Edwin Poots
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I call Mr Eóin Tennyson. Again, this is Mr Tennyson's first opportunity to speak as a private Member, so I remind the House that it is convention that a maiden speech be made without interruption. However, if you choose to express views that provoke an interruption, you are likely to forfeit that protection.”
“Sorry — Ms Armstrong. My apologies. <BR /> <BR />That the Assembly could, in some way, get that money out when it is a UK Government responsibility. The UK Government have distributed it directly in Scotland and Wales, not through the Welsh Parliament and not through the Scottish Parliament.”
“I have not got time; I am sorry. <BR /> <BR />Ursula von der Leyen, who was in the Republic last week, made some of the most ridiculous claims about the British Government, who have supported Ukraine in a way that no other Government in Europe have and who have never engaged in the activity that was suggested by Ursula von der Leyen.”
“Today, a lot of statements have been made but there has not been a lot of fact behind a lot of what has been said. We have Michelle O'Neill, who walked out of her role as Health Minister — not for six months but for three years — and abandoned her position when we had Bengoa and there were all the problems with nursing that led to the str…”
“I need to deal with the issues first. <BR /> <BR />He referred to the Budget that he produced. No party supported that Budget. The Alliance Party did not support it, because it did not cover policing and prisons. Infrastructure did not support it, because it would not allow it to do the basics of what had to be done.”
“We had a circumstance where Sinn Féin repeated, month after month after month, that there were hundreds of millions to give to the public when that did not exist and when, in reality, Minister Murphy was racking up debt that will roll into next year, which will ensure that that will be a difficult financial year.”
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“I invite her to come and see some of the really good work that is going on and which is making a fundamental difference to the lives of children and will ensure that we have better education outcomes and reduce health inequalities as a result, as opposed to such negativity. <BR /> <BR />Mrs Cameron has just spoken about legal aid. I trust that it is something that Ms Sugden, our new Justice Minister, can get to grips with. In the last mandate, the Minister did not get to grips with legal aid, and we are still expending far too much on it. That really needs to be got to grips with. <BR /> <BR />As well as that, the Prison Service has been left in a dreadful situation; Prison Service staff morale has never been so low. That is a significant challenge for the Minister.”
“I will make just a couple of comments on some of the issues that were raised by Members who have already spoken before getting into the issues that I most want to talk about. Claire Hanna's assertion about hand-picked SIF organisations is just an assertion and is nonsense. It is one that she should desist from making, because it is wholly inaccurate. I put that on record.”
“Does the deputy First Minister recognise that removing the United Kingdom from Europe would bring many more powers back to the Assembly, and, instead of having unelected commissioners making decisions that impact on the lives of the people, the Assembly would be making those decisions and bringing about a far greater level of democracy for the people of Northern Ireland?”
“Does the Member recognise that the first educators of children are the parents and that good work is being done by not just the Department of Education but the Department of Health, which has the family nurse partnership programme to reach out to parents who are really struggling? Also, through the strategic investment fund (SIF), parenting classes and programmes are offered through some of our schools, particularly in Lisburn. I encourage Members to take a look at what is happening there.”
“Like everybody else, we are shocked and saddened by this turn of events. Our heartfelt sympathies go out to the Ismay family. The Prison Service is, pretty much, a family. Prison officers go into a prison, carry out their duties and stick by one another. Mr Ivor Dunne was at the Committee not very long ago — within the last six weeks — highlighting how dangerous the situation was for prison officers. Sadly, Mr Dunne's words have come to pass. I have a question for the Minister. When will the Department, the director general and the head of the Prison Service start listening to the people in the Prison Service? I think that ignoring the views being expressed by those people is highly dangerous. We need to listen to the intelligence coming from them and to pay attention and respond to them, not pay lip-service to these situations.”
“Over the next number of years, lower corporation tax will be significantly important, but what are we planning in association with it? What we are planning to do for training, employment and our universities, particularly as Departments come together? How can we ensure that we put out an absolutely enhanced package to business to show that Northern Ireland is the best place to invest?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Our First Minister, who had many years in the job that Mr Bell now holds, will be out leading in the United States this week, selling Northern Ireland and its job potential to businesses in the United States.”
“Does the deputy First Minister recognise that quality people are a key aspect of selling ourselves internationally and that, therefore, training and universities are of huge importance? What commitment can he give that the universities and training sector, which has come under huge pressures in the last two years in particular, will be given the support that it needs to give international investors a quality workforce so that ordinary local working-class people who do not have jobs will be trained and well placed to receive those jobs?”
