John O'Dowd
Upper Bann · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“As I set out in response to the previous question, we have in place the vacant property rate relief scheme and the small business rate relief scheme, which are very successful. I set aside £10 million in the draft Budget for small business rate relief to be invested.”
“I am particularly keen to hear from those impacted by vacant commercial units and especially about how any phased increase can be implemented in a sustainable way that is fair, proportionate and sustainable within the tax system.”
“I outlined my intent to take that approach in my statement on 18 November, alongside the fact that reform of rating policy should support growth, make better use of property and ensure that the system is fair, proportionate and aligned with wider economic objectives.”
“The accelerator will operate alongside our highly successful Back in Business scheme, which has helped to bring over 100 vacant high street properties back into use since May 2024. Those issues have been the subject of considerable interest and comment in the Assembly, and it is right that we grasp the nettle now.”
“There are no circumstances in which a hard border would be good for the people of Ireland; it would not be good for anyone. Those who suggest that are being naive at best and dangerous at worst, in the sense of not understanding this society. <BR /> <BR />Rural communities along the border are one and the same.”
“This announcement represents the next step in that. That said, I also put on record my intention to strengthen support for small businesses. In that vein, £10 million has been set aside in the draft Budget to broaden the impact of the small business rate relief scheme in order to increase the number of businesses that can benefit from it.…”
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“I support that in principle, but, as with any public body coming to me seeking further funds, I want to be assured that those further funds will make a crucial difference to front-line public services and that they are doing everything in their power to reduce their costs. Regardless of the title of the public body that comes to me, I ask, "What are you doing to help yourself?", and I will ask the same question when I meet the Justice Minister on policing. <BR /> <BR />The police have asked for an additional £5 million in relation to the cost of the operations to deal with the rioting and street disorder over recent days. As part of the June monitoring round, I will recommend to Executive colleagues that that £5 million request be met in full.”
“I do not have the figures in front of me that the Member quotes, but I will say this. What police are dealing with in our society has changed over the last number of years, so it is only natural that the funding package will reflect the changes. That is for the better, it has to be said. New challenges arrive, and we saw the challenges at the weekend in relation to street disorder. <BR /> <BR />Professor Holtham looked at policing in his report, and he was satisfied that the Fiscal Council's equation for policing was satisfactory. My officials have approved the business plan forwarded by the PSNI in relation to policing numbers moving forward.”
“Engagement between my officials and officials in other Departments is already taking place as to how we move that forward, and we are assisting Departments with their five-year plans and strategies. I hope to bring a multi-year Budget to the Executive in December, have a draft agreed in December and then go out to public consultation. I then intend to bring a final document forward in March, in line with the time frames to which we work. As for next steps with the Treasury, I intend to engage with it and my officials will engage at official level on a full fiscal framework, which will involve fiscal devolution and borrowing powers for the Executive, among other things.”
“The details of that are still to be finalised. It will involve the GAA as well, because the stadium belongs to the GAA, and whether the Executive or the Westminster Government take a share in it is a discussion that will have to be had, first and foremost, with the GAA. The fact of the matter remains that there is now £50 million that was not there previously on the table to advance that project.”
“That was a vital point of discussion with the Treasury, and it was crucial that it either was not included in the funding for relative need or was included in both sides of the equation — one or the other. The fact that it has now been excluded means that our relative funding need is based on the 124% without agriculture in it, which means that, when you join the two together, you are up at around 127% in Barnett consequentials. I think that we have managed to negotiate a good package. Separating those elements has benefited the Executive and therefore will benefit public services.”
“As has been indicated, it does not realign.”
“The welfare reforms do not form part of the discussions on the comprehensive spending review, but I am on record with both the Treasury and the Secretary of State in stating my opposition to those reforms. They will do significant harm to people here. As with other measures that the British Government introduced and now have decided to take a different tack on, I encourage them to take a different tack on their so-called welfare reforms.”
