Edwin Poots
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I call Mr Eóin Tennyson. Again, this is Mr Tennyson's first opportunity to speak as a private Member, so I remind the House that it is convention that a maiden speech be made without interruption. However, if you choose to express views that provoke an interruption, you are likely to forfeit that protection.”
“Sorry — Ms Armstrong. My apologies. <BR /> <BR />That the Assembly could, in some way, get that money out when it is a UK Government responsibility. The UK Government have distributed it directly in Scotland and Wales, not through the Welsh Parliament and not through the Scottish Parliament.”
“I have not got time; I am sorry. <BR /> <BR />Ursula von der Leyen, who was in the Republic last week, made some of the most ridiculous claims about the British Government, who have supported Ukraine in a way that no other Government in Europe have and who have never engaged in the activity that was suggested by Ursula von der Leyen.”
“Today, a lot of statements have been made but there has not been a lot of fact behind a lot of what has been said. We have Michelle O'Neill, who walked out of her role as Health Minister — not for six months but for three years — and abandoned her position when we had Bengoa and there were all the problems with nursing that led to the str…”
“I need to deal with the issues first. <BR /> <BR />He referred to the Budget that he produced. No party supported that Budget. The Alliance Party did not support it, because it did not cover policing and prisons. Infrastructure did not support it, because it would not allow it to do the basics of what had to be done.”
“We had a circumstance where Sinn Féin repeated, month after month after month, that there were hundreds of millions to give to the public when that did not exist and when, in reality, Minister Murphy was racking up debt that will roll into next year, which will ensure that that will be a difficult financial year.”
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“Biodiversity is absolutely critical. People talk a lot about carbon but miss biodiversity. A lot of species have been lost over the last number of decades. We need to arrest and reverse that. Some of the work that we are doing on biodiversity with the RSPB has ensured that we have more ground-nesting birds. I visited County Fermanagh and went out on the loughs and to the islands where that work is being done. It is good-quality work, which, in some instances, has involved removing trees so that predatory birds cannot come and take eggs from ground-nesting birds. Some people objected to that, but they did not understand the importance of the project and its ability to contribute to biodiversity efforts taking place in the county.”
“That is why I talk about issues like anaerobic digestion. We can engage in restoring peatlands, tree planting, hedgerow enhancement and different grass management, which uses multi-species sward and so forth. All those things will help us to reduce our carbon footprint but still allow us to produce high quality food here in Northern Ireland. That is what is critical. I do not really want to be buying food from the southern hemisphere in years to come, and I do not really want to be eating plant-based food that has been produced from insects; I would much rather have steak.”
“I tend to agree. No matter what sector it is, you need some certainty. If you want to make investments, and particularly if that investment involves borrowed money, you absolutely want some certainty that somebody will not pull the rug from under you two or three years into the scheme. <BR /> <BR />We need to ensure that we can move forward in the House in a way that actually tackles the environmental issues and problems. It is absolutely critical that we tackle those environmental issues head on. So often, there are lots of opportunities out there to turn those problems into an advantage. That is what we need to do in Northern Ireland. Instead of just closing down an industry, we should look at how we deal with the problems that are emanating from that industry and turn them into an advantage.”
“<BR /> <BR />Investment in measures such as low-emission spreading equipment has made a real transformational difference. Importantly, in the year that it is, with the price of fertiliser associated with high oil prices, that has helped to ensure that farms will need to acquire less fertiliser because they will extract more from their slurry. Therefore, such an investment brings a significant benefit to both the environment and the farmer.”
“I thank the Member for the question. The farm business improvement scheme has been a huge success story thus far. I welcome the commitment of substantial investment in our largest manufacturing sector and the confidence that that gives in the sector, but we want to ensure that the investments that are made are meaningful and will deliver everything that is needed. <BR /> <BR />For example, the investment in low-emission spreading equipment and covering of tanks etc will achieve somewhere in the region of a 25% reduction in the amount of ammonia. For a number of years, we have been sitting with the Shared Environmental Service (SES) saying, "You cannot build anything", but it has not reduced the amount of ammonia in the atmosphere by 1%. Just stopping and going into paralysis does not achieve anything.”
