Edwin Poots
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I call Mr Eóin Tennyson. Again, this is Mr Tennyson's first opportunity to speak as a private Member, so I remind the House that it is convention that a maiden speech be made without interruption. However, if you choose to express views that provoke an interruption, you are likely to forfeit that protection.”
“Sorry — Ms Armstrong. My apologies. <BR /> <BR />That the Assembly could, in some way, get that money out when it is a UK Government responsibility. The UK Government have distributed it directly in Scotland and Wales, not through the Welsh Parliament and not through the Scottish Parliament.”
“I have not got time; I am sorry. <BR /> <BR />Ursula von der Leyen, who was in the Republic last week, made some of the most ridiculous claims about the British Government, who have supported Ukraine in a way that no other Government in Europe have and who have never engaged in the activity that was suggested by Ursula von der Leyen.”
“Today, a lot of statements have been made but there has not been a lot of fact behind a lot of what has been said. We have Michelle O'Neill, who walked out of her role as Health Minister — not for six months but for three years — and abandoned her position when we had Bengoa and there were all the problems with nursing that led to the str…”
“I need to deal with the issues first. <BR /> <BR />He referred to the Budget that he produced. No party supported that Budget. The Alliance Party did not support it, because it did not cover policing and prisons. Infrastructure did not support it, because it would not allow it to do the basics of what had to be done.”
“We had a circumstance where Sinn Féin repeated, month after month after month, that there were hundreds of millions to give to the public when that did not exist and when, in reality, Minister Murphy was racking up debt that will roll into next year, which will ensure that that will be a difficult financial year.”
The complete record
Every one of 3,549 lines we hold for Edwin Poots, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 51 of 71.
“Clause 125 gives effect to schedule 19, which allows the DEFRA Secretary of State to make regulations to amend two pieces of retained European Union law relating to registration, evaluation, authorisation and restriction of chemicals, generally referred to as REACH. These are the REACH Regulation and the REACH Enforcement Regulations 2008. The Secretary of State cannot make such regulations without the consent of the devolved Administrations, including DAERA, and is also required to consider any request by a relevant devolved authority to make regulations. The schedule also confers a power on DAERA and/or the Department for the Economy to amend REACH Enforcement Regulations 2008 independently of the DEFRA Secretary of State.”
“The provision will ensure that, after the transition period, the UK will still be able to update the list of priority hazardous substances and specify standards. <BR /> <BR />Clause 83, which I have just mentioned, confers the same powers on DAERA in relation to Northern Ireland to make regulations about the substances to be taken into account when assessing the chemical status of surface water or ground water and to specify standards for those substances or in relation to the chemical status of water bodies. Again, this will ensure that Northern Ireland can continue to update the list of priority hazardous substances and specify standards after the end of the transition period. <BR /> <BR />Part 8 of the Bill covers miscellaneous and general provisions and includes the final provision for which I seek legislative consent.”
“<BR /> <BR />Clause 68 is a technical amendment to ensure the amendments to the Waste and Contaminated Land (Northern Ireland) Order 1997 by the Environment Bill, which will confer functions on DAERA, rather than the former Department of the Environment. <BR /> <BR />I now turn to Part 5 of the Bill about provisions relating to the water environment. Clause 81 provides a regulation-making power to the DEFRA Secretary of State to make provision about the substances to be taken into account in assessing the chemical status of surface water or ground water and to specify standards for those substances or in relation to the chemical status of water bodies. Where those regulations could be made under DAERA's own powers, under clause 83, the DEFRA Secretary of State must obtain DAERA's consent.”
“<BR /> <BR />Clause 62 includes new powers to allow for fees to be charged to recover costs in relation to waste management licensing of producer responsibility schemes. The powers will enable the fees and charges to be updated by way of a charging scheme. Charging for regulatory activities carried out reduces the burden on general taxation. The clause aims to ensure that the costs associated with enforcement activity in Northern Ireland are appropriately recovered — a practical application of "the polluter pays" principle. <BR /> <BR />Clause 64 ensures that the Department will have powers to direct a registered carrier to collect specified waste and deliver it to a specified site. That addresses a gap in current legislation with respect to the removal of harmful waste from a site, and its safe treatment or disposal.”
