John O'Dowd
Upper Bann · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“As I set out in response to the previous question, we have in place the vacant property rate relief scheme and the small business rate relief scheme, which are very successful. I set aside £10 million in the draft Budget for small business rate relief to be invested.”
“I am particularly keen to hear from those impacted by vacant commercial units and especially about how any phased increase can be implemented in a sustainable way that is fair, proportionate and sustainable within the tax system.”
“I outlined my intent to take that approach in my statement on 18 November, alongside the fact that reform of rating policy should support growth, make better use of property and ensure that the system is fair, proportionate and aligned with wider economic objectives.”
“The accelerator will operate alongside our highly successful Back in Business scheme, which has helped to bring over 100 vacant high street properties back into use since May 2024. Those issues have been the subject of considerable interest and comment in the Assembly, and it is right that we grasp the nettle now.”
“There are no circumstances in which a hard border would be good for the people of Ireland; it would not be good for anyone. Those who suggest that are being naive at best and dangerous at worst, in the sense of not understanding this society. <BR /> <BR />Rural communities along the border are one and the same.”
“This announcement represents the next step in that. That said, I also put on record my intention to strengthen support for small businesses. In that vein, £10 million has been set aside in the draft Budget to broaden the impact of the small business rate relief scheme in order to increase the number of businesses that can benefit from it.…”
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“As the Member will be aware, response times from statutory consultees are improving through measures that have been taken in the Department for Infrastructure. The independent inspectors will be appointed by the Department for Infrastructure, as they can be under planning legislation. They will be focused on delivering responses and findings to hearings and moving those hearings forward, rather than involving themselves in the minutiae of planning operations.”
“As we approach the spending review in June, and we move to a three-year resource budget and four-year capital budget, there is an opportunity for Departments to continue transformation, which is necessary and central to the Programme for Government, and to look at their own pots of money to see whether there is a small amount of money that they could use to continue the transformation work.”
“It has presented a challenge and an opportunity to Departments to think about what they could do should resources become available to them, and I am not talking only about external resources. As we move forward and have political and financial stability, Departments need to start looking at their budgets to see whether they can allocate even small amounts of money to transformation.”
“From this point on, let us make sure that that £129 million is used effectively and efficiently to deliver the transformation that is needed.”
“I do not know how much he knows about greyhounds, but I know that he races pigeons. <BR /> <BR />Would we all like to do things more quickly? Yes, we would. First of all, the board was appointed in May, and there was a call for proposals from Departments. Those proposals had to be drafted, detailed and submitted. The board then had to work its way through 47 proposals. I think that, in total, there was £750 million worth of bids. The board had to work its way through those. It then had to work with the NIO and the Treasury. I do not know whether the Member will ever have the opportunity to do that, but, at times, it is snail's pace. <BR /> <BR />We are an awful place for looking at the glass as half-empty. We have just announced £129 million worth of transformation funding for our Departments.”
“I am definitely stepping back in time now. When I was first appointed Minister for Infrastructure, how we might reform planning was always front and centre of discussions in the Chamber, with interested parties and with a broader audience. Given the pressures on the Planning Appeals Commission, it was clear that we needed to take the step of appointing independent examiners. The transformation funding gave us the opportunity to do that. We made a bid, and I am thankful that the transformation board accepted it. That will take some of the pressure off planning, allowing decisions to be made much more quickly than they would have been without the funding, and thus we will support the economy moving forward.”
“It is up to Departments and Ministers what they do when the next round of funding is announced. I suggest that they take on board the feedback from the transformation board as part of the stage 2 process. In my statement, I reflected on the fact that, when I was in the Department for Infrastructure, my officials found the process to be challenging but very useful. If Ministers are to resubmit proposals, my advice to them is that they fully take on board the feedback received from the transformation board.”
“There are terms of reference. They were agreed by the Executive and the NIO. We appointed a board to do a job, which was to look at the proposals coming forward from Departments, and it is only right and proper that that board was allowed to do its job. If I or my predecessor interfered in the role of the board, I suspect, you would accuse me of interfering in the role of the board. <BR /> <BR />Let the board do its job. It brought forward the proposals to my predecessor. My predecessor brought them to the Executive. The Executive scrutinised those proposals, voted on them and accepted them. That is the process that has been in place.”
“A discussion is going on in the Dáil as to whether the Opposition should sit on the Government Benches, and you often remind me of that discussion.”