“Food from Northern Ireland has demonstrated over and over again its quality, provenance and traceability. We can demonstrate, and with investment ensure, that we have the highest environmental standards anywhere in the world. Therefore, it is incumbent upon us to ensure that investment can take place and that we can say to people, "If you wish to buy food from South America, North America, Australia or wherever, you are not buying food that has the best provenance, quality, animal welfare, animal health, traceability and that, importantly, is not the best for the environment, air miles and food miles". We can meet all those requirements and supply to a local market that is largely within a few hours from Northern Ireland. We can do that extremely well.”
“A lot of that investment will come from the private sector, but we need to back that up and be able to help the private sector to deliver it quickly, because it will happen much more slowly than by 2050 if we do not give it that support. The necessity to get good capital support from the Department of Finance to deliver on that is critical.”
“There is tremendous opportunity for that. We already have a number of farms that produce biomethane. That is being translated into electricity. We can go a step further, and that will involve significant investment. I know of one company that invested £1·4 million in cleaning up slurry so that it can be used as fuel. That is the nature of the costs that are involved. In turning what was once slurry into gas, you remove the methane from the atmosphere and replace a fossil fuel with biomethane to run your vehicles, refrigeration, tractors and to heat people's homes. <BR /> <BR />There is a win-win in that. It requires investment.”
“I thank the Member for the question. With regard to a just transition, our green growth policy is about taking meaningful actions. We had requested a substantial amount of money. I have to say that the Department of Finance has fallen pitifully short with what is actually needed. We can remove carbon, whether that is through anaerobic digestion, animals' food intake or genetics and breeding to ensure that less carbon is produced. We have identified very clearly that the more efficient farming is, the lower its carbon footprint. We have made proposals. We have put proposals to the Department of Finance to financially support them. That Department needs to put its money where Sinn Féin's mouth is. It is not supporting us to deliver 82%, never mind 100%, with the pitiful offer that has been made to us to tackle climate change.”
“However, those politicians here have a policy, and, because they think that it is populist — some people think that it is populist — they are driving ahead with that policy, which will actually lead to more environmental damage. If they think that a policy is popular and trendy with a particular voter base, they will go after it, irrespective of the consequence, and that is the approach that is being adopted by both the Green Party and Sinn Féin.”
“I visited a farm in north Antrim with Mr Storey just last week, which has been engaged in work on carbon. That farm is able to demonstrate that the carbon involved in its production of beef is one quarter of that produced on the big farms in North America and South America.”
“When politicians run away from their constituents, it is never a good sign. The fact that I would probably be more welcome amongst the farmers in Loughguile than Mr McGuigan — in fact, Mr Allister might even be more welcome than Mr McGuigan amongst the farming community in Loughguile — speaks volumes.”
“<BR /> <BR />Sinn Féin is in a different place from the other parties because the other parties backed my proposals at the Committee last week. Sinn Féin stood alone with the Green Party last week on the issue, and it is standing alone against the farming community with the Green Party on it now.”
“I recall that particular snow experience. I do not recall the one that took place in, I think, 1961, which my mother and father talked about; they were locked in their home for three weeks. Major snow events have occasionally taken place for very many decades. Thankfully, this year, we have avoided them thus far. <BR /> <BR />The Member talked about the death of 17,000 sheep. Sinn Féin is standing over the death of 13,000 farms and the people who work on those farms not being able to make a living from them. The farmers in my constituency will feel the impact of that considerably less than the farmers in the Member's constituency of North Antrim because there are many more farms there in a less-favoured area. Those are the people whom he is hurting the most.”
“<BR /> <BR />I understand where the Green Party is coming from; it is, largely, a Belfast-based party, and it does not get that many votes from the agriculture sector. However, we have a party that is in behind the Green Party on the issue — Sinn Féin — that is saying one thing in the South of Ireland and a different thing here in Northern Ireland. It is abandoning the farmers who live in the hills and the uplands of Northern Ireland. I call on Sinn Féin to reflect on the damage that it is potentially doing to the agricultural industry by backing something that has no scientific grounds.”
