Edwin Poots
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I call Mr Eóin Tennyson. Again, this is Mr Tennyson's first opportunity to speak as a private Member, so I remind the House that it is convention that a maiden speech be made without interruption. However, if you choose to express views that provoke an interruption, you are likely to forfeit that protection.”
“Sorry — Ms Armstrong. My apologies. <BR /> <BR />That the Assembly could, in some way, get that money out when it is a UK Government responsibility. The UK Government have distributed it directly in Scotland and Wales, not through the Welsh Parliament and not through the Scottish Parliament.”
“I have not got time; I am sorry. <BR /> <BR />Ursula von der Leyen, who was in the Republic last week, made some of the most ridiculous claims about the British Government, who have supported Ukraine in a way that no other Government in Europe have and who have never engaged in the activity that was suggested by Ursula von der Leyen.”
“Today, a lot of statements have been made but there has not been a lot of fact behind a lot of what has been said. We have Michelle O'Neill, who walked out of her role as Health Minister — not for six months but for three years — and abandoned her position when we had Bengoa and there were all the problems with nursing that led to the str…”
“I need to deal with the issues first. <BR /> <BR />He referred to the Budget that he produced. No party supported that Budget. The Alliance Party did not support it, because it did not cover policing and prisons. Infrastructure did not support it, because it would not allow it to do the basics of what had to be done.”
“We had a circumstance where Sinn Féin repeated, month after month after month, that there were hundreds of millions to give to the public when that did not exist and when, in reality, Minister Murphy was racking up debt that will roll into next year, which will ensure that that will be a difficult financial year.”
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“<BR /> <BR />Under the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act (Northern Ireland) 2011 and the Environmental Offences (Fixed Penalties) (Miscellaneous Provisions) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2012, dealing with littering is the responsibility of the district councils. However, I am looking at the effectiveness of these current powers and the level of fines. Keep Northern Ireland Beautiful has been appointed to gather data from all councils on their use of fixed penalty notices for both litter and dog fouling offences. This will inform a review of the fixed penalty notice regime which is due to be completed early in 2021. Officials have also separately been engaging with a number of councils on this issue.”
“My Department has been working closely with councils throughout COVID-19 to address increased concerns about fly-tipping. Officials have also been in regular contact and have been engaging with council colleagues, through the local and central government waste working group, on the development of a revised Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA)/district council fly-tipping protocol. <BR /> <BR />While the majority of fly-tipping incidents are dealt with by councils, the NIEA has been assisting with the removal of hazardous wastes, such as asbestos and fuel laundering waste, and will also investigate larger waste deposits. Once agreed, the fly-tipping protocol will formalise this arrangement and provide clarity on the operational roles and responsibilities of the NIEA and the local councils in relation to tackling fly-tipping.”
“It is tricky. The movement to the Republic of Ireland is the easy bit. If there is no trade deal, the coming back is slightly more difficult. There can be a solution to that, and it is that the quantities of milk that go and the quantities of cheese, butter or whatever that come back could be measured to have pretty much an equal amount, and the UK Government could receive that without any additional tariffs being applied, should tariffs come into play between the European Union and Great Britain as a result of negotiations not delivering a free trade agreement.”
“It is important that the dairy sector in particular gets a solution to this, and I encourage the European Union to take up the solution that we have offered.”
“There is a potential solution, but Europe does not seem to be prepared to accept it as yet. It is diagonal cumulation, which would mean that goods with content from the European Union, the UK and third countries which have a free trade agreement with both the European Union and the UK would meet the rules of origin requirements under EU free trade agreements. To this point, the EU has opposed diagonal cumulation. <BR /> <BR />It is particularly important for the dairy sector that we get a solution, because obviously a lot of our milk ends up being processed in Ireland a lot of it goes to Great Britain and a lot of it is sold to third countries. The Middle East and Far East, for example, receive a lot of this product. Because the product is a mixed product, that becomes more challenging.”
“Our officials are involved behind the scenes at the negotiations, and, regularly, make the case for Northern Ireland. The First Minister and deputy First Minister wrote to the European Union, directly, expressing the views of the Northern Ireland Executive on a range of issues.”
“It was the European Union's demand that we be included in the single market, as a consequence of the protocol. Therefore it should carry out its obligations to the full and include Northern Ireland in the free trade arrangements that it has with other countries.”
