Edwin Poots
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I call Mr Eóin Tennyson. Again, this is Mr Tennyson's first opportunity to speak as a private Member, so I remind the House that it is convention that a maiden speech be made without interruption. However, if you choose to express views that provoke an interruption, you are likely to forfeit that protection.”
“Sorry — Ms Armstrong. My apologies. <BR /> <BR />That the Assembly could, in some way, get that money out when it is a UK Government responsibility. The UK Government have distributed it directly in Scotland and Wales, not through the Welsh Parliament and not through the Scottish Parliament.”
“I have not got time; I am sorry. <BR /> <BR />Ursula von der Leyen, who was in the Republic last week, made some of the most ridiculous claims about the British Government, who have supported Ukraine in a way that no other Government in Europe have and who have never engaged in the activity that was suggested by Ursula von der Leyen.”
“Today, a lot of statements have been made but there has not been a lot of fact behind a lot of what has been said. We have Michelle O'Neill, who walked out of her role as Health Minister — not for six months but for three years — and abandoned her position when we had Bengoa and there were all the problems with nursing that led to the str…”
“I need to deal with the issues first. <BR /> <BR />He referred to the Budget that he produced. No party supported that Budget. The Alliance Party did not support it, because it did not cover policing and prisons. Infrastructure did not support it, because it would not allow it to do the basics of what had to be done.”
“We had a circumstance where Sinn Féin repeated, month after month after month, that there were hundreds of millions to give to the public when that did not exist and when, in reality, Minister Murphy was racking up debt that will roll into next year, which will ensure that that will be a difficult financial year.”
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“Will the Member recognise that another important element of the food industry is fishing — I tried to get Mr McKee to give way, but he would not — and that 80% of Irish fish are caught in British waters, 50% of Danish fish are caught in British waters and the Spaniards are never out of British waters? There is a huge opportunity for the food industry in terms of fishing as we go forward out of Europe.”
“Farmers were going to be worse off under the 2020 deal in any event. I am glad that we can make our own deal, and we will work with people like George Eustice, who has an ear for what the farming community wants, to get the best deal possible for Northern Ireland farmers.”
“Say, for example, to make things simple, there was a tariff of 10%. If the price of beef were £4 per kilo here, it would be £3·60 per kilo in the Republic of Ireland; if milk were 25p per litre here, it would be 22·5p per litre there. That would put the Northern Ireland farmer at an advantage, not a disadvantage. People talk about soft and hard Brexit. For the agriculture sector, a hard Brexit would probably work well because of the £21 billion difference between what Britain buys and what it sells to the rest of Europe. That would put Northern Ireland farmers into an advantageous position. <BR /> <BR />In terms of aid, everybody knows that the deal that was done in 2013 will not be repeated in 2020 because the accession countries are going to get more money. Consequently, the UK would be contributing more and getting less.”
“That cheque is very useful and helpful, and it always beats a poke in the eye. Nonetheless, farmers want to be freed up to make a bit of money from their own farms and hard labours, as opposed to being environmental custodians who are paid to do that. They will be environmental custodians, by the way, because they have been doing that for many generations. In that respect, farmers want to get out and sell their produce. The UK imports £21 billion more in food than it exports. Everybody should be able to see the opportunity that exists. If Europe is silly enough to insist on imposing tariffs — I think that Juncker and a few of them are — it will lead to many more millions of pounds flowing into the coffers of the UK and out of those of European countries. In that instance, we would have an opportunity.”
“European auditors were over the week before last, ensuring that the regulations were being applied. Northern Ireland has already been fined as a consequence of not applying the regulations as Europe saw fit. In Michelle Gildernew's term as Minister, we were hit very heavily with fines that we have been appealing ever since. Do not be in any doubt that Europe applied those fines. <BR /> <BR />Where do we go in looking forward? The decision has been made to get out, and farmers backed that decision. Why did farmers back the decision? I attended a debate with Martina Anderson one day, and she could not get it that farmers do not want handouts. Farmers do not want handouts; they want to make a bit of money from the work that they do. They want to be properly paid for their labours, as opposed to waiting for a cheque coming in every December.”