“Is it not the case that, even if the Assembly went down to 80 Members, Northern Ireland would still have a greater representation per head of population than any of the other devolved Administrations?”
“Therefore, it is important that we demonstrate to our staff that we support them and want to ensure that they have greater security in the workplace than is currently the case. Consequently, it is incumbent on this House to support the amendment proposed by Mr Frew.”
“The Minister was a little begrudging in his acceptance of it, and Mr Frew has very kindly indicated that he will continue to work on the wording for Further Consideration Stage. However, this is a significant step forward in providing better safety for our front-line healthcare workers, starting with ambulance staff. I trust that, in the new mandate, we will be able to do considerably more work in identifying a better means of providing that support for other healthcare workers. I would like to see fixed penalty notices being available for lesser attacks — sometimes it is verbal abuse — but it is absolutely and totally wrong that people who serve in our emergency departments or on our ambulance staff should have to take foul-mouthed abuse or worse from individuals.”
“However, we are now in a period where people are taking cocktails of drugs and concoctions, and their behaviour is wholly and totally unpredictable. Our staff are being put in the front line in those circumstances. Recently, a member of ambulance personnel was thrown down stairs and quite badly injured. In other incidents, ambulance staff have been headbutted, hit, kicked or punched. All those things have happened. Therefore, we need to give them the support that we give to the other blue-light services. <BR /> <BR />Why should a police officer, prison officer or fire officer receive greater levels of support going to those difficult scenes than ambulance staff? I do not believe that it can be justified. I think that they should get equality on this particular issue.”
“It may be just the ambulance staff who are called to the scene of domestic violence, because the individuals are afraid to call the police but require hospitalisation. They are never going to report the person who perpetrated the abuse, but the ambulance staff have to go into that house. Just two people — two individuals — with someone who has engaged in domestic violence. <BR /> <BR />Over the past number of years, we have seen considerably more attacks that are unprovoked and unpredictable. For many years, people could see the signs that an attack was imminent and, therefore, be more prepared to take evasive action. People were very often heavily intoxicated, and the warning signs were all there.”
“During the three and a half years that I served as Health Minister, I regularly raised with Minister Ford and others the need to give greater support to those we expect to serve us. We are asking people to go out and provide a front-line service for us, be it in the Ambulance Service, our emergency departments or a whole series of other areas across the Department of Health. I understand that the amendment is a starting point and that we are just dealing with ambulance staff at this stage. However, I would very much like us to look at extending it further at a later stage. On some occasions and in some circumstances, ambulance staff are the only ones who are called — and they can be the most difficult circumstances.”
“The legislation is there to give the judiciary the opportunity to put people who engage in such vile actions away for a decent length of time. <BR /> <BR />Mr Frew raised the issue of domestic abuse and has indicated that it is not his intention to move that particular amendment because a consultation process is taking place. Nonetheless, it is an incredibly important issue and one that I hope that we revisit in the new mandate to ensure that we give more support to people in situations of domestic abuse. <BR /> <BR />The final issue that I wish to speak about is the attacks on ambulance staff — on our paramedics and support personnel in our ambulances. That is a critical amendment, and I welcome it.”
“When people flagrantly and blatantly abuse, attack and cause harm to animals in a most cruel, senseless and wicked way, the public of Northern Ireland, through the House, are saying that they want custodial sentences and severe custodial sentences for those who engage in severe cruelty. They do not want them to be given a slap on the wrist. I want that message to go out very clearly to our judiciary that that is expected of them. We would not find it acceptable if we passed the legislation and the judiciary gave a slap on the wrist to people like those who have engaged in and got away with some of the obscene acts that we have witnessed over the past number of years. It is very important that we put that marker down.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak on the issues to be addressed in this group. First, I want to deal with the amendments that relate to animal welfare and sentencing. I give a warm welcome to the proposals therein. I would have been keen to have gone a bit further and looked at mandatory sentencing. However, we have been working through it in the Committee for Justice and the Committee for Agriculture and Rural Development — I sit on both — and I accept that the proposals, in and of themselves, should be a considerable help, provided that the judiciary sentence in an appropriate way. <BR /> <BR />The Assembly is sending out a very clear message to the judiciary.”