“We are all acutely aware that we are approaching the end of the financial year. The reprofiling of the spend is accepted, and we continue our discussions with the Treasury on that, but there is no issue in that regard. We are not expecting a full spend in this financial year, given that we are three weeks or whatever it may be from the end of the financial year. The reprofiling of the spend is needed and accepted and will be progressed.”
“The interim transformation board made recommendations to my predecessor that were then brought to the Executive for a decision. The decisions are being made by the democratically appointed Executive here, so there is full accountability around the decisions and their implementation.”
“The transformation board cannot take on the role of Departments or Ministers and nor should it. It carries the specific role of the implementation of the proposals that were brought forward by Departments to the transformation board. While experts will be appointed to monitor and report, the wider discussions in any Department and the wider implications, positive and negative, will have to be managed by the Minister and his or her team.”
“The £61 million across five years that we are announcing for Health today is about improving health outcomes for citizens and keeping people out of the hospital setting. Primary care has significant pressures as do hospital settings. I am not in any way stepping into the shoes of the Health Minister, but, if we can support the primary care sector, it means that fewer people end up in hospital.”
“MDTs will improve health outcomes for citizens as well as helping to address health inequalities across the region.”
“The primary care multidisciplinary team programme is a partnership with GP federations and trusts. The programme has introduced new early intervention physiotherapy, social work and mental health roles into general practice to work alongside existing teams in seven of the 17 GP federations. The MDTs help to stabilise primary care, transform access to services for patients, focus on prevention and management of conditions away from hospital settings, and can better utilise the skills of the community and voluntary sector.”
“As part of the terms and conditions of allocation of funding to each of the Departments, they will be asked to recommend experts in their field to be appointed to the transformation board, subject to its agreement to those appointments. Those experts will report back, through the transformation board, to me, and I in turn will report back to the Executive. There will be continuous monitoring of the projects to determine whether they are delivering the transformation that they said that they would deliver, and those appropriately qualified individuals will do that.”
“Where they are in operation, the multidisciplinary teams have made a hugely significant difference to the delivery of healthcare, and the further funding that we have announced today will continue that. The announcement that I have made today will ensure that approximately a third of the population is covered by multidisciplinary teams. That is a good start.”
“The purpose of setting up a board to look at those matters and to make recommendations to the Executive was that its members were believed to be best placed to do so from a transformation perspective across the entire Executive. The Member suggests that all of the £235 million should have been given to Health, and that is a proposal on its own. However, we currently give around 51% of our total Budget to Health. The question is this: how much more can we give to Health? Today's announcements, and the innovations and transformation that we are making today, will ensure that the general public will see genuine transformation across our public services. The funding for Health that I have announced is transformational.”
“It also demonstrates the Executive's commitment to the reform and transformation of our public services, as published in the Programme for Government this week.”
“Having come from the Department for Infrastructure, I can say that the process that has been undertaken has been a positive one so far. Officials have reflected to me that the novel and innovative process has challenged them. led to the development of strong proposals and allowed Departments to demonstrate how they can accelerate the transformation of public services when given the opportunity. <BR /> <BR />While the £235 million in funding will in no way tackle the magnitude of the issues at hand, it will be significant in helping to develop and implement a model of delivery to stimulate the wider transformation of public services. Transformation will take time, and this is a step on that journey.”
“I will formally notify Departments of their funding allocations, including the conditions of approvals, to enable spend to commence in 2024-25. <BR /> <BR />Following the allocation of the funds, approximately £102·5 million remains for distribution. That funding will be utilised through a combination of digital proposals, which are deemed to be transformational and agreed by the Executive, and proposals received following any subsequent call for transformation proposals. My expectation is that the second call for proposals will take place in late spring or summer of this year. I therefore place on record my thanks to the public-sector transformation board for all its work during that process and to all Departments for their engagement and active participation in the transformation programme.”
“That will help the Planning Appeals Commission to address its resource issues and will drive economic delivery through our planning system. <BR /> <BR />In addition, £300,000 will be allocated to the Executive Office to undertake a digital maturity assessment. Eighteen of the original 47 proposals that are digital in nature will be assessed collectively as part of that digital maturity assessment to ensure a more strategic, system-wide approach to digital transformation. Funding was also allocated for the administration and operation of the public-sector transformation board, including for the provision of expert advice to support the delivery of Departments' proposals. The board's secretariat will monitor and report on the progress of funded projects as they are implemented to ensure that projects deliver their outcomes.”
