John O'Dowd
Upper Bann · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“As I set out in response to the previous question, we have in place the vacant property rate relief scheme and the small business rate relief scheme, which are very successful. I set aside £10 million in the draft Budget for small business rate relief to be invested.”
“I am particularly keen to hear from those impacted by vacant commercial units and especially about how any phased increase can be implemented in a sustainable way that is fair, proportionate and sustainable within the tax system.”
“I outlined my intent to take that approach in my statement on 18 November, alongside the fact that reform of rating policy should support growth, make better use of property and ensure that the system is fair, proportionate and aligned with wider economic objectives.”
“The accelerator will operate alongside our highly successful Back in Business scheme, which has helped to bring over 100 vacant high street properties back into use since May 2024. Those issues have been the subject of considerable interest and comment in the Assembly, and it is right that we grasp the nettle now.”
“There are no circumstances in which a hard border would be good for the people of Ireland; it would not be good for anyone. Those who suggest that are being naive at best and dangerous at worst, in the sense of not understanding this society. <BR /> <BR />Rural communities along the border are one and the same.”
“This announcement represents the next step in that. That said, I also put on record my intention to strengthen support for small businesses. In that vein, £10 million has been set aside in the draft Budget to broaden the impact of the small business rate relief scheme in order to increase the number of businesses that can benefit from it.…”
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“The simple answer is yes. They are not only an integral part of the funding mechanism but a great way of working with councils. The local development plans of councils, as the Member is acutely aware, provide local democratic forums that know their communities better than anyone. It is about working in conjunction with the councils through their growth deals to ensure that we maximise investment and the progress towards ensuring that we have a transport system that is fit for the challenges of this century and the next one.”
“As part of a restructuring in my Department, a new unit has been created and supported to ensure that we are ready for the task of improving our expenditure on active travel. We are working with councils on their active travel plans as well. As the Member will be aware, we have to spend up to 10% of our budget on supporting active travel. Although not the primary reason for decarbonisation, active travel helps to improve people's health, mental health and well-being.”
“<BR /> <BR />At the regional level, a new transport plan for the strategic transport network will seek to ensure that people are able to access employment, healthcare and other services and create balanced economic growth across the North. The regional plan will look to improve safety and maximise the potential of our strategic network, particularly for public transport.”
“<BR /> <BR />The strategy will provide a vision for transport that will allow people to choose the most sustainable transport option for their journey, whatever its purpose. Central to achieving that vision will be understanding the needs and opportunities in individual communities. For example, creating more sustainable transport options in Newtownards or Belfast will not be the same as it is in Enniskillen or Ballymoney. That is why my Department is working with councils and stakeholders in communities to produce a new suite of local transport plans that are centred on local transport solutions. That will include a focus on improving active travel infrastructure, reflecting our commitment to that area in the Climate Change Act.”
“With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will answer questions 5 and 9 together. <BR /> <BR />Decarbonising transport represents the greatest challenge facing our transport network in recent times and will require public authorities and society to rethink our approach to travel. That provides an opportunity to reshape transport to better connect our towns and cities across the island and create healthier and more prosperous communities. To that end, I am working with my officials to bring forward a new transport strategy that I expect to consult on later this year. The strategy will provide an overarching framework to inform the Department's planning and delivery of transport infrastructure and services through to 2035.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am not shying away from the challenges that NI Water faces, nor am I shying away from the challenges that they bring for the economy, but I also want to give a balanced message: we are open for business, so come and talk, and let us see what solutions we can find together.”
“Yes. There are definitely challenges with the financial framework within which NI Water has to operate. I am doing my best, as a Minister, to support NI Water. I am awaiting confirmation of my budget for the financial year, and I have engaged with my Executive colleagues on the matter. As I said during the debate on NI Water funding last week, we have to get the balance right. We have to ensure that we recognise the challenges and take them on head-on, but we also have to make sure that we do not send out a message that we are not open for business, because we are open for business. The pre-development engagement process has proved worthwhile for many who have engaged with NI Water to seek solutions in cases where there may be constrained areas.”
