Edwin Poots
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I call Mr Eóin Tennyson. Again, this is Mr Tennyson's first opportunity to speak as a private Member, so I remind the House that it is convention that a maiden speech be made without interruption. However, if you choose to express views that provoke an interruption, you are likely to forfeit that protection.”
“Sorry — Ms Armstrong. My apologies. <BR /> <BR />That the Assembly could, in some way, get that money out when it is a UK Government responsibility. The UK Government have distributed it directly in Scotland and Wales, not through the Welsh Parliament and not through the Scottish Parliament.”
“I have not got time; I am sorry. <BR /> <BR />Ursula von der Leyen, who was in the Republic last week, made some of the most ridiculous claims about the British Government, who have supported Ukraine in a way that no other Government in Europe have and who have never engaged in the activity that was suggested by Ursula von der Leyen.”
“Today, a lot of statements have been made but there has not been a lot of fact behind a lot of what has been said. We have Michelle O'Neill, who walked out of her role as Health Minister — not for six months but for three years — and abandoned her position when we had Bengoa and there were all the problems with nursing that led to the str…”
“I need to deal with the issues first. <BR /> <BR />He referred to the Budget that he produced. No party supported that Budget. The Alliance Party did not support it, because it did not cover policing and prisons. Infrastructure did not support it, because it would not allow it to do the basics of what had to be done.”
“We had a circumstance where Sinn Féin repeated, month after month after month, that there were hundreds of millions to give to the public when that did not exist and when, in reality, Minister Murphy was racking up debt that will roll into next year, which will ensure that that will be a difficult financial year.”
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“Mr Chambers raises a valid point. All of the pedigree societies are being impacted on by the protocol. The integrity of the product that they sell is being impacted on because of the very issue that he raises about UK tags having to be changed. Again, that is unacceptable, and, again, it is something that we are raising, but it demonstrates that we have raised numerous issues with the protocol. The problem is not that there are issues with the protocol; the problem lies at its heart. It is wrong, and it needs to go.”
“One might expect that from republicans, because they do not mind wreaking damage on the wider community for their own ends, but the Alliance Party is a co-conspirator and cheerleader for things like the ponies being needlessly locked up, pets having medical interventions that are not required, the food in your cupboard costing more, supplies to business being interrupted and parcel deliveries being detrimentally impacted. That is what the Alliance Party and the republicans are delivering, and I want to see it removed.”
“First, not once have I authorised any infrastructure. This has been imposed by Westminster and has been paid for by Westminster to placate the demands of Dublin and, indeed, the pro-protocol parties — Sinn Féin, the SDLP, Alliance and the Green Party. As a result, every consumer will feel the pain of the protocol. Worse still, not satisfied with the onerous burdens and checks that are being imposed, those parties want more, because they want the rigorous implementation of it.”
“That is not something that I am aware of or have engaged in; I have taken no role in that nor participated in it. As a consequence of the protocol, the estimations now are that, when the grace period ends, there will be 15,000 checks a week. That will have a damaging impact on every nationalist, every unionist and every other person in Northern Ireland, so we would do better not to have any new buildings constructed and not to have any checks on food that will end up on tables in Northern Ireland, having come from Great Britain.”
“Ultimately, the protocol needs to go. I am firmly of the view that any product that enters Northern Ireland as its end destination should not go under any checks. There are practical solutions for products that enter the EU single market via the Republic of Ireland. There should be no barriers to trade within the UK internal market. Any barriers are wholly unacceptable and go against the requirement of unfettered trade that is underpinned in the Act of Union.”
“With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will group questions 1 and 5. <BR /> <BR />Under the terms of the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020, which embodies the Northern Ireland protocol, Northern Ireland is required to align with the European Union’s sanitary and phytosanitary (SPS) rules, an agreement made by the UK and the EU that was not supported by any unionist party in Northern Ireland and runs contrary to the Belfast Agreement of 1998. <BR /> <BR />I am opposed to the detrimental impact of those additional rules on Northern Ireland businesses and consumers, specifically the barriers that they place on the movement of animals, goods and products from Great Britain to Northern Ireland. I will therefore continue to engage with ministerial colleagues and the UK Government to press that position.”