“Others held back, and, because of the consensus arrangement — the agreement — that we arrived at, we are prepared to tolerate 2021. Therefore, we are sympathetic to Mr Lyttle, but we would have preferred 2016. I wish, however, that all the other parties would get on board with this and seek to drive the situation forward.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. The points that he raises are valid. Back in 1998, some of the big parties then argued for inclusivity, on the basis that we needed to help the Women's Coalition, the PUP, the UDP and other parties get over the line. It is quite remarkable that today Members of some of the same parties are arguing for inclusivity on the basis that it will keep them in a job. The general public expect better of us. It is not about us but about us as servants of the public. We, as servants of the public, have a duty to make this place more efficient, even if it hurts us. I know that some people do not like being the turkeys that are voting for Christmas, but Mr Frew is quite right. The DUP was ready to go for 2016.”
“We all remember that Peter Hain, when he was Secretary of State, introduced industrial rates of 30%, with the intention of driving that up to 100% pre-devolution. Will the Minister give an assurance that it is his intention not to raise industrial rates, as, had Mr Hain's decision stood, it would have decimated our industrial base and ensured that thousands of jobs were lost in Northern Ireland?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Is it not the case that, while individuals will be thinking of putting their name forward for election, proceeding with this legislation and using accelerated passage to do it will give clarity to anybody who wants to stand that they will be standing in a five-seater constituency come the following election? Is it not much better to send out the clear message that that is how it will be, so that there is no uncertainty around the constituencies being six-seaters and all of that? I understand why some people are howling for their seats this afternoon, but is it not much better to send out that clear message?”
“If we blindly look at the circumstances we are putting our universities in at this time without addressing the fundamentals, then we are going to send lots of young people across to England to pay high tuition fees, and we will potentially lose them from Northern Ireland. There is an issue that needs to be challenged and an issue that we all need to get our heads around and address. <BR /> <BR />I congratulate the Minister on giving additional money to Health. I congratulate him on finding additional money for policing on core front-line services, and I commend the Budget to the House. I commend the Minister and, indeed, his predecessor, for the hard work that they have done in bringing it forward.”
“We are working extensively with the local community on addressing educational underachievement, on tackling the problems in early years and going to the heart of those core problems. Those are problems that will exist in 20 years' time if we do not tackle them now. There are children who are being born now who will be destined for unemployment and all sorts of problems if we do not address those issues. That is what we are doing through SIF funding. That is not money that is wasted. That is not money on pet projects. That is money that is well spent and invested in our future. <BR /> <BR />I believe that our universities need to be getting more support than is currently the case, and I think that there are issues that need to be addressed.”
“Last year, we had the accusation of a fantasy Budget, and, today, we have had a series of fantasy Budgets. I am thankful that it is Mr Storey who is the Finance Minister and not the people who have been up and passing comment on the Budget that is being presented to the House, because what they have been saying is the stuff of fantasy. <BR /> <BR />The Ulster Unionists and the SDLP in particular today have produced all sorts of figures without any basis. They have been saying, "We will grab a few pounds from SIF". I know that in my constituency we are about to spend around £2 million of SIF money. That will be money well spent because we have engaged with the local community.”
“I make no apology for refining the proposals that came from Westminster and not adopting them carte blanche, because there are many aspects of welfare that did need refinement and many aspects that would not have made fiscal sense, particularly in Northern Ireland, where we do not have the housing available to have one-bedroom units for so many people. It would have been a false economy to move forward on that.”
“Thank you, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />As the Member well knows, we brought the legislation before this House to deal with it in this House. It was his party that signed a petition of concern, along with Sinn Féin and others, to block it going through. Had the SDLP decided not to sign, there may well not have been enough people for the petition of concern and that would have allowed us to debate the matter and have a majority vote in this House. However, a petition of concern was chosen to block those decisions from taking place. <BR /> <BR />I heard Mr Allister criticise what we did here. I make no apology whatsoever for not introducing the bedroom tax.”
“I will give way, Mr McGlone. <BR /> <BR />— and then complaining because waiting lists go up. Of course waiting lists are going up because you are starving the health service of the money to give it to welfare.”
“If you want to compare us with our neighbours and say, "Oh, how much better the Government are in the Republic of Ireland than they are here", their unemployment is considerably higher than here. Northern Ireland has benefited from growth in employment month after month after month because investment has been made in it. <BR /> <BR />We have come through one of the most difficult periods of politics in Northern Ireland as a result of the stand-off over welfare. When I hear parties like the SDLP criticising, for example, spending on health, I think of when the SDLP was joined with Sinn Féin, the Green Party and others in blocking welfare reform and handing £10 million a month back to the Westminster Government —”
“<BR /> <BR />The Ulster Unionists in particular today, in my view, are only letting themselves down and demonstrating that, when they go to the country in three months' time, they are not fit for governance. They do not know whether they want to be in the Government or not, but they certainly demonstrated today that they are not fit for government. <BR /> <BR />Mr Nesbitt, for example, compares our growth to that of the Republic of Ireland. Does he want us to be in the same circumstances as the Republic of Ireland, where unemployment is almost 10% as against just over 6% in Northern Ireland? That is a reasonable question to ask of the Ulster Unionists.”
