concern is expressed about the lack of vocational skills and training. That has a lot to with the perception that a good education means going to university. Yes, it does. However, a good education and having a good skill set also mean going to your local college, doing a trade, doing an academic course at a college and becoming a valued and productive member of society. I want to see a greater focus and emphasis placed on our colleges that is not to the detriment of our universities but for the betterment of our colleges.”
“Universities also play a role in research and development, so they can bring tens of millions of pounds into an economy. However, universities need to be supported by government to do that. Today has, obviously, been vaccine day. If we support our universities to get involved in the sort of research that led to the vaccine and in the sort of work that, for a number of years, preceded it, we can bring tens of millions of pounds into society. If we increase our student numbers, we can bring tens of millions of pounds into society. If we stop the brain drain to England, Scotland, Wales and elsewhere and educate our students here, we will have an investment in our economy. <BR /> <BR />I also want to refer to the poor cousin in the further and higher education debate: colleges.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will touch specifically on the role of universities and colleges in promoting a healthy economy, particularly as we move out of the current COVID-19 recession into what might be the Brexit recession or the continuation of the Brexit recession. Although we are in economic difficulties now, Brexit will compound those even further. Talks that are taking place in Brussels and London will have a huge impact on livelihoods and businesses right across this island. However, universities and colleges can and should have a central role in economic revitalisation. <BR /> <BR />Universities can be economic drivers because of the money that is generated if they are located in a city or large town. The expansion of the Magee campus will be an economic driver for Derry.”
“I welcome the economic report from the Committee. As someone else said, this is the second report from the Committee in a matter of weeks. It shows that there is a lot of work going on in the background across all the Committees, not only in scrutinising legislation, but in bringing forward reports in aid and support of the Departments that they scrutinise on a weekly basis. The report is a snapshot. It is not comprehensive and does not claim to be. We would like to have seen more voices in it, particularly those of the trade union movement, because that is an important sector and vital to the economy that everyone is speaking about. There cannot be an economy unless there are workers involved in production. When the workers are allowed to play an equal and inclusive part in the economy, the economy thrives from that.”
“Was it John Wayne who said, "Get off your horse and drink your milk"? Did you ever hear that one?”
“I have no quotes from Ronald Reagan, you will be disappointed to hear, Mr Stalford. However, if you have to quote Ronald Reagan to back up your economic argument, you are on a beaten docket straight away.”
“As the Member said, we have contacted a broad range of uniformed organisations, which play an important role in our society and, over the recent period of the COVID pandemic, have shown the volunteering spirit of many young people. Again, I emphasise that this is down to the design panel. It is meeting and discussing, and young people are engaging on what the Youth Assembly will look like, so let us wait for its recommendations and move forward from there.”
“I thank the Member for her question. The extent to which the consultation has taken place thus far shows how the Commission has reached out. Over 640 people have signed up to be contacted about Youth Assembly matters. I listed some youth sectors earlier, and the following organisations have been invited to nominate to the Youth Assembly's co-design panel: the National Children's Bureau, Boys and Girls Clubs, uniformed organisations, the Uniform Youth Work Hub, Girlguiding Ulster, Scouts NI, the Girls' Brigade, the Boys' Brigade, Cara-Friend, Disability Sport NI and Disability Action. That is quite a broad range of organisations and representative bodies that have been contacted to input into the design of the Youth Assembly.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Again, those matters are for the panels that will advise the Commission. We do not want to set out what will happen ahead of the panels having their discussions and making recommendations to the Commission. This is youth-focused. They are planning it, they are bringing it forward, and the Commission will then roll out the recommendations.”
“I thank the Member for his further questions. He will be aware, from even the information that I gave him, that the Commission is keen to have young people design the Youth Assembly from the outset and to bring back their recommendations, and for the Commission to be directed by young people rather than the Commission directing young people. In terms of legislation, the Commission will await the recommendations of the advisory groups and will move from there.”
“The Speaker has said that he looks forward to hosting the first formal plenary session of the Youth Assembly in the Assembly next year, hopefully before the summer.”