“I would welcome the fact that we would have the opportunity to sell our product in as many places as possible, with free trade available to us. I know that a considerable number of free trade deals will be negotiated by the UK Government, very quickly, and we may have even more access through those free trade deals going forward. However, since we are part of the single market and following the rules of the single market, we should be part of the European free trade agreements as well. It is very disappointing that the European Union appears to be excluding us on the basis that it would involve too much work and that, to include us, it would have to open up negotiations with all of the countries with which it has free trade arrangements.”
“The UK Government have been negotiating with countries that have a free trade agreement with the EU, with the aim of putting in place a continuity agreement that would apply equivalent provisions to the UK. Those negotiations have made good progress, and it is expected that a large majority of those countries will have a continuity agreement in place on 1 January 2021. Trade with other countries will be able to take place on WTO terms, as is the case at present. Those measures will limit the impact on local agriculture and Northern Ireland goods being excluded from EU trade deals. I understand that there is the potential for difficulties for cross-border trade. A number of solutions are being looked at, but those will need to await developments in the UK-EU trade negotiations.”
“I thank the Member for the question. There is a positive and a negative to that. The positive is that forestry can provide a break for ammonia, so strategically located bands of trees could do some good. The problem with trees is that they are hungry for water. Using water close to the peatlands leads to them being drier, and, consequently, they lose carbon on that front. Forestry at the appropriate locations may, therefore, be an inhibitor to the spread of ammonia and something that can be considered. That is the short answer.”
“The acreage of trees that have been planted each year has been identified. The forest expansion scheme was launched in June, and we have applications for the planting of some 547 hectares of forest this year. That is approximately double the area in last year's applications. So, we are having some success with Forests for our Future. People are planting trees and taking up the mantle and identifying that they want to be involved. <BR /> <BR />Considerable acreage has been suggested to us, particularly by NI Water and other public bodies that are looking to participate in making our environment more sustainable by planting trees.”
“It focuses on woodlands over 30 years old, which includes tree harvesting from 2021 to 2030, which is estimated to result in a small net source of carbon dioxide. The small carbon dioxide emission is far outweighed by carbon dioxide captured by forests prior to 30 years of age, as is also identified in the DAFM report. <BR /> <BR />Taking the full forest cycle from planting to harvest and replanting into account, forestry as a whole is estimated to represent a significant store of carbon dioxide. It would be hugely unfortunate if people misconstrued various aspects of a report and conflated things to turn it into something else. It is well known that forestry and trees are a net capturer of carbon.”
“Some politicians might suggest that this report is fake news. A recent claim that forestry is a net emitter of greenhouse gases was made in a press release issued by Friends of the Irish Environment in response to a report prepared by the Republic of Ireland's Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (DAFM) on greenhouse gas emissions and removals from forestry. DAFM has countered that interpretation, commenting that forests remain a substantial and growing store for carbon dioxide and to look at only one subset of the forest estate can be misleading. <BR /> <BR />The Friends of the Irish Environment press release bases its conclusions on a subset of a report published by DAFM.”
“As well as helping to meet the UK Government's net-zero carbon target by 2050, planting new woodland will help us to grow a strong economy, a thriving environment and healthy, active communities. <BR /> <BR />My Department’s Forest Service is continuing to work with the forest research agency of the Forestry Commission in GB. That research will help to contribute to the understanding of the complex carbon balances associated with woodlands as they are established and grow to maturity. <BR /> <BR />Forests for our Future will become a foundation programme of the Executive’s green growth strategy, which is being developed by my Department. Green growth aims to transform our society towards net-zero carbon by 2050, protect and enhance our environment and sustainably grow the economy.”
“Forestry in Northern Ireland is a net carbon sink. That was recently confirmed in a detailed report published by the UK's National Atmospheric Emissions Inventory (NAEI) on 30 October 2020. The report also projects that that will remain so under a range of scenarios considered in the report. <BR /> <BR />My Department has received advice from the UK Committee on Climate Change on reducing greenhouse gas emissions in Northern Ireland. It recommends increasing the rate of woodland creation to 900 hectares per year as a simple low-cost option to help capture carbon. <BR /> <BR />I announced the Forests for our Future afforestation programme in March, aimed at increasing woodland by planting 18 million trees to create 9,000 hectares of new woodland over the next decade.”
“The development of the facilities under the programme that is being paid for by the UK Government will not be completed until the middle of next year. They have given some money for the development of temporary facilities, which will be available from the middle of December. Consequently, facilities will be available for the veterinarians who are in place at the various ports.”
“I have not, and, traditionally, there has been a slight problem with the recognition of our qualifications at A level, which has maybe made it a little more difficult for top-class students to get opportunities in some of the top universities in Ireland. Consequently, that has led to quite a number of them heading to Scotland and England, where our qualifications are recognised in the same way.”