“<BR /> <BR />Clause 56 relates to new powers to establish a mandatory electronic system to record and monitor the movement of waste. It includes powers to impose fees and charges, and to create associated criminal offences and civil penalties for the breaches of any regulations made under the powers. <BR />The provision aims to improve the management and tracking of waste, thereby assisting in the detection and reduction of waste crime in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />Clause 58 updates the powers available to DAERA in respect of the regulation of hazardous waste. That includes providing for the imposition of civil sanctions in respect of contraventions of regulations and the updating of fixed penalty amounts that can be applied in relation to offences.”
“<BR /> <BR />Clause 52 and its associated schedule 9 allow DAERA to make regulations for Northern Ireland relating to charging for a range of single-use plastic items by sellers of goods and services. It also provides for the enforcement of those regulations, including the imposition of civil sanctions. It is intended to build on the success of the charge for carrier bags. <BR /> <BR />Clause 53, insofar as it relates to Northern Ireland, amends schedule 6 of the Climate Change Act to allow DAERA to make regulations requiring the sellers of carrier bags to register with an administrator. The regulations may also make provision about applications for registration, the period of registration, the cancellation of registration and the payment of registration fees, including the amount.”
“Alongside schedule 6, these provisions are intended to encourage more sustainable and efficient use of materials. <BR /> <BR />Clause 51 schedule 8 brings into effect and deals with deposit-and-return schemes. The provision allows DAERA to make regulations to establish and enforce deposit schemes. Under the schemes, consumers can pay a deposit when they buy an item — for example, a drink in a bottle or can — which is redeemed when the used item is returned. Such schemes can reduce littering and increase recycling and reuse. <BR /> <BR />Under clauses 47 to 51, regulations from Northern Ireland may be made by the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, but only with DAERA's consent. An example of where that might be granted is where there is agreement on the benefit of taking a UK-wide approach to a scheme.”
“The provision is designed to incentivise producers to design products with sustainability in mind with the aim of reducing the consumption of raw materials. <BR /> <BR />Clause 49 gives effect to schedule 6 and is concerned with resource efficiency information, allowing DAERA to make product-specific regulations, setting requirements to provide information about a product's resource efficiency. It also provides for enforcement arrangements. The provision is designed to require clear labelling on products to enable consumers to identify those that are more durable, repairable and recyclable. <BR /> <BR />Clause 50 gives effect to schedule 7, and also relates to resource efficiency. Under the provision, DAERA can make regulations setting requirements for specific products' resource efficiency. Enforcement arrangements are also provided for.”
“Clause 47 also repeals the producer responsibility obligations, which are no longer required alongside the provisions of schedule 4. Those provisions will allow me, as Minister, to keep producer responsibility schemes operable, and/or reformed or to introduce schemes alongside the rest of the UK. <BR /> <BR />Clause 28 gives effect to schedule 5, which also deals with producer responsibility, conferring powers on DAERA to make Northern Ireland regulations that may require those involved in the manufacture, processing, distribution or supply of products or materials to pay for or contribute to the cost of disposing of those items when they become waste. It also provides for the enforcement of those regulations.”
“For Northern Ireland, schedule 4 confers on DAERA powers to make new regulations under which producer responsibility obligations can be imposed on specified persons and in relation to specified products and materials. It also provides for enforcement of these regulations.”
“Should any amendments to Northern Ireland provisions proposed during the Bill's passage through Parliament fall outside the scope of this motion, a further legislative consent motion would, of course, be tabled in accordance with the requirements of the relevant Standing Orders. <BR /> <BR />Part 3 contains provisions on waste and resource efficiency. Clause 47 gives effect to schedule 4, which deals with producer responsibility, obliging business that place certain specified products or materials on the market to take greater responsibility for those products or materials once they have become waste. The Environment Bill provides the means by which the UK-wide producer responsibility schemes can be replaced and updated and new obligations placed on producers in relation to reuse, redistribution, recycling and recovery of products.”
“<BR /> <BR />At this point, it is appropriate to advise Members that it is my understanding that the UK Government intend to table a small number of amendments to the provisions relating to the OEP when the Westminster Committee Stage resumes. I have not yet had the opportunity to consider the proposals fully and, obviously, it would not be appropriate for me to announce UK Government policy, but I can say that these amendments are intended to clarify the OEP's role. I will consider whether similar amendments would also be desirable for Northern Ireland and will advise Executive colleagues and the AERA Committee as appropriate.”
