Edwin Poots
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I call Mr Eóin Tennyson. Again, this is Mr Tennyson's first opportunity to speak as a private Member, so I remind the House that it is convention that a maiden speech be made without interruption. However, if you choose to express views that provoke an interruption, you are likely to forfeit that protection.”
“Sorry — Ms Armstrong. My apologies. <BR /> <BR />That the Assembly could, in some way, get that money out when it is a UK Government responsibility. The UK Government have distributed it directly in Scotland and Wales, not through the Welsh Parliament and not through the Scottish Parliament.”
“I have not got time; I am sorry. <BR /> <BR />Ursula von der Leyen, who was in the Republic last week, made some of the most ridiculous claims about the British Government, who have supported Ukraine in a way that no other Government in Europe have and who have never engaged in the activity that was suggested by Ursula von der Leyen.”
“Today, a lot of statements have been made but there has not been a lot of fact behind a lot of what has been said. We have Michelle O'Neill, who walked out of her role as Health Minister — not for six months but for three years — and abandoned her position when we had Bengoa and there were all the problems with nursing that led to the str…”
“I need to deal with the issues first. <BR /> <BR />He referred to the Budget that he produced. No party supported that Budget. The Alliance Party did not support it, because it did not cover policing and prisons. Infrastructure did not support it, because it would not allow it to do the basics of what had to be done.”
“We had a circumstance where Sinn Féin repeated, month after month after month, that there were hundreds of millions to give to the public when that did not exist and when, in reality, Minister Murphy was racking up debt that will roll into next year, which will ensure that that will be a difficult financial year.”
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“So many farmers are looking at opportunities to capture more methane and turn it into gas to heat our homes and to run our lorries and tractors. The reality is that farmers will produce carbon. When a farmer ploughs a field, he or she releases carbon. When you cultivate land, it releases carbon, because the carbon is captured in the land in the first instance. However, Northern Ireland is very much a grass-based land base. Well over half of Northern Ireland is not suitable for ploughing. Grass is one of the best sequesters of carbon. When grass has been there for 30, 40 or 50 years, it is already storing lots of carbon and is still drawing it in. Going for some plant-based thing that will be imported from somewhere else in the world, using lots of water, will not seriously tackle climate change.”
“It takes the equivalent of 8 litres of tap water to produce 1 litre of milk from a cow. That is very nutritious milk; it is full of things that are good for people. It takes 158 litres of water to bring imported milk from California to us to drink. The experts in all of those things do not appear to have much knowledge of the real facts. We produce nutritious, healthy food in an environmentally responsible way. <BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, Ms Bailey has been a big part of setting up the environment versus farming. That is not right. People in the farming community are the custodians of the land. They consider the environment to be of the utmost importance. We now have a division between the environment and farming, and farming is perceived as being bad. Farming is on the cusp of a revolution, environmentally.”
“Instead of GB importing its milk and cheese from Northern Ireland, along with all the other excellent products that we have, it could then import them from South America, thus producing even more carbon, yet those who proposed the target will say, "Heigh-ho, didn't we do well? We put through a Bill that said that we will not do anything less than 100% net zero". That is in spite of the fact that they would be causing more carbon emissions throughout the world. <BR /> <BR />Others say that we should not be drinking milk at all or that we should forget about cow milk and go for alternatives. Why not go for almond milk as an alternative?”
“In spite of specific requests for those Members to demonstrate the scientific basis for their proposal, not one of them has come forward with serious scientific evidence to demonstrate that it is achievable. I offer them that opportunity again: if they have that scientific evidence, I am happy to give way and hear what they have to say. <BR /> <BR />There are 278 million milking cows in the world. If all the cows in the world were as efficient as the cows in Northern Ireland, the world would need only 76 million cows, and that would reduce the levels of methane from cows by 75%. The proposal of a 100% target means that we would export milking to somewhere else in the world, where it would be done less efficiently, producing more carbon.”