“In June 2021, NI Water introduced new responses to the planning process. They provided not only a more robust response to planners but more information to inform planners of NI Water's decision-making process. As has been said by Mr McGlone and others, developers should always follow NI Water's three-step pre-development enquiry (PDE) process. Importantly for developers, PDEs are valid for 18 months from issue. The pre-development enquiry enables issues to be considered at an early stage with the aim of resolving them.”
“I am not convinced that fining government bodies is the way forward.”
“With respect to the Member, that would be robbing Peter to pay Paul. We would be taking that money out of the public purse. All the statutory consultees are publicly funded, so, if we fined them, we would take money off them and make their job much more difficult. All the statutory consultees are under-resourced and understaffed. I am looking at my budget to see how I can support the organisations that are under my control. <BR /> <BR />We are also involved in the planning improvement process. As I said to Mr McGlone, it is vital that planning applications are properly fulfilled before they are submitted. We are looking at bringing forward legislation on the validation list, having learnt lessons from Belfast City Council. Measures are being taken to continue to make improvement in planning.”
“That will be an operational decision for NI Water. In defence of NI Water, it is also facing severe financial constraints, as all other public services are, and is trying to deal with the pressures that that brings to bear. <BR /> <BR />Yes, pre-application discussions are vital. What is also vital — this has come up time and time again in discussions around planning applications — is the quality of the initial planning application. A significant percentage of the original applications are returned to applicants because they do not have the correct information or are not clear or because submissions are missing. I encourage anyone who is submitting a planning application to fully outline their case as much as possible. That will speed up their application and make the work of the statutory consultees, such as NI Water, much easier.”
“My Department does not produce a live count of planning consultation data in its published statutory consultation performance reports at present. However, my Department's statisticians will consider options for the production of live consultation reports, going forward. <BR /> <BR />The information available at this time confirms that NI Water has returned 85% or more of its statutory responses within the 21-day target in four of the last five published annual performance reports and reported its best performance to date — 97% of responses considered in time — in 2021-22. That level of performance has been achieved despite a high number of consultation requests, with approximately 3,500 received per year during that time.”
“The bypass will provide huge opportunities that will allow the historic town of Cookstown to look at its active travel routes, how to provide a place plan for the town and how to make it more attractive — before you jump on me, I am not suggesting for one second that it is not attractive — to shoppers and others.”
“There are opportunities with both elements. The all-Ireland strategic rail network plan will be published, hopefully, in the early summer, and I hope that that will allow for greater public connections in that area. <BR /> <BR />Yes, as the Member stated, there is a public event in Cookstown today, and I encourage as many local people as possible to attend and express their views through it. I have made a commitment to delivering a solution in that area. I want to hear the views of the public on the current plan before making a final decision on it.”
“The Member will be aware of the recent announcement on PEACE PLUS that we will be investing in an hourly service between Belfast and Dublin. That has been planned in such a way that we will be able to change those train sets to fully decarbonised transport systems, moving forward. We invest heavily in Translink in bringing forward zero-emissions and lower-emissions bus transport as well. That investment programme has been going on for a number of years, and I intend to continue it. <BR /> <BR />We want to see a change for private car usage where possible. As the Member represents a rural constituency, she will be acutely aware that families and businesses rely heavily on the private car. We want to ensure that they move to driving zero-emissions vehicles.”
“In my response to the previous question, on Grand Central station, I said that we had a state-of-the-art facility coming on board that will encourage people to a modal shift and to start using public transport. There will be a challenge in Belfast over the next number of weeks and months as a result of that development, and there is an opportunity now for the users of private cars to make that modal shift to public transport. Translink will provide more information on this as the situation develops. The clear message is that Belfast is open for business, but we want to ensure modal shift. <BR /> <BR />I am looking at all the options available to ensure that my Department reaches its climate change targets in line with its legal and moral obligations, working in conjunction with my Executive colleagues.”
“However, as the Department lead for the transport sector, which is the second-largest emitting sector, I am working with my officials to better understand how we can decarbonise the transport sector in a balanced way and contribute to the interim targets and the net zero goal of 2050. My officials are currently developing a strong evidence base to inform the development of both the climate action plan and the transport sectoral plan in line with requirements under the 2022 Act.”