“We can move forward confidently and in a way that will ensure that people who have many benefits from being part of the United Kingdom and of that great Union will continue to have those benefits, which are not available elsewhere. We need to recognise that they are not available elsewhere and that doing anything other than being in this great Union will ensure that people will have less disposable income, less access to free healthcare and so many other things. <BR /> <BR />I am confident of a bright future for Northern Ireland within the Union. I celebrate the 100 years that we have had and look forward to leaving a Northern Ireland that is a great place for future generations to enjoy.”
“I am a proud Northern Ireland man. All of its people are tremendous, friendly, kind and caring people. The scourge of the Troubles, which was inflicted for 25 years, was a disaster for Northern Ireland and for everyone in Northern Ireland. Not one of the bullets fired in the Troubles was justified. No one deserved to lose their life, and we can never return to that. <BR /> <BR />Let us look forward to a further 100 years. Others will achieve greatness, but hundreds, thousands and millions of our people will continue to be caring and loving people who are generous to others in need. Northern Ireland has had many great things to show and has many great things to come.”
“Harry Ferguson was a great inventor. My dad bought a farm off him many years ago, and it is something that we really cherish. Poets such as Seamus Heaney, writers such as C. S. Lewis, actors such as Liam Neeson, footballers such as George Best and Pat Jennings, snooker players such as Alex Higgins and Dennis Taylor and motorcycle racers such as Joey Dunlop and young Jonathan Rea have all demonstrated that Northern Ireland people can achieve greatness. They have made great contributions here and in many other parts of the world.”
“I appreciate the opportunity that the Assembly has taken to mark the 100th anniversary of Northern Ireland. It has been a period when we have had many good, positive things and many people who have excelled.”
“I recognise that a fundamental review of the legislation and the fund is necessary. That review needs to deal with a wide range of complex matters, some of which Members have raised today, and will, by necessity, take place over a longer time frame. I brought the Bill forward to lift what is there already and enable it to continue. I will ensure that the matters raised today that are not covered in the Bill, such as extension beyond the currently named locations, are included in the scope of a future review, so that they can be addressed. My officials and I look forward to working closely with the AERA Committee as it begins the detailed and important scrutiny of the Bill. I commend the Bill to the House.”
“My colleague Jim Shannon was one of the leading people to bring the issue of one-armed bandits to the attention of the Westminster Parliament. They were in many bookmakers' shops, and people lost massive amounts of money on them. Thankfully, he had some success in bringing that forward. Therefore, whilst I respect what Mr Carroll says, this is not the appropriate legislation to deal with it. That legislation would need to be brought forward by the Minister for Communities.”
“It is not a pursuit that I have ever engaged in, and, frankly, I do not understand those who do. I know that it can be addictive, but the bookmaker always wins ultimately. In essence, it is the bookmaker who will pay this, not anybody else. That will ensure that the industry of equestrianism — the keeping of horses, having high standards for the participation of those horses and providing appropriate support and all that — which is entirely different from the gambling side of it, is maintained. That is the situation with that, and it is not something that we can conflate with the issue of gambling, because that is dealt with by a separate Department — the Department for Communities — which has the responsibility for gambling and gambling legislation. I believe that it needs to be addressed and renewed.”
“I thank the Members who spoke on the Bill and for the widespread support across the House for the legislation moving to the next stage. <BR /> <BR />I appreciate the points that have been raised by Members. Some raised the issue of the ability of dog tracks to draw down funding of this nature, which is not available at this time. The Bill really picks up what was available under previous legislation, which ceased to happen after the sale of one of the racecourses. Consequently, both racecourses lost out. We did not think that that would be the case, but, in 2019, we were informed that, because of state aid issues in the European Union, Downpatrick would lose out as well the Down Royal. <BR /> <BR />Mr Carroll raised the issue of gambling per se.”