“The provisions of schedule 3 would give the OEP operating in Northern Ireland broadly similar powers to the OEP operating in England. These powers would allow the OEP to monitor the implementation of environmental law and progress in improving the natural environment in accordance with any environmental improvement plans agreed by the Executive; provide Northern Ireland Departments with advice — for example, on any proposed changes to environmental law; and investigate any failures by public authorities in Northern Ireland to comply with environmental law, taking appropriate enforcement action when necessary. This would allow us to address an obvious environmental governance gap as a result of departure from the EU.”
“Part 2 allows for the preparation and publication of a statement on the interpretation and application of relevant environmental principles to which Northern Ireland Departments and UK Government Ministers must have regard when making policy in respect of Northern Ireland. This would allow us to address the gaps in arrangements relating to environmental principles as a result of departure from the EU. <BR /> <BR />Clause 46 concerns the office for environmental protection (OEP) and gives effect to schedule 3, which would allow this body to exercise its functions in Northern Ireland. Its broad role would be to replace the environmental oversight function of the European Commission, holding public bodies to account for any failure to comply with environmental law.”
“I will start with the relevant provisions in Part 2 of the Bill, which relate to environmental governance. Clause 45 gives effect to schedule 2, which is split into two Parts. Part 1 provides for the arrangements for the development and management of environmental improvement plans. Part 2 outlines the means by which the environmental principles currently enshrined in the treaty on the functioning of the EU can be incorporated into Northern Ireland law and, subsequently, policy-making. <BR /> <BR />More specifically, Part 1 provides for, first, the preparation, review, revision and renewal of environmental improvement plans and, secondly, the collection of data to assist with monitoring progress on environmental and improvement plans. This allows plans to improve the natural environment to be placed on a statutory footing.”
“However, in this case, there simply is not time to deliver fully considered Northern Ireland legislation before the end of the transition period. Failure to take this opportunity to keep open the options presented by this UK Bill would be detrimental to environmental governance and safeguards in Northern Ireland. To be clear, this does not constrain the Assembly from enacting additional or alternative Northern Ireland legislation relating to any of the devolved matters in the Bill in future. <BR /> <BR />There are 17 clauses and nine associated schedules for which legislative consent is sought. These cover a range of environmental matters, including improving the natural environment, environmental oversight, waste, resource efficiency, water and chemicals.”
“Subsequent iterations of the Bill included a range of other environmental matters, some of which are driven by EU withdrawal, while others seek to maintain existing UK-wide systems. A Bill has been drafted so as not to constrain the ability of the Assembly to scrutinise the Bill. This is a key point, but with one exception. The provisions that deal with the devolved matters in Northern Ireland can be implemented only after being debated and approved in the Chamber. That one exception, a power to amend specific chemicals legislation, had to be made for technical reasons and would still require the approval of DAERA before it could be implemented here. <BR /> <BR />It is my general view that, where possible, devolved matters should be legislated for by the Assembly.”
“At this point, I record my appreciation for the work that has been carried out by the Committee for Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs in completing its report under difficult circumstances for the benefit of the Assembly. <BR /> <BR />The original intention of the Bill was to address the environmental governance gaps that will be created at the end of the EU withdrawal transition period, in particular the absence of the environment oversight role that is currently undertaken by the European Commission and the environmental principles that are embedded in the EU treaties. The UK Government published a draft Bill in December 2018 that addressed those specific points and gave a statutory footing for their 25-year plan for the environment.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am grateful for the opportunity to bring the legislative consent motion forward and to speak about an issue that affects us all. The Environment Bill is a UK Government Bill, containing a range of clauses; some of which apply UK-wide, some only to England and some to Northern Ireland and other devolved jurisdictions. A number of matters that are covered by the Bill are reserved and, as such, do not require the consent of the Assembly for the UK Government to legislate at Westminster. Transfrontier shipment of waste is an example. However, the environment in general is a devolved matter and, hence, most of the clauses in the Bill that apply to Northern Ireland require the Assembly's consent.”
