Edwin Poots
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I call Mr Eóin Tennyson. Again, this is Mr Tennyson's first opportunity to speak as a private Member, so I remind the House that it is convention that a maiden speech be made without interruption. However, if you choose to express views that provoke an interruption, you are likely to forfeit that protection.”
“Sorry — Ms Armstrong. My apologies. <BR /> <BR />That the Assembly could, in some way, get that money out when it is a UK Government responsibility. The UK Government have distributed it directly in Scotland and Wales, not through the Welsh Parliament and not through the Scottish Parliament.”
“I have not got time; I am sorry. <BR /> <BR />Ursula von der Leyen, who was in the Republic last week, made some of the most ridiculous claims about the British Government, who have supported Ukraine in a way that no other Government in Europe have and who have never engaged in the activity that was suggested by Ursula von der Leyen.”
“Today, a lot of statements have been made but there has not been a lot of fact behind a lot of what has been said. We have Michelle O'Neill, who walked out of her role as Health Minister — not for six months but for three years — and abandoned her position when we had Bengoa and there were all the problems with nursing that led to the str…”
“I need to deal with the issues first. <BR /> <BR />He referred to the Budget that he produced. No party supported that Budget. The Alliance Party did not support it, because it did not cover policing and prisons. Infrastructure did not support it, because it would not allow it to do the basics of what had to be done.”
“We had a circumstance where Sinn Féin repeated, month after month after month, that there were hundreds of millions to give to the public when that did not exist and when, in reality, Minister Murphy was racking up debt that will roll into next year, which will ensure that that will be a difficult financial year.”
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“I am not getting engaged in "whataboutery". I could find 101 examples of where money is being squandered. We have not introduced the National Crime Agency, for example, as a result of Sinn Féin and the SDLP. Money that could be taken from criminals and invested in services in Northern Ireland is being lost to Northern Ireland. The Member does not have a very good record on that issue. <BR /> <BR />I approached the First Minister and the deputy First Minister last March with John Compton, who had just retired and who came back from a trip to Cork, and the Chief Medical Officer to identify the issues and pressures that existed in health — pressures amounting to £160 million. We had a June monitoring round, which Sinn Féin held back until the end of July and then gave us a paltry £20 million.”
“I will give way in one moment. <BR /> <BR />Last year, the health budget was over budget by the same amount that we handed back to Westminster. I trust that Sinn Féin is proud that that money, which would have been available to health, ended up in London.”
“We are not concerned about the health of the people of Northern Ireland or about education or justice because welfare has to come first every time." Its members should hang their heads in shame about that.”
“I welcome the opportunity to participate in this debate and a very important debate it is. Mr McKay is just after talking about a false economy. That would be rich if he had any credibility in this issue. I believe that around £600,000 is needed to ensure that Dalriada Hospital can remain open through to March next year, yet, as a result of the intransigence of Sinn Féin and the SDLP, we are giving back to the Westminster coffers £87 million of our money that could be spent on health, education, policing and justice and regional development. Let us be very clear that Sinn Féin is saying, "Welfare first. Everything else can go to the dogs for all we care.”
“Does the Minister agree that it would not be unreasonable to introduce minimum sentencing for those who abuse, rob and hurt our elderly population, many of whom live in fear?”
“<BR /> <BR />Sinn Féin has covered up abuse for a considerable time. It stands to reason that, with young men on the run in safe houses with young girls, things happened that should not have happened. Let us some honesty and integrity for once —”
“<BR /> <BR />The Police Ombudsman has corresponded with Mr Givan, indicating that a report that that office carried out was completed and forwarded to senior managers for their approval. When was that? It was 10 April 2014 — seven months ago. The Police Ombudsman has hidden that completed report from public view. One has to ask: does Sinn Féin have its man in the Police Ombudsman's office? Frankly, it is not good enough to sit on something as serious as this for seven months without the public having their opportunity to hear what was said. I believe very clearly that we have not been well served by the Public Prosecution Service in these issues. The sooner it tells us the truth of what the report contains rather than hiding behind the Liam Adams appeal, the better for society in Northern Ireland.”