“— and they are not contributing to the environment in the way that they should. I note that the Member's name is on the Order Paper: maybe, when he is on is feet, he can clarify whether he voted to leave or stay in the EU.”
“I am not sure what regulations the Member wants to keep in place, because many of the regulations that are being applied are not practical and, as a consequence, actually damage the industry. They create an inability for farmers to operate as profitably as they should be —”
“They were in fear of some mandarin coming to their farm as a result of the European regulations.”
“I thank the Member for giving me an extra minute. All the polls suggest that around 80% of farmers voted to get out of Europe, which strikes me as overwhelming. If the Member was talking to farmers in his constituency, he will know that that was overwhelmingly the case. When I went round the doors during the election before the referendum, farmer after farmer was saying, "We want to get out of Europe". Why did they want to get out of Europe? Because, over the 45-odd years that we were in Europe, it managed to invent something like 2,800 regulations affecting farming. That is one for every week that we have been in Europe. Farmers have been regulated to death. Farmers could not get on with the work that they needed to do, because they were so busy looking at the regulations.”
“It is a privilege to speak on the issue. First of all, Northern Ireland farmers voted overwhelmingly to get out of Europe. That is something that the House needs to reflect on when it debates agriculture and rural affairs.”
“I understand your apology, Minister, and I am sure that the statement not being received in time was nothing whatsoever to do with you. <BR /> <BR />Obviously, the Minister inherited a circumstance in which there are not as many prison officers on the ground as there should be. Does she recognise the importance of having an adequate number of prison officers in the interests of the prisoners and, indeed, the prison staff? The mental health issue does not affect purely prisoners; given the stress that prison officers are under, many of them have severe mental health issues and are off sick at the moment.”
“Does the Minister recognise that she took over a Prison Service where the staff have been denigrated and demoralised, and that, consequently, there is an urgency about addressing the issue to raise staff morale?”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I apologise for not being in my position for a question yesterday. <BR /> <BR />The Government's record in ensuring that main contractors are paid quickly is good, but I think that main contractors are using subcontractors for banking purposes. You mentioned project bank accounts, which I think are used in a very limited way in the maintenance sector in particular. On the maintenance sector, will the Minister give us some assurance that subcontractors will be paid promptly by the main contractors and that people will not be out hundreds of thousands of pounds for several months when others have already been paid by the Government for the work carried out?”
“I am eternally grateful for everything they did to ensure that people like us have the opportunity to speak in a democratic forum here today.”
“<BR /> <BR />All that I can see is a means of going after the security services and their role in the Troubles and, by doing so, paint and project them as the bad boys, the black boys and the people who were doing wrong — when, in actual fact, they stood in the way of anarchy in this place — and, as a result of painting them in that way, rewrite history and say, "Do you know what? Republicans had to step up to the plate and defend our community against these bad and evil people". That is not going to happen. I know that that is the motive of individuals inside and outside the Chamber, but it is not going to happen. We will resist that at every opportunity. We will resist the blackening of the security services. They were the people who stood between us and anarchy and who stood in defence of the people of Northern Ireland and beyond.”
“Thank you for that. <BR /> <BR />The key point here is that unless the people on the paramilitary side come forward and tell the truth, the recovery system will not be an all-encompassing and equal system. <BR /> <BR />The other side of the House is constantly talking about equality. Are we going to get that equality? Will the paramilitaries speak up and tell the truth? They have never told the truth in the past. That is just the case. Mr Adams will not even admit that he was a member of the IRA, yet we are expected to believe that they will tell us the truth. If you want to give us the truth, let us see it kicking off. Let us see how it will happen. Let us see it commence.”