“FTC can take a number of forms, and we are continuing to work with the NIO and the Treasury on the form that it will take in regard to Casement. However, I am satisfied that there is £50 million on the table that was not there before. How it will be paid and when it will be repaid is all yet to be worked out, but I am satisfied that the terms, thus far, are satisfactory and will allow the project to move forward.”
“The papers that we received from the Treasury after the announcement state that the Shared Prosperity Fund will continue at around £46 million a year. The exact delivery mechanism has not yet been fully detailed, and I will continue to engage with both the NIO and the relevant Ministers in Whitehall to ensure that that is delivered in a way that aligns with the Executive priorities in the Programme for Government and that respects the devolution powers for this place and allows the Executive and the Assembly to do their work.”
“We will start on that basis. It is not a bad basis to start on — securing an additional £50 million for the project. I will work with my Executive colleagues, the GAA and others to ensure that we now move forward and ensure that that project is built and delivered. It will be a huge benefit not only to west Belfast and Belfast but to the entire region.”
“Do you mean, "What am I doing apart from securing £50 million towards the project?"?”
“I will continue to work with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury on a full fiscal framework that ensures that the Executive have the appropriate financial tools, borrowing powers and taxation levers to deliver sustainable public finances and high-quality public services for the people whom we serve. While the spending review has not provided the economic stimulus that it could have, I will work with my Executive colleagues to develop a multi-year Budget that supports families, workers and communities.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am pleased to confirm that, subject to the final outturn, Treasury has agreed to write off £559 million of debt from the 2024 restoration package. While that should never have been viewed as a debt, that is still a positive outcome that is a direct result of the Executive's hard work in delivering a balanced Budget in 2024-25 and raising the necessary additional revenue by 2025-26. <BR /> <BR />Since taking up the role of Finance Minister, I have said consistently that I will do everything within my power to ensure that our public services are fairly and properly funded.”
“That is why my focus is to ensure that every pound is used wisely and strategically. The Executive will work together to agree a multi-year Budget that aligns with and supports our Programme for Government priorities, focuses on what matters most to our people and delivers tangible improvements that will be felt across society in the years ahead. <BR /> <BR />Beyond the direct financial implications, there were other important announcements. I welcome the British Government's commitment to provide £50 million for Casement Park. That funding brings new momentum to a vital project that will deliver a modern sporting venue for generations to come but will also be an economic driver for the surrounding communities and region. I urge all partners to work together to get Casement built. I stand ready to play my part.”
“<BR /> <BR />Over the three-year resource period, from 2026-27 to 2028-29, the Executive will receive £16·3 billion, £16·8 billion and £17·3 billion respectively. While that includes an additional £3·1 billion in Barnett for day-to-day spending over the three-year period, it must be viewed in the context of rising demand and the increasing cost of delivering public services. <BR /> <BR />For capital, the Executive will receive £2·3 billion in each of the four years covered by the spending review ending in 2029-2030. I believe that there was an opportunity for the Chancellor to have been much more ambitious with capital investment to spur economic growth. <BR /> <BR />The reality is that the Executive will remain financially constrained, particularly in 2026–27, as the biggest uplifts in day-to-day spending power occur in subsequent years.”
“Discussions on it will begin immediately and will cover a number of areas, including the Holtham review of the Executive's relative need, borrowing powers of the Housing Executive and fiscal devolution. <BR /> <BR />In my view, the spending review represented a missed opportunity to significantly increase investment in public services and deliver the level of economic stimulus that was necessary. However, by setting the resource departmental expenditure limit (DEL) funding envelope for the next three years and capital funding for the next four years, it has provided the Executive with the opportunity to set their first multi-year Budget in over a decade. That will bring funding certainty, enabling Departments to plan on a longer-term basis, and it creates the conditions to drive real transformational change in our public services.”