“We have deep concerns about how the authorities are handling these matters. The Minister of Justice does not intend to investigate the issue. That will be left to the Justice Committee, which I hope will have enough powers. The Minister has offered his cooperation, but he could have more powers than the Justice Committee to carry out such an investigation. The fact that the director of the Public Prosecution Service sat on a report carried out for him by the Attorney General for over a year causes us deep concern. As Mr Givan rightly pointed out, if the director has to keep stepping aside from issues, perhaps he needs to consider whether he is the right man for the job. We need to look at that and address it.”
“In the papers a couple of weeks ago, we read an accusation that Joe Cahill was a paedophile. It seems that, for Sinn Féin, the organisation is sacrosanct, must remain intact and is more important than anybody else, including victims of sex abuse.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />Therein lies the problem. Mr Adams now uses the fact that his dead father was a paedophile.”
“I think that Sinn Féin is failing and failing greatly today by not standing up and saying that what happened was wrong, condemning it and saying that it will do everything in its power to ensure that other young people who were abused in this manner have the opportunity to have their case heard and properly interrogated and for the people who carried out the heinous crime of rape to be brought to justice. Sinn Féin really needs to do that. It really needs to stand up for and with the victims of sex abuse, irrespective of whether it happened in Kincora, west Belfast or the Creggan. Any less than that standard will diminish the party greatly as a consequence.”
“First of all, I want to say that rape is always wrong. It does not matter whether it was carried out by a policeman in Kincora, a priest in Rubane or a Provo in Ballymurphy: rape is always wrong. Here we have, today, Sinn Féin going back to its old standards and adopting the mantra of victimhood. We have poor Gerry complaining that the Government are picking on him, and poor Jennifer complaining that the Assembly is picking on her. The victim here is not Sinn Féin; the victims are teenage girls who were raped, abused, bullied and subjected to kangaroo courts by the IRA. <BR /> <BR />I have no issue whatsoever with condemning anybody from the community that I represent, no matter how close they may have been to any of us at any stage.”
“A few weeks ago we had a debate on Kincora, and there was absolute unanimity in the House in its condemnation of what took place there and what needed to happen. I would love Sinn Féin Members to stand up in the same condemnation that they and we all engaged in a few weeks ago.”
“On the basis of receiving brucellosis-free status, is it the intention to relax further some of the standards that have been set as part of the quite tight regulations over the last number of years?”
“It needs to reflect on its management of situations around welfare reform and other circumstances. That is hitting people hard in Northern Ireland today and leading to redundancies, lay-offs and massive cuts. <BR /> <BR />This is not the way to do government, and we need people to step up to the plate. We are going into negotiations; let us go into negotiations in good faith. Let us hope that we can resolve this issue quickly, that we can resolve the issues around welfare quickly, and that we can look at how we deal with sensitive issues in our communities and which are causing hurt, hardship and misery to innocent victims of the Troubles. Let us see that we can provide real and true leadership in this Assembly as we move things forward.”
“Thank you, Mr Presiding Officer. I think the party leader has set out very clearly the position and Sinn Féin should look at what is being offered to it as an olive branch. We are in a situation where relationships are not as good as they should be, and that is something for us all to take cognisance of because this House needs to give real and true leadership to Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />We look at others who wish to see this place not working because they would like to fill the void, and therefore Sinn Féin in particular, as we seek to move this issue forward, needs to reflect on its behaviour over the course of the last three years since an agreement was made. It needs to reflect on situations like Castlederg and on situations like Flax Street, where it glorifies those who planted the Shankill bomb.”
“Mr Attwood was also responsible for an organisation called the Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA), which had a key role to play in that. For him simply to place the blame on the National Crime Agency, which did not have the powers to act, is wholly spurious.”
“— in a number of different ways. Get on board, and let us get this organisation in here and get its help.”
“<BR /> <BR />The public are fed up with illegal dumps across Northern Ireland, and we do not have that specialist service and support from the National Crime Agency. The public are fed up with the human trafficking that is taking place; with the young girls that are being brought into prostitution and who are being used and abused; with the people who are working in the back streets as cheap labour for gangmasters. We need all the resource that we can get to support us. <BR /> <BR />George Hamilton made it abundantly clear last week that he does not have that resource. There is the opportunity for us to introduce additional resource to Northern Ireland. There is the opportunity for those people to be held to account —”
“Accountability is certainly being placed on a pedestal well above actually catching criminals. The public are fed up. I remember, when I was Minister of the Environment, going to Newry and Mourne District Council, and it was fed up with having to clean up the aftermath of fuel launderers who left materials and toxic waste dumped at the side of the road. The council had to spend £1,000 a ton to get rid of it. They are fed up with it. The public are fed up with people having fuel laundering plants dismantled, but nobody ever appearing to be arrested. Who is operating these fuel laundering plants? We need to go after these people in a serious way and ensure that all of the tools are used to tackle it.”
