Edwin Poots
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I call Mr Eóin Tennyson. Again, this is Mr Tennyson's first opportunity to speak as a private Member, so I remind the House that it is convention that a maiden speech be made without interruption. However, if you choose to express views that provoke an interruption, you are likely to forfeit that protection.”
“Sorry — Ms Armstrong. My apologies. <BR /> <BR />That the Assembly could, in some way, get that money out when it is a UK Government responsibility. The UK Government have distributed it directly in Scotland and Wales, not through the Welsh Parliament and not through the Scottish Parliament.”
“I have not got time; I am sorry. <BR /> <BR />Ursula von der Leyen, who was in the Republic last week, made some of the most ridiculous claims about the British Government, who have supported Ukraine in a way that no other Government in Europe have and who have never engaged in the activity that was suggested by Ursula von der Leyen.”
“Today, a lot of statements have been made but there has not been a lot of fact behind a lot of what has been said. We have Michelle O'Neill, who walked out of her role as Health Minister — not for six months but for three years — and abandoned her position when we had Bengoa and there were all the problems with nursing that led to the str…”
“I need to deal with the issues first. <BR /> <BR />He referred to the Budget that he produced. No party supported that Budget. The Alliance Party did not support it, because it did not cover policing and prisons. Infrastructure did not support it, because it would not allow it to do the basics of what had to be done.”
“We had a circumstance where Sinn Féin repeated, month after month after month, that there were hundreds of millions to give to the public when that did not exist and when, in reality, Minister Murphy was racking up debt that will roll into next year, which will ensure that that will be a difficult financial year.”
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“I thank all the Members who participated in the debate. It was heart-warming to hear all the contributions and their strong support for the law. We are a nation of animal lovers, which is to our credit. The desire to have protections for animals is therefore a reasonable position for us to adopt. Sometimes, those things can be a bit conflicted, because, by protecting one animal, you may cause harm to another. In this case, however, it is very clear and easy to identify that the Bill gives added protection to animals that are put in circumstances to protect society, such as in riot situations, drug searches, illegal money-laundering searches and all sorts of other activities. It will also protect animals that look for missing persons.”
“in the definition. <BR /> <BR />Clause 2 provides that the Bill will come into force the day after it receives Royal Assent. <BR /> <BR />In summary, if enacted, the Bill will amend the 2011 Act to provide enhanced welfare protection to service animals while they are on active duty in Northern Ireland. It will give our service animals the recognition that they deserve for the vital role that they fulfil in our society and ensure that the protection that they receive is on a par with that afforded elsewhere in the UK. I commend the Bill to the Assembly.”
“In common with the rest of the UK , the term "constable" does not include members of the naval, military or Royal Air Force police. Prison officers are considered to have the powers of a constable and to be "relevant officers" within the meaning of the new section. <BR /> <BR />Clause 1 provides my Department with the power to make regulations to amend the definition of a "relevant officer". It expressly provides, however, that:”
“The term "constable" is defined in section 43A of the Interpretation Act (Northern Ireland) 1954. It includes:”
“and that the defendant accused of causing the animal's suffering is someone apart from the officer. <BR /> <BR />I stress at this point that the Bill does not remove the right to argue self-defence in relation to attacks on service animals. The protection proposed in the Bill applies to an animal only where it is on duty and under the control of a relevant officer and where the animal is being used in a way that is reasonable in all the circumstances. That ensures that defendants are not deprived of critical legal safeguards. <BR /> <BR />I return to the detail of the Bill. The new section sets out who a "relevant officer" is. This, in turn, determines what a service animal is, as that is an animal used by a relevant officer. A relevant officer is specified as:”
“that caused the suffering to the animal; that the animal was:”
“I am pleased to note that the Minister of Justice shared a copy of my correspondence to her with the Lady Chief Justice and that her ladyship has also noted the position on penalties. <BR /> <BR />I turn to the details of the key clauses. Clause 1 inserts new section 51A into the 2011 Act that provides that section 4(3)(c)(ii) of that Act cannot be relied on in certain circumstances. The circumstances are where the animal to which suffering was caused was:”
“They could not, therefore, be accommodated in the Bill in the current mandate, given its advanced stage. The focus at this juncture must be on ensuring that service animals are provided with the added protection that they deserve now. If Members wish to see tougher penalties introduced, that can be considered separately at a future date. <BR /> <BR />On the basis of the responses to the public consultation, I am aware that there is a perception among respondents that the courts rarely apply the maximum penalties in animal welfare cases. It is for the courts to determine the penalty to be applied, on the basis of the circumstances that prevail. Following the outcome of the consultation exercise, I asked the Minister of Justice to highlight to the Lady Chief Justice the breadth of penalties currently available to the courts.”
