Edwin Poots
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I call Mr Eóin Tennyson. Again, this is Mr Tennyson's first opportunity to speak as a private Member, so I remind the House that it is convention that a maiden speech be made without interruption. However, if you choose to express views that provoke an interruption, you are likely to forfeit that protection.”
“Sorry — Ms Armstrong. My apologies. <BR /> <BR />That the Assembly could, in some way, get that money out when it is a UK Government responsibility. The UK Government have distributed it directly in Scotland and Wales, not through the Welsh Parliament and not through the Scottish Parliament.”
“I have not got time; I am sorry. <BR /> <BR />Ursula von der Leyen, who was in the Republic last week, made some of the most ridiculous claims about the British Government, who have supported Ukraine in a way that no other Government in Europe have and who have never engaged in the activity that was suggested by Ursula von der Leyen.”
“Today, a lot of statements have been made but there has not been a lot of fact behind a lot of what has been said. We have Michelle O'Neill, who walked out of her role as Health Minister — not for six months but for three years — and abandoned her position when we had Bengoa and there were all the problems with nursing that led to the str…”
“I need to deal with the issues first. <BR /> <BR />He referred to the Budget that he produced. No party supported that Budget. The Alliance Party did not support it, because it did not cover policing and prisons. Infrastructure did not support it, because it would not allow it to do the basics of what had to be done.”
“We had a circumstance where Sinn Féin repeated, month after month after month, that there were hundreds of millions to give to the public when that did not exist and when, in reality, Minister Murphy was racking up debt that will roll into next year, which will ensure that that will be a difficult financial year.”
The complete record
Every one of 3,549 lines we hold for Edwin Poots, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 70 of 71.
“One thing I noted when my predecessor was in place was that people regularly called for savings to be made through moving from branded drugs to generic drugs. My predecessor started to do that, and I have done a lot more work on that since coming into office. Therefore, we are spending less money on branded drugs. But people did not always say that that always had to be invested back into drugs. There are massive demands out there. Last year, for example, we needed something like an additional £6 million or £7 million for looked-after, vulnerable children because of additional numbers coming through. We also needed additional money for domiciliary care. So, this does not go back into some pot that says "drugs" and that cannot be used for something else.”
“The methodology for apportioning payments for the 2014-15 financial year has not yet been finalised. <BR /> <BR />It should be noted that the PPRS does not create new funding; rather, moneys will no longer be required to meet an increase in the branded drugs bill and will ensure that the existing budgets are not breached.”
“A pharmaceutical price regulation scheme (PPRS) has been in place for over 50 years. The latest PPRS started on 1 January 2014. A payment of £2·89 million in respect of the first quarter of the scheme — that is for the period 1 January 2014 to 31 March 2014 — was received by the Health and Social Care Board in June 2014. <BR /> <BR />The PPRS is a UK-wide scheme. The quarterly payments under the provisions of the scheme by the pharmaceutical industry are received by the Department of Health in London in the first instance and are then allocated to each of the devolved Administrations. The apportionments are agreed by the devolved Administrations each year. The payment in respect of the period 1 January 2014 to 31 March 2014 was made under the provisions of the apportionment methodology agreed for the 2013-14 financial year.”
“If the Member's party had not closed the Mid-Ulster Hospital and the Whiteabbey Hospital at the same time and sent all of those people to Antrim ED, there might be less pressure on Antrim ED. However, that is the decision that his party made and supported, and the rest of us have to live and work with the consequences of that. <BR /> <BR />Subsequent to that, we have made significant investment in Antrim ED. We have built a new emergency department which is capable of dealing with 90,000 patients per year, we took on 40 more full-time nurses, and a considerable number of consultants are available to the department. So we are doing our best to ensure that the emergency department in Antrim Area Hospital is capable of dealing with the numbers that come through its doors, in spite of decisions made by the Member's party.”
“<BR /> <BR />It was suggested that the October monitoring round could actually be completed for the end of September. I hope that that is the case and that Sinn Féin does not cause any delays in it coming forward earlier rather than later, because it will help us make these very important decisions earlier, which will be to the benefit of the community.”