“That has been debated considerably for quite a period. Over and over again, we have asked for evidence of how that can be achieved without having the damaging impact on the agricultural sector that the KPMG report and the Climate Change Committee, which consists of world-renowned experts on the issue, have indicated that it will have. People make bland statements without having any factual, scientific backing for them. <BR />The Member serves a constituency in which there is a large less-favoured area. The figure that I just quoted to the Assembly on the impact that it would have on farms in less-favoured areas is incredible. We are looking at beef, dairy and sheep herd numbers falling by 86%, and the biggest impact would happen in the less-favoured areas.”
“The private Member's Bill could disengage the very people who are a part of the solution to this issue: our farmers. We must get full buy-in and face this challenge collectively.”
“<BR /> <BR />Recently, KPMG published a report on the economic impact assessment of the private Member’s Climate Change Bill. The report reaffirms the evidence presented by the Climate Change Committee and predicts that sector-level herd numbers would significantly fall, with the greatest impact being felt in farms operating in less-favoured areas. Overall, the report concludes that the impact would be beef, dairy and sheep herd numbers falling by 86% and pig and poultry herd numbers falling by 11%. That would represent a 54% decrease in farm employment, with around 13,000 jobs lost in the primary area alone. <BR /> <BR />Instead of imposing a target that is not credible, we need to ensure that we work collaboratively with the agri-food sector to achieve reductions in emissions through a balanced approach.”
“The private Member's Climate Change Bill will have a very significant and detrimental impact on farmers across Northern Ireland, including those in North Antrim. The UK Climate Change Committee (CCC) indicated that even a 50% reduction in meat and dairy production in Northern Ireland would not get Northern Ireland to net zero by 2050, never mind by 2045. The Climate Change Committee further highlighted, in the strongest possible terms, that a target of net zero by 2050 or earlier for Northern Ireland is not credible, is morally wrong and could undermine efforts to reduce emissions. It could also result in a shift of food production from Northern Ireland to other countries where the carbon footprint of such production is much higher, thereby actually increasing global emissions.”
“<BR /> <BR />Those are practical measures that people in the industry know very well, and they need to ensure that they implement those measures 100% of the time, because the only way in which the infection will get into your house is if you allow it to come into your house. A lot of the mitigations are therefore in the hands of the people who look after the flocks.”
“I mentioned that having to put in place a prevention zone causes trade restrictions, and that causes harm to the industry. Keeping this disease out is therefore critical. Good disinfection is also important, and ensuring that vehicles go through the disinfectant pools that have been created is another benefit. It is important that individuals ensure that they do not wear their outside boots inside when entering or leaving houses, that they have different boots for inside, that the concrete area outside houses is always kept well washed and so forth, and that no grain is left lying around the meal bins.”
“They need to protect that livelihood and ensure that nobody else jeopardises it on their behalf.”
“Yes. Considerable work has been done on that. Factors have been identified that link a number of the outbreaks, and ongoing discussions on that are being had with the owners. We are not in a position to publish that information at the moment, but we will be able to do so at some point. <BR /> <BR />For commercial holders particularly, it is not just about what they do: they can take all the biosecurity measures, but someone or something else can cause a problem, whether it is the man who delivers the meal, the electrician or plumber who comes to do maintenance on the bird house, or, indeed, rodents — as I mentioned, it is important to ensure that your house is rodent-proof. All those are key measures that need to be taken. Keeping poultry is many people's bread and butter: their livelihood.”
“Absolutely: you can avoid contact with other birds; ensure that there is no contact with other birds' faeces; ensure that vermin, for example, cannot easily access your property, which is always attractive to them because there is always food there for them; ensure that you wear clothing that can be washed properly after you have been in your poultry house; and so forth. There is advice on the Department's website, and I encourage the Member and, indeed, members of the public to look at it if they are keepers of birds in order to ensure that they can keep the disease at bay.”