“<BR /> <BR />There is £15 million for the Department for Infrastructure's urban drainage proposal. That proposal will fund a pilot project to make a robust case for how we can transform the way in which rainwater is managed in our towns and cities. The pilot will use nature-based drainage solutions to demonstrate the benefits of managing rainwater naturally on the surface to slow its flow into our rivers and piped drainage systems. <BR /> <BR />There is £3 million for the Department for Infrastructure's transforming planning proposal. That proposal will lead to the appointment of independent persons to deliver reports on planning and environmental considerations relating to major "hear and report" work.”
“That will happen through the promotion of more timely engagement between the PSNI and the prosecution and defence services. The proposal will also target alternative approaches to out-of-court disposals for lower-level crime, which will free up capacity in our courts for more serious cases. <BR /> <BR />There is £2·19 million for the Department of Justice's modernisation of electronic monitoring proposal. That proposal will allow DOJ to transform the way in which it monitors individuals who are released into the community. The funding will enable the creation of a multidisciplinary team to examine the technical and policy implications of implementing GPS location monitoring for those on bail or on licence who are fitted with an electronic tag.”
“It will support a suite of pilot programmes that focus on early intervention and on building an appropriately skilled education workforce. It aims to help address the unsustainable financial trajectory of SEN provision and to improve the support that is provided to children and young people with special educational needs, ensuring that they have equal opportunities to participate in all aspects of life, with greater emotional well-being, societal inclusion and life skills. <BR /> <BR />There is £20·45 million for the joint Department of Justice and Public Prosecution Service (PPS) proposal on speeding up and transforming the criminal justice system. That proposal aims to support the transformation of criminal justice to reduce delay and maximise efficiencies.”
“MDTs are a partnership between GP federations and health and social care trusts that have introduced new early intervention, physiotherapy, social work and mental health roles in general practice to work alongside existing teams. The transformation funding will enable the completion of the model in seven existing MDT areas and the expansion to an additional five GP federation areas, with a combined population coverage of around 670,000 people. That will improve health outcomes for citizens as well as helping to address health inequalities across the North. <BR /> <BR />There is £27·5 million for the Department of Education's special educational needs proposal. That proposal aims to reform services to ensure that there are better outcomes for children.”
“<BR /> <BR />The interim board presented its recommendations to the previous Finance Minister, who put forward her recommendations to Executive colleagues. Those recommendations were approved on 28 January. As a result of that work and following my efforts to agree the terms of reference for the interim board with the Secretary of State and, separately, to secure release of the funding from the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, I am now in a position to announce the proposals that have been successful in the first tranche of transformation funding. <BR /> <BR />Six successful proposals will benefit from funding across a five-year period. The successful proposals and funding amounts are as follows. There is £61 million for the Department of Health's primary care multidisciplinary team (MDT) proposal.”
“On 9 May 2024, the Executive agreed to establish an interim board, chaired by the head of the Civil Service, Jayne Brady, and the assessment criteria to consider transformation proposals from Departments. The criteria upon which proposals were sought included those that could increase the financial sustainability of public services; transform the model of delivery of public services to improve effectiveness and efficiency; and increase prevention, cost savings and early intervention. The interim board assessed 47 proposals from Departments, and proposals that were deemed to be transformative progressed to stage 2 assessment. It is the proposals that were successful in that assessment that I will allocate funding to today.”
“That funding will make a real difference in improving health outcomes for citizens, supporting children with special educational needs (SEN) and in funding initiatives in our justice system to make our communities safer. It will also support infrastructure projects to address pressure on our constrained drainage and waste water infrastructure and make improvements in the planning system, which is central to economic growth. All those are key priorities in our Programme for Government. <BR /> <BR />The final package for a restored Executive included £235 million in ring-fenced transformation funding over a five-year period commencing in 2024-25.”
“First, I apologise to you, Mr Speaker, and to my Assembly colleagues for the administrative error that led to the delay in today's proceedings. <BR /> <BR />The Executive's Programme for Government, 'Our Plan: Doing What Matters Most', has made the reform and transformation of our public services one of our nine key priorities. As our society changes, we must ensure that our public services adapt and evolve to meet the new and changing needs of communities. As an Executive, we have been clear that we want to transform the delivery of public services and make life better for the people whom we serve. I am pleased to announce today £129 million of transformation programme funding for innovative projects that will support and drive the transformation of our public services.”