“I will not find out the absolute truth of what happened that day; who ordered it and who pulled the trigger, but I did happen to find out materials and issues relating to it. Unfortunately, we do not have an evidential base to go through with, but I believe that the person who carried out that action is now dead. He was a Mr O'Reilly who was shot in Drogheda in an INLA feud along with another member of the INLA. <BR /> <BR />When we talk about victims, we want real truth for victims. When Sinn Féin can step up to the plate and tell us that it will be honest, unequivocal, open and truthful and not obey the code — this famous code that those former members of the IRA have to abide by — we can make real progress. I do not believe —”
“Mr Eastwood was one of the people who brought forward the motion. I regret that he is out of his seat at this moment. Mr Eastwood carried the coffin of an INLA man. I find that particularly offensive. One day, as a boy, I came home from school to discover my mother in a particularly distressed state. She was in a particularly distressed state because my dad, who was a DUP councillor, came out of the Belfast market and was shot at by the INLA and she did not know what the circumstances were when I came home. Fortunately, while the vehicle was hit, he was not. I have no truck with, or succour for, those who support the INLA in any way, shape or form, whether that be by carrying a coffin or anything else.”
“There will be none of it on the side of paramilitaries; so, 90% of the victims out there who we are talking about will not get any truth but we will have a rigorous pursuit of the security services on behalf of the 10%. I have to tell you, folks, "That ain't possible and it ain't going to happen". It is not a fair and equitable way with which to deal with it.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak on this issue. I have a lot in common with what Mr Allister has just said. Where does the truth lie in these matters? The fact is that the IRA was responsible for over half the murders during the Troubles. When it comes to truth recovery, will there be books, turned over by the IRA, telling us who did what and why, why particular people were targeted and who gave the instructions? Of course, everybody knows the answer to that question. The answer is that no books will be turned over in aid of truth recovery, but there will be an obsession, a drive and a push to recover all the information that is available on the side of the security services.”
“Thank you very much for giving way. On the basis of the last figures that I found available, which were for 2012, it was costing over £9 million to NSL. Given that there are 115 operatives on the streets of Northern Ireland, do you think that £80,000 per redcoat is good value for money and, therefore, that the matter should be reviewed?”
“We must ensure that their voices are heard and that our prisons are better managed.”
“They have a wealth of experience, and to have that dismissed and to fly people in from England to stay in the Culloden Hotel to run our prisons and fly them back again after spending two or three days here was a failed means of carrying out the running of our prisons. We need to listen to the people on the ground and we need to identify the issues that they are raising with us.”
“I cannot; I have only two minutes. The motion is wholly and completely flawed. What else should we expect from a party whose previous policy on prisons was to allow the prisoners out and let them go free? When you see weak policy coming from the party that agreed to free prisoners in the first instance, that does not come as any surprise. <BR /> <BR />What is absolutely important here is the safety of the prison. I have to say that Maghaberry prison has become a much less safe place for prisoners and prison staff to be over the last five years than it was before. There has been an absolute failure in prisons over the past five years. I wish the current Minister well, but she will have to listen to the people on the ground and not ignore them. Our staff are hugely important.”
“We will not be supporting the motion or the amendment. The motion is flawed in that it identifies that the Steele report was wrong in the first instance but then proposes to take nine years to unravel it. If the separation of prisoners is worth ending, it is worth doing it much faster than over nine years.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Did it not gall prison officers, their families and the wider Northern Ireland public when the report that concluded that Maghaberry was the most dangerous prison also claimed that prison officers were under no greater threat here than anywhere else in the United Kingdom? Was the death of Adrian Ismay not a clear indication that our prison officers operate under a very different regime from that in any other part of the United Kingdom?”
“Thank you. We need to support the Minister to ensure that we continue to do better.”
“Whenever we bump into people in the streets who receive that care, as we regularly do, they say how wonderful our staff are, how wonderful the care is and how brilliant the treatment for cancer is here in Northern Ireland. We can always do better and we need to support the Minister —”
“<BR /> <BR />We are spending more on cancer drugs than ever before, and there are some absolutely superb drugs coming onto the market. We are doing more with the cancer treatments that are available. For example, a few years ago, stereotactic radiotherapy was not available in our radiotherapy units; we were sending people to England to get that. Now that is available in Northern Ireland. Tremendous strides have taken place, and I think that there are huge opportunities. <BR /> <BR />I just want to say something on staff morale. My wife has worked in cancer care, in oncology and haematology, for over 25 years, and I do not detect this low morale from her or her colleagues. I do detect a huge commitment to provide the care for people who really need it.”