“The funding that was available through the levy on the bookmakers helped to enable the continuation of the racecourses. As a result of losing the levy, the racecourses have been put under significant financial pressure. Whilst it may not be altogether popular with the bookmakers that they have to provide that funding, nonetheless, it is an important part of the horse racing industry, because the racecourses can be maintained, safely and appropriately, in a safe condition for the welfare of the animals and for the safety of the staff and the public who are on-site. <BR /> <BR />The legislation is about ensuring that we are capable of continuing to provide support to the racecourses. It is a relatively short and simple piece of legislation, and I appeal to the House to support it.”
“I have been looking at introducing the Horse Racing (Amendment) Bill for some time now. Over the last number of years, the two main horse racing tracks, Down Royal and Downpatrick racecourses, have received a levy from the turf accountants at those courses. Consequently, over time, that has been impacted as a result of the sale of Down Royal racecourse. The previous legislation specifically named the two racecourses as opposed to ensuring that, if there was ever a change of ownership of them, that change would be covered. Consequently, we have not been able to provide funding or to ensure that the levy has been disbursed to the racecourses. <BR /> <BR />One can imagine the issues with that in that it costs considerable amounts of money to maintain and run a racecourse each year.”
“Getting the fire out as quickly as possible is probably all you can do. There is a release of particle emissions. A very fine particulate comes from the material being burnt. It gets ingested into people's lungs and, because it is such fine material, it is very difficult to get rid of. These fires are a health hazard for people; let us be absolutely clear about that. It is another reason why they should not happen.”
“That is a good question, but one that you need to put to the Health Minister, as he has responsibility for the Fire and Rescue Service. Previously in my career, I had that task, and I know that the Fire and Rescue Service, like everyone else, has its funding challenges. However, it has an excellent team of people on the ground who do magnificent work, not just in this type of situation but in many others, such as road traffic incidents and others where the Ambulance Service needs helps to rescue people. The range of work covered by the Fire and Rescue Service, and its skill and innovation in dealing with those problems, is probably not as well recognised as it should be. I, for one, greatly appreciate the work that it carries out for us.”
“I encourage them to do that, and it is something that needs to happen on a much more frequent basis. I would like to see people punished for this awful crime, because it is an awful crime that has been committed against other human beings and against the environment.”
“As I indicated, whilst I support a strong legislative base, and I am happy to amend legislation to make it tougher, you can only enforce something where a case is presented. The difficulty, about which we need to be realistic, is that many individuals who engage in that activity do it away from the gaze of any other individual. It is tricky, in the first instance, to identify the individuals who engage in establishing the fires. However, it is worth our while to have a conversation with other bodies that are involved in enforcement to identify, for example, what level of evidence the courts require to prosecute someone successfully. I will not hold back, whatsoever, any prosecution that NIEA, Forest Service or any other agency brings forward.”
“We probably need to put our own house in order in the first instance. Where there are cross-border fires, which do happen occasionally, the level of cooperation is fantastic. That is not an issue. Where there are resources, either in the Republic of Ireland, for a fire in Northern Ireland, or, for a fire in the Republic of Ireland, in Northern Ireland, they are already available. There is already good, close cooperation. I will always encourage that because it is absolute common sense. It is not a political thing; it is a practical thing. I have every intention of helping neighbours and, indeed, of calling on neighbours when I need help in circumstances like those.”
“In all that we do, whether it is through the NIEA, Forest Service, PSNI, Fire and Rescue Service or local groups or local authorities, we must do it together and ensure that we respond in the best way possible. The issue is not going to go away, and we are not going to eliminate it, but we can certainly mitigate it and, in particular, the damage that it does.”
“I will bring you back down to earth, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />The group identifies the risks and identifies the mitigations that it can carry out to reduce those risks. It looks at how it can respond to fires and how teams can work as multi-agency teams in their response. There is a whole series of things. Mr Butler mentioned education, and that will be a key part of it.”
