Edwin Poots
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I call Mr Eóin Tennyson. Again, this is Mr Tennyson's first opportunity to speak as a private Member, so I remind the House that it is convention that a maiden speech be made without interruption. However, if you choose to express views that provoke an interruption, you are likely to forfeit that protection.”
“Sorry — Ms Armstrong. My apologies. <BR /> <BR />That the Assembly could, in some way, get that money out when it is a UK Government responsibility. The UK Government have distributed it directly in Scotland and Wales, not through the Welsh Parliament and not through the Scottish Parliament.”
“I have not got time; I am sorry. <BR /> <BR />Ursula von der Leyen, who was in the Republic last week, made some of the most ridiculous claims about the British Government, who have supported Ukraine in a way that no other Government in Europe have and who have never engaged in the activity that was suggested by Ursula von der Leyen.”
“Today, a lot of statements have been made but there has not been a lot of fact behind a lot of what has been said. We have Michelle O'Neill, who walked out of her role as Health Minister — not for six months but for three years — and abandoned her position when we had Bengoa and there were all the problems with nursing that led to the str…”
“I need to deal with the issues first. <BR /> <BR />He referred to the Budget that he produced. No party supported that Budget. The Alliance Party did not support it, because it did not cover policing and prisons. Infrastructure did not support it, because it would not allow it to do the basics of what had to be done.”
“We had a circumstance where Sinn Féin repeated, month after month after month, that there were hundreds of millions to give to the public when that did not exist and when, in reality, Minister Murphy was racking up debt that will roll into next year, which will ensure that that will be a difficult financial year.”
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“The Chair and others referred to the call for a strategic review of the fund operation, and others specifically mentioned extension of the fund to other beneficiaries. As I noted when introducing my amendments, the licensing of bookmakers in Northern Ireland is the responsibility of DFC. Currently, online bookmakers are not licensed. As a result, only bookmakers on the high street and those based on the racecourses on race-days pay into the horse racing fund.”
“<BR /> <BR />A number of Members raised the issue of the constraints that we applied when bringing the legislation forward. It has become evident to everyone who has been involved in the process that time would not have allowed us to open up the doors to look at other areas. Whilst there may be justification for other areas to seek to be included, that is a matter for a new Assembly and a new Minister to take forward in the future. It was important to address this issue now, but, had we added other issues to it, that certainly would have created potential for none of it to happen. <BR /> <BR />Many of the issues that have been raised today relate to things outside the direct scope of the short Bill as introduced.”
“Before I turn to the proposed amendments, I will take the opportunity to respond briefly to some of the issues that have been raised. <BR /> <BR />The Committee Chair raised the issue of a private limited company having access to the fund. The 1990 Order does not set any restriction as to the type of operation that may receive support from the fund. However, it does set out how the fund must be used in support of horse racing at the two named locations: Downpatrick and the Maze. Operators of the racecourses are required to provide a business plan to the Department in addition to the annual accounts. As a result, the use of the requirements of the 1990 Order is clearly audited. Therefore, it is the Department's view that there is no issue with the current operators of Down Royal being named as a beneficiary to the fund.”
“Amendment No 2 ensures the early reinstatement of payments from the horse racing fund to both racecourses, as was my aim when I first brought the Bill to the Assembly. Therefore, I call on Members to support the amendments.”
“As the deadline for submitting the necessary paperwork passed on 31 October 2021, the current operators of Down Royal will not be eligible for funding in 2022 without the amendment introduced by clause 4A. The new clause provides for racecourse operators to submit the necessary paperwork relating to 2022 two weeks after Royal Assent. <BR /> <BR />Clause 4A also includes a small number of technical provisions to ensure the smooth operation of the supplementary and transitional provisions. They include an amendment to the deadline for racecourse operators and a provision for my Department to prepare audited accounts relating to the year ending December 2021. That is in recognition that extra time may be needed, depending on when the Bill receives Royal Assent.”