“I have no doubt that scrutiny of budgetary matters will continue at Committee and in the Assembly. I look forward to bringing a Budget Bill for 2025-26 to my Executive colleagues and to the Assembly in due course, once we have agreement at the Executive. I am happy to — I am required to — bring to the Assembly a Bill, which will also, at a future stage, include a debate about what our regional rate will look like. I assure Members that I am always happy to engage with them and discuss such matters as we move forward.”
“It may be June before we have certainty, given the ending of the fiscal programme in Westminster, but I will press it on that matter, along with a range of other matters that are impacting on the lives of families and workers and on businesses in our society. <BR /> <BR />I am pleased that Professor Gerry Holtham will take forward the next phase of research on the fiscal floor here. We have a case to present to the Treasury and others on that to ensure that we get the funding required to deliver public services in this part of the world and so that we can support those who are delivering public-sector services as we move forward as well. <BR /> <BR />That is generally the broadness of the debate. Again, I thank Members for their contributions.”
“<BR /> <BR />On the issue of the hard copy of the Budget, I received my hard copy today as well. I question the need for producing hard-copy documents when it comes to sustainability. I understand that some Members like to have the hard copy, but, to me, there is a sustainability issue with that. <BR /> <BR />Moving forward, concerning my engagement with the Treasury, I assure Members that I will meet the Treasury on Thursday for a joint meeting with the Welsh and Scottish Parliaments. I will press the Treasury again on a number of matters, including National Insurance contributions and the need for us to have certainty on those figures.”
“Yes, £688 million is not rhetoric. That was given into the hands and the pockets of public-sector workers by the Executive. If you can match the £688 million worth of rhetoric, we will have a debate on it, but the record speaks for itself. The Executive have stood by public-sector workers and will continue to stand by public-sector workers as we move forward. <BR /> <BR />Again, the issue around multi-year Budgets has been raised, and it is well rehearsed. Members accept that, if the second phase of the spending review, as announced by the Labour Administration, goes ahead, we will hopefully move to a three-year resource Budget and a four-year capital Budget. If that is the case, I am committed to bringing a similar yearly Budget to the Executive for approval.”
“I am not suggesting that anybody is suggesting that we are doing anything underhand, but we are following the process. We are time-bound by a number of factors in the fiscal rules that govern the Assembly and the fiscal rules that govern Westminster. However, I understand the concern of some Members about the wording of Standing Orders and why they wish to attempt to change that.”
“Rhetoric did not achieve any of that. Unity of purpose achieved it; the Executive working together achieved it; and a common focus on improving the lives, livelihoods and well-being of the workers, families and communities we all represent achieved that. Do challenges remain? Undoubtedly. Significant challenges remain for the Executive, but, if we continue to work together and focus on the challenges, we can continue to take those challenges head on and continue to improve the lot of our communities. <BR /> <BR />Mr O'Toole understandably raised the issue of accelerated passage and the commitment from the Committee to work with others on perhaps changing Standing Orders on that. I am, in principle, supportive of that. We are not doing anything underhand.”
“I hope that the 2025-26 Budget can be our last one-year Budget so that we can move to a multi-year Budget and a longer-term approach, enabling us to focus on transforming public services, which is essential to put our finances on a sustainable footing. <BR /> <BR />I turn now to some of the comments made by Members. Rightly, Members will challenge the Executive and decisions made by individual Ministers. That is what the Chamber is for, but, when it comes to budgetary matters, there is an onus on Members to offer alternatives. Rhetoric gets you nowhere. It does not get you the £50 million for childcare; it does not get you the £600 million for public-sector pay; and it does not get you the 124% uplift on the fiscal floor. I am not looking just at you, Mr Carroll. You are not the only one involved in rhetoric in the Chamber.”
“The £290 million Derry and Strabane city deal was signed, which will be transformational for the north-west. The Executive, Members of the Assembly and councils united to campaign successfully for the Treasury to lift the pause that it had placed on the Causeway Coast and Glens and Mid South West growth deals. That shows what can be achieved when we work together to deliver for those who elect us to serve. My predecessor, Dr Caoimhe Archibald, signed the interim fiscal framework, which continues to deliver significant additional funding for public services. <BR /> <BR />I am determined to build on the progress made.”