“Taking appropriate biosecurity measures, which are extremely stringent and have been advised on by our veterinary officials, is therefore critical. That also applies to people who keep small flocks of birds for a hobby: they also need to apply those measures. I welcome the fact that around 600 people attended a webinar to hear what they needed to do. We lost a hobby flock to the disease. That demonstrates that it is not just about commercial poultry but about all poultry across Northern Ireland. Everyone should be registered for the poultry that they keep.”
“We have a superb set of veterinary officials looking after the situation. They carry out incredible work to keep avian flu under control. We are also working with people in the poultry industry who are at the leading edge relative to anywhere in these islands. We are therefore quite well placed. <BR /> <BR />We have a high volume of poultry per square mile of the country, so it is more challenging for us, but we need to meet that challenge. The best means of doing so is by having the best biosecurity measures possible. We can never stop wild birds from bringing in the disease, because birds are migratory and they will travel here. They are welcome, but, unfortunately, some of them will carry disease. The only way of ensuring that that disease does not become a problem is by keeping it outside people's premises.”
“I confirm that there have been no outbreaks since December, and that is very welcome. We want to ensure that whatever steps we take are appropriate and ensure that we do nothing to contribute to the further spread of that awful disease. The housing order will be kept under constant review. The decision to ease any restrictions will be determined by the level of risk, in conjunction with the industry and in collaboration with our counterparts in Great Britain and the Republic of Ireland.”
“<BR /> <BR />My officials will continue to meet industry stakeholders frequently to engage closely in regards to the outbreak.”
“As international trade is a reserved matter, my officials work closely daily with DEFRA market access colleagues to ensure that trade with third countries is maintained where possible and to minimise the impact on Great Britain and Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />An avian influenza prevention zone has been in place across Northern Ireland since 17 November 2021. The measures in the avian influenza prevention zone include stringent, mandatory, biosecurity measures to help prevent the spread of the disease from wild birds or another source to poultry. In addition, the introduction of mandatory housing orders, effective from 29 November 2021, legally requires all birds to be housed or otherwise kept separate from wild birds. Similar measures including housing orders are also in place across Great Britain.”
“All other disease control zones enacted around the other four affected premises have been lifted. <BR /> <BR />In the Republic of Ireland, avian influenza has been confirmed at six premises. The disease control zones for four of those cases extended into Northern Ireland, and corresponding disease control zones were established here to limit the onward spread of disease. As of today, only one of those disease control zones, which extended into parts of County Tyrone and County Armagh, is still in place. <BR /> <BR />The confirmation of H5N1 in Northern Ireland has a notable impact on our poultry industry, international trade and the wider economy. Poultry meat from the 3-kilometre restriction zone around an infected premises is excluded from EU trade. That poultry meat must be used in the domestic market only.”
“Mr Speaker, with your permission, I wish to group together questions 3, 9, 11 and 14. <BR /> <BR />The avian influenza outbreak across the United Kingdom has been ongoing for 83 days since the first confirmation in Worcestershire on 26 October 2021. In total, there have now been 81 cases of avian influenza confirmed across the UK. The breakdown is 68 cases in England, five in Scotland, three in Wales and five in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />The five confirmed cases in Northern Ireland were located at Aughnacloy, Broughshane, Armagh, Coagh and Ballinderry. Culling, disposal and preliminary cleansing and disinfection has been completed at all sites. As of today, there is one 10-kilometre surveillance zone still in place around the Ballinderry premises, which is due to be lifted on 22 January 2022.”
“Environmental and conservation bodies submitted 10 responses. There were three responses from veterinary bodies and 16 from individual vets. Of the remaining responses, one came from a political party, six from individual politicians and 15 from representatives of non-bovine interests. Other individuals also contributed. <BR /> <BR />It was a huge response, in that there were 3,300 responses. Obviously, I cannot meet every respondent. We are receiving correspondence from people, which we deal with. My door is always open, and, when I can, I meet groups or bodies that act on behalf of people. I have engaged quite extensively, for example, with one of the bodies, Ulster Wildlife, over the last year. We discussed the badger issue quite extensively with it. I am very happy to continue to meet groups that have a relevant case to make.”
