Edwin Poots
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I call Mr Eóin Tennyson. Again, this is Mr Tennyson's first opportunity to speak as a private Member, so I remind the House that it is convention that a maiden speech be made without interruption. However, if you choose to express views that provoke an interruption, you are likely to forfeit that protection.”
“Sorry — Ms Armstrong. My apologies. <BR /> <BR />That the Assembly could, in some way, get that money out when it is a UK Government responsibility. The UK Government have distributed it directly in Scotland and Wales, not through the Welsh Parliament and not through the Scottish Parliament.”
“I have not got time; I am sorry. <BR /> <BR />Ursula von der Leyen, who was in the Republic last week, made some of the most ridiculous claims about the British Government, who have supported Ukraine in a way that no other Government in Europe have and who have never engaged in the activity that was suggested by Ursula von der Leyen.”
“Today, a lot of statements have been made but there has not been a lot of fact behind a lot of what has been said. We have Michelle O'Neill, who walked out of her role as Health Minister — not for six months but for three years — and abandoned her position when we had Bengoa and there were all the problems with nursing that led to the str…”
“I need to deal with the issues first. <BR /> <BR />He referred to the Budget that he produced. No party supported that Budget. The Alliance Party did not support it, because it did not cover policing and prisons. Infrastructure did not support it, because it would not allow it to do the basics of what had to be done.”
“We had a circumstance where Sinn Féin repeated, month after month after month, that there were hundreds of millions to give to the public when that did not exist and when, in reality, Minister Murphy was racking up debt that will roll into next year, which will ensure that that will be a difficult financial year.”
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“Over 20% of our people were unemployed, and needing workers is a much better problem to have to deal with than needing jobs. While there has been a general tightening in the labour market and shortages in a number of sectors, online job adverts in Northern Ireland were at an all-time high in August 2021, 52% above the normal monthly tally. The demand can be seen across the whole economy, and, combined with our relatively low unemployment rate, we will undoubtedly witness friction in the labour market for some time. <BR /> <BR />The COVID pandemic, along with changes to the UK's immigration policy, has impacted on almost all parts of our economy and manifested itself in various forms, including the labour shortages that we face.”
“The Minister for the Economy and I are acutely aware of the labour shortages facing the agri-food and haulage sectors. <BR /> <BR />The debate has been remarkable, given what the parties that are doing most of the complaining have had to say previously. Before Brexit happened, we had all the predictions of great doom on the way: the economy would go into free fall, and unemployment would rise rapidly. Instead, the UK's economy is the fastest-growing of any region in Europe. With a fast-growing economy and, indeed, less migration taking place, which is a consequence of the open door that existed previously in the European Union, we face some issues with labour. That is not a really bad position to be in. As a young person growing up in the 1980s, I recall the grinding unemployment that existed.”
“I thank the Member for the question. I have engaged with Wrightbus and look forward to seeing hydrogen used in not just our buses but our tractors, diggers and lorries. Hydrogen will eventually be a much better solution than electric cars; I have to be honest about that. We import a lot of materials that are mined in Africa in circumstances that may not be the most suitable. Hydrogen, however, is a true renewable. <BR /> <BR />I will continue to work with anybody who comes forward — I will meet people next week and the following week about hydrogen — and with the Department for the Economy in driving this forward. I am working to try to draw down some of the emissions trading scheme money that has gone to Europe over the years, and to invest it in hydrogen, in reducing carbon, in our planet's future and in this country's future.”
“That methane, mixed with hydrogen, can go into our pipes, and Firmus Energy and Phoenix Natural Gas are keen to use it. We will be able to feed and heat our homes with it. That makes sense for all of us in Northern Ireland, because we will have fuel security and — pretty much — food security, and we will ensure that we have it at a consistent price rather than being subject to the variations of world gas and oil prices.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Northern Ireland can lead the hydrogen revolution that is needed to ensure that we have renewable energy sources that are close to home, sustainable and future-proofed. My Department works to encourage such opportunities. Having the capacity to produce 45% of our energy from renewable sources gives us tremendous opportunities to utilise that energy for hydrogen production. That energy is not generated at night because the wind turbines are switched off then. Utilising them at night to produce hydrogen would be using, at no extra expense, a resource that already exists. That is entirely logical. <BR /> <BR />Taking farms down the route of anaerobic digestion — I would press to do that, in the main, from slurry — will lead to our being in the position to extract methane.”