“Members will recall that Down Royal has not been eligible to do so before the Bill's enactment, as the current operators are not named in the legislation. While Downpatrick has already submitted the necessary paperwork relating to 2021, it has not been eligible for support either, owing to the subsidy control rules. As a result of new clause 4A, once Down Royal has submitted its statement relating to 2021, both racecourses will be able to claim for 2021 expenditure. I am aware that the AERA Committee raised the issue of the payments for spend incurred by the racecourses in the period before the Bill is enacted, so I know that that will be welcomed by its members. <BR /> <BR />The second part of the new clause introduced by the amendment relates to payments from the fund in 2022.”
“The amendment removes the definition of the word "modify", which is used only in article 11 of the 1990 Order. The article is omitted by clause 3 of the Bill, so the definition is redundant. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 2 is more substantial. It introduces a new clause to the Bill, clause 4A, which is titled "Transitional and supplementary provision". However, it remains in keeping with the Bill's overall aims to reinstate payments from the fund as quickly as possible. There are two parts to the new clause. First, it allows for payments to be made from the horse racing fund for eligible expenditure incurred by racecourses in 2021. It does that by enabling Down Royal to submit a statement of expenditure for 2021 after the Bill receives Royal Assent.”
“That is because providing support to one racecourse when it is not possible to support the other would potentially create unfair competition in the market. Therefore, in amending the 1990 Order to name the new operators at Down Royal as beneficiaries of the fund, the Bill will allow for full reinstatement of payments from the fund to both racecourses. That is the main aim of the Bill. By keeping that narrow focus, I seek to ensure that the Bill is enacted in the current mandate, which will allow for the reinstatement of payments to the two racecourses as early as possible. <BR /> <BR />I turn now to the amendments that I have tabled. Amendment No 1 is a minor technical amendment to clause 3. It is simply a tidy-up of the Bill and its impact on existing legislation.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will discuss the amendments in detail in a moment, but, first, I will remind the Assembly why this short Bill is before us. The Horse Racing (Northern Ireland) Order 1990 is the legal basis for the horse racing fund in Northern Ireland. The fund is made up of a levy collected from licensed bookmakers in Northern Ireland and was set up to provide financial support for horse racing at the two Northern Ireland racecourses at Downpatrick and Down Royal. However, since 2019, the new operator of Down Royal has been unable to access the fund, as it is not specifically named in the 1990 Order. Furthermore, as a consequence of my Department's assessment of subsidy control rules, payments to Downpatrick have also been suspended.”
“As Members will be aware, DFC's gambling licensing rules do not currently regulate online gambling. Bookmakers who are licensed by DFC pay into the horse racing fund, and I understand that DFC is considering the licensing of remote bookmakers, albeit any review will not take place until the next mandate. It would therefore not be appropriate to make major changes to the legislation governing the fund until DFC has completed its review of licensing. <BR /> <BR />My officials have shared the Committee's recommendation with their counterparts in DFC, and I have asked that my officials work with DFC on the issues of common interest in reviewing the fund. I note that the Communities Minister has asked the same of her officials in undertaking a wider review of gambling legislation.”
“The Committee recommends that my Department set out a timetable for such a strategic review, which would consider who is eligible for support under the fund, whether the amount of the levy is appropriate and where responsibility for the fund best sits. The need for the strategic review of the operation of the fund was raised at Second Reading. At that point, I acknowledged that a fundamental review was necessary, but, owing to the complexity of the issues involved, it needed to be completed over a longer time frame. I am therefore happy to accept the Committee's recommendation and can confirm that the initial scoping work is under way. <BR /> <BR />The Committee also recommended that the Department for Communities set out any long-term plans to review legislation on gambling activities, including those that relate to online gambling.”
“Before I speak on the amendments, I thank the Chairperson and members of the Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee for their detailed and constructive scrutiny of the Bill and its aims thus far. I also thank the Office of Legislative Counsel (OLC), legal advisers and officials in my Department for their work in getting the Bill to this key stage. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the publication of the AERA Committee's report on the Bill, which, as well as confirming the Committee's support, includes recommendations on the need for a strategic review of the operation of the horse racing fund.”
“I beg to introduce the Animal Welfare (Service Animals) Bill [NIA 45/17-22], which is a Bill to amend the Welfare of Animals Act (Northern Ireland) 2011 in relation to service animals.”