“While I, too, am satisfied that the penalties for causing unnecessary suffering to an animal are appropriate, I am mindful that members of the public who responded to the consultation were in favour of much tougher penalties. <BR /> <BR />Members will appreciate that offences and penalties are not matters on which my Department can act alone to make recommendations or set directions; Department of Justice consideration is also required. Initial discussions with that Department indicate that it has reservations about introducing offences and penalties in Northern Ireland that go significantly beyond those in other parts of the United Kingdom. In any event, changes to the animal welfare penalties would require further detailed consideration and a separate public consultation.”
“Those penalties were the toughest in the United Kingdom until 2020, when the rest of the United Kingdom took steps to increase their penalties to bring them in line with what was available here. My Department's consultation made no recommendation to increase the penalties for causing unnecessary suffering to a service animal but sought views on the matter. Most of the organisations that responded supported the current penalties, and that included the Ulster Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (USPCA), the Northern Ireland Companion Animal Welfare Group (NICAWG), Dogs Trust, the Kennel Club and Focus on Animal Law.”
“Most respondents agreed that, where a service dog is injured on duty, there should be no requirement to consider whether the conduct that caused the suffering was carried out in order to protect a person, property or another animal. The vast majority of respondents also supported the proposal for the Department to have power to add to the list of service animals that are to be given enhanced protections. The Bill gives effect to those proposals. <BR /> <BR />The one area in which the Bill does not address the views of most respondents is penalties. Since 2016, the penalty for causing unnecessary suffering has been an unlimited fine and/or up to five years' imprisonment.”
“The consultation also proposed that my Department should have the power to add to list of the animals that are to be provided with enhanced protection. <BR /> <BR />I thank all who responded to the consultation. I appreciate the input, which was given much consideration before the finalisation of the proposals in the Bill. A total of 47 responses were received from a range of organisations, including the PSNI, the Northern Ireland Prison Service, the Search and Rescue Dog Association North, animal welfare organisations and councils. I am pleased to say that 98% of respondents were in favour of the proposal to give additional protection to service animals.”
“<BR /> <BR />To that end, my Department launched a consultation on 17 June 2021 that proposed that added protection should be given to service animals used by the PSNI, the Northern Ireland Prison Service, the Belfast Harbour Police, the Belfast International Airport Constabulary and the Ministry of Defence Police. It is proposed that the added protection should also be given to service animals under the control of persons exercising the power of a police constable or providing a service under the direction of the police. In practice, that would mean that dogs brought in by the PSNI from external organisations would be afforded the same protection during the time that they are carrying out duties to assist the police. For example, that would cover situations in which the PSNI use external search and rescue dogs.”
“Some of our service dogs operate in a passive way, while others are used in a more confrontational manner and carry out work that takes them into unpredictable and dangerous situations. For instance, they are used to track suspects and conduct searches for illegal substances, stolen property, money, firearms and explosive substances. The suspects involved in those illegal activities could do anything to avoid arrest, including harming the service dog on duty. Thankfully, no service dogs have died because of injuries that they have sustained during service. Some dogs have, however, sustained injury in the line of duty, and I want to ensure that they are given enhanced legislative protection. Indeed, one such dog was injured just six weeks ago.”
“A public campaign initiated in 2018 called for that protection to be introduced here. At the time, there was no sitting Assembly, and my Department made it clear that it was a matter that needed to be addressed by a Minister and a functioning Assembly. Following the resumption of devolved government in January 2020, Members tabled a motion that called for legislation similar to Finn's law to be introduced here. The motion was debated at length and agreed by the Assembly on 10 February 2020. I am pleased to say that it received unanimous cross-party support. <BR /> <BR />In Northern Ireland, our service animals are dogs, and they are used by the Police Service of Northern Ireland and the Northern Ireland Prison Service.”