“Earlier in the year, the Fire Service indicated that, over the past 10 years, about £4·5 million has been spent on gorse fires. Therefore, we really need to ensure that we minimise the amount of public money expended on them. More importantly, we need to minimise the damage done to the environment and reduce the risk to individuals who could get caught in these fires and, indeed, the risk to the personnel putting them out.”
“When you get it out, it can flare up again, so you can see the work that was involved. <BR /> <BR />It was a warm day, there was the heat of the fire, and the fact that personnel had to wear their uniforms and personal protective equipment. That led to an immense amount of work being carried out by those individuals. Therefore, we cannot speak highly enough of their efforts. We need to ensure that they have as much equipment as possible to enable them to do their work as safely as possible. They were very challenging circumstances, but a lot of people rose to them. We talk about heroes in the context of COVID; these people were heroes working up the mountains.”
“Fires in places such as these mountains are very difficult. Last year, we spent £180,000 on all-terrain vehicles, which were used at the weekend to ferry Fire and Rescue Service personnel to the locations. The Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service has ultimate responsibility; it does not lie with my Department. However, one of the things that we could have done with last Saturday was a helicopter to do water drops on the Kilkeel side of the mountain. We had anticipated getting helicopter support from Ireland and from GB, but unfortunately, those became unavailable. The fact that there is a road leading up to a quarry enabled water to get so far, but fire personnel ended up having to beat the fire out with shovels. That is how crudely it was done. Hundreds of acres of land were on fire, and they were beating it out with shovels.”
“<BR /> <BR />We need really good cooperation from all sides, and we need to be very firm to ensure that the law is strong. We also need to find a means of enforcing it, however, so that, rather than just having something on paper, it can be demonstrated to the public that the law is working and that people are being prosecuted for such activities.”
“They might have a wee campfire or a barbecue and do not extinguish it properly. Those are the people who really need to recognise the harm that they can do as a result of their day trip to a wild and remote region. We need everyone to pull together and recognise the harm that is done. <BR /> <BR />The only good thing that has come out of this is the fact that the public are now much more aware that those fires take place. I mentioned that there have been four fires of significance in the past two weeks. We drove five minutes just over the hill from where I was on Saturday to an area just above Tollymore, where 6 hectares of young forest had been damaged. We are trying to get more trees planted, yet, because of someone's irresponsibility, another forest has been destroyed and set back.”
“It is not that steps have not been taken. Many steps have been taken, and the public should know better. There are those on the farming side who deliberately burn off gorse to allow for fresh growth to come through. That does not take place at this time of year. If they are doing that, they are breaking the law and should be prosecuted. I make it very clear: any farmer who engages in that at this time of year is breaking the law and should be prosecuted. <BR /> <BR />As for the general public, I have to say that most people who go up the mountains or go walking in those areas have a love for the environment, appreciate it and are responsible. Others sometimes take a notion to do those things. They go up in their flip-flops. They perhaps drop cigarette butts that are not extinguished.”
“Ultimately, dozens and dozens of men and women were up those mountains putting their life at risk to put out the fires. This is the ultimate wrong: lives being put at risk as a consequence of such behaviour.”
“I have asked officials to look at the legislation to identify whether enough is being done. My suspicion is that not enough is being done in terms of dissuasion. One of the problems that we have is that those places are remote by nature, with not a lot of people around, so catching someone doing it, either purposely or recklessly, is extremely difficult, as is reaching the bar for prosecution, and therein lies the difficulty. We can have tough-looking legislation, but, if we cannot catch the individuals doing it, that is a different matter. We perhaps need to speak to the judiciary about the evidence base for such a circumstance to ensure that we can demonstrate to the public that there is punishment for such activity. <BR /> <BR />As I indicated, it is not a victimless crime.”