“A Youth Assembly web page and online social media presence have been created; emails have issued to the youth sector, schools, further and higher education colleges, youth organisations and sporting organisations, and over 640 people have signed up to a Youth Assembly mailing list. <BR /> <BR />Looking ahead, it is hoped that the report of the co-design panel’s findings on recruitment and selection will be available for presentation to the Assembly Commission by the end of January. Not surprisingly, the COVID-19 pandemic has had some impact on progress to date and may yet slow the pace of progress. However, as previously said, the Assembly Commission is determined that the Youth Assembly will be established and operational as soon as possible.”
“The Speaker is establishing an advisory group to give the Commission access to advice, including from the youth sector, as it takes further significant decisions. The group will be advisory, as opposed to having decision-making powers. A young person’s Youth Assembly co-design panel has been established to help co-design some of the practicalities relating to the Youth Assembly, notably around recruitment and selection, induction and communication. Up to six virtual sessions of the co-design panel have been arranged for December — one has already taken place. Once all the sessions have been held, staff will write up the outcomes and findings and bring them back to the panel in January to allow it to finalise its thoughts and recommendations. Work continues on awareness raising.”
“With your permission, Mr Deputy Speaker, I ask for an additional minute, as I will answer question 2 and question 5 together. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Members for their questions. As Members will be aware, the Speaker, on behalf of the Assembly Commission, announced the establishment of an Assembly-supported Youth Assembly in July 2020. Since then, work has been under way to put in place detailed arrangements for the establishment of the Youth Assembly. A number of important developments have occurred, and I will outline some of those for Members. <BR /> <BR />Two members of staff from the Assembly’s Education Service were appointed to take forward the work. They have been joined by two youth participation officers, who started work on 30 November.”
“Minister, I want to return to the self-employed and newly self-employed. I understand that representatives of the self-employed are bringing forward to the Minister proposals that would meet her objectives of ensuring that the public purse is protected and that money goes to those most in need. Will the Minister take those proposals seriously and undertake to assist the newly self-employed?”
“Perhaps, if guidance is to be approved by the Executive, that will lessen the litigation against contracts. Given the scale of the contracts awarded at times, it is unsurprising that judicial reviews (JRs) etc are brought, but we have to reduce those. Will the Minister ensure that the Procurement Board looks at how legal action can be minimised? Several weeks ago, the Economy Committee received a presentation from the Law Society on mediation in such matters. Will the Minister ask the Procurement Board to look at that process as well?”
“On a point of order, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. I wish to clarify whether points of order are allowed during a ministerial statement and the questions that follow?”
“The state has now refused to carry out an inquiry into that. The state has a duty to carry out an inquiry into that.”
“Those who say — some say it in a dignified manner, others are just brutally ignorant in their response — that there are other victims out there are quite correct. However, what stands out about Pat's case is that the state was involved in his murder. In what other circumstances would this House divide or say, "Well, perhaps the British Government are correct. There should not be an inquiry"? The allegation sits. The facts sit: the state was involved in the murder of a solicitor in this society. That should concern everyone in the House, regardless of your political allegiance or your views on the conflict of the past. The state, the people who told us that they were protecting us, and the security forces, who told us that they were there for our security, plotted, planned and carried out the murder of a solicitor.”
“What does that mean? It means that those who were tasked with, first of all, protecting Pat Finucane and his family were involved in his murder, and those who were tasked with investigating the murder of Pat Finucane were involved in his murder. How can those who were tasked with protecting him and who failed him, and those who were tasked with investigating his murder but were involved in his murder, in any real terms investigate his murder? Hence the need for a full public inquiry into his murder. Indeed, in 2001, the British Government committed themselves to an inquiry into his murder, such were the levels of concern around the collusion in this case.”
“I rise to speak on yesterday's decision by the British Government not to hold a full public inquiry into the murder of human rights lawyer Pat Finucane. I want to start by paying tribute to the resilience, courage and, indeed, dignity of Geraldine Finucane and the Finucane family in their 31-year campaign for the truth about Pat's killing. <BR /> <BR />I am conscious that, when such events and stories hit the news headlines, many victims out there reflect on the loss of their loved ones, and many victims also seek justice for their loved ones. What makes Pat Finucane's case stand out? It is this: there have been several investigations into his murder, and most of them — indeed, the most high-profile of them — have concluded, and the then British Prime Minister stated, that there were high levels of collusion by the state in his murder.”