“We are certainly looking at grant aid. In fact, my last meeting with officials was about the capital that the Department of Finance has offered and about how there is no real prospect of us doing what we need to do and reducing the carbon in the agriculture sector with what Finance has offered us. If the Member has good contacts there, we would appreciate her support in getting more finance to introduce such biosecurity schemes, and also to make the impact on carbon reduction that her party would like to see but for which it is not divvying up the money that the Department of Finance holds.”
“Obviously, this is a consultation, and I have outlined the response from industry to it. We are in the business of putting issues out to consultation, because, on the one hand, we have a public purse issue to address, and, on the other, we have the expectation of the industry. In the past year, we have been looking at a herd incidence rate of bovine tuberculosis, for the 12 months to November 2021, of 8·93%. I am acutely aware that every bovine TB breakdown has an awful impact on hard-working families and that the financial pressures thereafter can be considerable and, in many respects, life-changing. In arriving at our final decision, we will take all those things into account.”
“We have reservoirs of bovine tuberculosis in the bovine population and in the wildlife population, and we need to eliminate both at the same time if we are to ensure that we can move forward and bring down that disease to a much more acceptable level, leading, ultimately, to the eradication of it in Northern Ireland, as has happened in other places.”
“There was a fairly hostile response to the proposals to cut compensation. We sought views on the specific question of a proposed compensation cap of £5,000 per bovine removed for the purpose of disease control and a phased reduction in compensation payments to 75% of each bovine's market value. The response was, I suppose, "That would be all well and good if we had a very low incidence of bovine tuberculosis and we could insure our livestock against it, but, in the absence of achieving that, we do not really want to go there". That is a quick summary of what the majority of responses said. <BR /> <BR />Our real focus has to be on the eradication of bovine tuberculosis. People may not think that that is a serious issue, but it is. It costs the Executive £40-odd million each year to deal with bovine tuberculosis.”
“<BR /> <BR />Since the consultation closed, the responses were analysed by my officials and a summary was published on my Department’s website. In addition to considering the consultation responses, my Department is progressing the necessary environmental assessments of the proposed new strategy. I expect that work to be completed shortly. I will be in a position to take final decisions on the way forward once that work has concluded and I have had an opportunity to consider it in detail, along with the responses to the consultation, advice provided by my veterinary and policy officials, field evidence from other jurisdictions and the comprehensive business case. I expect to announce the decisions in February.”
“The bovine TB eradication strategy for Northern Ireland aims to reduce and eventually eradicate bovine TB by comprehensively addressing all the recognised key factors that contribute to the maintenance and spread of the disease. <BR /> <BR />The consultation on the Department’s proposed implementation of the bovine tuberculosis eradication strategy for Northern Ireland and the next steps closed on 10 September 2021. That sought views on the increased use of gamma testing, the testing of non-bovine species, a preferred option for badger intervention and possible changes to compensation arrangements. Over 3,300 responses were received. That highlights the significant level of interest in the proposals, and I would like to thank everyone who took the time to respond.”
“I look forward to the views of the Committee on the appropriate actions for the Government and the industry to encourage female participation in the industry. There are a lot of opportunities. In particular, with the development of the chicken industry and other industries, where a lot relies on great attention to detail, we are finding that women are excelling in agriculture. We want to encourage more of that.”
“First, the scheme is open to everyone, regardless of gender. I recognise that women contribute greatly to the operation of family farms in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />In recent years, there has been a significant shift towards more females studying and working in agriculture across Northern Ireland. For example, over half of the higher education students who are now enrolled in the College of Agriculture, Food and Rural Enterprise (CAFRE) are female, which represents a significant and, indeed, very welcome shift. I am cognisant of the need to encourage females into farming and to eliminate any perceived barriers to accessing the industry as a viable career path. <BR /> <BR />I note that the AERA Committee is working on a report on the barriers for women in the agriculture sector.”
“With your support and input, I hope that we can take full advantage of the opportunity to develop a future sustainable agricultural industry.”