“We are achieving the best results in the United Kingdom. Do not let the message go out there that we are providing some second-class cancer care services because we are not. It is critical that we do not rest on our laurels and that we still focus on delivering better care and better results. Any trust can have a particular problem at a particular time because they are dealing with people who have key specialisms. When someone has a specialism in oncology, you just cannot go down to the local broo office and pick up someone else to replace them. It is not as simple as that, and people should not make contrived simplistic arguments about that. These are people who have key specialisms and who are incredibly hard to replace, and trusts will work very hard to replace them as quickly as possible because that is their responsibility.”
“With the growing numbers of people who actually require cancer care, we simply could not have coped if we had not proceeded with that particular facility. <BR /> <BR />I would like to pay tribute to the people who are carrying out research in Queen's University and work very closely with the people in the Belfast City Hospital cancer unit. For around 20% of those key cancers, research-based drugs are being made available to people. That is one of the highest anywhere in the United Kingdom. For breast cancer, which we have referred to, we have amongst the best results anywhere in the United Kingdom, and the message should not be going out there —”
“It is being done, and it will deliver a service, not just for the people in that vicinity but for people in Donegal. It will also relieve the radiotherapy service that is available in Belfast City Hospital. The truth is that this unit in Altnagelvin is not just a service for people in the west of Northern Ireland; it is a service for all the people in Northern Ireland. People from the west were travelling for two hours to get 15 minutes of radiotherapy and then travelling for two hours back. People were telling me that, when it snowed, it was actually an all-day route for 15 minutes of care. Those people will not be using that service, and therefore it will create greater availability for people in greater Belfast and the eastern part of Northern Ireland. It was absolutely critical that that happened.”
“As someone who has served in the role, I wish the Minister well in tackling this issue on behalf of all of us. It is critical that we continue with much of the good work that has already been achieved. <BR /> <BR />On the first day of the previous Assembly, I recall that I was confronted by the Pink Ladies, a group which many people from the city of Londonderry will know well. They were here wanting to know why Altnagelvin cancer unit, the radiotherapy unit, was not proceeding. I agreed to go and meet people in Altnagelvin and to look at the finances. The first decision that I made as Minister was to proceed with that cancer unit and change the decision that had been taken by the previous Minister, because cancer is too important to play politics with. The money was there to do it.”
“Cancer is such an important subject to discuss. When discussing it, we should not engage in political bickering. We need to look for solutions and look to address the issues at hand.”
“Is it not a mark of shame on the Prison Service that so many prison officers are retired on medical grounds? Given the Prison Service's duty of care to its officers, is it appropriate that people coming out of hospital are, within a week of coming out, being harassed and harangued about getting back to work, when they have a serious illness?”
“The issue that is in front of us today is, for the general public, a non-issue, and it has been brought forward by a somewhat rudderless Opposition.”
“The Member has raised many environmental issues, and many of them I disagree with. I would much prefer that, if there were resources available here in Northern Ireland, we look at that and see whether we can use those resources for the population in Northern Ireland, as opposed to importing oil from regions in the Middle East and Africa and gas from Siberia and so forth, where, very often, much poorer environmental conditions apply. If you are looking at the global earth, it would be much better to do the thing right here than import it from somewhere else and ignore what is going on. Perhaps Mr Agnew will reflect that in his green policies. Is it just green here in Northern Ireland, or is it green elsewhere? <BR /> <BR />Those are issues that we are very happy to take on and debate.”
“We are here today, and what we are interested in as a Government, as an Executive and as a party of government is delivery for the people of Northern Ireland. Breast cancer and the issues around that were raised earlier. Those are the issues that are fundamental, and Mr Durkan, in fairness, has a question down on that. I know that the Opposition are just finding their feet, but they appear to be clambering about and taking a stab here and there without any real coherence. They appear to be somewhat leaderless and rudderless, and having Mr Nesbitt as leader of the Opposition is somewhat worrying for those of us who would like to see an effective Opposition in this House because, after all, he is a failed political leader. In virtually every election that he goes into, he comes out with a worse result.”
“I had six and a half years of it, so I did not do too badly. They took a brave while to catch me on.”