“If we can ensure that everybody, irrespective of background or class, faith, creed or whatever, gets a fair crack of the whip, that would be a great legacy for Austin Currie and for other politicians of that generation.”
“Many may wish to portray a system that advantaged one group of people over another. However, the group that my father came from was hugely disadvantaged. In representing the many who lived in two-up two-down houses, where cockroaches crawled up the walls of outside toilets, it made no difference to Austin Currie and my father where people came from. Their representation was irrespective of whether they lived on the Shankill Road, the Falls Road or anywhere else. <BR /> <BR />We appreciate that much has been done over the years to ensure that the value of representing ordinary working people has come to the fore and should be at the fore of everything that we do.”
“Austin Currie was a remarkable politician. He was, first and foremost, a very able politician, as demonstrated by the fact that he was a Minister in both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. You had only to listen to Austin Currie on the radio to know that he was an articulate politician. He spoke with great clarity and expressed his position remarkably well. He was also very affable. In spite of the fact that my father and Austin Currie were at opposite ends of the spectrum on many issues, they had a good relationship outside the Chamber. The debates that took place in the 1973 Assembly were hostile and hard-hitting. Beyond the Chamber, however, Austin Currie was an affable man. <BR /> <BR />Austin Currie and my father came from similar backgrounds.”
“The reintroduction of species will be dealt with in the biodiversity strategy. The green growth strategy is about ensuring that we take the right steps environmentally to address a range of issues and, at the same time, allow our economy to grow. Some people might think that you cannot do both. I am absolutely confident that not only can we do both but we will do both because we have innovative people out there who are working right across our country doing wonderful things. The more that we can hook up and connect to those people and facilitate and assist them in what they are doing, the more quickly we will get the necessary turnaround and change that the Member desires.”
“Most of that will be capital. Much of it will create opportunities and jobs and, at the same time, tackle significant environmental problems here. That is the reality. That is why I have tried to spell out for people that this does not come without pain and investment. It will also require significant investment from the private sector and the wider public. So, when we get up and make fine statements, we need to recognise that there is no cheap or easy way to deliver on those fine statements.”
“Over the next five years, my Department will bid for somewhere in the region of £0·75 billion for investment.”
“Probably no one in the 1980s anticipated the opportunities that would come through tech, and therefore we need to grasp the opportunities. Irrespective of what Governments think, the big businesses in the world will want to acquire only the products that come from environmentally responsible producers. Therefore, those who want to lag behind will do themselves out of opportunities and will not have a future because large companies will not want to do business with them.”
“We need to look at every opportunity. I agree with the Member that we should take every advantage that exists for us. Northern Ireland was at the forefront of the industrial revolution, and Belfast was a hub. This place was thriving 120 years ago at the turn of the 20th century, and we can be a thriving hub once again through green technologies. Some people may deride that and say that it is wishful thinking. I named two companies — Wrightbus and Artemis — and there are lots more out there, so we should not focus entirely on two. However, I look at what they are doing and see that Artemis is projecting a £6 billion turnover for this project over the next 30 years and has received significant investment to achieve that. <BR /> <BR />The opportunities that exist are vast.”
“That will help to sustain an economy that already exists here, largely the agricultural economy, and to ensure that we have renewable energy. I hear people say, "Why not continue to burn cheap fossil fuels?". I am clear that we are not in control of whether they are cheap: Vladimir Putin and the sheikhs in Saudi Arabia and other places are in control of that. I would much prefer to have renewable energy that is produced in Northern Ireland, the cost of which we will know every year and will not be particularly variable. That will mean that we can give homes and people across Northern Ireland energy security, because the energy is produced here. We will also be able to give them security in the cost, because the adjustments will be modest, single-digit percentage changes as opposed to the massive changes that we have seen this winter.”
“That is an issue for another Minister to deliver; I believe that that is the Minister for Communities. It demonstrates the importance of cross-departmental working. The Department of Finance, for example, is responsible for building regulations. The Department for Communities is responsible for housing. The Department for the Economy is responsible for energy, and we, of course, have an important role in all of this. The combination of all of those Departments working closely together will deliver the outcomes that the Member wants. <BR /> <BR />She is absolutely right: as I indicated, households account for 16% of emissions. We can get quick wins in that regard. Ultimately, my vision is to heat people's homes and run vehicles with hydrogen and biomethane.”
