John O'Dowd
Upper Bann · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“As I set out in response to the previous question, we have in place the vacant property rate relief scheme and the small business rate relief scheme, which are very successful. I set aside £10 million in the draft Budget for small business rate relief to be invested.”
“I am particularly keen to hear from those impacted by vacant commercial units and especially about how any phased increase can be implemented in a sustainable way that is fair, proportionate and sustainable within the tax system.”
“I outlined my intent to take that approach in my statement on 18 November, alongside the fact that reform of rating policy should support growth, make better use of property and ensure that the system is fair, proportionate and aligned with wider economic objectives.”
“The accelerator will operate alongside our highly successful Back in Business scheme, which has helped to bring over 100 vacant high street properties back into use since May 2024. Those issues have been the subject of considerable interest and comment in the Assembly, and it is right that we grasp the nettle now.”
“There are no circumstances in which a hard border would be good for the people of Ireland; it would not be good for anyone. Those who suggest that are being naive at best and dangerous at worst, in the sense of not understanding this society. <BR /> <BR />Rural communities along the border are one and the same.”
“This announcement represents the next step in that. That said, I also put on record my intention to strengthen support for small businesses. In that vein, £10 million has been set aside in the draft Budget to broaden the impact of the small business rate relief scheme in order to increase the number of businesses that can benefit from it.…”
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“I will in one second; I just want to finish this point. <BR /> <BR />I ask the sponsors of the motion what they would do to mirror a 20% reduction in Scotland. To achieve a cut of that scale purely through staff costs would equate to 5,000 people in the Civil Service alone; across the wider public sector, it would be close to 47,000 job losses. <BR /> <BR />Go ahead.”
“People keep throwing up the figure of 4,939 agency staff, saying that there has been a dramatic increase over the past number of years. In doing that, they fail to mention the fact that 2,539 of those staff are employed directly by the Department for Work and Pensions in Britain, not by us. The funding for those staff members does not come out of the block grant. There is no cost to our public service: it is like a major multinational coming in and giving us jobs. Despite that, for their own reasons or using their own rationale, people keep using that figure, as if the Civil Service — or I, or somebody else — has done something wrong. Of those 4,939 staff, 2,539 are employed by the Department for Work and Pensions. Please factor that in when you quote that figure.”
“The Fiscal Council goes on to elaborate on rurality and state that a lot of services in England are privatised. We have resisted privatisation. When people compare like with like, they need to take a deep dive into the figures and look at exactly why the differences are there. I am comparing with the Scottish figures here. Those who want to start off with the Scottish example need to understand that the Scottish Government's workforce increased by 40%, whereas ours increased by 7%. All those things require a deeper dive to be taken. <BR /> <BR />I have answered questions for written answer on agency workers, and I have said this figure in the Chamber on multiple occasions, so the figure is out there, and people know it.”
“— and we are not comparing like with like. <BR /> <BR />I will, yes.”
“<BR /> <BR />I note that the motion highlights the Scottish Government's commitment to reducing operating costs by 20% by 2030. Over the five years to January 2025, the Scottish Government's staff headcount increased by close to 40%. In the same period, our Civil Service grew by a little over 7%. That contrast matters —”
“While some engage in simplistic sound bites, we should always remember that the people who deliver our public services are our greatest asset. The evidence from the World Economic Forum and the OECD, for example, is clear: organisations with inclusive practices and workforces outperform their peers in innovation, decision-making and employee engagement; and societies that promote equality, respect, inclusivity and protections for minorities have better socio-economic outcomes. If those in the Chamber who constantly attack minorities — they should not do so at all — want to ease themselves in some way, they should think of that: societies with protections for minorities have better socio-economic outcomes. Those principles are good for individuals and society.”