“That included the local childcare subsidy scheme. Over 14,000 children have already been registered, and it is reducing family childcare bills by 15%, supporting hard-working families by making childcare more affordable. The draft 2025-26 Budget doubles the investment in funding for the childcare strategy to £50 million. That is not rhetoric; that is action; that is reality. <BR /> <BR />Close to £1 billion of funding was allocated in the June and October monitoring rounds, providing additional funding for health, education, policing, social housing and waste water infrastructure. My Department extended the small business rate relief scheme, supporting almost 30,000 businesses, and restored the Back in Business and rural ATM schemes following requests from business stakeholders.”
“I thank all the Members who expressed their views in the debate and who contributed to earlier debates on the Bill and its associated Supply resolutions. I listened with interest, and, whilst I may not agree with all the arguments presented, it is useful for me as Finance Minister to hear all the views expressed. <BR /> <BR />Despite the financial challenges facing us, Ministers in the Executive have worked together to make positive differences in allocating resources to improve the lives of workers, families and communities. We have not simply involved ourselves in rhetoric. One of the first acts of the restored Executive was to prioritise public-sector workers by allocating £688 million for public-sector pay awards. The Budget provided £25 million for a range of support measures in respect of early learning and childcare.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“Once again, I express my gratitude to the Finance Committee for agreeing to accelerated passage. I also thank all of the Committees and all Members for the scrutiny that they have been able to bring to the process. <BR /> <BR />This is the Final Stage of the legislative process. I look forward to hearing final thoughts from Members on this important legislation.”
“Today's debate is on the Budget Bill itself, and I emphasise that the focus is to complete the Bill's legislative passage so that we can move quickly to the conclusion of the legislative journey.”
“The Budget Bill reflects the same position and will enable us to continue to deliver public services for the rest of the 2024-25 financial year. The Vote on Account, which is also covered in the Bill, will allow services to continue beyond 1 April 2025, allowing the Executive and the Assembly time to finalise a Budget for the 2025-26 financial year. <BR /> <BR />The debate on the Supply resolutions was held last Monday, 17 February, and I introduced the Budget Bill on the same day. The debate on the Bill's Second Stage was held on Tuesday 18 February. Two engaging debates were held last week, and I do not intend to repeat the detail that I provided to Members.”
“Today's Final Stage debate concludes the financial legislative process for this Budget Bill in the Assembly. The Bill provides the legislative authority for the final expenditure plans of Departments and other bodies as set out in the spring Supplementary Estimates 2024-25, which were laid in the Assembly on Monday 10 February 2025. The Bill also provides legislative cover for the Vote on Account for 2025-26 and the Statement of Excesses for 2023-24, which were also laid in the Assembly on 10 February 2025. The spring Supplementary Estimates, Vote on Account and Statement of Excesses were debated and agreed by the Assembly on Monday 17 February 2025. I again thank Members for their time and contributions during the process.”
“I request that the Assembly agree to the suspension of Standing Order 39(2) to allow the Bill to complete its passage in a shorter time frame and to enable the Final Stage debate to occur in a week's time, on Tuesday 25 February 2025. When the Budget Bill completes its passage through the Assembly, there will be further steps to complete before Royal Assent is secured. There will be an opportunity for the Assembly to discuss in full issues relating to the Budget Bill at the upcoming Final Stage debate on Tuesday 25 February 2025.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“That is to ensure that the Assembly has ample time to consider and debate legislation fully. Following January monitoring, the Executive agreed the final Budget position for 2024-25 on 16 January 2025. That left a short window in which to complete the spring Supplementary Estimates 2024-25, prepare the associated Budget Bill and complete the legislative process before achieving Royal Assent, which is needed by the end of March 2025. <BR /> <BR />I request that the Assembly agree to the suspension of Standing Order 42(5) to allow the Bill to complete its passage in a shorter time frame and to enable the Final Stage debate to occur in a week's time, on Tuesday 25 February 2025.”
“I thank you and the Assembly for your patience and assistance with the progression of the Budget Bill. As Members will be aware, Standing Order 42(5) states:”
“<BR /> <BR />Mr Gaston rightly challenged the standard of healthcare in the South, but that is not about a lack of money; it is about a lack of political ambition. If we were sitting with a €12 billion surplus, I suspect that Members in the Chamber would challenge me and the Executive to ensure that that money went into front-line public services. I would argue that, in the South, it is about not a lack of money but a lack of political ambition. <BR /> <BR />I ask Members to support the Budget Bill, thereby authorising spending on public services by Departments in 2024-25; the Vote on Account for 2025-26; and the Statement of Excesses for 2023-24, as identified by the Public Accounts Committee.”