“It has been an interesting debate. I have been able to enjoy quite long periods of it. It is interesting from the point of view that what we are seeing around the Chamber from a series of parties is playground politics. The SDLP is in but does not really want to be in, so it is going to oppose from within. The Ulster Unionists were in and then, after four and a half years, decided to go into opposition. Really, that is just a hypocritical stance. <BR /> <BR />In fairness to Mr Allister, he has been in opposition from the start, so we are used to his carping and so forth. At least he has been consistent, I grant him that, albeit he is often wrong. Nonetheless, he is consistent with it.”
“It is interesting to hear lectures on fiscal responsibility from Mr Nesbitt, given that his party held one Department in the Executive before it ran away. That Department managed to run up an overspend of £11·8 million on around £350 million of resource. If that were extrapolated across the entire Budget that we are spending, it would be an overspend of £350 million, which makes the £60 million that he is referring to pale into insignificance. Fiscal responsibility is not an area on which Mr Nesbitt and his party can speak well.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Is it not ironic that in a year when we were told repeatedly by the Minister that there was no funding to spend on research — Scotland for example is putting more money into research, as is the Republic of Ireland — our Department could not find money to put into research? Over the past three years when nearly every other Department was cutting its administration costs, the Department of Agriculture was spending £5 million more on administration.”
“Would he like to remind us which party negotiated the reinvestment and reform initiative (RRI) deal that enabled us to borrow the money for infrastructure projects?”
“— without putting unnecessary risk on the public with the work that the Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service does.”
“There is an opportunity to continue to develop the skills of fire and rescue personnel in delivering those services and the possibilities of closer collaboration between the Fire and Rescue Service and the Ambulance Service. I welcome the fact that those two services are to remain in the one Department because I think that that is appropriate. <BR /> <BR />This is a time for listening, it is a time for reflection, and it is a time for paying attention to what people are saying to see how we can work through these difficult situations. We are living in a period of significant austerity and significant challenges, and we have to find our way through this. We will find a way through it, and we will find a way through it —”
“Our hearts go out to that family and, indeed, to all the other families that have suffered bereavements recently as a result of fire. That is a very difficult task to ask any individual to carry out. We hugely appreciate the work that the Fire and Rescue Service does. We appreciate the work that it has carried out with non-life-threatening situations over the last number of weeks in helping to deal with floods and helping families that were caught in very difficult circumstances. We recognise all of that. <BR /> <BR />We also see that there are massive opportunities for the Fire Service as first responders in picking up some of the work, at an early point, that perhaps other first responders have not been available to get to as quickly.”
“I think that there will be an opportunity for discussions to take place and for us to hear what the Fire Service and the Fire Brigades Union have to say and to make decisions based upon that. <BR /> <BR />I look at quite a number of the circumstances where the Fire Service has gone out, and you look at the serious road traffic collisions that have taken place. The skills that are available nowadays have absolutely changed, even from 10 or 15 years ago. We look at the call-outs in various difficult situations around chemical spills and so forth, and we look at many tragic situations, including the one at the weekend just past where a young woman in Castlewellan lost her life in the most terrible circumstances.”
“It was no secret that there had been a long period of very poor management and leadership of the Fire Service. Many people would have seen the Fire Service as lions led by donkeys. We did have a period of colossally bad leadership in the Fire Service, when the people on the ground were doing absolutely sterling work — excellent work — and the people at the head of it were not doing their jobs well at all. As a consequence, for quite a number of years, the money that was allocated to the Fire Service was not spent and could not be spent, and, consequently, the numbers were reduced. <BR /> <BR />We are now looking at further austerity and further problems with budgeting, and we are hearing a case being made that this will do significant damage to the Fire Service.”
“It is regrettable that we are having this debate. Nonetheless, we will be able to get some things out into the public domain at this stage with respect to the Fire and Rescue Service, and in that sense it will be useful. <BR /> <BR />The Fire and Rescue Service is something that I have had a lot to do with for a considerable period. I have had many meetings with the Fire Brigades Union over the last five years and have had many things highlighted to me about risk to public safety and so forth. I generally find that the Fire Brigades Union is a pretty measured group of people. Consequently, we seek to pay a fair degree of attention to what they have to say. <BR /> <BR />Over the last number of years, certainly there have been considerable cuts to the Fire Service. A lot of that would have related to the management of the Fire Service.”