“However, that is the collective responsibility of the Executive and needs the agreement of every Minister. If responsibility for transformation is left to one Minister, Department or permanent secretary, the opportunities that it offers will not be realised. Transformation will need to be embraced by every Minister, working with the Civil Service, if we are to deliver the changes that, we agree, are necessary. <BR /> <BR />We should acknowledge, however, that civil servants undertake their jobs in increasingly challenging circumstances. While it is easy for some to criticise and lay blame, most Members, I believe, would want to join me in putting on record our recognition and appreciation of their work, which they do alongside us every day of the week.”
“The topic of the motion is wide-ranging. Nonetheless, I welcome the opportunity to engage in the debate. If we are to make real progress, our discussion must be grounded in facts, not headlines, and in practical, working solutions from across the Executive. Those who tabled the motion have again mistakenly given me, as Finance Minister, additional powers. As I have said before, I suspect that some of their party colleagues in the Executive would not be keen on me being given extra powers. <BR /> <BR />Let me be absolutely clear from the outset: I fully support the objective of delivering a more efficient and genuinely transformative public sector that is focused on saving, getting better value for money and, ultimately, delivering better outcomes for our citizens.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“As I said earlier during Question Time, the public consultation has finished, and the open-book review is ongoing. After gathering that information, along with my report on my bilaterals with Ministers, the Executive will have to engage on how we set the final Budget.”
“Rather than making personal comments, the judiciary should keep their comments to legal rulings. That is my view on that. The A5 case is under judicial review. I await the outcome of that judicial review. May I remind you and your colleagues that you voted for the Climate Change Act?”
“We await the court judgement. The Budget is in draft form only, but there are opportunities during monitoring rounds to transfer funds if there is further delay to the A5 project. I hope that there is not further delay to the A5 project.”
“This is a very complicated area of law, which is why it will take time. Legislation is a classic example of, "Act in haste, repent at leisure". We have to get it right and work our way through the different legislation. My advice to constituents is that they should engage with their solicitor and ensure that their contract is being fully upheld. I accept that that may not resolve their issues, but there is a legal contract between them and their property management company.”
“I have asked officials to prepare the groundwork in order to investigate legislative change on the matter. The Member and others have raised concerns with me several times about how constituents have been treated. I have asked for that process to begin. However, it is unlikely that we will be able to introduce legislative change in this mandate.”
“Schools are a good example of where public procurement had become very weighty because of paperwork and bureaucracy due to their having to seek various contracts etc. We have changed that. I am not sure that that has filtered down into the school network, because principals still approach me and say, "We had to jump through several hoops to get a door fixed, a banister fixed or painting works carried out in the school", and I say to them, "No, that should not be the case any more, because the rules have changed, and they have changed for your benefit". Schools do not have to go through the bureaucracy that they once did. I encourage the Education Authority (EA) and others to continually feed that information to our schools, because the changes remove bureaucracy and reduce the cost to them.”
“During my time and that of my predecessor, we have made a number of significant changes to public procurement. For instance, we have made it easier for schools to access contracts at a more local level and without going through the bureaucracy that they previously faced. We have changed the processes for the community and voluntary sector as well in order to reduce the bureaucracy and costs that it faces. I have presented a number of papers to the Executive, all of which have been agreed. I have raised the profile of public procurement in that fashion. The proper carrying out of public procurement is a very important exercise of government, but we have to look at every opportunity to remove costly bureaucracy.”
“As someone who has worked very closely with the Economy Minister for many years, I can assure you that she does not need any coaching. <BR /> <BR />The answer stands. Of course the Department will develop a business case in due course.”
“We do not know what the Communities Minister is going to cost us, because he is not home yet. We will work out that cost later. <BR /> <BR />The Member knows the answer to that question as well as I do. The £81 million is sitting with the Treasury, because it has not been allocated. There is a responsibility on the British Government to bring forward legislation, which I believe they are doing. The Economy Minister set out quite well at the Economy Committee this morning what role she and her Department will play when that legislation is being worked through. No one here will lose out as a result.”