“It cannot just magic up a Bill and say, "This is good for you". It has to engage with the community and do consultation processes. All those things were carried out rightly and properly by my Department and were being carried out when the rushed legislation came through from Ms Bailey, backed by a number of other Members. <BR /> <BR />Clause 1 of the Bill sets out the emissions reduction target for 2050. As such, it is the key clause in the Bill. The remaining clauses essentially identify how we will measure our emissions, how we will take action and how we will monitor progress and ensure that we are on track to meet the target in clause 1 by meeting interim targets and carbon budgets. I am somewhat struck by how those who proposed it insist that we push ahead with their target of 100% by 2050.”
“I thank the Chair and members of the AERA Committee for their scrutiny of the Bill. They raised helpful questions and proposed a number of areas for amendment. I was happy to consider those proposals and, ultimately, to table amendments for debate today, some of which are in the group of amendments that we are currently debating. I will touch on my amendments shortly. As we have heard, a number of other Members tabled amendments to the clauses on targets and carbon budgets. It is right and proper that we focus on those aspects in detail. <BR /> <BR />The facts do not bear out what Ms Dillon and Mr Carroll claim, despite what they say. We were working on this Bill — consultations were going on — when the other Bill was produced. Government has to go through due process when bringing forward legislation.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Importantly, people talk about other scientists. The IPCC, a recognised international group, recommends a 40% reduction in methane by 2050. I do not know where Ms Bailey is getting her science from, but she disagrees with the CCC and the IPCC.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Previously, Mr McGuigan tried to tell the House that Ireland was leading the way. Over time, the Member will probably get the point that the UK has already considerably reduced greenhouse gas emissions. Over the same period, Ireland has increased its greenhouse gas emissions by some 10%, while Northern Ireland has reduced emissions by 18%. Mr McGuigan seems to be a little confused. Northern Ireland has reduced its greenhouse gas emissions while Ireland has increased its emissions by 10%. By 2030, Ireland is proposing to reduce methane emissions by 10%. I am interested to hear what the UK is doing. Mr McGuigan had some green-tinted glasses on and could not see through them.”
“I pose that question not just to the Member who was speaking but to all Members of the House. I thought, when Mr Durkan raised it, that it was a valid point: we have targets in other areas, but they are not targets; they are aspirations. Is it not more honest to take the science and say, "This is what can be achieved, and therefore that is what we are going to do. If we can do more, we will do more"?”
“Mr Durkan previously asked a question about health service targets. Of course, in the health service, targets are in place for emergency departments. I think that they have to meet a target of seeing 95% of people within four hours, there are to be no 12-hour waits and so forth. There are also lots of targets on waiting lists for people receiving primary care and so forth. Is that what people are really asking for in this Bill — that we set some aspirational targets and we engage in a game of bluff with the general public? We would be saying, "Look at how grand we were. We set a 100% target by 2050". We would be doing that in the full and certain knowledge that we were not going to be able to meet it.”
“Has the IPCC contradicted what the CCC recommended for Northern Ireland? The Member quotes other scientists who have said something. Can she tell us what those other scientists have said about what Northern Ireland has to do? Mr McGuigan accepts the science that gets us to the point where we need to do something on climate change, but he does not accept the science when it comes to what we have to do on climate change.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. To "ambition, positivity and hope", will the Member add a scientific basis? We have a scientific basis for what is in the Bill's proposals. Will he give his scientific basis for going further?”
“Does the Member realise that the Irish Republic has confirmed that it will reduce methane by 10% by 2030? Who is ahead and who is behind there? We are already ahead of the Republic of Ireland. The Member is moving into areas like waterways. The waterways issue is entirely different from the climate change issue. Dealing with phosphates appropriately is the way that will deal with our waterways. That is an entirely separate debate. Conflating the two is causing confusion, and she would be best not to do it.”