“Is the inquiry currently operating within budget, and is it expected to be completed within budget? Secondly, in other jurisdictions where redress has been made to victims, it has, more often than not, been the perpetrators rather than the state who have paid it. I assume that anything that is done will look at those who have been the perpetrators of the abuse.”
“As mentioned, the dredging of some of these rivers is absolutely vital to reducing the levels of Lough Neagh. It is unacceptable that this situation continues, and that needs to be addressed urgently. <BR /> <BR />I know farmers who have had livestock, particularly sheep, washed away in the River Lagan basin. What compensation is the Minister looking at making available to those farmers?”
“I welcome the fact that Northern Ireland will be a leader in social innovation. I take it, therefore, that we will be able to provide support for innovation in the social economy sector to ensure the sustainability that many groups require but which public funding will make it a challenge to achieve?”
“However, the people make the decisions, and the people decide who get the seats. If the people decide that Sinn Féin is to have the number of seats that puts them there, we will get on with the job that the people task us to do. I know that Arlene will be tough on occasion, and there will be other occasions when we will seek to drive projects forward together because they are in the wider public interest. I have absolutely no doubt that what we are doing is in the wider public interest, that we will do the job well and that Arlene will give us the leadership to do it. <BR /> <BR />Mr Nesbitt used a musical analogy when he referred to Arlene as holding the baton. I suggest to Mr Nesbitt that, in this instance, he is the drum and should expect a good beating.”
“I know that that will be the case with Arlene, and it should be the case. <BR /> <BR />It is a really positive day for Northern Ireland, in that we have a new First Minister to lead us forward. In looking at the attributes that Arlene has for the office, I find that she is feisty, fiery and passionate but also intelligent and articulate, compassionate and caring. Anybody who takes up a role like this needs to embody all those things. In doing the job that she has to take on, she will be in the coalition that we happen to be in. I got a bit of flak from some people for saying that we "hold our noses" to work with Sinn Féin. That expression was commonly used in the last Westminster Parliament in exchanges between the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats. Sinn Féin is not our first choice as a coalition partner.”
“I congratulate my friend and colleague Arlene Foster on her elevation to the office of First Minister. Back in 2003, I was one of those in Lisburn Orange Hall who welcomed her into the DUP. That night, about 500 of us packed into the hall. It was a tremendous demonstration of leadership on the part of Arlene and Jeffrey Donaldson, in terms of where we were going in Northern Ireland. I suggest to Mr Nesbitt and his party that the die has been cast ever since, and the people have demonstrated that in vote after vote. <BR /> <BR />In congratulating Arlene on her elevation to the post of First Minister, I should say that it is the second most important job that she will ever take on. Her most important job has been, and will remain, that of a wife, mother and daughter. Family will always come first.”
“You have been saying that for some time, Minister, so we would like to see it move forward. Given that my constituency has a series of football clubs at junior level, will the Minister give an assurance that they will have the opportunity to apply for facilities such as changing rooms, stands, pitch improvements and so on?”
“How is the Minister and her Department helping to increase the earnings of individuals who are involved in agriculture through reducing red tape, on her side, and in providing practical support to farmers in a time of food price crises?”
“We will have a new mandate come May, and it is important that we ensure that we do the right thing for the Northern Ireland public. We all want to see more lives saved. Just let us make sure that we get it right.”
“When it is dealing with something of this nature and capacity and will have a massive impact on people who are going through the trauma of losing a loved one, very often in circumstances that they could not have anticipated, we need to be hugely cautious about what we do. It is easy to do something in this Chamber. Walking through one of those Lobbies is not difficult, but when you are sitting in an intensive care unit or another specialist area of a hospital and you are one of those nurses dealing with a family that is in the midst of a grieving process, it is different. You would do well to pay a lot of attention to what they have to say. <BR /> <BR />I urge the Assembly to be extremely cautious about what it decides to do, either today or at a later point. We need to take our time and get this right.”
“I always find it remarkable that there is a much greater willingness among people to receive organs than there is to donate them. I do not understand why people cannot step up to the plate and say, "If I am happy enough to receive someone else's organ if I needed it, I should be happy enough to donate my own." However, it is absolutely critical that all we do is done in a very measured and very thoughtful way and that we do it at the appropriate time. <BR /> <BR />My fear is that this legislation will go to the Committee and that, in the very short space of time that is left of this Assembly, we will have the potential for rushed legislation. Rushed legislation is seldom good legislation.”