“I am loathe to say what the position is, because I have not had it printed out and clarified. The Infrastructure Minister may be best placed to respond to that question, but I will seek to identify the position. I will raise with the Minister the Member's question about our following suit and doing something similar.”
“No, I have not, but I would support its removal. People need to have driven a vehicle for a period and to have had a bit of experience on the roads before they drive with a trailer. Most mature adults will, however, be capable of driving with a trailer.”
“Recycling rates have gone down slightly. That is unfortunate, but we hope to turn that around and arrest it. We continue to give considerable support to councils for recycling. We have a package set aside of £23 million for councils to install new bins and collection systems that will ensure higher levels of recycling. I was in County Fermanagh last week at Drummee, which is claiming a lot more materials. In the first year, even with COVID, it claimed around 600 tons of materials that went away from landfill and were recycled. That is a saving of £60,000 for the people in the Fermanagh and Omagh District Council area. That work will continue in order to ensure that we drive up recycling and that our councils are motivated to do it.”
“The support that has been given to councils has been substantial; in particular, financial support for waste management and through funding has been very substantial. I do not have the figures on me at the moment, but the support that has been provided through my Department to councils runs into tens of millions of pounds. I should add that, in the last year, most councils have been able to have zero or very low rate increases because they found themselves in a better financial position. Much of that was to do with the support that they received from central government.”
“A lot depends on the House and how it wishes to cooperate. Obviously, I am keen to get a bespoke policy that may not suit every person but encompasses as many people as possible in a system that works for them. I will need the assistance of the Committee and, indeed, the House to deliver that. We should all work towards that, because we have a system that has been there for a while. Is it a bad system? No. Is it a system that can be bettered? Yes, so let us get a better system.”
“A lot of the entitlements were based on farming activity between 2003-05 or 2005-07; it was in and around that period. We will probably have a new policy in 2022-23. Entitlements should be based on activity now, not on something that happened 18 to 20 years ago.”
“That will involve us not just maintaining food production at its current levels but probably increasing it, capturing a lot of the nutrients that come from it and using those nutrients for environmental purposes.”
“There is the capture of emissions and the reduction of emissions. In the capture of emissions, we have our peatlands, our forests and our grasslands. We are doing work through the Agri-Food and Biosciences Institute (AFBI) and Teagasc on our grasslands to identify what capture takes place there, particularly with older grasses and the roots as they go further into the soil, and how much carbon they take from the atmosphere. <BR /> <BR />Many opportunities exist for carbon reduction. Sixteen per cent of our carbon production comes from households, and 27% comes from agriculture. We can do a lot to capture the emissions that go into the environment from agriculture and translate them into renewable gas to go into people's homes, leading to a win-win situation.”
“Extensive work is being done on that. Peatland strategy is one area that we are looking at. There are two issues around our peatlands, which are not in as good a condition as they should be. When I say that, our peatlands are in a better condition than those in other parts of Ireland and, indeed, Scotland and other parts of the UK. We need to improve our peatlands to get them to the optimum status. The two things are the wetting of them and reducing the nitrogen deposition that takes place. <BR /> <BR />On the nitrogen deposition, we had hoped to reduce the amount of ammonia in the environment by around 25%, indeed by around 35% where the peatlands are stressed. Moving to a new payment system will assist us in working with the farming community in areas around peatlands in wetting them.”
“I would be looking to the PGI British status as well, to be perfectly honest, because I want to maximise the opportunities for Northern Ireland beef producers. If you were a beef farmer in the Irish Republic now, you would be envious of the prices that beef farmers in Northern Ireland receive for their beef, which have significantly uplifted since we left the European Union, I might add. The main market for our beef is, of course, the United Kingdom, so we are in a reasonably good position in terms of beef sales. However, I want to have us in the best position possible across the world, so any marketing opportunity that becomes available to me is one that I would be keen to take up.”
“There was work done on that. We had requested that that would be the case, so it was a bit disappointing when the Irish Government proceeded on their own. Subsequent to that, we have been pressing for our inclusion. There was one issue that, they believed, we were behind on. It is something that, we believe, can be easily caught up. The EU will probably accept that as well.”
“Rather than spending scarce resources on checking goods that will, in all probability, never come near the EU single market and with no material risk if they should, it would be preferable that our vets focus on the real priorities facing the Northern Ireland agri-food industry, on animal welfare and on matters of concern to the population.”