“<BR /> <BR />The agreement secured with the Treasury has ensured that we receive a 24% uplift on the additional funding provided by last week's spending review announcement, rather than the lower transitional rate of 5%, which would have otherwise applied. That will provide some £600 million more than the original Treasury position. Without that, the financial cliff edge that I previously warned Members about would have become a reality, resulting in damage to our front-line public services. <BR /> <BR />As a result of negotiations with the Treasury, my predecessor and I have delivered an additional £1·3 billion since the beginning of the mandate. Importantly, the agreement also lays the groundwork for agreeing a full fiscal framework.”
“<BR /> <BR />I thank Professor Gerry Holtham for his report, which was published last week. It added considerable weight in helping us to make the case to Treasury that the Executive must be funded fairly and sustainably. Professor Holtham's review provided a range of need levels. His estimates include a level of need of 123%, before Agriculture spending is included, and a central estimate of 128%, with Agriculture included. <BR /> <BR />A major factor influencing the funding provided to the Executive was the agreement that I secured from the Treasury to exclude £329 million in Agriculture funding, which was un-ring-fenced and baselined at phase 1 of the spending review from our relative funding calculation.”
“Thank you for the opportunity to update Members today on the implications of last week's spending review announcement on our public finances. <BR /> <BR />As Members will be aware, my predecessor, Dr Caoimhe Archibald, secured a commitment from Treasury in May 2024 to review the approach to funding the Executive at the relevant spending review period. Since then, my officials and I have been in intensive negotiations with Treasury on our relative funding methodology. In January 2025, my Department commissioned Professor Gerry Holtham to conduct an independent review of the North's level of need to support that important work. Last Wednesday saw the outworkings of those negotiations, with the publication of the agreement that was reached between the Executive and the British Government to assess relative funding.”
“I seek permission from the House to suspend Standing Order 39(2) in respect of the Budget (No. 2) Bill, given the time constraints and the need the move the legislation forward. It is not an exceptional circumstance — we have to do this every year for the Budget Bill — but I request that the House support the suspension.”
“The challenges facing the current Labour Government in England, Wales, Scotland and elsewhere are clear for everybody to see. I stand by my record, and the Executive can stand by their record, of engaging with the Government and securing extra funding for this place, and we will continue to do so. With that, I draw my remarks to a close.”
“In the absence of an Executive and the Assembly, things were actually worse. Last year, my predecessor, Caoimhe Archibald, secured an additional almost £600 million for public services. Here is a challenge for Mr Gaston as well: if the Executive and the Assembly were not here, that £600 million would not be available. When you hear the announcement from the Chancellor on Wednesday and my statement next Monday, you will see the benefits of having an Assembly and Executive. We secure improvements for public services. I am not suggesting that they are perfect; they are far from it. I am not defending the British Government's economic policy: I am totally opposed to it. However, I believe that the Assembly and Executive make a difference.”
“We may disagree on that point, but I believe that if we are serious about a significant improvement in the well-being and investment in our public services, the constitutional question has to remain front and centre. <BR /> <BR />Gerry Carroll told us all off — all the Executive parties — but, unfortunately, he did not give us an alternative. I agree with some of the things that he said about economic policies, taxation policies and other matters, but, in reality, we are responsible for the day-to-day support that we deliver to public servants, and I stand by the Budget that we delivered a week ago and are now implementing. It is far from perfect, but we are using our resources as best we can to support public-sector workers and public services while we continue to demand better from the Westminster Government.”
“You will not be surprised to hear that. <BR /> <BR />The reality is that I suspect that we are going to continue to live under a British Government that are going to continue to underfund our public services for a variety of reasons, including the fact that their economy is not going to grow, or is not forecast to grow, significantly over the next number of years. Whereas, if you look to our neighbouring jurisdiction, next door, its economy is growing. Look at the surplus that it currently has. I think, in fairness, the people who live on this island can manage this island much better than those who live on our neighbouring island.”
“He has said that when people ask him, as an MLA, "What is my budget being spent on?", he says that none is being spent on hospital wards. There is £8·4 billion being spent in the health service, over £3 billion is being spent in Education and just under £3 billion, or thereabouts, in Justice. It tallies up, but can we deliver an effective and efficient service? We have to make sure that we do, but we also have to remember that, despite our obvious political differences around the constitutional question, I do not wake up every morning and praise the Lord that the British Government are responsible for our well-being and our affairs.”