“<BR /> <BR />We are doing considerable work, and I trust that, while Ms McLaughlin did not support my efforts to get more money at the Committee, her Executive colleagues in Sinn Féin will be more supportive than her. Some of the things we were looking for were money for domiciliary care to ensure that people can be discharged reasonably, money for the social work teams that carry out the discharge, money for radiology so that people will have the proper imaging at the hospital door, money to ensure that we can continue to invest in emergency departments and money for normative nursing. If Sinn Féin does not think that that is money well spent, it is a matter for Sinn Féin to bring to the public. We can really improve our flows in hospitals and ensure that our emergency departments operate more efficiently if we get that support.”
“I happen to know a fair bit about what happened in the Royal yesterday because a relative of mine went through the emergency department (ED): they went in at 11.30 am and were admitted to the ward before 3.00 pm. Sometimes, what you hear in the media and press does not accurately reflect what goes on. <BR /> <BR />There was certainly considerable pressure on the Royal yesterday, with 312 patients attending. It remained constant throughout the day. On average, the Royal sees 256 patients a day, so there was a considerable spike of close to 20% yesterday, and the consequence of that was that it was a very pressurised place. Emergency departments are pressurised places, and that is their nature.”
“The matter has been dealt with quite extensively by the trust that provides the service for her, and I understand that she has particular concerns and worries about the circumstances should there be a long-term power failure. I know about the back-up battery provision that exists should the supply of electricity stop and the plans that have been put in place for a transfer to Thompson House in the event of a very, very long-term electricity cut-off. She has particular concerns and has not been fully reassured by the trust as yet. It is a matter for the trust and Mr Rogers's constituent to work out.”
“I know the young lady very well. She is a very brave young person who has done much in raising awareness of the particular condition from which she suffers. Her fortitude in how she manages that condition is a great encouragement to us all.”
“<BR /> <BR />My Department issues an annual commissioning plan direction to the HSC board and the Public Health Agency. The direction details my priorities and sets standards and targets to be achieved in any given year. In responding to the direction, the HSC board, in consultation with the PHA, produces an annual commissioning plan, which sets out the services to be commissioned.”
“The Act places a duty on the Department to promote an integrated system of health care that is designed to secure improvement in the physical and mental health of people in Northern Ireland and in the prevention, diagnosis and treatment of illness; and social care designed to secure improvement in the social well-being of people in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />The Department does not provide services directly to the public. A total of 17 arm's-length bodies provide or contribute to the provision of health, social care and public safety services. In addition to its responsibilities for setting the policy and legal framework for those services, my Department is responsible for holding those bodies to account for the manner in which they govern themselves and the extent to which they deliver on my priorities.”
“My commitment, my Department's commitment and the commitment of all those who work in Health and Social Care is to provide high-quality services that are safe, effective and person-centred. To achieve that, my Department develops priorities and objectives, and it sets standards for the provision of health and social care in Northern Ireland. We set targets to monitor performance; we listen to the experience of clients, patients and their families; and we ensure that professionals and services are appropriately regulated. <BR /> <BR />The Department's statutory duty in relation to health and social care is set out in section 2 of the Health and Social Care (Reform) Act (Northern Ireland) 2009.”
“We have made changes to a series of things, which is to the good.”
“In terms of where we are, in administration and clerical, if we look at the period between March 2011 and 2014, we see that that has changed; it has moved significantly downwards. In terms of qualified nurses and midwives, we have had a 5·7% increase. In terms of nursing and midwifery support, we have had a 3·1% increase. In terms of consultants, we have had a 15% increase. In terms of allied health professionals, we have had a 12·7% increase. In terms of allied health profession support, we have had a 21·7% increase. The whole-time equivalent number of nurses has moved up well. We will continue to seek to ensure that that is the case. <BR /> <BR />On the other side, administration and clerical has gone down from 12,693 to 11,054. Estate services has dropped from 697 to 694, and support services has dropped from 6,532 to 4,840.”
“The Member has not been specific, so it is impossible to answer that question. We are spending around £1 million on the TYC consultation support that is being provided. The level of skills relating to very specific issues was not available in the HSCB, the Department or the trusts. That is why that support has been provided. It is being provided in the belief that we will save money — more than the £1 million that is spent — as a result of the work that is carried out on our behalf.”