“Applications will come in and will need to go through all of the processes to enable that to happen. On producing that renewable energy, we will electrolyse it and turn it into hydrogen, which we can run our buses, lorries and tractors on. I hope that, in future, we will run our cars on it. That is much more reliable and environmentally friendly than extracting lithium, cobalt and all sorts of minerals from Africa, using dodgy techniques in some places to do so. Northern Ireland is uniquely placed to do that. Our gas pipe network is capable of carrying hydrogen because it is a plastic network as opposed to being metal. We can provide biomethane to people's homes. We can switch from using fossil fuels to renewable fuels over a reasonable period, but that adjustment needs to start soon.”
“I pressed at COP26 the need for us to have green bank opportunities so that people who want to install solar panels but struggle to borrow money, for example, to do it will have the ability to do that. It pays itself back in about five years. The landowners who want to introduce further wind energy should be able to find that support and have the ability to do that without having to rely on large companies to come in and do it. <BR /> <BR />Of course, we need to develop offshore wind energy. That will be controversial. Some people will not like it, but, if we are to face the challenge of having renewable energy instead of using fossil fuels, it is absolutely necessary. We have to do it. That is not to say that we will just cover all of Northern Ireland's coastline with wind turbines.”
“The Member represents a rural community. The energy strategy is an important element of the work that is being done by the Department for the Economy. As I indicated, the strategy accounts for around 60% of emissions, so it is important that the Department gets that energy strategy right. The Department is close to the end of it. Hopefully, in the near future, you will be able to question the Minister directly on his intentions. <BR /> <BR />Northern Ireland is uniquely placed to benefit from hydrogen. We have, I think, the capacity for over 50% renewables now, but we are not utilising all of that capacity because we do not have the ability to do that or to store it. How can we push that up?”
“Well, as one of the Departments that probably have investment in science and research that is considerably higher than 0·8% — I will get the Member the figure — realistically, we can move forward on a really positive future for Northern Ireland only if we invest in research and development. With science, innovation and technology, we will develop answers to address the problems that we face. It is incumbent on us to invest in science, innovation and technology if we are to achieve that faster. I agree with the Member that we need to invest in all of the things he mentioned, as well as in research and development. Without doing that, we will quickly fall behind and will be leaning on others to do that work. I am much keener that AFBI, for example, sells its research to other parts of the world, having delivered for Northern Ireland.”
“That will enable us, on one hand, to sustain an industry and, on the other, to do that in an environmentally friendly way. That will take time, investment and an awful lot of common sense. I appeal to the House to demonstrate to the wider public in Northern Ireland that there is a little of that here.”
“It is clear to us that efficiency is important, but we are looking at how we can add other things, such as seaweed, to feed to ensure that we drive methane down further. <BR /> <BR />Research is also being done at the Agri-Food and Biosciences Institute (AFBI), whereby the cows have a hood applied to their nose so that, when they take the grass into the rumen and regurgitate it and burp, the gas is caught in the hood and filtered out. That takes out over half of the methane that is burped. At the other side, we capture the slurry and anaerobically digest it. <BR /> <BR />You can see where I am coming from: we can build a picture where we are not removing small percentages of methane from agri-food but removing substantial amounts of greenhouse gases and methane from the production of agri-food.”
“Fertiliser also accounts for just short of 10%. If we anaerobically digest more materials and capture the methane that is one element of that, we will be able to use that digestate more appropriately on our land. We will, perhaps, need to separate it, but we can use it more appropriately, and that will reduce the amount of fertiliser that we need. You can make a significant reduction there, particularly by using less equipment to spread it. <BR /> <BR />Fifty-seven percent of the emissions come from the animals. By working with qualitative research in recent years — for example, there has already been significant success with reducing crude protein — we now produce two thirds of the carbon emissions from dairy products that were previously produced. There has been significant success there.”
“There is that 10%. You can significantly tackle that.”