“The use of scarce veterinary resources to oversee intra-UK trade at Northern Ireland points of entry is unacceptable and unnecessary, just as the Northern Ireland protocol, in its current form, is unacceptable, given the absence of material risk to the European Union's single market as, in so many respects, the standards in the UK's single market equal, if not exceed, those in many parts of the European Union. The protocol is already unworkable and is becoming unsuitable as the number of checks rise to a possible 25,000 per week under its full and rigorous implementation.”
“Officials are also investigating contracting the supply of vets with providers of veterinary services, with the assistance of the Department of Finance’s construction and procurement division. <BR /> <BR />In the meantime, my priority is to ensure that we have sufficient vets to carry out the vital work in our meat processing plants, in field offices delivering TB eradication, to support the agri-food industry and to assure the welfare of animals.”
“There is currently a shortage of vets in my Department and, more widely, in the private and public sectors across the United Kingdom. There is also an increasing acceptance that Northern Ireland requires a more assured long-term supply of veterinarians than is available from historical sources. There are a number of options for achieving that, which merit further exploration. I have, therefore, commissioned a formal assessment of the need for vets in Northern Ireland and an independent analysis of the various options for meeting that need. <BR /> <BR />In the case of my Department’s veterinary requirements, my officials are exploring all available avenues, including taking on more permanent veterinary staff, through Northern Ireland Civil Service (NICS) recruitment, and temporary vets, through the NICS agency framework.”
“My vets have been engaging extensively on that issue. We were hopeful of a resolution by now. A resolution for veterinary issues is on the table; it is now up to politicians to decide to go with that. However, the impact is that 97% of the previous imports are not happening. We have only 3% of the sheep coming in that we had before the protocol. That is having a severe impact on areas, such as the glens of Antrim and the Sperrins, that rely heavily on imports of high-quality Scottish, blackface sheep. They also sell their high-quality blackface sheep to farmers in Scotland. Given the numbers that are involved, it is important for that exchange of bloodlines to take place to ensure that the quality that has been established can be maintained.”
“It is not logical to put a barrier between you and the place where 65% of your imports come from. As for the Members on the other side of the House, who called for the protocol and its rigorous implementation, I can understand that they feel a little foolish at this point.”
“I commend the fella — Mr McGlone, I should say — on getting the name right today. Yesterday, I think he called him "some fella". I commend him. It is always good to be respectful and courteous about people even when you disagree with their point of view. <BR /> <BR />I have engaged with Lord Frost on a number of occasions. I hope that Lord Frost has taken on board the issues that I have raised with him and that he will make those recommendations that will lead us to a much better circumstance than we are currently in. The Command Paper was a significant demonstration that the UK Government are getting the arguments that the DUP, in the main — not alone, but in the main — is putting on the table. I trust that the Command Paper will be followed through into actions that will lead us to a circumstance where we do not have trade barriers.”
“We have animals that have had the same tag from birth, and the protocol demands that tags are removed in the name of protecting the single market. I have never heard of anything so ridiculous.”
“Again, the Member seems to whitewash actual fact. The protocol was to have been about protecting the single market, so perhaps the Member, when he is on his feet and has the opportunity — he will not have the opportunity now — can enlighten us as to what danger is caused to the European Union single market for a breeder to take a bull or a heifer to Scotland to sell and, if it does not sell, to bring it back home again and sell it in the Northern Ireland market. Maybe the Member, who is Chair of the Agriculture Committee, is not aware of this, but our animals are tagged at birth, and they are followed right through. As a result of the protocol, we now have a situation where animals coming from Britain to Northern Ireland have their tags removed, which is absolutely ridiculous.”
“We will not win this battle by going on the streets, by violence or by anything else. We will win this battle by good politics, and that is what I have engaged in: good politics. If we win this battle, it will be through qualitative politics, not through people shouting and carping from the sidelines.”
“I remind the Member that this is Westminster policy, not Northern Ireland Executive policy. This is Westminster policy that has been imposed on Northern Ireland, and the Member knows that very well because he tested it in court, where he lost his case.”
“The Member talks about folly, and, for quite a number of years, he has decried the House and the Northern Ireland Executive. If we do away with the House and the Northern Ireland Executive, we then take our executive authority from Westminster.”
“I cannot see how it is the best of both worlds. I see how we could have the best of both worlds, but this is not it, it cannot be it and it will not be it. Therefore, I encourage colleagues from the other side of the House to recognise that and to start to work in the best interests of the people of Northern Ireland, irrespective of their views on Brexit. We are now in the circumstance that we are in today. The protocol applies, and it is causing misery to this sector and to a whole series of other sectors.”