“One second. Apologies. The 48% target for 2030 quoted in the Climate Change Act 2022 is a target across all the climate sectors and is not a transport-sector-specific target. There are no specific target figures set for the transport sector. <BR /> <BR />My Department has been working closely with DAERA and other Departments on the preparation of a transport chapter and supporting the quantification work required for the climate action plan. That will outline how the transport sector will contribute to carbon budgets. Through that detailed work, my officials and I realise how challenging the targets will be for the transport sector, particularly regarding the scale of change needed. Decarbonising transport will require us all to think differently about how we travel and how we utilise zero-emissions technologies.”
“I am reviewing my Department's Irish language policy and ensuring that it is in line with the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages and the upcoming Identity and Language Act so that we lead the way on that. However, this goes back to many aspects of planning: we have to ensure from the outset that our services cater for all the communities that they are there for. Unfortunately, there was a missed opportunity at the start, but there is also an opportunity to catch up.”
“My understanding is that I do not have the authority to issue a directive. My officials and I have been engaging with Translink on the matter. There is an opportunity for this state-of-the-art railway station to have signage in all the languages that represent the communities that it serves. I have encouraged Translink to do that, but it is a decision for Translink.”
“Such plans will be an operational matter for Translink, but I am aware, as is Translink, of the huge opportunities that the Euros afford us and the influx of people that that will bring into our city. We want to ensure that we have public transport solutions, whether people are coming into Belfast Grand Central station or using the Glider and Metro services that are also available. There will be connectivity and plans in place for that hugely beneficial event, both for Belfast and across the North.”
“All transport service planners in the Belfast area are aware that the new station is opening and of the opportunities that it will provide. The other transport services — Glider, Metro and Ulsterbus — are all connected in some way or another to the new station in order to provide an integrated travel solution.”
“The full business case was approved in November 2021 at a total cost of £295 million. The latest cost estimate is £340 million, which, as the Member will be aware, is £45 million higher. The vast majority of that cost increase is due to the extraordinary inflation that has impacted on all major capital projects. The project is due to be completed by quarter 4 of 2025, which is in line with the date indicated in the approved full business case.”
“We will have a state-of-the-art station in the middle of Belfast that will allow passengers to travel in comfort not only in and out of Belfast but to other destinations.”
“I thank the Member for his question. As part of the outline business case for the new station, it was forecast that bus and rail passengers would increase by 32% by 2030 compared with 2015. As passenger numbers rise, my Department will continue to keep the schedule of services under review as part of the review of Translink's performance under the public service agreement (PSA). <BR /> <BR />The revision of any schedule of services will need to consider the availability of funding and how best to increase the use of public transport at the time. The station, while planned a number of years ago, fits into the broader objectives of the Executive and, indeed, of the House in tackling the climate emergency.”
“The new station will include the Enterprise service, which will bring cross-border passengers into the heart of the city via a new hourly service to increase our connections North and South. The new station will help transform public transport by improving connectivity to support a modern, confident vision for Belfast and will act as a gateway to the entire island of Ireland.”
“The construction of the new Belfast Grand Central station is progressing well, with the first phase due to be operational in the autumn. The new station, including the associated public realm works, will be fully completed by the end of 2025. When completed, Belfast Grand Central station will be the largest integrated transport facility on the island. It will double the number of rail and bus stands and will cater for around 20 million passengers per year. In comparison, the present station accommodates approximately 7 million passengers per year. The scale of the project means that, in advance of the opening, there will be some disruption to existing rail services and some road closures to accommodate the works required. Throughout that time, Translink will keep its customers updated, and Belfast will remain open for business.”
“I am more than happy for the Member to write to me about that case. I will ask my officials to look into it to make sure that proper procedures are being followed.”
“It is personal injury claims, and it is usually where a higher claim is involved. It is done only on the basis of legal advice; it is not done in every case. I have no role in it. It is down to legal advice, and officials take on board that legal advice when deciding whether a private investigator is required as they prepare a defence to a claim.”
