Edwin Poots
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I call Mr Eóin Tennyson. Again, this is Mr Tennyson's first opportunity to speak as a private Member, so I remind the House that it is convention that a maiden speech be made without interruption. However, if you choose to express views that provoke an interruption, you are likely to forfeit that protection.”
“Sorry — Ms Armstrong. My apologies. <BR /> <BR />That the Assembly could, in some way, get that money out when it is a UK Government responsibility. The UK Government have distributed it directly in Scotland and Wales, not through the Welsh Parliament and not through the Scottish Parliament.”
“I have not got time; I am sorry. <BR /> <BR />Ursula von der Leyen, who was in the Republic last week, made some of the most ridiculous claims about the British Government, who have supported Ukraine in a way that no other Government in Europe have and who have never engaged in the activity that was suggested by Ursula von der Leyen.”
“Today, a lot of statements have been made but there has not been a lot of fact behind a lot of what has been said. We have Michelle O'Neill, who walked out of her role as Health Minister — not for six months but for three years — and abandoned her position when we had Bengoa and there were all the problems with nursing that led to the str…”
“I need to deal with the issues first. <BR /> <BR />He referred to the Budget that he produced. No party supported that Budget. The Alliance Party did not support it, because it did not cover policing and prisons. Infrastructure did not support it, because it would not allow it to do the basics of what had to be done.”
“We had a circumstance where Sinn Féin repeated, month after month after month, that there were hundreds of millions to give to the public when that did not exist and when, in reality, Minister Murphy was racking up debt that will roll into next year, which will ensure that that will be a difficult financial year.”
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“Netting is a significant problem when it comes to maintaining our fish stocks in rivers. Are there still netting issues on the loughs? What action is being taken in that respect? I trust that the Queen of Ulster will do a very good job of monitoring illegal activities there.”
“— and I know that Northern Ireland has some excellent food.”
“How will the success of the Year of Food and Drink be judged? I know that I am not much of a drinker, but I am not a bad eater —”
“Does the Minister recognise that over 2,700 regulations have been imposed on the agricultural community in carrying out its duties by the European Union? That is around one for every week that we have been in the European Union. Post-Brexit, can we look at having an enablement culture for the production of food, as opposed to the regulatory one that currently exists?”
“I am not sure that the problem is as great as it was in the past. I do not believe that that is the case. It has not been entirely resolved, and it is still a work in progress. We need to get to a situation in which used tyres are disposed of entirely in a legal manner and in a way in which they are either used for recycling or for producing energy.”
“There are so many opportunities to dispose of tyres in a safe manner. The science has moved on. Pyrolysis and all those things enable us to dispose of tyres in a way that recycles the material for further use, whether in playgrounds or at equestrian facilities. Those are good things. I know that, at one stage, Lafarge wanted to burn tyres with flue liners and so on to ensure that the environment was not damaged, but the process with the NIEA seemed to drag out for a long time. I am not sure whether it is still a runner in a period in which fuel prices are considerably lower, but it would certainly be a great opportunity to produce heat and energy from that source in a way that a company could benefit while getting rid of a waste product at the same time. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the fact that we have the motion before us.”
“The crux of the problem with used tyres is that there may well be individuals — I know that, in the early days, it was very common, and the Minister can inform us of how successful clamping down on all this has been — who are taking money for disposing of tyres but not doing so properly.”
“I thank the Member for that information. That sort of thing is wholly unacceptable. When we get a tyre changed on our vehicle, we pay the company an extra £1 or £2 to dispose of it in a proper fashion. The people who collect those tyres from licensed tyre dealers should therefore be doing their job properly.”
“Yes, I will in a moment. <BR /> <BR />People who were being paid to collect used tyres and were not disposing of them properly caused huge environmental damage, both to the air and our waterways, through the burning of the tyres.”
“This issue has caused problems for a number of years. Thankfully, it is not as big a problem now as it was. Considerable work has been going on to reduce the problem. <BR /> <BR />Mr Ford mentioned tyres burning at particular times of the year. Perhaps he is a bit out of touch, because the burning of tyres on bonfires around the eleventh night is considerably less common now than in the past; the vast majority of bonfires do not now burn tyres. However, a few years ago in Londonderry 90,000-odd tyres were burnt on one occasion. It was nothing to do with loyalism or bonfires. People were being paid —”
“The match yesterday was a truly wonderful occasion. Seeing United beaten 3-1 by Watford was absolutely brilliant. <BR /> <BR />In terms of the work being done, have you had the opportunity to look at Early Intervention Lisburn and how it is being supported by the investment fund? Can you look at how this might be rolled out in other parts of Northern Ireland? Because what you are seeing is transformational difference being made to the lives of youngsters who are almost destined to fail, and who will now have better educational opportunities and outcomes, better employment prospects and better health outcomes. This is an area that badly needs tackled in working-class communities right across Northern Ireland.”
“— that things are not happening, when, in fact, things are happening. We will be involved in those negotiations and will deal with Theresa May, David Davis, Boris Johnson and the key people who will be making —”
“You see, a little knowledge is dangerous, and, thankfully, the Member has dispensed some good knowledge to us. The Ulster Unionist Party has little knowledge because it decided to go outside the camp. It does not know what is going on and then tries to create speculation —”
“<BR /> <BR />Let us be clear: we are in a negotiation period and that negotiation will be led by our national Government. I am proud to be part of the United Kingdom and to put my faith in our national Government to negotiate on behalf of the United Kingdom as a whole. Our Executive will be consistently and constantly in contact with our national Government during those negotiations outlining the issues that are of strategic importance to Northern Ireland. It will not be done by being blasted across the media; it will be done in a very positive manner in the way that government should do it. It will be done privately and will deliver the deal for the people in the United Kingdom.”