“I continue to make representations to the EU Commission and to the UK Government, urging them to find long-term, sensible solutions that take into account the actual biosecurity risk to the EU single market, and I continue to make representations on the position of Northern Ireland as an integral part of the UK. I also recently took the opportunity to stress once again the difficulties that the Northern Ireland protocol is having on our livestock breeding sector when I met George Eustice and Lord Frost at the Balmoral show. My officials continue to engage with EU officials and with their counterparts in DEFRA to seek a solution.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am completely opposed to any additional requirements for the re-entry of livestock to Northern Ireland from Great Britain under the Northern Ireland protocol and firmly believe that they place our farmers and breeders, including pedigree breeders, in a disadvantaged position while negatively affecting their livelihood and business. For that reason, I have already written on a number of occasions to Maroš Šefcovic, the vice president of the European Union, and to George Eustice, Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, to highlight the burden that the new requirements impose on our local industry.”
“<BR /> <BR />Since 1 January 2021, additional animal health requirements, as prescribed by European Union legislation in the protocol, have been applicable to Northern Ireland livestock returning to Northern Ireland following a temporary movement to Great Britain. Since then, it appears that cattle movements for breeding and production purposes from Great Britain to Northern Ireland from January to September have decreased by about a third when compared with 2020. That may well be related to the new animal health requirements, such as the residency period.”
“I reiterate that the protocol is unacceptable and unworkable, as was recognised in the House yesterday, even by those who previously wanted rigorous implementation of it. <BR /> <BR />The movement of pedigree cattle is yet another example of how the protocol disadvantages Northern Ireland farmers. The movement of livestock, including pedigree cattle, from Northern Ireland to Great Britain for agricultural shows, sales or exhibitions is a long-standing tradition for local farmers and breeders, and it provides an opportunity to access markets and demonstrate the quality of our specimens and bloodlines, which are internationally recognised as excellent.”
“That needs further thought. The register should certainly be available to dog wardens and to people who look after the well-being of animals and monitor compliance. Therefore, the register should be available to veterinary services, dog wardens, police and other bodies. Whether it is made totally available to the public will not be in my hands. That will be a consideration in discussion with the Department of Justice. However, I see merit in it.”
“I recognise that the movements of people who engage in animal cruelty can be very fluid. Establishing a register in the first instance would be very positive, and the ability to share that register with others would also be a positive move, whether on this island or throughout the entirety of these islands.”
“We need to get it over the first hurdle, and that is what we can do here. I have no problem whatsoever in sharing information with colleagues in any of the jurisdictions that the Member mentioned. It makes logical sense. Mr Newton has a private Member's Bill that would outlaw large-scale puppy farms and the production of animals purely for profit. I support that legislation, and I hope that the Assembly will support it and facilitate its delivery. The Bill will go through the House over the next number of months, and it is one of the private Member's Bills that, in my mind, stands out in its importance and in what it can deliver. It will leave a good mark for this Assembly mandate as it comes to a close.”
“The issue was raised with me earlier in the mandate, and I have been prepared to move forward on it, but we have not yet been able to do so. In the Department of Justice, there appear to be considerable issues and concerns about how we can handle the data and engage in compliance with existing procedures. I think that we can overcome all those things and move forward. I hope that, before we get to the end of this mandate, the Department of Justice will be in a position to give the new Minister room to move this forward in conjunction with a future AERA Minister.”
“It will not be in the lifetime of this Assembly, but I believe that we will get there nonetheless. I believe that the public want and desire an animal cruelty register, as I do this House.”
“We have had correspondence. We have also had verbal communication in meetings on the issue. It is an important issue that we should progress and move forward. <BR /> <BR />I do not quite get all the issues around the data. Most of the offences are published. The cases have been through court so are already in the public domain. I am therefore not so sure that we need to be as cautious when it comes to the whole data protection element. If the information is already in the public domain, from what are we protecting individuals? Ultimately, we need to ensure that individuals who have been found guilty of cruelty to animals do not have the opportunity to do it again. The more people who are aware of that, the better. I encourage people to question the Department of Justice on the issue as well. We are very keen to move it forward.”
“<BR /> <BR />Over the past number of months, significant progress has been made on identifying the key issues that need to be addressed if such a register is to be implemented and maintained in Northern Ireland. The issues include compliance with data protection legislation and the appropriate disclosure of, or access to, conviction data. I have requested that my officials take those efforts forward and develop proposals on potential next steps before the end of this year.”