“He is quite right to challenge — as are all Members, and it was a common theme throughout the discussion — Ministers and Departments to run an effective and efficient service. He is quite right to do that, but to suggest that no money is being spent on Health is incorrect, there is —”
“It is a credit to him, and he deserves admiration for it. Well done on that one. The Member will realise that, to run this place, they have to pay us, all the people who work in this Building and the people who work with us to deliver the services.”
“I congratulate him for working for free because, apparently, he is totally opposed to the Assembly Commission's budget. Congratulations to him and all his office workers, who work for free.”
“I assure him that I do and that, as we move into a three-year budgetary process, I want to see that being not simply a 1 by 3 multiplication but a transformation process whereby we deliver better services and support our public-sector workers. <BR /> <BR />Timothy Gaston thinks that we have enough at £30 billion. As I said, around £16 billion of that is under the direct control of the Executive.”
“I encourage all organisations not to make our jobs any harder than they are already. <BR /> <BR />Paula Bradshaw referred to the diverse role of TEO and to the Beijing office. It is not my role to set policy or direction for any of the Departments, whether the office is in Beijing or Belfast. Committees have to continue their challenge and support function with regard to those. It strikes me, as an observer, that having a presence in the second-largest economy — it will be the largest economy — in the world is a sensible thing. <BR /> <BR />Jemma Dolan called on the Government to make the right choices. I support her on that. <BR /> <BR />Steve Aiken touched on the issues of the comprehensive spending review and the winter fuel allowance etc. <BR /> <BR />Nick Mathison said that we need to have an ambition for something better.”
“As I have said, I will work with all Ministers, including the Health Minister with regard to the challenges that are faced in the Health budget and the actions that are required to bring that spend under control. <BR /> <BR />I turn to Justice again. A number of Members mentioned the PSNI and the challenges facing it and the entire Justice Department, whether it is overcrowded prisons, the crumbling estate or the delay in justice. I am acutely aware of all those things. I will work with the Justice Minister and the PSNI on the workforce recovery plan. The argument has been made about recruitment. However, the PSNI also has to work with us: every time that I sit down to look at funding for the PSNI, I cannot get past the £100 million that we will have to hand out in relation to the data leak.”
“<BR /> <BR />Robbie Butler set out the challenges facing the Department of Agriculture and how the Committee is working with the Minister and engaging and also exercising the challenge function, which is quite proper. He too referred to the farm inheritance tax. <BR /> <BR />Philip McGuigan pointed out the trajectory of the Health spend. It is currently at £8·4 billion but has risen considerably over the past number of years. As I have said before, I will work with all Ministers, including the Health Minister, on the challenges that they face, but we cannot continue with the journey that we are on with Health funding. It will consume the entire Executive Budget. That is simply undoable.”
“I do not want to follow you down into the gutter, but I have to: there are four of his colleagues here. <BR /> <BR />Mr Tennyson also said that he is looking forward to an announcement on the remaining £109 million in relation to the public-sector transformation board. I hope to be in a position in late summer to make further announcements on that. The Executive have now agreed the terms of reference and the appointment of new board members. I await sign-off on that from the Secretary of State. Once that is achieved, the board can get down to seeking further bids from Departments for the transformation fund, which has been a remarkably successful project.”
“It may not be the most attractive of documents for public debate and discourse, but it is an important policy that will, I hope, provide us with a more efficient and effective way of procuring goods and services for our public services. <BR /> <BR />A number of Members touched on the issue of taxation on family farms. I hope that the current Government will have a change of heart on how they plan to impose inheritance tax on family farms. <BR /> <BR />Eóin Tennyson referred to the absence of the Opposition Members during his contribution. Apparently, Opposition Members were absent during that. I have to say that I never noticed, but apparently they were.”