“Just short of 10% of greenhouse gas emissions from farms comes from machinery. As we work with companies such as JCB, which is totally committed to hydrogen, we will see opportunities to move to vehicles that are powered mainly by hydrogen. Farmers will not be able to afford to buy new vehicles straight away, but, given the contracting that takes place, the shift will happen relatively quickly for the vast majority of the work that is done on farms.”
“Do you just not use it, or do you populate it with animals, which will produce proteins that people will be able to eat in order to sustain themselves? <BR /> <BR />The logical outcome to all that is that we need to ensure that we can continue producing good food in Northern Ireland for a growing population in the world so that we can help to ensure that we feed that population for generations to come while doing so in as environmentally friendly a way as possible.”
“We need a just transition for people who produce beef. <BR /> <BR />I was with Al Gore on Saturday. I am sure lots of people think that Al Gore has done tremendous things on the environment, so they will give cognisance to what he has to say. If they do not listen to me, they may listen to him. He says that one of the greatest storages of carbon, second only to forests, is soil. I therefore posed this question to the former vice president: what is the best thing to grow on that soil? If we grow crops, we are continually ploughing and tilling the soil, which releases carbon, but growing grass captures carbon. The consequence of capturing that carbon provides sequestration. What do you then do with the grass?”
“I have to make a wee confession to the Member. While in the early part of this millennium his party's former president was hugging trees, I was planting them. We will deal with conversions in due course. <BR /> <BR />The Member is right, however: we need a just transition. We need to find a means of providing a just transition for farmers who live close to peatlands and who will, therefore, be challenged. We need to find a just transition for people who own chicken and other poultry units. To me, that is about capturing the ammonia the units produce and reutilising it. It is not about closing down poultry houses. They are very efficient ways of producing proteins that humans consume. We need a just transition for people who are dairy farming so that they can not only continue to produce milk but be supported to capture methane.”
“Therefore, number one, we need to take more stuff out of that bin and, number two, the material that goes into the bin — the residue — needs to be dealt with in a better way than going to landfill. <BR /> <BR />We need to make that decision. Whatever it happens to be and whether it is an incinerator at Hightown or something else, we need to set out deliverables, and those things need to happen in this decade. If we do not do it within this decade, there will be no point talking about the environment and saying that we want to protect it, because we will be failing it.”
“Again, that is a matter for the Infrastructure Minister. It is great that not all of the controversial decisions rest with me and that somebody else has to make some. I do not envy the Infrastructure Minister in dealing with those issues, but they need to be dealt with. <BR /> <BR />The truth is that we put all of this stuff in a bin, the lorry pulls up in the morning and away it goes. That is it gone; wonderful. However, what is our responsibility? We do our recycling. We have brown bins and green bins, and we have this other material that goes into another bin. What do people think happens with that? It currently goes to landfill, it is producing methane and it is not the best way to deal with that waste. We know that.”
“If we cannot find a way to do both at one time, we are heading for disaster. <BR /> <BR />There is no point in replacing one disaster with another. If we cannot feed the world, and if we simply export that greenhouse gas production to another part of the world, and then import it and say, "Look at what wonderful people we are", you are not wonderful people; you are traitors to the people whom you are here to serve. As a Member who represents a rural constituency, I am surprised at just how little the Member appears to care for that rural constituency: for the sheep farmers in the glens of Antrim and the farmers around Dunloy, Loughguile and all those places. What he is proposing will give those people a real hammering and take away their livelihoods.”
“Probably in the very near future, I will share with people what the Climate Change Committee is anticipating will need to happen to achieve the 82% target and, indeed, the 100% target. The Member can then explain to the public, particularly the rural community, why he thinks that the 82% target should not be there. I think that it should be there and that we need to identify means of dealing with the problem, not closing down the rural economy. It may be Sinn Féin's policy to destroy the rural economy. It is not mine, and it is not one that I will support. The Member may want to get a quick headline, and he and his party may want to attach themselves to a wonderful headline to show that they are wonderful people. However, we have a world to feed and an environment to look after.”