“As I indicated, because of the brucellosis-free status that we have achieved, staff have been freed up, and organisation can take place in the veterinary division in order to ensure that we will reduce the number of people who need to be recruited as a consequence.”
“We then lose that skill; therefore, a locally based veterinary school would help us to keep that skill base in Northern Ireland, where it is very much needed.”
“There are two issues there. With Northern Ireland receiving official brucellosis-free status, there is capacity in the Department, which is very beneficial, to fill the positions. The second issue is the veterinary school. I would be hugely supportive of a veterinary school. My chief veterinarian is supportive of there being a veterinary school. I believe that the Minister for the Economy is supportive of there being a veterinary school. I encourage the universities to continue to carry out their work on investigating the opportunities for a veterinary school. <BR /> <BR />One issue is that many young people are travelling not just to Ireland, Scotland and England but to Europe in order to study to be a veterinarian, and, sadly, many of them get a job elsewhere and do not return to Northern Ireland.”
“DAERA is planning to employ an additional nine veterinary officers and 14 portal inspectors in its portal branch at the points of entry into Northern Ireland, which are primarily at Larne and Belfast, from the end of the transition period on 31 December 2020. Those additional posts are being filled through external recruitment competitions and the internal transfer of staff.”
“That is being led by HMRC, and it is for it to inform those who are currently in the scheme that they will no longer be able to avail themselves of it. I believe that that has been the case. It is pretty well known within the sector that the scheme is changing at the end of the year. Many of those who have participated in it up until this point will no longer be able to, because of their turnover.”
“Generally, however, sheep and beef farmers will be able to avail themselves of the scheme, if they so desire ,because they will fall within the £150,000 turnover threshold .”
“It should be less of an issue for primary producers. It is something that would have a more significant impact on beef finishers that have been in the scheme. Many of them will move out of the threshold very quickly, because, although their profitability and margins are quite low, their turnover is quite high. I suspect that that is why the Government are doing it: to ensure that the scheme, which is supposed to be a scheme to facilitate making the reclaiming of VAT easier, is cost-neutral. For some of the bigger operators, it is perhaps not cost-neutral. The scheme may have some impact, in that the finished price of beef may be reduced, because of the number of individuals involved who are required to store cattle.”
“Where farms exceed the turnover limit, they can still be VAT registered and reclaim input VAT. The flat rate scheme is intended to be fiscally neutral and not to be more generous than being VAT registered.”
“This refers to valued added tax, which is a reserved matter and therefore the responsibility of HM Treasury and HMRC. The changes that will be made to the agricultural flat rate scheme from 1 January 2021 are that farm businesses can join the scheme if their turnover from farming-related activities is less than £150,000 and that they are required to leave the scheme if that turnover subsequently exceeds £230,000. That brings the scheme into line with the general flat rate scheme. <BR /> <BR />The agricultural flat rate scheme is intended to provide easement from the administrative burden of VAT registration by allowing farmers to receive a payment equal to 4% of their sales value in lieu of VAT paid on inputs. The vast majority of small beef and sheep farmers will continue to be eligible for the scheme.”
“Two issues. On the environmental plans, this was a formative statement that wants to open up a debate as to how best we can do things and how we can better utilise this £300 billion package to support production and the environment. In some areas, farmers will benefit more from environmental aspects than the production end. Whilst farmers would prefer to be engaged in production, for most of them, the bottom line is what really matters. We will focus very heavily on ensuring that we get better environmental outcomes from the money that we invest in single farm payments.”
“It is somewhat incongruous that, whilst the European Union is keeping us in the single market and we then have to apply all the rules of the single market, it did not seek to benefit us with the free trade agreements that it is settling with other people. The European Union clearly wants to keep Northern Ireland locked in in many aspects but not in the advantageous aspects. It should reconsider that. I know that it involved work for the European Union; nonetheless, either it plays fair or it does not play at all.”
“Whilst there are many disadvantages to the protocol, there is one advantage in that we have access to the single market. So, selling to the European Union going forward is not an issue; it is not a problem. Northern Ireland, of course, will have full access to sell to the UK market, which is the strongest market anywhere in Europe. It is the strongest market for beef, for example; it pays a higher price for beef than anywhere in the European Union. We will have access to the UK market, which takes over 50% of our product. The European Union takes around 25% of our product, and the rest of the world takes the other 25%. I am confident that we will be able to utilise and sell well into those markets. <BR /> <BR />I made reference to the European Union free trade agreements.”