“There was considerable public and political disquiet around how Finn had been treated. A high-profile public campaign was launched, and it culminated in 2019 in new legislation known as "Finn's law", which provides service animals in England and Wales with enhanced welfare protection while on active duty. Similar legislation has been in place in Scotland since 2020. <BR /> <BR />The legislation that applies in the rest of the United Kingdom now provides that, where someone who caused harm to a service animal did so because they were protecting a person, property or another animal is to be disregarded when considering whether the harm was unnecessary. We now have the opportunity to ensure that service animals in Northern Ireland receive the same protection.”
“In Northern Ireland, that factor is contained in subsection (3)(c)(ii) of section 4 of the 2011 Act. Someone charged with harming an animal can rely on that factor to argue that the suffering that they inflicted was necessary and that no offence was therefore committed. <BR /> <BR />That position came under scrutiny in 2016 when Finn, a police dog in England, was stabbed while on active duty. Finn's attacker could have been prosecuted for causing unnecessary suffering to an animal. Taking into account, however, that the attacker might argue that he had harmed Finn because he was protecting himself, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) considered it better to pursue charges for criminal damage. That decision meant that Finn was treated like a piece of police property.”
“This short Bill aims to provide enhanced welfare protection for Northern Ireland's service animals. Before I speak to its content, I will provide some background. <BR /> <BR />Animals in Northern Ireland are provided with a range of substantial protections under the Welfare of Animals Act (Northern Ireland) 2011. The Act provides that it is an offence to cause an animal unnecessary suffering. Legislation containing the same offence exists in other parts of the United Kingdom. A common feature of the offence is that a range of factors may be taken into account by a court when deciding whether the suffering caused to an animal was unnecessary. One such factor is where the person who caused harm to an animal did so because they were protecting themselves, another person or animal or property.”
“I appreciate the commentary from around the Chamber on this issue, and the widespread support for moving the Bill to its next stage. It allows us to engage in the process that will see it to its conclusion. <BR /> <BR />I heard what the one Member who spoke negatively had to say, and I indicate to him that we had a crisis last year, in case he was not aware. That crisis led to staff not being in the office or being utilised for other services. Consequently, the ability to deliver things as speedily as would otherwise have been the case was constricted. Most people acknowledge that, even if that particular Member does not. <BR /> <BR />I thank Members once again for their contributions, and I trust that we can move forward by passing this motion.”
“<BR /> <BR />Regarding minimising the use of the accelerated passage procedure, I have already stated my commitment to detailed Committee scrutiny of legislation that my Department takes forward, and I will continue to take any necessary steps to make sure that the accelerated passage procedure is not unnecessarily sought by it. Members will have the opportunity to raise issues on the detail of the Bill at Second Stage, which is to follow immediately after the debate on this motion. <BR /> <BR />At this juncture, I seek the support of the Assembly for the use of the accelerated passage procedure. I look forward to hearing Members' comments.”
“In the light of the groundswell of support for the Bill, it is only right that I seek to use all the tools at my disposal to see that it be passed in the current mandate. <BR /> <BR />Expedited passage not being granted would pose significant risk to the passage of the Bill. Without accelerated passage, I am concerned that the Bill, owing to time constraints, will not complete its legislative stages in this mandate. That would mean that service animals here would continue to be denied the protection that they deserve, in contravention of the wishes of the public and in marked contrast to the treatment that those animals receive in other parts of the United Kingdom. That position is untenable, given the invaluable work that they carry out on our behalf.”
“Its two clauses propose simple amendments to the Welfare of Animals Act (Northern Ireland) 2011. The amendments mirror the changes that are in place in other parts of the United Kingdom. I am content, therefore, that nothing in the Bill could be regarded as contentious, novel or repercussive. <BR /> <BR />In February 2020, when a motion advocating enhanced protections for service animals was debated at length in the Assembly, it received unanimous support from all five parties. Moreover, 98% of respondents to the public consultation on the Bill's proposals wished to see the legislation enacted, and it is clear that the Bill has overwhelming public and political support. As Members will be aware, there is limited time left in this Assembly mandate.”