“I am not sure whether the Member has information that the rest of us do not have that the Irish Farmers' Association is supporting proposals in the Republic of Ireland. It supported this morning's protest, so the Member should not purport to articulate the idea that farmers in the Republic of Ireland are happy with the proposals — proposals that are not science-based either — and it has not been defined in the Republic of Ireland how what has been set out to be achieved will be achieved. I imagine that, when people see what is required, they will be horrified.”
“I have tabled amendment Nos 61, 62, 63 and 67 to strengthen my Bill on oversight, governance and accountability. They include, but are not limited to, amendments to clause 21 of the Bill. I fully recognise —.”
“Thank you. Give me a moment to get to the appropriate point, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Chair and members of the AERA Committee for their scrutiny of the Bill. That was hugely beneficial over the last number of weeks. I am pleased that we are now at a stage when this Bill — a science-based Bill — is ready to move forward. That is hugely positive. This Bill is the right Bill for the House. On one hand, it will ensure that we can tackle the important issues around climate, while, on the other, it will ensure that we can deal with all of the issues that involve our economy, our agri-food sector and all of that. <BR /> <BR />I begin by outlining the amendments that I have tabled. They were all tabled following in-depth discussions and agreement with the AERA Committee during the Committee Stage of my Bill.”
“Not at this point, as I understand it. I know that the Member, having been in the Fire and Rescue Service for many years and mixing with those groups when he went to circumstances and situations, has an excellent knowledge of this. <BR /> <BR />Obviously, training is key to ensuring that the skill base is good in any organisation. That could be looked at in the future, but, at this time, it is about providing equipment. Let us ensure, however, that whichever Department or Departments are responsible for this going forward — it will not necessarily be this Department — continue to support those voluntary groups.”
“Translating that back into old language, I think that that is a foot and a half. Anyway, it is a fairly marginal amount of water, so I understand the issue that the Member talks about. The last thing that you want is for one of those vessels to run aground in waters like that. That is certainly an issue. I am aware of the issues in relation to managing the height of the water in Lough Neagh and so forth and of the flooding that can happen as a consequence. I know, for example, that some people are against dredging, but it is certainly well worth having that conversation with DFI. If, in my position as Minister of Agriculture, I can support the Member in taking that case, I will be happy to do that.”
“We do not want those groups to be in a situation where, when call-outs come in, they feel that, because of the equipment that they have, they are not capable of providing the service that is needed. Ensuring that they have the right and appropriate equipment will immensely increase their sustainability.”
“Absolutely. When the bottom line is going down for those organisations because the fundraising has slowed down, it is critical that they get that help. They will then be able to continue to provide the service that they have been providing.”
“I thank the Member for drawing the Sub Aqua Club's work in Blackwatertown to the House's attention. I have absolutely no doubt that it, like other groups, does fantastic work. <BR /> <BR />I saw the need; I recognised that funding was available this year because there was the potential for funding to be handed back to Westminster. I pressed very hard to ensure that that funding came over the line this year. It would be good if a similar thing could happen next year so that other organisations could be drawn into the net and be assisted as well.”
“It could be a November day, when the rain is coming sideways at them and they have no protection. <BR /> <BR />In future, it will be for Departments to look at how they can continue the funding to ensure that Northern Ireland people who are going out to enjoy the countryside, seas, loughs and rivers will have support if they get themselves into trouble. I hope that, on occasions, people will listen to the rescue services even before they go out, because the services not only rescue people but give qualitative advice on how people can avoid getting themselves into bad situations.”
“There are so many volunteers, and, therefore, such a small amount of money is spent on people's employment, that those groups provide excellent value for money. We get the full benefit of that by providing capital equipment. A lot of money will not be lost in administration. The funding will put material on the ground to help people to do their work. <BR /> <BR />The Member rightly points out the work that goes on in his constituency, be it the lifeboat in Newcastle harbour or the men and women who go up into the mountains to bring down people who have injuries, often going out in fairly appalling weather. On a good day, the Mournes are spectacular, but on a bad day they can be spectacularly harsh, and those people do not have a choice of which day they go up. They cannot say, "I will rescue someone on a nice sunny June day".”