“In fairness, I will refer to that next Monday in my statement and give details of my engagement with the Treasury in that regard. <BR /> <BR />Diane Forsythe referred to the need for an improved funding package, which everyone in the Chamber agrees with, apart, maybe, from Mr Gaston. A number of Members raised the importance of a three-year Budget. As I said, that will be a game changer. We will still have a restricted Budget, but the ability to plan for a three-year Budget will allow not only for services to be delivered more effectively and efficiently but for transformation. <BR /> <BR />Ms Forsythe also referred to the publication of the new procurement policy, which is a strategic step forward.”
“Given their change of mind on the winter fuel payment, I hope that the Government will also change their mind on those welfare cuts and reverse that policy. <BR /> <BR />Diane Forsythe —.”
“<BR /> <BR />As part of the transformation projects, £15 million was awarded to the Department for Infrastructure for an urban drainage pilot project to transform the way in which rainwater is managed in our towns and cities, because we send millions, if not billions, of cubic litres of water to waste water treatment works that we should not send. If we can manage that in a different way, let us do so. There is a plan. You may not agree with that plan. As I often say in the Chamber, if you do not like that plan, produce your own and let the public judge it. <BR /> <BR />Colm Gildernew, as Chair of the Communities Committee, referred to the ongoing welfare cuts and the plans by the current Labour Administration to implement further welfare cuts. Those will have a significant impact on all our communities.”
“They should challenge me as Finance Minister and the Communities Minister on the social housing issue. The year is not yet over. The Communities Minister will bring a plan to the Executive. I look forward to hearing his plan for how we will fulfil the targets for this year and as we move forward. <BR /> <BR />Mr O'Toole claimed that there is no plan for NI Water — I beg to disagree — and for how we will deal with our waste water infrastructure and all those challenging issues. The sustainable urban drainage systems (SuDS) legislation will, I believe, be before the Chamber in the near future. The current public consultation on developer charges closes on 27 June. The Executive will continue their rolling investment in NI Water, both at the start of the budgetary year and during the year through monitoring rounds.”
“He will be acutely aware that the Executive control around £16 billion of that. The other £11 billion is annually managed expenditure and is set for issues such as benefits and other matters. He will be acutely aware of that, but I suppose that imaginative figures are all part of the debate. <BR /> <BR />The reality remains that the Executive have made steps forward in tackling issues such as waiting lists. There is £215 million to cut waiting lists and improve elective care; £50 million towards childcare; £15 million towards skills; and £5 million towards Lough Neagh. The Executive have stepped forward to deal with a range of other issues and have started to shape the Programme for Government on the basis of the priorities of the people whom we serve. Of course people should challenge us.”
“All of that will become clear as part of my statement on the comprehensive spending review to the Assembly next Monday. <BR /> <BR />As leader of the Opposition, Mr O'Toole questioned the targets in the Programme for Government and the Budget and how they match up. He gave a figure of £321 million. I argue that Departments will need to see a realignment across their funding streams as we move forward, particularly given a three-year Budget, but a lot of the work that already goes on in Departments can and does align with the Programme for Government. He chose a figure out of those. I would argue that the figure is closer to £425 million. His sums were a wee bit askew. He said that 2% of the £27 billion in funding is going towards the Executive's Programme for Government.”
“It is my intention to make a statement to the Assembly on Monday, although a lot, if not all, of the detail will become clear during the Chancellor's statement. I will be here on Monday to present my understanding of the position and to take questions from colleagues. It is also my intention to publish the Holtham report on Monday and put it in the public domain. <BR /> <BR />The Department continues to work on finalising the five-year plans for the autumn, in tandem with work on a three-year Budget before its publication in the autumn or late winter. The Budget will then go out to consultation so that it can then be ratified within its normal time frame. The next move is then to hold further discussions with the Treasury on the fiscal framework.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-Leas-Cheann Comhairle. I welcome the contributions from Chairs, Deputy Chairs and other spokespersons on the Budget (No. 2) Bill. As I have said before, it is useful to hear the views of the respective Committees and of Members on the important financial and economic issues that the Administration face. I have noted a number of issues that colleagues have raised today, and I will endeavour to get through as many of them as possible. <BR /> <BR />To Mr O'Toole, I say that I welcome the strong working relationship between the Committee for Finance and the Department, despite the odd blip and issues that have arisen of late. I hope that that relationship continues. <BR /> <BR />A number of Members mentioned the comprehensive spending review that will be announced in Westminster on Wednesday.”