“My vision for HSC workforce planning is to move towards a more integrated, flexible and responsive system that identifies the workforce numbers, skills, values and behaviours that patients and their families need today and into the future.”
“The regional workforce planning group was established to take forward the specific proposals in 'Transforming Your Care' relating to workforce planning. The group is completing the development of a framework for workforce planning that will strengthen HSC workforce planning across the region and inform the basis for taking forward a programme of workforce reviews. <BR /> <BR />Whilst the framework is being finalised, my Department continues to lead on regional workforce planning, and a number of workforce reviews are in progress in relation to nursing, medical specialists and medicine. In addition, workforce planning is an essential element of several other reviews, going forward, such as the review of imaging services. These reviews will provide important evidence to help influence education-commissioning decisions.”
“The more that I can employ people to do front line service jobs, the more I can ensure a better health service for the people, which is what we all want.”
“Well, you see, I would never be one who would try to claim ridiculous things like, "There is no waste in the health service". Can we pinpoint every pound of waste? No, we cannot. Can we reduce waste? Yes, we can. Have we reduced waste? Yes. All of those things are important. We have saved £492 million over the last three years. We are saving a further £170 million this year. If I am asked to live with something less than £140 million, on top of £170 million, we are heading close to saving £0·75 billion over the course of the four years, while bringing down waiting times and waiting lists and increasing the number of nurses and doctors, consultants and allied health professionals. So, yes, I want to continue to drive out waste, because getting rid of it allows me to employ more people to do front line service jobs.”
“Maybe, sometimes, we would do well to appreciate just what we have in the work and skills that are provided through our consultants.”
“So, on one side, we have people arguing, "Well, you shouldn't be giving these consultants bonuses", and, on the other hand, arguing, "But we want all of the services, and those services can only be provided by having the consultants available to do the job". Sometimes — very often, in fact — people are asking for what is impossible. <BR /> <BR />If you want to get the consultants there, you are, on occasions, going to have to pay them to be there. We are competing in a global market for consultants. They are very skilled people, very sought after people worldwide, and we have many consultants here in Northern Ireland who could get jobs anywhere in the world. There is a high demand for people with those skills and capabilities.”
“We froze clinical excellence awards for the past two years. In fact, we are paying out less now for clinical excellence awards than was previously the case. I recognise public concern on this issue, and it is a difficult one. <BR /> <BR />First, these are now recognised as part of people's contracts, so taking clinical excellence awards away from people who have them will almost certainly leave us in the courts to make our case from a very weak base. The second element is that, in many of our hospitals, we are hearing the message that it is difficult to get and to retain consultants. That is particularly evident in the west of the Province, and, indeed, in hospitals such as Causeway.”
“I hope that the October monitoring round comes forward sooner rather than later, because I do not think that it is good for staff morale to have uncertainty on any of these issues. At least if we have some certainty, people will know what the situation is. <BR /> <BR />I am not holding back on giving a pay rise: there will be a rise of some description. Whether it involves pay restraint depends on the envelope delivered to me by my Executive colleagues.”
“The situation is simple: I want to give them more than 1%. I want to give them the 1% plus their incremental pay rise. That is not what has happened in England, where it is either 1% or an incremental rise. I have raised the issue with the Executive twice. <BR /> <BR />At this moment, my budget falls £140 million short. If I were to introduce pay restraint, which would mean that staff would get a 1% rise or their incremental pay rise but not both, that would save £14·9 million. While the gap of £140 million remains unmet, this is an area that will be considered. It is really for the Executive to decide in the October monitoring round how much money I will receive.”
“In the absence of additional funding being provided for health and social care, it is now necessary to consider the implementation of a range of measures designed to address my Department’s current funding gap. One of those is pay restraint. I have asked the Northern Ireland Executive to consider these measures and their potential impact on the citizens of Northern Ireland. The decision on pay will be taken forward following this consideration.”
“The fact that expertise exists in that area and that it has provided care for people in the past and currently will be part of the consideration. The problem with the argument being made for Omagh is that every other mental health facility will be beside an acute hospital. Had the decision been taken under the previous Administration to have an acute hospital in Omagh, as opposed to having the South West Acute Hospital, it would be an easier decision to make. We have a complex set of issues to go through before making a final decision, but we will give everything due and fair consideration.”