“We must ensure that we create schemes and systems that are not punitive but ensure that we can assist the environment at the same time as encouraging good farm practice so that it does not lead to a situation where engaging in that becomes unaffordable for people.”
“I accept what the Member says. Whilst we are moving towards that, and there are very clear environmental benefits from it, there are also agricultural benefits in that there is greater utilisation of the nutrients that are applied to the land and less loss to the atmosphere as a consequence. On particularly steep land, that can be more challenging, and those are issues that we will need to address going forward. Many small farmers will, of course, use contractors, and whilst the contractors have a significant charge per hour for the utilisation of such equipment, they do an awful lot of work in a very short time, so it very often pays better to bring in someone else to do it as opposed to having your own equipment. Nonetheless, the Member raises a valid point.”
“How we spend and utilise that is incredibly important in ensuring that we get to the point where people are productive in bringing in their own finances.”
“Yes, the Member raises that specific case, and that is the sort of investment that is very often required to be sustainable in modern farming. You are looking at investments of hundreds of thousands of pounds just to create something that is viable and produces a way forward. Profitability is key, and how we support our agriculture sector in being profitable is much more important than support packages, because that is how people want to make their living. Where possible, they do not want to be dependent on government handouts. They want to make the money themselves. People who are working extremely hard every day deserve to have a good income on the basis of their hard work. We want to provide a means of ensuring that agriculture remains sustainable, and having an envelope of close to £300 million is a huge asset to us.”
“Things are changing, and ultimately we can do things that will be not only of considerable environmental benefit but of financial benefit. We need to delve into those areas and ensure that we can support farms and agricultural producers as they move to these schemes.”
“I want to do it in conjunction with soil analysis, testing every field in Northern Ireland, which will lead to our having a much greater understanding of the nutrient requirements in Northern Ireland as we move forward on an environmental front. I want us to do considerable work on slurry separation and on the pelletisation of phosphates, because we have too much phosphate. Instead of that going onto our land and ultimately into our waterways, it becomes a marketable product to other parts of the world that are phosphate-deficient. We need to look forward to all those things. We cannot stand still. We cannot do everything in the same way for decades and expect the same results, because the world is moving on.”
“While coastal erosion is not part of my statement, it is a very important issue. County Down has a much softer landscape than County Antrim, which has considerable amounts of basalt and so forth. At Portstewart, I always remark on those rocks that have withstood that battering year after year after year. County Down does not have as sustainable a coastline in that respect. <BR /> <BR />We take coastal erosion very seriously. I am looking at LiDAR mapping all of Northern Ireland. That will involve our coastlines and will be a huge source of information. I want to work with the Department of Finance, which has its own plane, on that, and it will give us a huge amount of information.”
“As a consequence, they produce chicken more cheaply, because the stocking rates are higher, but it is not of the same quality as what is produced locally. We need to be absolutely certain that the public know that what they are buying here is produced to the highest possible standards in eating quality, provenance, traceability, food miles and environmental impact. I believe that, in Northern Ireland, we can produce a product that ticks the A* list on every front. If we can just introduce a few more measures, we will be top rate for every aspect of our food production.”
“I therefore want to build on the fact that people know that food that is grown in their own country is generally food that is grown to a high standard. If I import chicken from some of the places in the world from which we are importing it, I do not have the same assurances that the standards are the same as they are here. People talk about chlorinated chicken. The problem is not with the chlorination of the chicken but with the fact that there is considerable salmonella in the chicken. That means that the chicken needs to be chlorinated in the first instance. The reason that there is considerable salmonella is that the stocking rates for the houses for those chickens are far higher than they are here.”
“I agree with the Member that the Groceries Code Adjudicator is not particularly effective. This year, on the back of COVID, there has been a noticeable switch, with more people buying their own produce than eating out. That demonstrates to me that perhaps the grocery supply chain is not the worst problem that we have, albeit the big supermarkets have massive buying power. The public are quite discerning, however, and they like food that is produced locally when they are shopping in supermarkets. You do not have the same opportunity to do that if you go out to a restaurant or a cafe. <BR /> <BR />There has been a tremendous movement towards buying local. Local butchers' shops and vegetable shops and so on have been doing well throughout COVID, because people have wanted that reassurance.”
“If we are going to wet land that they are not going to be able to use productively, we need to support them financially for the environmental benefit that will be created by wetting the peatlands once again. That is an important piece of work. I am happy to be held accountable for those things. I do not believe that that would be the case if there were an independent environmental protection agency. It would add another layer, but, ultimately, it is for the Assembly to decide.”