“I published the future agricultural policy framework portfolio for Northern Ireland on 24 August 2021. It sets out a framework for future policy around four key outcomes, which were developed following engagement with stakeholders. Those were increased productivity, environmental sustainability, improved resilience, and an effective and functioning supply chain. <BR /> <BR />In December 2021, I launched a consultation on the future agricultural policy proposals for Northern Ireland, which emerged from the already published future agricultural framework portfolio. The consultation includes policy proposals on 14 work streams — eight primary work streams and six underpinning measures. I encourage everyone to respond to that consultation.”
“Staff are being pulled from all areas of the Veterinary Service to assist with this. As I indicated, it is going to take time. Right across the Department, be they from the ports, be they working up strategies and policies or be they from the team that is developing the replacement for the animal and public health information system (APHIS), they are being pulled and brought back in to provide support for that particular service. Vets who have not been involved in that type of work for a long time are now front and centre in providing assistance and support. It will be happening in all areas of veterinary, including the one that Mr Allister mentioned. It is something that I have raised with veterinary officials.”
“There appeared to be some misunderstanding at the outset over who had responsibility for the swans. There was therefore communication to that effect so that everybody understood each body's legal position and responsibility. Since then, Belfast City Council has been doing all that it can to deal with the issue, and it is dealing with it very responsibly. The Department will give the council guidance and support and share information with it to assist it in dealing with the problem at the Waterworks and, indeed, at Belfast lough.”
“I say to anyone who is feeling depressed or down, be they people belonging to flock owners who have lost birds in this circumstance or anyone else, to seek that support, care and help, because it is out there. If you are in a rural community and need support, you should contact the organisations that are providing support. You will find a lot of expertise, care, knowledge and guidance to help you through a particularly difficult time.”
“Yes. My Department supports a number of organisations that deliver care and support for people in rural communities. We have found those organisations hugely helpful in the past. In severe outbreaks of TB, for example, which are quite common, people may lose a considerable part of their herd or their entire herd. Those organisations have the expertise to provide support to those who wish to have it. Many people will just knuckle down and do not want others to be about or to talk to others. There are, however, those who will need to talk to others.”
“I thank the Member for his question. All the outbreaks in Ireland have been in the province of Ulster — Cavan, Monaghan, County Tyrone, County Armagh and County Antrim. There has been considerable engagement between my officials and officials in the Irish Republic on this. We have assisted, I understand, with culls, and we will continue to work very closely with each other. People at the highest levels of each veterinary service will share their knowledge and expertise, and they will support each other in every way that they can. I am entirely supportive of that to ensure that we minimise the disease on the island of Ireland and, at the same time, in the British Isles.”
“Through mainstream and social media, we have been putting out messages over and over again to inform and advise the public. Anyone who has a concern can call the helpline, and people can also visit the DAERA website, which gives advice on all these issues. If people are sensible, they will seek to follow sensible guidelines and instructions on these issues and not act on impulse. This is a situation that should be left to the experts. We have the expertise to deal with and mitigate this disease, and the full force of that expertise is in place right now. If people have any queries, they should put them to the appropriate source.”
“We have been engaging with local authorities in Northern Ireland. We are engaging with other Departments and departmental agencies, such as the Public Health Agency, which provides advice to the public about their health. I have also engaged directly with the UK Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, George Eustice. My officials have been engaging with officials in other parts of Great Britain and, indeed, the Republic of Ireland. There has been substantial coordination between all officials to address the issues that need to be addressed in order to control the disease and minimise its spread.”
“The risk of spread of the disease is gone when slaughter takes place and it is not spreading through eggs. Given that, we can continue to sell at the moment. There may be an issue with hatching eggs, but that remains to be seen. However, at the moment, we continue to sell in local, national and international markets, and we will continue to provide that support to ensure that businesses can continue to do that. The poultry industry is important to Northern Ireland, accounting for some £400 million of turnover. Over 10,000 people are employed in that industry. It is an extensive industry, and we need to support and help it through this crisis. My Department will not be found wanting when it comes to that.”