“As I understand it, the Communities Minister is currently in the United States, celebrating the removal of the British Empire from the States. He might come back, full of revolutionary fervour, and decide that he needs to have his own Boston Tea Party here. At the heart of all our difficulties are a Government that overtax us and refuse to properly fund us. If I am reflecting history correctly, that is what led to the events of the Boston Tea Party. All Ministers have a responsibility to prioritise citizens here and use their limited resources to best effect for all those citizens. While vanity projects may produce headlines for a short period, they do not make real and meaningful changes in people's lives.”
“As yet, I have had no contact from the Communities Minister. As I said in response to the previous question, following the British Prime Minister's making the announcement, I contacted the Communities Minister to ask him to bring forward a scheme.”
“I can assure you that, where needed, I will work with the Communities Minister to bring the scheme forward, but the Communities Minister must first bring proposals to the Executive and achieve Executive agreement on them. I think that that can be done quite quickly.”
“I have written today to the Communities Minister, asking him to bring forward a scheme to support those on the lowest incomes at this stage. Given that, if the money is divided up, it is about £35 million across the half a million properties that currently use oil-fired central heating in this jurisdiction, the sensible thing at this stage is to target those on the lowest incomes. The person best placed to do that is the Communities Minister.”
“You are a spokesperson for the NIO. In this instance, you should be part of a united front in the Executive and the Assembly to the British Government, so that the British Government are made to face up to their responsibilities. We have secured £17 million today, but our work is not finished.”
“I listened to the Member on, I think, 'The View' on Thursday night, when he was challenged about saying that Sinn Féin always blames the British Government. The presenter said to him, "Well, the British Government have a responsibility", and he said, "Yes, they do". Just accept that they do. You do not need to be a spokesperson for the NIO.”
“Yes, it was. That was your strategy. That strategy was rejected by me, the First Minister and the Economy Minister. We went straight to the British Government and engaged with them. They have come forward with a fund today that is completely inadequate. I have asked the Communities Minister to come forward with a scheme targeting, at this stage, those on the lowest incomes. I will continue to engage with the British Government on bringing forward a scheme and funding that will support all the hard-working families out there who face pressures because of the current energy crisis.”
“As I said to you earlier, the best that you could come up with was a press release calling on the Executive to use their already hard-pressed money, which is required for the delivery of front-line public services, to bail out the British Government. That was your strategy.”
“If the Member were to listen to what I say, instead of hearing what, he thinks, I said, the world would be a better place. At no stage have I said that energy or economic activity are not the responsibility of the Executive. I said that the local growth fund is the responsibility of the British Government, which it is. I said that energy costs are on such a scale that they are the responsibility of the British Government. That is what I said, and Hansard will reflect that. <BR /> <BR />We have spent the past number of weeks engaging with the British Government on their responsibilities to fund a scheme.”
“As I have said to the Member before, I expect all Ministers to deliver public services efficiently and effectively.”
“To strengthen our case for fairer funding for public services, the Executive will work with the Treasury to review the Executive’s spending and pressures. The open-book exercise will support a fuller understanding of the significant challenges that we face. Each Department will have a crucial role to play. This provides Departments, including the Department of Education, with an opportunity to detail to Treasury the financial pressures related to special educational needs services.”
“It is worth reminding ourselves that affected childminders will still be able to claim tax relief on business expenses to levels over the 10% where applicable. However, there is concern in the sector. I recognise that, hence my officials have engaged with HMRC on this, the Department is monitoring it at strategic level and I will be engaging with CST about it on Thursday.”
“The lead for childcare in the Executive is the Department of Education, hence we have engaged with that Department on this matter. As the Member will have noted, it has been raised at the highest level of HMRC. I have a meeting with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury (CST) on Thursday — that is an opportunity for a bilateral — at which I will raise the issue. There is no need to raise it with the Department for the Economy at this stage. I have set out Budget proposals under the framework within which I am operating. None of the Departments have received the funding that I would like them to receive. I have delivered what I believe is capable of being delivered at this stage, but the final decision on the Budget is a matter for the Executive.”