“NIEA always seeks to recover the costs that are involved, and it is for the courts to then impose the fines. Members have often indicated their dissatisfaction with that. The scale of the fines that can be imposed is quite significant, but it is not always utilised. That is an issue that the Member rightly raises. I am not in a position to impose fines; we set the law and others administer it. It is for the people who administer the law to impose the appropriate fines and sanctions on those whose activities have brought them before a court.”
“It is hugely unfortunate that those job losses are happening. Unfortunately, there is a reality, and COVID has driven that home in the aerospace industry, and there will be radical change there. We have a specialist aerospace industry in Northern Ireland, and job losses are a consequence that has come about and we need to look at how we can address that and support those workers by providing high-quality jobs, maybe in other industries that are not under the same threat. We will see many job losses over the next number of weeks and months, but as we come out of COVID we need to be very flexible and fast on our feet in demonstrating how we can create other opportunities for people who are losing their jobs.”
“I do not know whether the Member thinks that it is a good idea to have waste from the agri-sector going into waterways. Most farmers do not believe that. The vast majority of farmers do not want it. So, I am not sure where the Member is coming from; I do not know whether he thinks that using energy that is produced by combustion in the next 100 years, as opposed to the energy that exists around us, is a good idea. I would much prefer to use energy that is harvested in the Irish Sea, the Atlantic Ocean or the hills of County Tyrone than use gas that comes from Russia — from Mr Putin — or use oil that comes from Iran. I would much prefer to have energy security from our own sources, and the benefits of that to the environment are there to be seen. So, the route that the Member is going down is not a particularly logical one.”
“I thank the Member for his question. We are in circumstances in which many of the actions that have been taken have actually been cost-neutral or have had marginal costs, but the benefits have been phenomenal. The Member would do well to reflect upon that. Significant organisations have engaged in partnerships with us through prosperity agreements, not because it is misty-eyed but because it is economically beneficial to the company and helps it to sustain its position in the market and continue to provide jobs. Some of those actions will actually create economies in those companies. <BR /> <BR />I do not know whether the Member is suggesting that it is a good idea to use plastic that has been produced by oil once and, then, put it into the ground, where it will still exist one thousand years later.”
“Perhaps, the Green Party thinks that that is sustainable as an environmental solution, as opposed to reducing greenhouse gases, carbon, methane and ammonia, and, at the same time, allowing businesses to grow and create jobs, opportunities and wealth, which can, then, be invested in health, education and infrastructure. That is my way. The Green Party may want to have some sort of trashed place. I do not want that. I want a vibrant Northern Ireland that is positive and forward-looking.”
“The emphasis on growth with regard to the environment demonstrates that both can be done in conjunction. If we do not have growth, we have retraction. If we have retraction, we have unemployment. If we have unemployment, we have hardship and misery. I am not someone who will bring about hardship and misery. Perhaps, it is the policy of the Green Party to make people unemployed and have hardship and misery, and to compare the challenges that we face environmentally to COVID-19. The response to COVID-19 is temporary and was made in the moment to respond to a particular crisis. No Government in the world could sustain what is currently happening. The borrowing of tens of billions, trillions, pounds and dollars is not sustainable.”
“We will look at every opportunity that lies there, whether it is European or beyond the shores of the European Union. We are very happy to look at whatever opportunities exist, but the policy that I wish to follow is that we produce premium product at the top end of the market, not the bottom end. That is the market that we need to go after. Obviously, parts of the European Union will fit that bill.”
“<BR /> <BR />I want to see less of all forms of transport on our roads, with more people working from home. COVID-19 has awoken us to the possibilities that exist, and that, again, provides an opportunity for the economy in Northern Ireland, because it is much more inexpensive to employ someone to work from their home in Holywood, Hillsborough or wherever else than have those people sitting in an office in London, living in London and going through that transportation system. There are opportunities for Northern Ireland, and we need to embrace them.”
“We are very happy to work with all the other Departments, as I indicated to other Members, and transportation is a very important issue. However, COVID-19 has taught us all the lesson that we probably do not need to use as much transport, whether that be aeroplanes, cars, trains or buses, and that many of us can do much more work from our homes. That has been demonstrated to be something that we are capable of doing, and it is a very important demonstration, because we have talked about working from home for years and people were always a bit unsure about it. The fact is that much of the work that we do can be monitored and you can see the outputs of the individuals. Where it is achievable, it should not be regarded as a negative by either business or government.”