“— no, I am not giving way again, Mr Byrne — with the PSNI. We really need to move ahead with this, and the SDLP needs to look at themselves and who they are is lining up with on this. They are lining up with Sinn Féin and all of the other people that I named at the start. The SDLP needs to reconsider their position. If they have genuine concerns, get them dealt with and let us move on. This business of carrying on and on and on, and delaying, delaying and delaying is brilliant news for all those criminals and gangsters out there.”
“Of course I agree with the Member. That is why we want it to happen. That is why we need it to happen. The Member has stated very clearly that the current arrangements are ineffective. Meanwhile, the SDLP are wringing their hands and saying that they cannot change it because we do not have as much accountability for the NCA as we have for the PSNI. It is not that we do not have accountability. It is that we do not have as much accountability as we have —”
“I know that the public will be hugely disappointed. For a considerable period of time, the SDLP have positioned themselves as the stooges of Sinn Féin. They will never separate themselves from Sinn Féin on any of the big issues. They are like rabbits caught in the headlights.”
“They are getting that good news free and gratis from none other than Sinn Féin — we would well expect them to give them that good news — and the SDLP. They are hiding behind a fig leaf of accountability, but, behind their fig leaf, all we see is nakedness. They have no real substance to their argument, and all those whom I named will be better off as a consequence of their activities.”
“It was an interesting line that the previous Member who spoke took. He seemed to support cuts to policing and railed against everything that was suggested last week about the pressures that police would be put under. He has made it very clear that Sinn Féin thinks that we can do with considerably less police and the services they provide in Northern Ireland. I am interested in hearing that argument develop over the next number of days. <BR /> <BR />The Assembly does not often bring good news to people, but good news is going out today. There is good news for fuel launderers, cigarette and alcohol smugglers, drug barons, pimps, human traffickers, gangmasters, fraudsters, those who are wrecking our environment through illegal dumping and, of course, the paramilitary organisations.”
“Without repeating what everybody else has said, I would just like to say that George Savage was a decent, honourable gentleman and a pleasure for all of us to do business with. I called with George around three weeks ago, and we had a good time together. Dr Paisley had just passed at the time, and I was able to tell George of the high regard that Dr Paisley had held him in. Dr Paisley was Chair of the Agriculture Committee while George was Deputy Chair, and I know that Dr Paisley leant on George a lot for advice, as someone working at the coalface. I trust that it was some comfort to George, even at that time, to be told of the high regard in which he was held even by someone of Dr Paisley's standing. <BR /> <BR />My sympathies go to George Jnr, Kyle and Nigel, and in particular to Joy, who has lost a dear husband.”
“Powerful people have used their power to abuse the vulnerable. That is something that we must always be very conscious of. In this instance, it has been alleged that people of great seniority in the security services and other places abused the trust that they had in order to victimise those young people. We owe it to those young people to do our utmost to find the truth. That is why we should ensure that the inquiry led by Fiona Woolf includes Kincora. Lord Justice Hart does not have adequate powers at this stage to dig deep enough into the issue, and that is why we would like to take it further. It is incumbent on the Home Secretary, Theresa May, to respond positively to what she hears in the House and, more importantly, to what she hears from the victims of this terrible crime.”
“We must ensure that they receive the appropriate care from the appropriate people. That is work that we are always learning about. Very often, where you have vulnerable young people, you will have powerful people instigating the perpetration. I have absolutely no doubt that powerful people were involved in what was going on in Kincora. That is why we did not get the truth in the 1980s, even though every piece of evidence was pointing in a particular direction. That is why it is important that we get the truth now. <BR /> <BR />Kincora was not the only place. Abuse took place in the republican movement, and leading families, such as the Adams family, the Cahill family and the Meehan family, largely got away scot-free as well. It is not just about Kincora or Rubane and the Catholic Church; it goes much broader than that.”