“My bid, which is almost complete, will probably be in the region of, or greater than, what the Member has just described, and it will be for Northern Ireland alone. It is not something that we view as requiring modest amounts to deal with. We have a major problem, and we need to address it. The Scots, for example, are investing some £250 million in peatlands. I think that their peatlands are probably more degraded than ours, however, we have a significant challenge in ensuring that our peatlands come up to the standard that we would like. We have set a period to do that, and there will be a funding envelope to go along with that.”
“I want us to tick the gold-star box for all those things. When supermarkets, in the UK or elsewhere, look at our produce, I want them to say, "That is what our customer wants, and we will pay a premium for that product, because it is produced to the standards that we require". <BR /> <BR />Environmentally, we have a bit of work to do to get to the gold-star standard. In many other aspects, we are there, and we can get to that environmental gold-star standard relatively quickly. That will keep us ahead of the market.”
“We have been doing a considerable amount of work with our science division. We are also working closely with the universities and the agri-food sector to create a diamond in that sector. That diamond is about ensuring that we are involved not only in qualitative food production but in getting qualitative environmental results. <BR /> <BR />In Northern Ireland, and, I have to say, in the Republic of Ireland, we produce really good food. When we go to market our product, and particularly when deals are done with the southern hemisphere — people are concerned about those deals, and rightly so — I want us to be competing not on the basis of selling a commodity but on the basis of selling produce that has provenance and traceability, that demonstrates good animal welfare, that is good for health and that meets good environmental standards.”
“We need to have systems in place to garner all those materials that are currently seen as waste, whether methane, phosphates or nitrates, and turn them into opportunities. We need to look at a lot of the material that currently goes into our black bin and view it no longer as waste but as an opportunity to produce energy.”
“The answers to all the questions about the environment and green growth lie in all of us working together and all Departments working together. I welcome the fact that there is Executive backing for the strategy. <BR /> <BR />I will give you an example of something that happened in my constituency some time ago. There was an anaerobic digester that produced methane, but it also produced hot water as a result. It offered that hot water to a local government facility, which turned it down, as it said that it could get hot water cheaper from elsewhere. I do not believe that it was getting it cheaper, but, even if it was, it was obtaining that hot water through the burning of fossil fuels. That is not a way forward.”
“That is for the Department for Communities to bring forward.”
“The Member asks a valid question. The commitment on the government estate has been made in the green growth strategy, and that is an Executive position, not a DAERA position. Therefore, it is for each Department to identify how best to do that in its area. The Department of Finance is responsible for the estate, and each Department has its own vehicles. Those will have to be changed to a new type of vehicle. That will provide particular challenges for Justice, Health and some other Departments, but we will get there. <BR /> <BR />The Member mentions housing. We need a significant investment in insulating our homes so that we require less fuel of any kind and have more ambient heat.”
“Many hundreds of millions of pounds need to be invested over the next number of years to make this happen. Therefore, if the Executive and the Assembly are for real, this Department will need to receive considerable finances to make these things happen.”
“I have, and, as recently as yesterday, we were discussing those issues. Most of our bids will be capital-related. They will be bids that, in conjunction with the private sector, will introduce significant spend into the local economy and ensure that we start to realistically tackle these things. For example, we talk about the methane on farms. Instead of that methane being lost to the environment, it would be much better to capture it and use it for gas to heat people's homes, particularly rural homes. Sixteen per cent of our emissions come from households, so moving from natural gas boilers, oil boilers and coal fires to using methane and hydrogen will help us to tackle that 16% and, at the same time, help us to tackle the 27% that comes from farming.”
“I hope that others will join me in recognising those challenges and will assist me — I do not have all the answers — in finding a way to deliver the best possible outcome. It may not be one that will be universally acceptable to everybody, but we need to find the best possible outcome for as many people as possible.”
“The future agriculture policy that we are seeking to establish will recognise that we need to do things differently. Wetting peatlands, for example, will have a consequence. How do we deal with that consequence? Peatlands are critical to all the issues around carbon, because many of them, instead of being carbon stores, are carbon emitters, and we have to deal with that, which will have an impact on those who farm in those areas. Therefore, there is a course of work to do, but it will be tricky and difficult. We have to engage with farmers and deliver a means whereby they can still make a living off the land but, at the same time, we can deal with those carbon emissions. I recognise the challenges.”