“At a senior-level meeting on 4 March, my officials pressed HMRC on the importance of recognising and acting on concerns from the sector ahead of the proposed changes coming into effect. It is important that HMRC alleviates any impact on the sustainability of the sector. My Department has also liaised with the Department of Education on the matter, given its responsibilities for childcare provision. I understand that Education officials are monitoring any impact that the changes may have on childminder provision at a strategic level. My officials will continue to engage with the Department of Education and HMRC to understand how the sector’s concerns are being responded to.”
“We are, aren't we? <BR /> <BR />The removal of the 10% wear-and-tear allowance for childcare providers was first raised with me in January in correspondence that related specifically to the removal of that allowance for childminders with incomes of over £50,000 from April of this year. While affected childminders will still be able to claim tax relief on business expenses to levels over 10% where applicable, there is concern from the sector as to how the removal of the allowance might impact on some childminders and about the practicalities of implementing the new approach. My officials have previously raised these issues with HMRC. However, given the ongoing concerns, I asked for the matter to be escalated and for senior officials in my Department to raise the matter with their senior counterparts in HMRC.”
“A Department that fails to balance its books for whatever reason causes an overspend on behalf of the Executive. Under the Treasury's rules, the overspend is taken off the next year's expenditure. It is then a matter for the Executive to decide how that is dealt with in the following year's Budget.”
“There has been a wide-ranging engagement, and we are working at pace. We want to see the report completed later this month, in time for both a public consultation and reports from the Ministers. My report on the bilateral meetings with Ministers is complete, and it will all come together under the framework for the Executive to agree a Budget in time for the new financial year. The work has taken place at pace, and, as I said in my original answer, the information has been gathered and the template has been provided to all Departments. The templates have been returned, and the data is now being analysed.”
“Yes, it will. The information requested by the Treasury from my Department is wide-ranging and covers the expenditure of each Department, including that of its arm's-length bodies. However, discussing quangos is interesting. We have far too many arm's-length bodies, but, when it comes down to the nitty-gritty of Ministers and, indeed, MLAs deciding which ones to cut, it often appears to be a case of circling the wagons.”
“To strengthen our case for fairer funding for public services, the Executive will work with the Treasury to review the Executive's spending and pressures. The open-book exercise will support a fuller understanding of the significant challenges that we face. Terms of reference have been agreed with the Treasury, and an information-gathering template was issued to the Departments, with returns due on 6 March 2026. All the departmental returns have been received and shared with the Treasury. The information collected will now be analysed and a report produced. It is intended that the exercise will be completed later this month, with the outcome of the process supporting the Executive's efforts to agree a multi-year Budget. The process will also inform future discussions with the Treasury about Budgets, fiscal events and the fiscal framework.”
“It is important that we do not simply take a broad-brush approach and say that AI is the way forward and will save money. Each project has to be considered on its merits, be thoroughly investigated and go through a business case process to ensure that it will deliver value for money for the public purse.”
“The job families framework is being finalised to provide a consistent way of defining roles across the Civil Service on the basis of the work that people do and the skills that are required rather than organisational boundaries. Defining job families strengthens workforce planning, supports clearer career pathways for staff and forms job architecture up to grade 8, which enables more targeted recruitment, learning in the workforce and analytics over time. The new professional framework will strengthen the professional leadership and standards as capability continues to mature.”
“A robust system is in place. We have a team dedicated to protecting our systems from data attacks. I do not go into detail on it: I never have all the detail in front of me for security reasons, because it is, literally, trying to keep ahead, day by day, of those who try to attack our systems. However, we have a system in place to protect the public's data. That does not mean that we are not vulnerable to attack or that an attack might get through. It may well do, but our teams are dedicated and work diligently to protect our systems.”
“<BR /> <BR />Those initiatives demonstrate how my Department is at the forefront of digital transformation.”