“The harm that is done to a young person or a child by the perpetrators — the evil, twisted perverts — will live with them throughout their life. <BR /> <BR />When I look at the findings of the Terry report, I think that, if they were not so terrible, they would be laughable. Sir George Terry could have come to his conclusions only as a result of cover-up, whitewash and sham. Surely the lives that have been impacted on, harmed and damaged as a consequence of the evil, twisted practices of individuals deserve better than that. We all know that, where there is vulnerability, there will be perpetrators. There is nobody more vulnerable than young people who have lost their family and been put into homes and other services. That is why we must be so careful in protecting those young people.”
“As a young man growing up, I remember hearing rumours about Kincora and about the various inquiries into Kincora. The truth is that there was a cover-up of what happened at Kincora. The truth was never properly told, and the victims of abuse in Kincora deserve the truth. It is as simple as that. I find many things disgusting, but one thing that I find particularly repellent is any individual thinking that they have the right to harm a child, to abuse a child, to interfere with a child and to destroy that child. I recently met a young man who had been a victim in Rubane, which we heard a little about yesterday in the Hart inquiry. Lives are not destroyed just at the time; they are destroyed for good in so many instances.”
“What steps are taken to ensure that the people carrying out the inspections actually know what they are doing? I wrote to the Minister recently about a case where the gentleman had soil stored and people mistook it for chicken manure. That soil has now been used, as soil, by another Department for its facility. Can we have people who know what they are doing when they carry out inspections?”
“Congratulations to the Minister on his appointment.”
“That will not make headlines, because the fact that you have not had a stroke is not news, but for the 150 people who do not have a stroke, we will take great pride in delivering that through Transforming Your Care. That is what we mean when we talk about prevention and early intervention to get better medical outcomes. <BR /> <BR />We now have elderly people who get blood transfusions and IV antibiotics in their own home. We have cancer patients who are getting treatments in their own home that were not previously available. That is Transforming Your Care in action, and that is where we are progressing to. That is why I am totally committed to Transforming Your Care, despite Members on her Benches questioning, for some considerable time, whether we should be doing it.”
“Of course, TYC came after the Budget, so it was never part of the original Budget. It has always been reliant on monitoring rounds. I know that the Member does not sit on the Committee, so she may not understand the issues as well as she might otherwise, but that has always been the case, so it is not a breaking story today. <BR /> <BR />We have managed to invest £40 million in TYC. I would like to have invested more at this point, but we are making a dramatic difference. The Member might not like to hear about it, but ongoing work on atrial fibrillation will ensure that 150 fewer people in Northern Ireland suffer from stroke than is currently the case.”
“That is the plan for this winter, and I am glad to be able to inform the Member of that.”
“I am not sure why the Member wants me to consider the closure of an emergency department that has not been open for a period. <BR /> <BR />If the Member had followed the health brief particularly well, she would have heard that it is our intention to open up facilities in Belfast City Hospital to ensure that general practitioners will be able to directly admit mainly older people who have respiratory or renal conditions and to use facilities there for a medical assessment unit. So, many older people will not have to go through an emergency department to be admitted to hospital. All their tests will be run at the City Hospital, after which admittance will be allowed, although, if a different decision is arrived at by the consultants, that will not be the case.”
“All these moneys will be identified at the start of the year for a particular service. If the money is not spent, it will be spent somewhere else because it certainly will not be handed back. In the meantime, we will seek a way forward and an agreement that is in everybody's interest.”
“That is a very good question about sustaining a legal challenge the second time round. That will obviously involve a course of work. We will work closely with the representative bodies to arrive at a conclusion whereby we can deliver as much as possible of what would be acceptable to the representative bodies and ensure that we can move forward with it in a very professional way.”
“Obviously, a considerable investment is involved to reduce the waiting times for the individuals concerned. If it becomes an annual issue, we will have to make a considerable investment again to pull back to the position that we are now in. It is important that we as an Assembly do not allow slippage. The issue should be important to us. People who were not employable are back in employment on the basis of receiving these drugs. They have normality in their life again, which did not exist because they were constantly in quite severe pain.”