“I have been out on the boats with them on Lough Neagh and Foyle. I was also up in the Mournes during the fires and witnessed the work that people do there. It is a beautiful and splendid location, and we saw the destruction that was happening. Many volunteers stepped in to help to ensure that there was less harm to the mountains and that animals and so forth were kept safe. There is a wonderful reservoir of human beings in Northern Ireland who are prepared to go out and give up their time for nothing to help others. We need to encourage people in that. Therefore, providing the appropriate funding to ensure that they have the appropriate equipment strikes me as a no-brainer.”
“During COVID, the ability to do the normal fundraising, such as through social events, dinner parties and even fundraising on the streets, was challenged. As a result, most charitable organisations found themselves in a more difficult position. I visited Lough Neagh first, and then Mr Middleton invited me to Foyle Search and Rescue. I was struck by the issues and problems that they had and their inability to deal with some of those problems. Finding a means to resource them was tricky enough, but it was something that I was fully committed to doing, having seen the need that exists. If it saves one life, the £1·9 million will be money well spent, but I expect that it will save many lives. Therefore, it will be one of the better things that I do during my period in office.”
“It would not be my thing to go down a cave, but, if that is what people want to do, we want to ensure that, if they encounter problems, we have the capacity to help to get them out of that situation.”
“Over the COVID period, we certainly saw a huge increase in the numbers of people out and about in the countryside. It was almost too successful on occasions, and some of our beauty spots were absolutely packed. That has eased off somewhat, but the uplift is still there. There are still more people than was the case previously. Now that people have realised the beauty that is on their doorstep, they want to enjoy it. We live in a very beautiful place; we are privileged that way. They want to enjoy the fresh air. Therefore, people will go hillwalking and, on occasions, fall and break limbs and so forth and need rescue services. It is critical to have those support services, whether it be for the sea, hills, caves or elsewhere.”
“In terms of the issue at hand today, we have arrangements whereby, if there is a big problem on either side of the border, mutual aid is available. That was evidenced previously, for example, by the fact that a helicopter has come to help us, and that we have sent people to help in the Irish Republic. Cooperating with neighbours in their time of need comes naturally to us all, including the Department that I represent.”
“That is a very good question, and I am not sure which Department would lead on it, for example Justice, Communities or my Department. I do not know, for I have not given considerable thought to it. However, the Member raises a valid point, and it is worth further thought as to how we ensure that groups are more coordinated and, if need be, can call on support from others and so forth. It might be a conversation and, if the Member puts that question to a number of Ministers, we might respond to it. I can see that supporting groups in such a way as to improve connectivity is a very positive thing.”
“The House, the Assembly and the Executive need to acknowledge the work that volunteers do and say a big thank-you for all that they do to make the community better.”
“When visiting organisations, one finds it amazing how many people step up to the plate and want to do something to help others. That is tremendous, and we want to encourage it. I expect that, if we sent out volunteers with second-rate equipment which could put their own lives in jeopardy, it would not encourage people to volunteer. If they have the best-quality equipment, so that they know they have the capacity to do the job and do it safely, that will encourage others to volunteer. <BR /> <BR />A lot of people find real enjoyment in going out to do the job; they get real value from doing it. It is absolutely amazing how many people we have in the voluntary sector in Northern Ireland, not just in search and rescue, but right across that sector.”
“In the case of Foyle Search and Rescue, it is over £150,000: it may be £159,000. The organisation needed to acquire particular equipment, and the money will go a long way towards helping Foyle Search and Rescue in that regard. The Member mentioned the importance of the organisation. That service is out, on average, every day of the year and does remarkable work. He, quite rightly, points out that it does not solely provide a service for the urban part but carries out searches further upstream and downstream from the city. That is how I managed to squeeze a rural element into its funding.”