“Those are all excellent and innovative ideas that are making a significant contribution to the circular economy that we desire.”
“There are facilities that are producing their own energy and using it to chill their fridges, drive the lorries and other vehicles that are doing the transporting and so forth.”
“Good practice needs to be followed throughout the system. From the very start of the process and right through its entirety, factories need to identify good practice on how they manage their waste, how they manage their effluence, what energy they are using, whether they can produce energy of their own and resource water of their own. All those things are in there. I know of facilities that are almost entirely circular and perhaps some that are entirely circular. That is important and something that many businesses have been looking at. It was not on the radar 20 years ago but it is now. It is very important for them and many are responding in positive ways. It is a selling point.”
“We need to recognise that and not simply label something a factory farm when best practice is being followed. Let us judge everything in the round and on its merits as opposed to its scale. We will need to judge in the round the environmental impact that they make relative to their output.”
“It all depends on what the term "factory farming" is referring to. I do not consider farms that have higher levels of livestock and have to employ additional people over and above the family to be factory farms. Some of the larger pork farms that we have and that are being developed in Northern Ireland can reduce the amounts of ammonia and other gases as a consequence of their being prepared to make significant investment. We need to reflect on that. You can have older or smaller systems in place the environmental footprint of which is much larger given their output. We are not in the situation of the United States, for example, where you could go to a farm that has 20,000 cows; that is factory farming. However, we do have larger farms. Some of those larger farms are carrying out best practice.”
“Yes. I will work with the Economy Minister and all Ministers on this. We brought this strategy to the Executive on an awayday. I think that that was in February, but it was certainly before COVID struck. We are keen to press ahead with it. COVID has delayed it slightly, but that is a blip and will not prevent us carrying this out. As we come out of COVID, we now want to focus on its delivery. So, yes, the Economy Minister will be crucial, as will the Infrastructure Minister. However, every Minister will have a role in delivering this. I will work with all my Executive colleagues on its delivery.”
“<BR /> <BR />Sustainable food can and should be produced here. We need to have the support to do that and to ensure that we can go forward. We are not going to be cutting down rain forests or engaging in those negative environmental activities that are happening in many other parts of the world in producing food. <BR /> <BR />It needs to be recognised that it will cost a bit more to do that, but for the food security of this country we need to ensure that we have as much food as possible produced at home at the local base and import less, if possible.”
“Absolutely. I challenged some supermarkets during the early part of COVID about their importation of goods. I will continue to do that, and to make clear that they have a premium product on their doorstep that we need to make greater utilisation of. That product is actually of higher value as a consequence of the standards by which it is produced. <BR /> <BR />During COVID, there was one weekend when Calais was proving a tad difficult and there was a panic about not having enough food in the UK over the following week. That is a demonstration of the importance of food security. I know that some advisers in Number 10 at the start of the year were suggesting that we did not really need farming in the UK. That is a nonsense of a suggestion for the environment and the public's well-being.”
“The Environment Bill is necessary to ensure that we do not leave gaps after we leave the European Union. I do not believe that it stops with the Environment Bill. We need to be looking at the green growth strategy, and giving it resource and legislative cover. All those things will be applied as we develop and understand the direction that we are taking.”
“I know that the farming community will buy into that because we have so many innovative and excellent farmers in Northern Ireland.”
“A series of things can be done. We have challenges around water management. We make considerable use of the assets that exist, which applies a degree of pressure. Helping with capital investment schemes, and more research and development through AFBI and others, will be important. <BR /> <BR />We will be looking at further tranches of the environmental farming scheme. Providing good advice to farmers, a wider roll-out of good practice and not reinventing the wheel will be important. In all of that, we do not intend to reinvent the wheel where good practice exists. <BR /> <BR />How do we harness that good practice? How do we encourage others to participate in that good practice? How do we ensure that we can improve on that, where possible?”
“People will pay a premium for that, and there will be a benefit to the entire economy and to the people who work in that economy.”