“I know that the SDLP runs the alternative Hansard in here, but, even in the SDLP's alternative Hansard, I will not be found to have said the words, "You should be grateful".”
“<BR /> <BR />The numbers contained in the Budget Bill are significant, and I am sure that Members would agree that it is not an easy task to translate those figures into the delivery of public services on the ground. The reality is that this crucial legislation is required to ensure that all the day-to-day public services that we rely on can continue to be delivered to our citizens for the remainder of the financial year. <BR /> <BR />On that note, I conclude. I am happy to deal with any points of principle or detail of the Budget (No. 2) Bill that Members wish to raise.”
“<BR /> <BR />While the vast majority of expenditure by all Departments is done on the authority of the statutory powers provided through legislation and passed by the Assembly, there are occasionally some unusually small functions that may be done on the sole authority of the Budget Act. Table 5 of the Main Estimates 2025-26 sets out a summary of expenditures resting on the sole authority of the Budget Act. For some of those items of expenditure, the amount involved is greater than the Assembly would normally be asked to approve or is over a longer period. I assure Members that legislation is being developed to deal with those matters.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill will authorise the use of £27,431,599,000 from the Consolidated Fund and the further use of resources totalling £30,772,659,000 by Departments and certain other bodies listed in schedule 1 to the Bill in the year ending 31 March 2026 — this financial year. The cash and resources are to be spent and used on the services listed in column 1 of each of the schedules. The Budget (No. 2) Bill will authorise temporary borrowing by the Department of Finance for 2025-26. Up to £13,715,800,000 may be borrowed and is to be repaid no later than 31 March 2026. That is a normal safeguard to allow the efficient management of the Consolidated Fund and does not authorise any additional expenditure.”
“2) Bill to the Assembly to seek legislative authority for the expenditure of the Departments and other bodies for the remainder of the financial year. <BR /> <BR />Standing Order 32 directs that the Second Stage debate should be confined to the general principles of the Bill, and I shall endeavour to keep to that direction. The purpose of the Bill is to give effect to the Main Estimates for 2025-26 and authorise the cash and use of resources on services to allow Departments and other public bodies to operate for the remainder of the 2025-26 financial year. Copies of the Budget Bill and the explanatory and financial memorandum (EFM) have been made available to Members, and the Main Estimates 2025-26 were laid in the Assembly on 21 May 2025.”
“The Second Stage debate today follows the Assembly's approval on Tuesday 3 June of the Supply resolution for the expenditure plans of Departments and other public bodies as detailed in the Main Estimates 2025-26. Accelerated passage of the Budget (No. 2) Bill is necessary to ensure that Royal Assent is obtained before any Departments reach the cash limits for 2025-26 set in the Vote on Account that was agreed by the Assembly earlier in the year. <BR /> <BR />As I have said previously, I am grateful to the Finance Committee for confirming that, in line with Standing Order 42, the Budget (No. 2) Bill can proceed under accelerated passage. The Assembly's agreement of the Executive's final Budget for 2025-26 on 19 May 2025 allows me to bring the Budget (No.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“I beg to introduce the Budget (No. 2) Bill [NIA 14/22-27], which is a Bill to authorise the use for the public service of certain resources for the year ending 31 March 2026 (including income); to authorise the issue out of the Consolidated Fund of certain sums for the service of that year; to authorise the use of those sums for specified purposes; and to authorise the Department of Finance to borrow on the credit of those sums.”