“I thank the Chair and members of the Committee for their recognition of the need to expedite the Bill and for their support in seeking the Assembly's approval for accelerated passage. I also appreciate the support of Executive colleagues, who have agreed that the Bill can be progressed in this way. <BR /> <BR />My reasons for seeking accelerated passage are as follows. The Bill addresses a legislative anomaly that arose when the Assembly was not sitting. That has resulted in Northern Ireland being the only part of the United Kingdom where service animals do not have specific welfare protections. The anomaly was one of the first matters brought to my attention as Minister when the Assembly reconvened. Since then, I have received repeated requests from stakeholders to remedy the situation. <BR /> <BR />The Bill is short and uncontroversial.”
“I welcome the opportunity to address the Assembly on this motion. I appreciate that the use of accelerated passage is not something to be sought routinely, and I do not usually do so. When taking forward draft primary legislation, my preference is to subject it to the full Committee procedure to ensure detailed clause-by-clause scrutiny. My decision to seek accelerated passage in this case is not one that I have taken lightly. I am, however, convinced that there are compelling grounds to depart from the normal procedure in this instance. Therefore, I will explain, as required under Standing Order 32(4), why I seek accelerated passage and the consequences if it is not granted. <BR /> <BR />I have appeared before the Committee for Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs to outline my rationale, as required under Standing Order 32(3).”
“I do not know the exact details of the full-time complement of the secretariat, but I will be happy to get that information and provide it to the Member. I am sure that the Member will do his own work to identify the complement of the North/South secretariat.”
“Northern Ireland is not less ambitious. We have taken scientific advice. If the Member wishes to reject that advice, that is a matter for the Member and whoever she can persuade. I tend to take the scientific advice. I also tend to take the advice of the Office of Legislative Counsel (OLC), which advises Members on legislation and legislative processes, and it has described the Member's Bill as "unworkable" and "unaffordable". If the Member wants to ignore the scientific and, indeed, legislative expertise and charge ahead with something that she believes to be a crowd-pleaser, it is a matter for individuals to choose. What we can do is highlight the issues that have been raised with us and with the Executive by members of the CCC and the OLC: they are people with real expertise and knowledge on the issue.”
“Thus far, young people have had limited effects from COVID-19. They have clearly been transmitters of it, however, and they can transmit it to people who are much more vulnerable. Therein lies a substantial part of the problem. The significance of the booster vaccination — the fact that our immunity can go from somewhere around 40% to well over 90% — was mentioned. I am glad that Northern Ireland is now beginning to pick up on getting the booster programme rolled out. It seemed to be a bit slow: 10 days ago, 300,000 people who were eligible for it still had not received it. Of course, many people are coming under the eligibility criteria now. We need to push ahead and get the booster vaccination to as many people as possible before Christmas and particularly to people with vulnerabilities. I encourage people to do that.”
“He was therefore able to expose the falsehoods that certain people were expressing on behalf of French fishers. Jersey is very keen to engage in jaw-jaw as opposed to war-war, and France would be better engaging in jaw-jaw as well.”
“Interestingly enough, the Chief Minister of Jersey indicated that cutting the power supply would not be a big issue for the people of Jersey, because they could just reactivate their coal-fired power station, which they were preparing to do. Of course, that would not be very good for the climate, because Jersey uses nuclear power that comes from France, but that would have been a decision imposed on Jersey by the futility and stupidity of the French Government, their aggressive attitude to Jersey and to fishermen, and their demand to have their fishers come into waters that they had not previously used. The Chief Minister of Jersey had documentation that went back years that showed specifically the boats that had used Jersey's waters.”
“I said that it was like scoring a super goal in a football match but then letting in six goals. We need to ensure that we can remove the six goals against us so that we can import our trees, our plants, our seed potatoes and the beef that goes on for further processing: I could go on. We need to address so many aspects of the protocol that are damaging to the economy.”