“Yes. Different organisations have applied for funding in order to meet their particular needs. As we know, all the people in those organisations are volunteers, so none of the money is being spent on administration or on providing jobs. It is to buy capital equipment to ensure that they can continue to do their jobs safely. When I was out on Lough Neagh and on the Foyle, I could see the costs that are involved. A lot of the equipment that is needed is very high-tech. When it comes to distress situations and, indeed, the recovery of bodies, which is very important for families, it is essential that those organisations have the appropriate equipment to do the job. The funding will help to ensure that that is the case.”
“The organisations cover a wide area of Northern Ireland. They include the Community Rescue Service, Foyle Search and Rescue, the Irish Cave Rescue Organisation, Lagan Search and Rescue, Lough Neagh Rescue, the Mourne Mountain Rescue Team, the North West Mountain Rescue Team, the Royal National Lifeboat Institution (RNLI), the National Search and Rescue Dog Association in Northern Ireland and Sky Watch NI. It is clear that the funding will provide a significant boost to all those organisations, which cover most of rural Northern Ireland and, indeed, our seas.”
“It is my view that the services that are provided by those organisations are absolutely vital in the support of sustainable rural tourism and rural communities. I sincerely hope that the funding will go some way towards ensuring the safety of those who put their lives on the line in order to protect ours.”
“The capital funding scheme will support the procurement of replacement capital items, including vehicles, PPE and specialist and other equipment that is essential to the continued provision of vital services. The investment will help to ensure that volunteer responders are fully equipped to provide their services as effectively, efficiently and, most importantly, as safely as possible. <BR /> <BR />The purpose of this statement is to outline the support scheme that my Department is delivering in support of Northern Ireland’s search and rescue services. The funding will help those organisations to recover from the economic impact of the pandemic and provide a strong platform for future resilience in delivering services in a post-COVID world.”
“<BR /> <BR />The range of activities that search and rescue services may be involved in is wide, from firefighting to mountain rescue and flooding incidents — to name but a few — and includes, as I mentioned, helping those who experience difficulties. Timing and the availability of specialist equipment are often critical to achieving a successful outcome. Last year, I was on the front line of the gorse fires in the Mournes, where I observed Sky Watch using high-tech drones to guide the Fire and Rescue Service to tackle hotspots in the fire. <BR /> <BR />Funding for the support scheme, which has been approved by the Department of Finance, will help offset a decrease in donations and support much-needed investment to allow the organisations to upgrade and replace essential equipment.”
“It would therefore be highly irresponsible of us to acknowledge that but not provide any form of support. <BR /> <BR />In considering the challenges faced by Northern Ireland search and rescue services and their importance to rural tourism and the safety of people who live in and visit our countryside, I have directed my officials to develop a support scheme that will provide £1·9 million in capital funding not only to help address the immediate challenges of COVID but to build resilience for the longer term. I am delighted to be able to provide that necessary support to community search and rescue services to ensure that our rural open spaces and waterways are safe for and attractive to the increasing number of visitors to our countryside.”
“<BR /> <BR />Throughout the pandemic, we have witnessed an unprecedented rise in the number of visitors to our rural areas, and I fully expect that, as my Department continues to invest in rural tourism, that number will continue on an upward trajectory. If we are to work together to grow rural tourism, it is absolutely vital that we take steps to ensure that people feel safe when they access all that Northern Ireland has to offer. <BR /> <BR />We also need to be mindful that growth in the sector needs to be complemented by growth in the services that support it: in this case, search and rescue services. It is our expectation that rural tourism will continue to grow, and, with it, the number of people visiting our countryside, which will potentially increase the number of incidents and call-outs that the organisations have to deal with.”