“Repairs are inspected, although, due to resource implications, not all of them are; I think that around 5% of them are inspected. There are two phases to repairs at the moment. Once a pothole or fault is reported to my Department, particularly through the weblink, it is allocated to a private contractor, which then takes liability for that damage. The contractor then carries out an immediate repair — a quick fix. It then has to return and carry out a full repair to that pothole to ensure that the work meets the standards of my Department. I am aware of concerns that have been raised by Members and by members of the public about the state of some repairs. It is an issue that I am discussing with my officials.”
“During the financial year from 1 April 2022 to 31 March 2023, 3,599 roads-related claims were received for property damage, personal injury and vehicle damage, whereas, during the financial year from 1 April 2023 to 31 March 2024, 5,643 claims were received.”
“I thank the Member for his question. During the financial year from 1 April 2023 to 31 March 2024, my Department received 4,878 roads-related vehicle damage claims. I should explain, however, that, although my Department has a statutory duty under article 8 of the Roads Order 1993 to maintain public roads, there is no automatic entitlement to compensation. My Department investigates and defends public liability claims, with every case turning on its own facts. In cases in which officials believe that the Department can raise a legal defence, claims will be defended. Since April 2019, there has been an upward trend in the number of roads-related public liability claims received by my Department.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. This is where early engagement with NI Water comes in. At the end of the day, it will be a decision that the developer has to make. If the developer believes that the project remains profitable even if they have to invest in it, the project will go ahead. If they do not, it will not. It simply cannot be ruled out and stated that developers will not contribute. As the Member said, let us be open to the question.”
“Apologies to the Member; I meant to include this in my contribution. He mentioned monitoring discharges. Price control 21 includes funding for 700 event duration monitors to monitor overflows. Bathing waters and shellfish areas are being prioritised for the fitting of event duration monitors, so, there is progress, hopefully, on that.”
“I will, when it is my time, respond to the Audit Office report. The Member said from a sedentary position that I will do nothing. I have already said what I am going to do. I am saying this to Members: stop talking the place down and start ensuring that investors know that we are open for business.”
“As the Member will know, an Audit Office report has to go through the proper processes in that there is a protocol on how a Department responds to them. It may be taken on as a report by the Public Accounts Committee or it may not.”
“I am not commenting on the Audit Office report for this reason —.”
“<BR /> <BR />As I said, it is not the model that is important here. It is the fact that NI Water, along with all our public services, has been underfunded for many years, which has led to the challenges that we face today. I will end on this point. Last year, we invested half a billion pounds of public money in NI Water. NI Water is carrying out significant improvements across all our constituencies, but if you were a developer listening to the debate today, you would nearly think that we are closed for business. We are not closed for business. <BR /> <BR />I will give way, very quickly, to Mr Nesbitt.”
“The analysis to date has shown that there are no simple solutions. NI Water has been determined as an NDPB, given the continuing level of subsidy from my Department on which it is dependent. For us to keep that status and to keep it in government ownership, we need to continue down the current route. Furthermore, we need more public funding for the Executive. We need a debate around the Executive table about the Budget. The Chair of the Infrastructure Committee asked what conversations I have had around the Executive table. I have met the Finance Minister about my budget, as have other Ministers, and I have set out the challenges facing NI Water. I look forward to the debate around the Executive table in relation to funding for the Department for Infrastructure, and NI Water will be high on that agenda.”
“I am sorry: I have limited time. <BR /> <BR />Returning to my earlier point, that would also require a high degree of external market borrowing. As I stated earlier, NI Water has already borrowed in excess of £1·8 billion from the Government, and, as costs rise in future, further borrowing will be needed, introducing the risk that we will be setting the organisation on a trajectory whereby the largest portion of its income stream is serviced by debt. Thames Water comes to mind. <BR /> <BR />I do not need to remind Members of all that is happening in England at the moment. Mutualisation is not the solution that many think that it is. Indeed, a report published in June 2023 by the Consumer Council for Water in England and Wales concluded:”
“Wishful or hopeful thinking, or saying, "Perhaps it might not happen", does not cut it. The fact is that if you want to go down the mutualisation route — I do not and I will not — you will end up charging hard-pressed workers and families directly for water.”