“With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will group questions 2 and 11 for answer. <BR /> <BR />I firmly believe that, where persons have been convicted of animal cruelty offences and banned by the courts from keeping animals, all actions that can reasonably be undertaken to reduce the risk of reoffending should be pursued. As such, I welcome the recent public petition on the potential for an animal cruelty register and am keen to explore how such a register would operate in Northern Ireland. I have already engaged with the Minister of Justice on the topic. My officials have been liaising with their counterparts in her Department. Officials have also been reviewing the effectiveness and impact of similar registers already in operation elsewhere.”
“What is very clear is that we had uncontrolled immigration. I have no problem with immigration. I have no problem with bringing in people whom we need. Uncontrolled immigration is entirely different, and I welcome the fact that we no longer have that. I also welcome the fact that our workers at the lower end of the scale are now better paid. If the Member is not aware that lorry drivers, digger drivers and people working in food factories have all had significant wage uplifts, the Member is not living in the real world, because the rest of us do know that. I welcome the fact that low-paid workers have had their pay increased since we left the European Union. That is part of the policy of not having uncontrolled immigration, which resulted in a situation in which everybody who worked in those types of jobs was on minimum wage.”
“That number will not throw immigration out of control. Rather, it will ensure that the food on our farms can be delivered to local people right across the United Kingdom.”
“I indicated to Mr McHugh — clearly, Ms McLaughlin did not take it in — what the farming and veterinary communities are saying down there. There is a shortage of key workers, and a lot of that has to do with EU policy, in that they can only bring people from the European Union. We had this problem in the health service many years ago, and we still have it. Many doctors used to come from India, Malaysia and countries like that, but we could not get them and we had to close hospital units because of a lack of doctors. The same applies in this instance. The workers are out there in the world, and we can bring them in. What I am saying to the UK Government is that we are not looking for tens of thousands of people here; we are looking for thousands — a relatively small number.”
“The situation is extremely urgent. We have engaged extensively with the industry and we are actively looking at our options. One of the options includes slaughtering pigs at birth so that the backlog that is building up does not continue unabated. Another option is to slaughter animals on-farm at some stage. However, that does not particularly deal with the instantaneous problem, because we have a backlog now. <BR /> <BR />One of the other areas that we could look at is putting pigs into cold storage. The problem is not the capacity for slaughter but the capacity for butchery. The processing companies would have to want to do that, but we are open to suggestions from the industry. The industry is best placed to come forward with solutions, and we will work closely with the industry to try to achieve them.”
“They have been here for many years and were very welcome to continue to stay in Northern Ireland. The people who supported Brexit voted for it so that we would not have uncontrolled immigration. Perhaps the Member wants uncontrolled immigration, because that keeps people's pay down and ensures that people work on minimum wage. I am glad to see lorry drivers, digger drivers and people who work in meat plants getting an uplift in their pay, because they work hard and they deserve to be well paid for the work that they do. I welcome those aspects that Brexit has delivered that mean higher pay for lower-paid workers. Perhaps the SDLP will catch on that that is a good thing for the community.”
“I really do have to pull the Member into line for that last comment. Who says that EU workers are not welcome in Northern Ireland and that they left here because they were not welcome?”
“<BR /> <BR />The Member may have some glowing report that nobody else knows about, describing how good things are in the European Union on this issue, but it is an issue that has been piling up in the European Union as well as in the United Kingdom. We are actually in a better position to respond because we can go to places like the Philippines and other countries where workforces are available. We just need an adjustment in government policy to do it. The Irish Government are stuck with EU rules, which, thankfully, we do not have.”
“I would have thought that a gentleman who lives so close to the border would know what is going on just across it. The chairman of the Irish Farmers' Association (IFA) national pigs committee, Roy Gallie, has said that the pig meat sector is under extreme pressure, due to a lack of suitable labour at processing level and on farms. The shortage of large-animal vets was raised by the Veterinary Ireland president, on the back of concerns recently expressed by the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine. Paul Brophy, who is one of the largest growers of broccoli in Ireland, described labour issues in the sector as "chronic" and that it will be the "unwinding of the industry" if it is not addressed.”
“As a supporter of Brexit, I wanted to see an end to the open-door policy on immigration. However, we should be in a position where we can bring people in where we need them, and we certainly need them in the food industry. I have repeatedly made that point to the UK Government, who have indicated that a lot of people at a local level are still unemployed and that they wish to have them in this well-paid employment. Again, I will point out to them that these are skilled jobs and that you cannot just lift someone out of unemployment and put them straight into a job like butchery or HGV driving. There has to be training and, in some instances, considerable training that takes years. Whitehall needs to look at that yet again.”