“Mr Allister is, of course, a wannabe leader of unionism, which has never happened for him, and he is a wannabe MP, but Ian Paisley showed him a very clean pair of heels when he made that attempt. We will not be taking any lectures from Mr Allister about wannabees.”
“I welcome that because I think that there could be something interesting in relation to it. <BR /> <BR />Nobody is suggesting that Committees are not given information. Who is actually suggesting that Committees are not given information? I found in my past role that, sometimes, Members can get information that was not previously made available to Ministers. Sometimes civil servants do not want all the information available to go to Ministers, so I always welcomed good, probing questions being asked that got to the issues and that could assist a Minister in the execution of their duties. <BR /> <BR />Mr Allister asked many questions, and he referred to wannabe Ministers.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I had rather hoped that he would deal with the issue of Magilligan, which I mentioned earlier, but he failed to tell people what is going on.”
“It is the job of the Government to deliver and ensure that delivery is carried out. Very often, releasing information in advance of that can inhibit delivery. Very often, people will come in and seek to exploit things for party political interests as opposed to the interests of the public. It is incredibly important that those people who are in government carry out their work in a way that is proficient and ensures that delivery happens. Delivery on the ground is fundamentally important to the public, not the issue that is being raised.”
“We have heard quite a bit from the Opposition today about issues of transparency. My colleague Mr Stalford pointed out quite correctly that it is the job of the Opposition to probe and question and to seek out and find information. It is not the job of the Government to hand it all to them —”
“I thank the Member for giving way, and I note the hyenas in the corner. I am interested to know, in the interests of transparency, whether anything was held back in relation to the fitness of the infrastructure at Magilligan prison. Perhaps, at a later stage, the Alliance Party can tell us how fit for purpose that facility is, even for refurbishment.”
“Of course, it did not operate at all for quite a number of years after it could have been brought into Northern Ireland because of the shenanigans of Mr Attwood and his colleagues in holding that organisation back. We see the benefits of the good work that it does now in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the amendments to Standing Orders. I encourage the House to give them its full support, and I commend the proposals from the Committee Chairman today.”
“He may want to take that up with the former leadership of the Alliance Party, most of whom have moved on now, in absolute fairness. <BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, we missed the first 27 seconds of Mr Attwood's speech, but we got the rest of it. I assume that the first 27 seconds were the best part of it, given what I what heard after that. He referred to the undertaking. I point out to him that some of us have issues with politicians who campaign to get terrorists released from prison, with politicians who name play parks after terrorists and, indeed, with politicians who carry the coffins of terrorists. Perhaps we can look at that in terms of the undertaking. He also made considerable reference to the NCA operating with one hand tied behind its back.”
“I remind her that they were happy to sit in government when the IRA was regularly carrying out punishment beatings and when 12 people were shot by Direct Action Against Drugs. She need not come here forgetting the past and whitewashing the past in that respect. <BR /> <BR />My Lyttle raised a valid point about holding Members to account on the undertaking. If he wishes to raise that further, I am perfectly happy to continue to look at it, because it is important that we get it right. He also referred to designations. Again, I will give him some latitude. He is relatively young and might not realise what took place in the past, but the Alliance Party was one of the most significant advocates of the Belfast Agreement, which, of course, established the designations in the first place.”
“I thank the Committee Chairperson for outlining the changes to Standing Orders, and I thank the Members who have spoken to them. <BR /> <BR />The motion to amend Standing Order 23(3) will remove any ambiguity in relation to the publication of papers deposited in the Assembly Library. Mr McGrath welcomed the greater openness. <BR /> <BR />The final two motions will make provision in Standing Orders for hybrid Bills, and the Chairperson outlined those provisions. <BR /> <BR />I will respond briefly to some of the issues raised by Members. Mrs Barton referred to the "so-called Fresh Start Agreement". There is nothing "so-called" about it: it is the Fresh Start Agreement. The Ulster Unionist Party might not understand that because it ran away. Paramilitarism was not at the top of the agenda because they were not there to set the agenda.”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Would the Member mind pulling his microphone towards him? We cannot hear him.”