“I thank the Member for the eloquent speech, although I am not sure where the question was. Nonetheless, on the protocol issues, a very significant element of why Northern Ireland is doing well is our very prosperous food industry. Over the pandemic, people have voted with their feet on from where they acquire their food, saying, "We want local food". That is why beef prices have risen from around £3·30 a kilo to £4 a kilo over the period. People recognise the quality and the provenance of locally produced goods, so the same applies to milk and many other products. Having a strong and very sophisticated agri-food economy therefore put us in a better place when it came to recovering from COVID. <BR /> <BR />I have always indicated that there was an advantage from the protocol but that that advantage was outweighed by the disadvantages.”
“To have all our energy and most of our food produced here is something that many parts of the world would envy, if the other parties allowed us to produce our own food, that is, instead of having it and the associated carbon produced somewhere else, perhaps in the southern hemisphere.”
“Instability leads to instability in prices, which leads to significant hikes in prices, such as those that we are experiencing. Were we producing our own renewable energy, we would have price stability.”
“There was considerable discussion on that subject. A lot of people look at climate change and see the actions that need to be taken as a threat. Many of us look at it as an opportunity. Our nation is not rich in coal, oil and gas — fossil fuels — so I am not too excited about not being able to utilise those fuels. We are rich in wind energy, and in tidal and wave energy, if that can be harnessed. We are also rich in animal nutrients, which can be converted into renewable energy. We have a whole series of opportunities that we need to grasp as we move away from fossil fuels. Any policy that is reliant on oil coming from the Middle East and gas coming from Russia for sustainable energy is flawed. Those places tend to be somewhat unstable at various times.”
“Yes. We are supportive of that. Big ticket issues, such as COVID and how we address the issues arising out of COP26, could and should be dealt with more expeditiously. Having six-monthly standing meetings, where the agenda can be agreed quite a long time beforehand, is not necessarily the best way forward. That is why the proposals were put forward and accepted by the members present.”
“Yes, it was. Obviously, COVID is a topic of conversation that is always present, and it was present in the discussions as well. It has been interesting to see how some regions and countries have done better at various times but then seem to fall back again. Wales, for example, did very well in the early part of the year, but, in the later part of the year, things have not gone so well. At one point, we were behind Scotland in the number of cases; we are now ahead of Scotland again. It seems to ebb and flow because of how the different regions have conducted themselves. Interestingly, Scotland, which has had pretty tough legislation on COVID throughout, chose not to go down the route of having COVID vaccine passports for cafes and cinemas. Perhaps the passport parties should reflect on that.”
“Encouragement does not involve trying to impose something on people who do not want it to be imposed on them. Irish dancing, for example, is enjoyed across the community. If there were a bit less politics around the Irish language, perhaps it would be utilised more broadly across the community as well. There is too much politics in it. Perhaps some Members should reflect on that.”
“Languages thrive when people want to use them. We have found that in other places. Indeed, the legislation that was brought in in the Republic of Ireland did not assist the language. Many people would argue that it was to the detriment of the language. I know that a lot of Members in the House have a strong desire for legislation, and that desire is reflected in a section of our community. I suggest that the focus should be on how they encourage people to participate.”
“Northern Ireland's contributions account for 0·04% of greenhouse gases, whereas China has 53% of the coal-fired power stations in the world. Therein lies the problem. If the big players do not step up to the plate, that undermines the work of everybody else. I am not saying that we should not do that work, but that considerably undermines it.”
“That was not the key focus of this summit. There is certainly significant potential for it to be the key focus of the next summit. The issue took over a lot of the conversation and discussion at the summit, however. The Governments who were at the summit are totally committed to reforestation and to moving away from the use of coal, particularly in power stations. They are committed to reaching net zero and taking the actions that will help us to achieve that. <BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, the biggest emitters in the world were not at the summit. In fact, the biggest emitters in the world were not at COP26 either. Therein lies part of the problem. If you want to deal with a problem, those who make the biggest contribution to that problem need to come to the table and step up to the plate.”