“The Integr8 programme will transform how every civil servant, Civil Service supplier and job applicant engages with the finance and HR functions of the Civil Service and a number of our arm’s-length bodies. My Department is also embedding technology into recruitment and training, providing an online portal for NI Civil Service pension scheme members and automating sickness absence case management. The digital workplace programme has been put in place to provide a renewed, organisation-wide approach to information and records management. Finally, NISRA is adopting a digital-first approach by modernising surveys and the census, piloting modular online surveys and creating new, linked datasets to support better policymaking and services.”
“I am committed to transforming the way in which public services are delivered, making it easier and more convenient for citizens and businesses whilst providing a more efficient and effective customer response. <BR /> <BR />While the Department of Finance does not have a remit for delivering digital transformation across Departments, each Department is responsible for managing its own digital transformation. DOF initiatives have included the following. My Department provides a central identity assurance service to support digitised government services that enable citizens to access a wide range of online services. Land and Property Services has launched a new online service, giving ratepayers greater control and convenience when managing their rates accounts.”
“It is quite apt that we are discussing this on the day after Mother's Day. The loss felt by mothers and families who have lost babies in these circumstances is in their hearts forever. In the regulations that I bring forward, I will ensure that there is no time limit from the loss of the baby to the application for the certificate. A time limit was introduced in England, and it caused some anxiety. Whether that was a loophole, or however it might have occurred, that was corrected. From the outset, I will ensure that we get the regulations right.”
“I hope that we will have a scheme opened for applications around June. Certainly, I will look at options for raising awareness of it, although awareness has certainly been raised, given the debates that we have had in the Chamber, the growing media attention and the baby loss groups, who have been Trojans on the matter. However, if there is more that we can do, I will certainly take a look at it.”
“I remain committed to ensuring that the scheme is delivered as swiftly and as sensitively as possible so that parents who have endured such heartbreaking loss receive the recognition and support that they deserve. I acknowledge the immense courage of all who shared their personal stories, which helped to shape the legislation.”
“Following Royal Assent and the enactment of the Deaths, Still-Births and Baby Loss Act 25 on February 2026, my Department has been working at pace to finalise the draft baby loss certificate scheme regulations. The regulations will set out how parents can access a certificate that formally recognises their loss, which many families told us would bring comfort and acknowledgement at an incredibly difficult time. <BR /> <BR />It is my intention to provide the draft regulations to the Finance Committee before the Easter recess. I am hopeful that, if the Assembly scrutiny and approval processes proceed without delay, the Assembly will be able to consider the regulations by the beginning of May.”
“When I meet the Chief Secretary to the Treasury at the end of this week, I will again emphasise the need for the British Government to provide proper funding to all hard-pressed workers and families for energy costs. What will we spend that money on? We will spend it on front-line public services, which is what we were given the money for.”
“This is the second Monday in a row on which the leader of the Opposition has asked the Executive to spend their moneys on issues that relate directly to the responsibilities of the British Government. Last week, the Member wanted the spring forecast profile to be spent on the local growth fund. The local growth fund is the responsibility of the British Government. This week, the Member is looking to spend that money on energy costs. Given the scale and quantum of the challenges involved, it is the responsibility of the British Government to intervene directly in that. In fact, last Monday, the Member was seeking the spending of Executive money on those matters. <BR /> <BR />Those of us who held out and challenged the British Government have had some initial success in this matter.”
“That has had a significant impact on our Budget and on our ability to deliver and maintain public services and to plan for transformation. The First Minister, in her contribution, reflected on the fact that Scotland is funded at 20% above its need and Wales at in the region of 8% above its need. The £520 million stabilisation fund went a long way to enabling us to be funded at not merely the level of need but at slightly above the level of need to allow us to deliver transformation and make public services sustainable as we move forward. There is a firm argument to be made for the restoration of what was known as the stabilisation package, which was around £520 million per annum.”