“We in Northern Ireland want to play our part in the climate change challenge. That is why I indicated some time ago that I was bringing forward legislation, which is now sitting with the Executive. I hope to present it in the House in the very near future. It will ensure that Northern Ireland plays its part fully in achieving its contribution to net zero for the United Kingdom by 2050. It will also ensure that we do not decimate the largest section of the economy: the agri-food sector. I hope that the Executive will have the opportunity to progress that legislation and allow me to come to the House with the energy and purpose that is required; we really need to drive those things forward. We need to move swiftly, so I do not want any delay in the Executive when bringing it forward.”
“The other element is that there is absolutely no doubt that it released substantial amounts of carbon. It will not be as good at sequestering carbon going forward; it will take many years of rainfall for that peat to get back to a reasonable condition.”
“As I indicated in the statement, there are species that are particular to the Mournes. A full assessment has not been done, but all the indications are that it will take many years for some of those species to come back to where they would have been. Meadow pipits, for example, are ground-nesting birds that have been laying and hatching eggs. Sadly, it is probable that hundreds of fledgling birds and eggs have been destroyed as a consequence of the fire; there was no means of escaping it. That is appalling. We would love to see more red grouse up on those hills than is currently the case. There are some pairs. We need to look at other areas where good management has encouraged red grouse back. The species damage is extensive. The gorse will grow again; it will probably recover more quickly.”
“As well as having trained staff, the Department holds specialist all-terrain vehicles and combined air and foam dispensing units. These are made available to support and extend the Fire and Rescue Service's firefighting capacity, particularly on hostile terrain like the Mournes. Considerable investment has been made, and modern technologies that we can utilise to identify smoke at an early point may also be of assistance to us. The only thing that I will say is that these fires, once they start, spread so rapidly. As I indicated earlier, it takes many years to recover the damage; it takes only seconds to cause it.”
“We have various types of technology that can assist in this, but, ultimately, stopping the fires happening in the first instance is the most important thing. Over recent years, DAERA has purchased equipment, which is held by Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service, for immediate use, including all-terrain vehicles. Some of these are fitted with wildfire suppression units, knapsack sprayers and drip torches. The NIEA is a member of the European wildfire network and can access advice and support during wildfire incidents from experts across Europe, and further afield if necessary. We will work very hard with others in doing this. <BR /> <BR />Forest Service has significantly stepped up its surveillance and patrol programme to help to reduce fire incident levels and for early detection purposes to initiate an effective response.”
“The Member raises a valid point about barbecues being one of the potential risks to peatlands.”
“We will certainly look at that. As the Member knows, one of the things that I have requested since coming into office is a peatlands strategy, and that will come forward in the very near future, hopefully. How we manage our peatlands is absolutely critical. We have the whole climate change issue, and Members know that I have climate change legislation that I wish to bring forward. I am waiting for the Executive's approval to do that. They know that we are doing this peatlands strategy. We want to ensure that we maximise our protection of peatlands, because they are critical to capturing carbon. If managed incorrectly, they are also big emitters of carbon, so we must ensure that we are utilising them correctly, capturing that carbon and ensuring that these wildfires do not take place.”
“Again, I look forward to the recommendations coming from the multi-agency group, and I am sure that Minister Swann and I, and any other Minister who might be involved, will respond well to whatever recommendations are brought before us from that body.”
“I thank the Member for a lot of valuable points. The community response that Mr McGrath mentioned was absolutely incredible. I know that a pizzeria in Belfast sent 40 pizzas up to the fire personnel. They had so much food sent to them that, had it not been for the fact that they were working so hard, they would have been rolling back down the mountain. It was a demonstration of the appreciation and goodwill towards not only the Fire and Rescue Service, which was leading on it, but lots of other services, which I mentioned at the outset of the statement. They were all working hard to ensure that this was brought under control. <BR /> <BR />The issue of education is a critical one.”
“The Member makes an entirely reasonable request, and I thank him for his comments. We will work closely with the National Trust in particular, which has responsibility for a considerable part of the upper Mournes, to identify the scale of the damage, the consequence of that damage, the recovery plan for it and how best we can invest resource to ensure that the recovery happens as quickly as possible. That said, whatever human interventions we do now will take many years to manifest themselves, whereas the human intervention of lighting that fire took seconds to do the harm.”