“The message that needs to go out to the public is that that food has been produced in a sustainable way, with regard to animal welfare, environmental production, food miles, for example, and the treatment of the people employed in the processing of the goods. If we can apply those sustainability measures to whatever we produce in Northern Ireland — not just food — it will help us sell our product as a premium product. <BR /> <BR />I do not want Northern Ireland to be competing at the bottom end; I do not want us to be a commodity-based market. I want us to be a producer of premium goods and to be recognised across the world as such, just as German manufacturing, for example, is recognised as being amongst the best in the world. I want whatever Northern Ireland produces to be recognised as amongst the best in the world.”
“I have been considering the proposals of the NDNA agreement for the establishment of an independent agency to form part of the possible outline of a future Programme for Government. That will be no small task, given the scope of the potential impacts, and other issues will need to be addressed. <BR /> <BR />I agree entirely with the Member that this is a window of opportunity for us and that it should be seen as such. As new agreements are made, or deals or done, after the UK moves on from the European Union, we could be left with challenges with imported food coming into the UK that is of a different standard to ours, for example.”
“In efforts to achieve a more circular economy, can we capture hydrogen from the residual refuse derived fuel (RFD) waste? Can we derive fuel from that? Those are areas that we need to look at. That is how we can grow the economy and go forward in an environmentally sustainable way, because 100% of that material, which could be described as waste, has a useful purpose.”
“Thankfully, a lot of tractors have become more fuel-efficient over the years, so the more modern tractor is more fuel-efficient than older tractors. I know that many people do not like it, but the bigger the machine and the equipment behind it, the more energy-efficient they are. That is a good thing. It works better if there are fewer, bigger machines rather than lots of smaller machines. We see the opportunities that exist with electric cars, but I suspect that they do not exist to the same extent for HGVs and tractors and agricultural machinery. That is where we need to be looking at other opportunities, such as hydrogen. I welcome the work that has been done by Wrightbus, for example, in Ballymena, in developing hydrogen buses. If it has been done for buses, I assume that it can be done for tractors and lorries.”
“We need to encourage more of that, particularly if hundreds of thousands of jobs are potentially to be created across the United Kingdom for that. It is important that people are educated in a way that prepares them for those jobs.”
“I am used, Mr Chair, to addressing the House as well as you. It is a habit that I have of actually speaking to the Members who are asking questions and so forth. However, because we only have the one Speaker, I will take your advice on the matter. <BR /> <BR />In terms of the question asked by the Member for East Londonderry, it is critical that we get our younger population on board with us. The one thing that I despair of is the amount of waste that is thrown on the side of our roads. On every country road that you go up there are used drink cans, papers from food outlets, crisp bags and all sorts of things. It is not appropriate. It should not happen. Education should take that out of the system, so we need to encourage the environment to be at the centre of education. There are now, GCSEs in land use and agriculture and so forth.”
“<BR /> <BR />Last week, I met three companies that employ 700 people in recycling. They keep huge volumes of that waste in the economy in Northern Ireland. I do not want to see recycling happen and then that material being put on a ship to China and we do not know what is happening to it. We want to see it recycled here. It is about supporting businesses to do that here and ensuring that we have that circular economy.”
“We have significant opportunities, and I referenced the £23 million fund that is looking at how we can better improve on our waste strategy. Achieving a 50% recycling rate by 2020 was an admirable aim. I set that policy way back in 2010 and was told that we had no chance: we did it. Now we are looking at 2030 and what we can achieve. Can we achieve 70%? That is a decision that I have to make, but it certainly would be a noble aspiration. Achieving 70% is one thing, but making good utilisation of the product is another matter entirely. In your constituency, for example, Cherry Pipes recycles a lot of plastics. In Fermanagh and South Tyrone we have a company recycling a lot of bottles. We have others recycling considerable amounts of paper that are then reused. All that is absolutely critical.”
“That work will happen in due course, when the strategy is more formalised.”
“Today's statement is about delivering the concept. Over the next year, as we work with other Departments, with the Committee and, indeed, the entire House, that concept will become the strategy, and the strategy will be bid for on the basis of what, we recognise, is needed to move it forward. It is important for all of us that we understand that, environmentally, this is an opportunity for our economy, not a threat to it. It is an opportunity to build. That is what we want to do: we want to build our economy in a sustainable way; we want to ensure that growth happens in a sustainable way; and we want to ensure that, as we do things that help and protect the environment, we grow our economy alongside that. <BR /> <BR />We will produce budgets. However, now is just not the time.”