“Both have set a net zero target in accordance with the Paris agreement. The United Kingdom is considerably further down the road towards achieving net zero than the Republic of Ireland, which has a much greater challenge. As part of the United Kingdom, Northern Ireland is cooperating with achieving that target. We have therefore taken advice from the Climate Change Committee (CCC). It is a specialist committee that is renowned worldwide and is made up of scientists who are held in high regard in that field and bring a lot of quality to the argument. We should take major cognisance of what they have to say about climate change.”
“Minority languages were used extensively throughout the meeting. Of course, a minority language is used extensively in Wales. Therefore, that got a fair bit of attention during the meeting. There was a lot of interest from all the regions in how they can maintain and keep those languages alive, including from the UK Government in relation to the Cornish language.”
“Minister Hargey led on IML, and she engaged in the meeting as the Minister who deals with that issue. Extensive discussions took place on indigenous, minority and lesser-used languages.”
“I raised the protocol during the meeting, and I also raised it extensively outside the meeting with Minister Gove and other Ministers. It is important that the message continues to be put that the protocol as it currently exists is damaging to Northern Ireland and that we need to find a way through that not only safeguards the European Union's single market but protects the integrity of the internal UK market. Many of us believe that both can be achieved, and we are working towards that goal. I encourage others to work towards that goal because that will deliver the best economic outcomes for everyone in Northern Ireland.”
“All those things will be significant contributors to thriving economies across all these jurisdictions and will ensure that the economies can continue to deliver for people and to deliver investment in the whole climate change agenda. They will be enabled to do that by making good utilisation of the rich resources that we have on our doorsteps and, indeed, in our seas.”
“Yes, there was extensive discussion on that, and I recommend that the next British-Irish Council meeting focus on it, be it at the meeting or on the periphery of the meeting. It was a very significant topic of conversation, and a lot of the conversation was on renewable energy, the opportunities that exist for renewable energy on these islands and the ability of these islands to capture that energy from offshore and, indeed, onshore sources, but particularly the offshore opportunities. We discussed issues around hydrogen and the opportunity to utilise it better, and we discussed issues around biofuel and biomethane.”
“Following a verbal report on that meeting, the Council held a further discussion on IML languages and early years policy during the summit meeting in order to reflect on challenges and opportunities for policy approaches in that area. The Council also took the opportunity to discuss the recent work of the Council across all its sectors and to take note of the ongoing collaborative work being carried out by officials. <BR /> <BR />The Ministers took note of the progress made in the implementation of proposals agreed at the thirty-fifth BIC summit in Northern Ireland in June 2021, including the formation of a senior officials group and adoption of a protocol for holding extraordinary summit meetings where they are needed. Finally, the Council noted that the next BIC summit will be hosted by the Government of Guernsey.”
“A full list of the delegates who attended the summit is attached to the copy of the statement provided to Members. <BR /> <BR />The Council reflected on the latest political developments across the jurisdictions and took the opportunity to engage on a number of topics of mutual interest, including the economy, trade, ongoing relations with the EU and the twenty-sixth UN Climate Change Conference of the Parties (COP26). Ministers discussed the continued impact of the COVID-19 pandemic and the progress of post-pandemic recovery programmes. <BR /> <BR />In advance of the summit meeting, Ministers with particular responsibility for IML languages met to discuss IML language acquisition in the early years.”
“The Government of Guernsey were represented by the Chief Minister, Deputy Peter Ferbrache. The Government of Jersey were led by the Chief Minister, Senator John Le Fondré. The Irish Government were led by an Taoiseach, Micheál Martin. The Isle of Man Government delegation was led by the Deputy Chief Minister, Jane Poole-Wilson MHK.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I wish to make the following statement on the thirty-sixth summit of the British-Irish Council (BIC), which took place on Friday 19 November 2021. The summit was hosted by the Welsh Government. The heads of the delegation were welcomed by the First Minister of Wales, the Rt Hon Mark Drakeford MS, who provided the opportunity to use indigenous, minority and lesser-used (IML) languages in the summit meeting. I attended the meeting to represent the First Minister. Minister Hargey represented the deputy First Minister, and junior Minister Middleton also attended. They have agreed that I make the statement on their behalf. The Scottish Government delegation was led by the Rt Hon Nicola Sturgeon MSP. The UK Government were led by the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, the Rt Hon Michael Gove MP.”