“I thank all those who volunteer in our search and rescue services and work tirelessly to provide assistance to those who get into difficulty when accessing our outstanding green and blue spaces. <BR /> <BR />To say that their work is challenging and diverse is an understatement. It can range from helping someone who has taken ill or sustained an injury while out walking, to helping someone in difficulty in the water or to recovering the body of a loved one. Those vital services contribute to creating a safe and attractive rural environment that supports and encourages rural development, and it is imperative that they continue to meet the needs of the people of Northern Ireland.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity to make a statement on the support scheme for Northern Ireland search and rescue (SAR) services. <BR /> <BR />To begin, I acknowledge the fantastic work that community search and rescue services provide to the people of Northern Ireland, alongside their statutory partners in the Fire and Rescue Service (FRS), the Ambulance Service, the PSNI and the coastguard. Those community organisations rely wholly on the commitment and dedication of selfless volunteers, who often risk their own life for the protection of others. <BR /> <BR />I recently visited Lough Neagh Rescue and Foyle Search and Rescue, where I was struck by the incredible dedication and professionalism of the volunteers.”
“I have been to the Dark Hedges, and I have met the chief executive of the local council, who recognises the need that exists. I was with local MLA Mr Storey, who invited me there to see how we can help deal with that circumstance. It is a cross-departmental issue; as a roads issue, it is not one that the Department of Agriculture leads on, and the Member knows that. However, I recognise that the Dark Hedges are a hugely valuable asset to Northern Ireland — they bring a lot of tourism — and we have indicated clearly that we will work not just in support of but with others to drive things forward. That work continues as we speak.”
“The women and the young people in the rural communities will benefit from all those things, and I really wish that we would stop trying to label one group of people and set it apart by saying that it is not being represented, because, frankly, that is not true.”
“You mentioned young people, and I am of the belief that most of the people who attend school are young people, unless I have been living on another planet. <BR /> <BR />Seriously, however, we are investing significant amounts of money to support the needs of the rural community per se, of the young people who live in rural communities, of the women who live in rural communities and of the marginalised groups that live in rural communities. Who, do you think, will use the halls, for example, when the disabled access is put in, when the halls are made warmer, when women's groups have a local hall that is fit for purpose and available to them and when we have classes, be they arts and craft classes or physical activity classes, set up by people in the local community?”
“I always wonder whether the Member is blinded to what is taking place. If she is talking about young people, she is talking about an investment of around £2 million in rural pollinator schemes that has been identified for schools. I see the Member shrugging. I am sorry, but those are significant —.”
“If we end up handing money back, the cry that we do not have enough will ring a little hollow, so I will press the Department of Finance to get the money to people who have demonstrated that they can spend it and spend it wisely, well and for real benefit to the wider public. A lot of that has been done in our rural communities, and I trust that the Department of Finance and the Finance Minister, in particular, will continue to provide that support for them.”
“The Member will know that I will always bat and bat hard for rural communities, irrespective of where I do that. Be it in Belfast, over at Westminster or elsewhere, I will always fight for the rural communities that I represent and be their champion. When it comes to the development of the budget, we will therefore take all the opportunities that exist from the Shared Prosperity Fund, the Levelling Up Fund and green growth and from what the Department of Finance can offer us. I have to say that we are in a circumstance this year in which we will potentially be handing money back to Westminster.”
“If the Member is serious, talk to and listen to those people, and do the right thing when voting on the draft climate change legislation that will be coming over the next number of weeks.”
“I note the Member's statement, but, since Brexit, virtually all our prices in all commodities have risen. The farming community is in a considerably better position than it was pre Brexit. For example, in October, I was able to offer farmers 6·29% more for their single farm payment than they received when they were in the European Union. I increased it the previous year as well. I was able to deliver it in October — it is not happening anywhere in the European Union — because I was freed from the conditions that are applied by the European Union, which are not beneficial to releasing the funding involved. The biggest threat to farmers and the agri-food sector is the Climate Change Bill that is proposed by Ms Bailey, and which is being supported by the Member's party. I understand that some of them will be here tomorrow.”
“I agree that budget is critically important. The course of work in which we are engaged is about ensuring that we have the appropriate budget to match the aspirations that exist in the policy framework. We will continue that course of work over the next number of weeks.”