“That was a good try by the Member to make the case. We will await the report and the recommendations that come from the Western Trust. Strong and cogent arguments are being made both for a facility in Omagh and for one at the South West Acute Hospital. I am not in a position to make a final decision at this point, but I am in a position to listen to all the arguments that are being put forward and consider them. I know that the issue is important at constituency level, but it is also important at a health level, which has to be where we place our priority.”
“I cannot be precise about when a decision will be taken on the location of the facility. The Health and Social Care Board (HSCB) report on the issue, which I received in May, was inconclusive, and I have now asked the Western Trust to develop a full business case to assist in determining the need for and location of the facility. It will take account of financial and value-for-money considerations, together with the findings of the board's report. After that, the timing of the project will be subject to budgetary availability, and the project will have to be considered alongside all other demands on the capital budget as we move to the next budgetary period, which commences in 2015-16.”
“Given the nature of nursing, the bank system has been used and used successfully for many years. However, capability studies show that it is important that we have an adequate number of nurses in the first place, and the bank supplements that number at weekends, when someone is not available or takes ill or when nurses take holidays or whatever. The bank is merely to supplement the core workforce. I raised the issue of normative nursing when we were discussing the gap in the budget. Normative nursing is something that we are working towards and keen to bring to a conclusion. That was under threat and, I suppose, will remain so until, in the October monitoring round, we see where we stand. However, we are committed to ensuring that we can have what is described as normative nursing, which is approximately 1·3 nurses per patient.”
“That figure moved up to 25 in 2012-13 and to 37 in 2013-14. However, I have approved the commissioning of 61 health visitors for 2014-15 to ensure that there will be sufficient numbers trained to meet the needs of the population. That is a very significant commitment, given the financial pressures that we are under at this time. However, I believe in Transforming Your Care, a key element of which is early intervention. Health visitors are an important, essential and critical component of that. Health visitors are also vital to the work that we are doing in family nurse partnerships and all of that, and that is why I am investing in them.”
“We invest around £30 million in total in the training of doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers. The nursing provision is an important component of that. The Department provides support by way of the payment of university fees to students taking up commissioned places. For 2013-14, that totalled some £14,629,000. In addition, £12,703,000 was paid by the Department to provide non-loan financial support in the form of bursaries to nursing and midwifery students at local universities. The Department also supported the post-registration training costs of nurses by £7,766,972. So, it is fairly evident that we are very supportive of nurses in general, and we will continue to be. <BR /> <BR />Recently, I gave greater support to the training of health visitors. In 2011-12, 18 health visitors were trained.”
“I have given the responsibility for the education and training of nurses to the Chief Nursing Officer so that a much greater nurse-led focus will apply to the further training and upskilling of our nurses, and I think that that is wholly appropriate. Various strands of nursing and specialisms can be developed, along with the further upskilling of nurses who do so much more than they would have done 10 or 20 years ago, and there are still many opportunities. That is work that she will be engaged in.”
“<BR /> <BR />I also observe that HSC is a good employer, providing flexible conditions of service, including part-time working, term working etc that are attractive to graduates. It is inevitable that the highly qualified and motivated health professionals whom we produce are well regarded by other English-speaking health systems across the world. However, we have considerable success compared with other parts of the UK in retaining our health professionals after qualification.”
“<BR /> <BR />Similarly, we have a good record of retaining nurses locally after graduation. In 2011-12, for example, 79% of graduates from the School of Nursing and Midwifery at QUB were employed in Northern Ireland. However, we are not complacent and are working on strategies to encourage nursing graduates to remain here. We invest nearly £8 million a year in supporting the post-registration training of nurses. My Department is also scoping the cost of developing a graduate nurse programme for newly qualified nurses and has commissioned the Northern Ireland Practice and Education Council for Nursing and Midwifery to develop career pathways to support all newly qualified nurses.”