“Good management is the way forward, and, in some of those areas, the management is not as good as I would like to see.”
“<BR /> <BR />When I was in the Mournes, I announced a further £2 million for similar schemes for environmental NGOs. I want to raise the plastic bag levy, and that amendment will come before the House. The levy money will go back to environmental NGOs, so we will see a substantial increase if the House supports me on that. <BR /> <BR />We recognise that funding is important. It is important to be well resourced. However, the biggest issue in the heathlands is management. Undergrazing and overgrazing are problems, so we need to manage that side of it well. We also need to look at the firebreaks. I mentioned Glenwherry. There has been a significant uplift in the numbers of ground-nesting birds in that area as a consequence of the actions that have been taken. Sometimes, folk suggest wilding as a way forward: it is not.”
“If only everything in life was as simplistic as you paint it, things would be so easily resolved. Wildfires take place over areas of expansive territory, and, therefore, the management of those areas is critical. That is why I set up the group in March this year, having visited areas that were damaged previously. I note that previous Ministers did not do that. In any event, we have set that up so that we can work across agencies. <BR /> <BR />I was in the Mournes on Wednesday. It was stunningly beautiful. We looked at some £140,000 worth of funding that had been spent and added to by the National Trust to enhance the pathways in the Mournes. The pathways act as a firebreak and reduce erosion in the area, so it is money well spent.”
“We have done that at Glenwherry hill, which the Department is responsible for a considerable part of, in conjunction with the local agriculture community. The result has been that there have not been significant gorse fires on that terrain, which is similar. It is much better to lose 2 metres of stripes as opposed to losing hundreds and hundreds of hectares of gorse land, especially given the damage that is caused to the heath underneath it, the peat, the wildlife and the biodiversity and all that. We can do that work in February and September in order to ensure that we protect the environment, not damage it.”
“At the request of Mr Frew, who is not in the Chamber, I visited North Antrim last year when there was a particularly bad fire in a place called Altarichard. I think that around 360 hectares was damaged there. Individuals there made it very clear that firebreaks would have made all the difference. They also discussed undergrazing and overgrazing. If the gorse is not grazed, it dries off, and, particularly over the wintertime, it dies. When you get to the springtime, before the fresh shoots come through, you are left with all this dry stuff. Over the last couple of weeks, we have had fairly dry and windy weather. That gorse is tinder dry. If it is lit, the fire will go all over the place, and the only way to stop it is to have firebreaks.”
“While I am glad today to be able to report that the fire is under control, it both angers and saddens me that it happened in the first place and could have been avoided. DAERA will continue to play its part in the response to the fire and in the recovery plan. I know that the Northern Ireland Executive and my Department will send out strong messages about personal responsibility for protecting our wonderful landscape and environment and will work with DAERA on all the future challenges that we face in doing so. <BR /> <BR />In closing, I once again commend the work of all those involved and the local community, which supported their efforts. We are indebted to them, as is our environment.”
“We cannot afford to take our environment for granted.”
“<BR /> <BR />In dealing with the pandemic, we have worked collaboratively to deal with unprecedented economic and social challenges. The crisis has brought the interconnectedness of our economy, environment and people into sharp focus. It has shown how partnership working is not an option but a requirement. When we face a devastating wildfire on this scale, it reminds us just how much we value and need to protect our most precious natural assets. We have to join forces to do so.”
“I say clearly today that we are still at risk of wildfires. Dry, sunny, windy weather increases the risk of wildfires. Those weather conditions will continue until Wednesday and will then occur on and off over coming weeks. We must all act responsibly. Every one of us, therefore, has to take personal responsibility for our behaviour. We must play our part to in protecting our environment and our communities. I will ensure that there continues to be strong messaging, via social media and other communication methods to highlight the risks and the actions that are required. Whether you are a farmer or someone out to enjoy time in the countryside, do nothing to create a fire risk, and, if you do, contact the Fire and Rescue Service immediately so that it can be put out before it spreads out of control.”