“While the principle of a mutual company reinvesting all profits back to customers would at first appear to have merits, it was determined that it would require a change in current funding policy. Fundamentally, a mutual company requires a guaranteed and predictable funding stream that is not subject to direct political control or competing public-sector priorities. Simply put, achieving mutualisation would require charges being paid by domestic water customers. It would also require the relinquishing of Executive control over the company. Mutualisation leads directly to domestic water charges. There is no other way around it. <BR /> <BR />That goes back to a point that I made earlier about government and Treasury accountancy rules. This is set out within the rules.”
“I am not going to comment on that individual case, but most developers whom I meet are savvy businesspeople, so I doubt that they found out at the last minute. That may be the case in that instance, but I doubt it. <BR /> <BR />Turning to governance options, as recently as 2019, my Department established a working group to research and assess alternative funding models for NI Water. The scope of that work was wide, with consideration given to NI Water being able to avail itself of funding from within and outside the block grant, as well as access to borrowing, revenue-raising options and how its classification as an NDPB could be changed to give the company more financial flexibility. <BR /> <BR />Alternative classifications such as mutualisation were included in that research.”
“I will in a moment. Why is it automatically accepted by Members of the Legislative Assembly, whose job is to scrutinise all these matters, that the developer will pass that cost, completely and wholly, on to the buyer? It is our role, as legislators and people who are involved in scrutiny, to ask, "Why should you do that?" I am not saying that all developers will do it, but we should not automatically accept that costs will be passed on to the homebuyer. I will give way one more time, and then I will have to move on.”
“I ask the question again: why? Why is it automatically accepted that —?”
“They provide important jobs — well-paid jobs, in many instances — but they are also a commercial entity. It is only right and proper that, when we are looking at development cases — we will take each one on its own merits — this question is asked: can the developers cover the cost of the water and waste water infrastructure that is required? I find it surprising that some Members completely rule that out and say that, under no circumstances, should developers be asked to do that. I put the question back to Members: why? Why should they not be asked?”
“The price control determination includes ambitious targets aimed at reducing risk of property flooding, enhancing the natural environment and facilitating economic growth. However, funding will certainly be required to achieve those outcomes. Nevertheless, there is progress to be achieved with the resources available, and that will require all stakeholders to work constructively and responsibly to achieve the maximum benefits possible in the constrained circumstances. <BR /> <BR />I have spoken previously about the responsibility of developers, as Patsy McGlone and Patrick Brown said, and I make no apology for saying that, in some circumstances, it will be the responsibility of the developers to invest in the water infrastructure of their development. The construction industry and developers play a hugely important role in our economy.”
“Given its own prediction that it will need around £12 billion of borrowing up to 2050, it is my view that that may put the company on a potentially precarious footing, were it to borrow in excess of its assets value. <BR /> <BR />The motion seeks an analysis and options for the restructuring of NI Water, including consideration of mutualisation. Before getting into that, I want to acknowledge that our water and sewerage infrastructure will undoubtedly need more investment to maintain what we have and to provide new infrastructure to keep pace with our ambitious plans for more social and affordable housing, economic growth and protecting the environment. NI Water has a plan and the expertise to achieve that.”
“That is an important point to highlight, as the levels of additional borrowing that NI Water would need to avail itself of in the future would need to be considered should its governance structure move away from NDPB status and should the cost of delivering its capital programmes rise beyond current levels. That will also be an important consideration, and I know that the Assembly broadly supports my position, and that of the Executive, that domestic households will not be charged for water. <BR /> <BR />The NI Water assets base is valued at around £4 billion. Its ability to borrow against that will be viable if it can demonstrate that it has a defined revenue stream outside government.”
“However, it is also vital to note that, alongside the subsidy that it receives from my Department, NI Water, crucially, has had access to a government borrowing facility since its establishment. My Department provides NI Water with access to debt finance from a loan facility, and, to date, the organisation has borrowed £1·8 billion. Mr Nesbitt asked why NI Water pays interest. NI Water pays interest on the loan because it is established on a commercial basis. That is in government accountancy rules, and I am sure that he will appreciate that we have to abide by those rules. <BR /> <BR />The repayment of the loans also comes back into the Department, but, given our constrained financial position at the moment, it does not provide us with extra cover.”