“My Department invests approximately £30 million each year in supporting the training of undergraduate nurses, midwives and doctors at local universities. Beyond graduation, my Department invests significantly in ensuring that health professionals continue to receive the highest quality training and can therefore achieve rewarding careers in Health and Social Care (HSC). The attractiveness of what we offer is reflected in the comparatively high rates of retention of health professional graduates in the system here. The foundation programme for doctors is highly regarded, with 80% of training places filled by graduates from Queen's University Belfast (QUB) medical school. That is a much higher percentage of local medical school graduates than in any other region of the UK.”
“If we stand and look on, we are guilty of doing the same thing as those who stood and looked on in the 1930s, when Hitler had his way and millions of people were slaughtered and subsequently in Russia, with Joseph Stalin, where 20 million people were slaughtered. As decent people, we cannot afford to look on.”
“They are raped and made the slaves of men with multiple wives. It is appalling what is happening. <BR /> <BR />We can stand and look on at all this. We in the Assembly can wring our hands and complain. However, the truth is that the only means of stopping ISIS is force. I welcome the efforts of others to stop ISIS. I welcome the air strikes that took place and stopped the massacre of thousands of people at that point in time. I welcome the efforts that are going on to get Sunni-led countries in particular to make a military intervention and put boots on the ground to stop these people gaining an even greater foothold in that region.”
“That is certainly a very valuable point. I note that another French person has been taken hostage in Algeria just in the last 24 hours. It is clear that countries that pay ransoms have more people taken hostage. I know the hardship and burden that that is. Through mission organisations, I know of people who have been taken hostage. Their policy was not to pay. That is a very hard policy, particularly when it is your loved one who has been taken hostage. However, if you ever go down that route, hostages will be taken over and over again, and ransoms will be demanded over and over again. It is not a sustainable policy. It would be much better if France and some other countries that pay ransoms ceased to do that. <BR /> <BR />Before Mr Humphrey's intervention, I was talking about how women are treated. Teenage girls are being taken.”
“Those who bowed the knee to Jehovah after Jonah took the word of God to those people are still bowing the knee to Jehovah/God, but they are being driven out and persecuted. The persecution that is taking place is absolute anathema to any decent person. The behaviour that is going on includes the ritual beheading of people and the rape of women.”
“We see very ancient peoples, such as the Assyrians and the Yazidis, being driven out. We see the old city of Nineveh — those of us who went to Sunday school all learned about Jonah and his work there. Of course, the scriptures say:”
“There was then a much more Islamic state in Egypt that was much less tolerant of individuals and wanted to introduce laws that went against freedom and human rights. <BR /> <BR />In the first instance, we need to seek to better understand the Middle East. The imposition of Western democracy-style politics in the Middle East and in countries that are largely Islamic has not worked in the past, nor is it likely to work that easily as we look to the future. They have a different concept of life. They look more to leadership. The system of democracy is somewhat alien to them. However, as we look at what has been going on in Iraq and Syria in particular, we see that the level of persecution against a range of people is wholly and totally unacceptable. All decent people should be able to stand up and make that case.”
“When we look back on what has happened over the past number of years in Iraq and Syria, it should cause all of us great concern. Mr Storey has just mentioned the fact that the American Government, at one stage, were keen to go in and back those who were fighting against President Assad. I am thankful that the UK Parliament ensured that the UK did not get involved in that when it appeared that the Government intended to engage in that activity. Even at that point, it was very evident that the people who were fighting against President Assad had the potential to develop an even more militant and vicious regime than the one that existed. We have witnessed that over time; for example, in Egypt, where the Americans backed the removal of the then President Mubarak.”
“We are quite determined to have first-quality services not just in Belfast but right across Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I want to attract the right people to serve in the best facilities in Altnagelvin in both radiotherapy and PCI. We have already done it in PCI. I would be shocked if we do not get the funding in the monitoring round to help us sustain that, so I am going ahead at risk. I have no doubt that we will proceed quickly after the October monitoring round to ensure that there is no delay in the opening of the facility at Altnagelvin, unless people are very silly and decide that Poots is calling everybody's bluff. He is not. We need additional resources to make those things happen. I believe that I have the support of all of the parties, but we need to see the colour of the money in October.”