“Mr Wells brought rheumatologists and individuals who were suffering to see us, and we made a decision that people would not have to wait for the specialist drug. The drug is also used for the treatment of psoriasis, and the number of people waiting has moved from 48 in April 2012 to 18 in June 2014. The number waiting over three months for the treatment fell from 26 in April 2012 to one in June 2014. Considerable progress has been made on what is an expensive drug but one that, nonetheless, makes a dramatic difference to the well-being of individuals who use it.”
“I remember doing the door during the 2007 election and listening to someone who had been waiting for specialist drugs. It had been eight months since the individual had been recommended for drugs for rheumatoid arthritis. They could not bear the pain so, after two months, had started to buy the drug themselves on the basis that they would get it after nine months but had had warnings that the drug would be delayed even further. <BR /> <BR />I am glad to say that there has been a 65% reduction in the number of patients waiting for specialist drug treatment for arthritis, from 393 in June 2011 to 137 in June 2014. The number of patients who were waiting over three months for treatment in June 2011 was 290 compared with zero today. That was something that was reflected to us.”
“Nursing expertise was provided by Dr Patricia Hickey, also from the Boston Children's Hospital. We brought in people who have real expertise on the issue. They have made their recommendations, and we will have to give them serious consideration.”
“One of the issues is that the Republic of Ireland has to develop more intensive care beds in their children's hospital. They are building a new children's hospital, but transferring all the surgery to Dublin at this time would put considerable pressures on them. They have work to do to respond appropriately to this. We are hoping that, over the next month, we will be in a position to make a further announcement on it. This, clearly, is a report, and it has recommendations. It is up to me to hear the views of the Assembly and others in arriving at a decision based on the recommendations. I think that the standing of the people who carried out the report is very important. You have Dr Mayer from the Boston Children's Hospital, Dr Adrian Moran from the Maine Medical Center and Dr John Sinclair from Yorkhill Children's Hospital.”
“There is one particular issue of concern to parents, their representatives and the various organisations that provide that support, and that was around surgical care being provided in Belfast. Regrettably, the conclusion that these key experts have come to is that the overall model for delivering children and adults' congenital heart services on the island of Ireland would not allow Belfast to sustain surgery at that site. That would mean that the vast majority of surgery would be carried out in Dublin.”
“I thank the Member for the question. We sought specific advice on this issue, and we brought in key people to assist us on that. Professor Mayer came over and led a team from Boston in the United States of America to look into paediatric congenital cardiac care, and that has led to a report being produced, which is now with our Department and, indeed, the Department in the Republic of Ireland. At this stage, the Department in the Republic of Ireland is not ready to release the contents of that report, although I hope that that will change over the next month. I think that it is important that the public are aware of the recommendations at an appropriate time.”
“I am encouraged that people want to take on the job of chief executive of a trust, because, whilst we can all criticise them and they will not always please us, it is an immensely difficult job to have to carry out, particularly when we are facing more and more demand and less and less resource.”
“It almost certainly will. The Northern Trust has always had significant difficulties with historical funding, and it provides for the largest population of any trust. Whilst Belfast is a larger trust and is the centre for a lot of expertise, the Northern Trust has a larger population. So, it faces huge challenges, particularly when you get into areas of how we care for the elderly, vulnerable adults and all of that. There are massive pressures upon that trust, given the population that it serves and the budget that it has. People talk about the £140 million, which is the pressure that is unmet. We have already asked for £170 million of savings before that, which the Northern Trust and others are facilitating for us.”
“That negativity that existed around Antrim Area Hospital has diminished greatly over the course of the past two or three years, and that is something that we need to continue to work on with people like Dr Stevens to ensure that that remains the case.”
“There are a number of key challenges in the Northern Trust area. I think that all trusts outside the Belfast Trust have particular challenges in having the requisite number of consultants available to them. That is an area where hopefully having someone who has real standing in the medical community will be able to attract people to Antrim Area Hospital. I see terrific work going on in that hospital, including in the labs, cancer units and so forth. Great service is being provided throughout the hospital. It had, for a long time, been the focus of a lot of negative attention relating to the ED. Whilst it is not perfect, it is certainly considerably better than it was two or three years ago.”
“It goes back into the health service budget, and that budget has many stresses and strains, as everybody in this House should well know given the conversation that has been had over the past six or eight weeks.”