“It has a lot of autonomy, but I can be held accountable for its actions in a way that I could not be for the actions of an independent environmental protection agency. <BR /> <BR />One thing that I will be held accountable for is what I want to do for uplands. One factor that has contributed to the loss of biodiversity is decisions that were made in the past to drain areas in the uplands, which made farmland more productive there. We now know, however, that the most harmful factor of carbon capture in our peatlands is a loss of water. The reality is that we need to wet areas around those peatlands once again. One of the things that we need to do with this new scheme is support those farmers.”
“I hear about independent environment agencies, and about independence in general, and then I hear Members say that the courts have not fined someone enough. I hear Members challenge the courts over their fining system all the time in the Chamber. The courts are an independent agency. I hear Members discuss Shared Environmental Services and the quality of its planning advice, and they are critical of it in the Chamber. SES is an independent body. I often ask, "What are we elected to do?". We are elected to be accountable to the people. What is wrong with having a system through which there is accountability to the Chamber for environmental regulation? An independent environmental protection agency would not provide that. I can come to the Chamber and be held to account for the actions of the NIEA.”
“I am happy to engage in qualitative discussions with folks in the uplands as to how best we can take things forward, but I do not believe that a flat-rate system benefits agriculture or a lot of smaller farms, and it is not the way forward for the future of Northern Ireland.”
“If one looks at the payment system for the scheme five or six years ago compared with where it is now, one could not describe those areas as being left behind vis-à-vis others in agriculture. Quite a lot of lowland farms are not particularly profitable, and people need to recognise that. Farming in general is not that profitable. Therefore, we need to encourage farming and farm systems to maximise the value of their product and to market their product in a way that gains the highest income. It is about us providing support to farmers to make real environmental benefits. I am open to ways of doing that, and I am happy to discuss that fully with people in the uplands. They know better than anybody how to make their land productive.”
“That will be removed from the basic payment and be shifted over to the other pillar, which will allow us to particularly encourage younger people to engage in farming. <BR /> <BR />I know a lot of young people who would love to farm but they do not have the land. There may be land in the family, but they just cannot make enough money to get going at it. I would love to encourage more young people to go into farming because it is a great way of life. It is a great career, but young people need to be able to put bread on the table and provide for their family if they go into it.”
“We are looking at how we take away the broad instrument that just gives somebody a payment and does not reflect a lot on the work that they do and at how we make that instrument one that encourages people to engage in keeping appropriate numbers of livestock for their farms and ensures that they are supported to do that. <BR /> <BR />Support for the suckler cow is key. The Livestock and Meat Commission (LMC) has put forward proposals, along with the Northern Ireland Meat Exporters Association (NIMEA) and a number of other organisations, that look at support for suckler cows, beef finishing and so forth. It is important that we throw these things open to discussion and set out an element of it that will go for that type of support.”
“I know the land type in that area, and, ultimately, it is more suitable to suckler, particularly in its southern part, than it is to dairy. The more northern part of Armagh is probably more suitable to dairy.”
“The posh word for sheugh, of course, is "drain". I thought that it was more Ulster Scots than Irish, but perhaps Patsy could educate us on that. Nonetheless, it is a good owl word that is used in the country, and people understand sheugh better than drain. Drains are very often enclosed, and sheughs are always open. Anyway. <BR /> <BR />I know the farms in County Armagh very well. I visit that area from time to time. I talk to farmers from County Armagh.”
“We will be part of the UK's free trade agreements, but why is the European Union not doing that? I understand that the reason why it is not doing that is because there is too much work involved. I suggest that that be reconsidered, because if we are going to be part of the single market, as the EU desired and negotiated with the UK Prime Minister and as was decided by the Westminster Parliament, we should get the advantages of it, not just the disadvantages.”
“On the regulatory aspect of it, the answer is yes: we will align because that is part of the protocol agreement. That is somewhat unfortunate because some of the cross-compliance things do not act to our benefit. Nonetheless, that is where we are. <BR /> <BR />Moving forward, I remind Members that, whilst the protocol kept us in the single market, oddly enough, the European Union does not want Northern Ireland to be a participant in its free trade agreements. I would challenge the European Union on that. If it wants to keep us in the single market, why should it be with second-class citizenship in that single market? If we are producing goods to exactly the same standards as the rest of the European Union, why are we not entitled to be part of its free trade agreement?”