“We will have additional services to provide at the same time, so health is always going to be a problem for every country in the world. I think we have heard about Scotland facing problems that perhaps have not been as well explained to its public as they should have been. I note that Dr Varadkar has been in trouble with his Prime Minister, Mr Kenny, for shouting about needing more money for health down there. Some things do not change. <BR /> <BR />I think that there is a circumstance that people do not really understand: we are looking at a 6% growth in health each year and at 1·5% to 2% more funding. Finding and squeezing that 4% out each year will be more difficult. It becomes more of a challenge, but our willingness to do the right thing should not be underestimated.”
“I am quite happy to throw the books open. I am very happy for whoever to inspect the finances of the Department of Health, because we are committed to spending all of the money that we have on health, social services and public safety. If money is being misspent, I want to know about it so that we can cut that out. You ask me whether every penny of a budget of £4·7 billion is being spent right. Of course it is not. I want it to be spent right, so if people are aware of things that we are not doing right, let me know, and we will pursue it, seek to reduce that waste and cut it out. I have no doubt that there is still waste there to be cut out. <BR /> <BR />We can reduce the amount of spend required, but we have to do it over time, in a way that is thought through.”
“Could I save £140 million in the health service without hitting all of those things? Yes, I could, but I cannot do it when I am asked to do it in August, because we have already lost four months of the year. <BR /> <BR />We have, for example, reduced the length of stay in hospital. That has been reduced by 10% over the last three years, from 6·9 days to 6·1 days. We have saved tremendous amounts of money on drugs. I hear people saying that, if we go down the route that the drugs companies want us to go down, we could supply all of those other drugs. Yes, we could, but that would mean reducing services from something else. That is a hard decision that we have to make. <BR /> <BR />Considerable amounts of money have been saved. I think Sinn Féin said that it would want an inspection of the books, or something of that kind.”
“I always thought that here was a man who could have spent his life doing conveyancing and giving advice on legal matters, but he saved hundreds of lives. He and Professor McGeown were out there doing work that was transforming in terms of kidney transplants. I want people like that. You know what? If I have to pay £20,000 or £30,000 on top of their wages to get them, I am prepared to do it as opposed to having mediocrity in our medical services. <BR /> <BR />I do not know where I am in my speech, but nonetheless. <BR /> <BR />We are in a difficult financial situation. It did not start three years ago; it started last year when the trusts started to report around August that they were facing greater pressures than they anticipated. They moved from having a £7 million underspend to a £60 million overspend. We have not recovered from that.”
“Last week, I spoke to a couple of young consultants who are working in the primary PCI facility in Altnagelvin. I was absolutely delighted that they chose to work in that facility. They will save life after life after life in the north-west, and I honestly think that they are worth what we pay them. I know that doctors are well paid, but they are the cream of the class at school. It is the brightest young kids who go into the service; I want to attract the brightest young kids into medical service. <BR /> <BR />I diverge slightly, but I think of Dr Jimmy Douglas, who worked in the renal unit of Belfast City Hospital. I am sure that Mrs Dobson has come across him, although I think he has retired. He started out in life to be a lawyer, and he did not like it, so he went back to university having decided to become a doctor.”
“They have been around for years and years, going back to the Sinn Féin Minister's time, I believe. Legally, they are regarded as contracts. So, if I go into a situation of saying that I am not going give people clinical excellence awards, which have been pre-existing, I will be challenged and more than likely defeated in court. I would then have to pay the money out in any event. So, clinical excellence awards are not something that I think are necessarily the best arrangement; I think that we should be asking for a continuum of excellence as opposed to a demonstration of excellence at a particular point in a career. Nonetheless, they are there and they are contracts that we are obliged to honour. <BR /> <BR />We have top-class doctors in Northern Ireland, and we are delivering excellent services and results.”
“That is why it is important that we have quality cancer services across Northern Ireland that are fit for purpose and able to deal with the numbers going through. <BR /> <BR />I have no intention — none whatsoever — of delaying this, but I am dependent upon the October monitoring delivering for me. I did not take on the battle to get more funding for the health service on this occasion without having the intention of winning it. I am very hopeful that I will win the battle so that I can ensure that those services will proceed as planned without any hiccups or delays. <BR /> <BR />Obviously, other people may be silly about it and say that you just have to cut your cloth and live within the budget, and they may raise red herrings about things like clinical excellence awards. Let me say something about clinical excellence awards.”