“Mr O'Dowd did not give way to me when it was requested, so I will not reciprocate kindly to him on this occasion. <BR /> <BR />People wanted rid of the shackles of Europe. People wanted democracy restored. The public wanted democracy. In my opinion, the first line of democratic government is local government, then it is regional government and then national government. Europe is the most undemocratic element of our governance, yet on environmental issues, for example, over 80% of the decisions taken in the House are cascaded down from Europe. The public rightly voted to get out of Europe. <BR /> <BR />I am not sure where the vision is in the document. Mr Aiken did not do a great job of demonstrating much of a vision. Perhaps the person who makes the winding-up speech will show us where that clear strategic vision is.”
“Businesses will be better off outside Europe because they will have the opportunity to get on with the job in hand.”
“The accession countries were promised in the previous negotiation that they would get more. The only way that they would get more would be if it were taken off the countries that get it now or, alternatively, if Europe were to take more money off the taxpayer to give to farmers in eastern Europe. Greater subsidies were going east, and farmers had the common sense to see that. <BR /> <BR />Farmers voted to get away from over 2,700 different regulations that applied to them as they carried out their daily activities. Farmers were sick to the teeth of being regulated by Europe. Many other businesses are sick to the teeth of being regulated by Europe. The red tape that is being applied to them is unnecessary and holds business back.”
“The problem is that people told us that it would happen immediately; we were not going to have to wait until we left the European Union. We now see the delayed apocalypse predicted by the Alliance Party, the SDLP and others in the House. Thankfully, that has not been the case. <BR /> <BR />I heard someone speak today about farmers as if he was representative of farmers. The farmers voted heavily to get out of Europe. Nationalist farmers voted quite heavily to get out of Europe. That is the feedback that I got. They were told that they were mad, and people said, "You are going to lose out so much". The single farm payment has been guaranteed by the United Kingdom Government for this period of time, and anybody who has an ounce of sense will know that, beyond that time, the single farm payment was going to come down.”
“We are used to shrill voices, excitement and animation when it comes to discussions around Brexit. Today has been slightly less shrill, although some Members have been working themselves up quite well. We were told before all of this, in an attempt to browbeat and scare the public in the United Kingdom, that houses prices would collapse: they have not. We were told that interest rates would go up: they have gone down. We were told that food prices would go up: they have not. We were told that farmgate prices would go down: they have gone up. We were told that share prices would go down: they have gone up. And we were told that an emergency Budget would be initiated, and it has not been.”
“I thank Mr Lyons for giving way. Is it not important to set out a vision in advance of an election and then put that to the people, as this party did? The Ulster Unionist Party put a vision of some kind to the public, but that was rejected, and that is the position that we are in today. The DUP has a vision that has been accepted by the public, and we will work that through.”
“Is it not the case that the former Prime Minister offered the leader of the Ulster Unionist Party tea and sticky buns and he quickly acquiesced, ignoring what the will of people in the Ulster Unionist Party and, indeed, its voters actually was?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does the Member recognise that the argument that he makes is somewhat weak?”
“The 10 million that is required for the airport is augmented by the numbers who are using it. You do not have 10 million passengers using the railway line; you need 10 million passengers going through the airport to get the appropriate number using the railway line.”
“That is a fair comment, Mr Deputy Speaker, and we will try and get back on track. <BR /> <BR />Mr Hazzard has a very substantial job in terms of infrastructure in Northern Ireland. Considerable bounds have been made over the last 10 to 15 years. We look at the road network, at the train sets that have been bought and the quality of those train sets and at lines such as the Bangor to Portadown line, which is so well used. We want to extend and encourage that. We see in the new line to Londonderry that the numbers using it are 225% greater than anticipated. Let us reinvigorate our railways; let us see how we can invest in our railway systems to ensure that we do better. Connecting people in Lisburn and Antrim, who may well be in one constituency in due course, would be a great thing. We can do that together.”
“It does not really matter that much to me.”
“Thank you very much for that very useful contribution, Mr Aiken.”
“I look forward to hearing from Mr Aiken, because the last time I heard from him he seemed to contradict his colleague who spoke earlier. I am completely confused about what the Ulster Unionist position is. Are they supporting the motion? Are they against the motion? Do they want to see the railway re-established? Does Mr Aiken want this service running through his constituency? It appeared that Mrs Palmer did not, so perhaps he can clarify that.”
“Allow me to respond to the point, Mr Aiken. Travelling around England is a nightmare compared with Northern Ireland. Our public transport network is not as good as it should be, and considerable work has to be done on that, but Northern Ireland is a very accessible place, and it takes little over an hour to get from one side of it to the other.”
“Thank you for that, Mr Deputy Speaker. Travelling around England is a nightmare —”
“Yes, I will give way. The rail networks are heavily congested and heavily overpriced.”
“However, when I look at the Knockmore to Sprucefield railway line, it is not beyond bringing back. There is every opportunity to restore that railway line with imagination, conviction and good business sense. That is why we tabled the motion. We do not believe that it will be delivered very quickly, but, nonetheless, we believe that it can be achieved, and we need to focus on it and target it. <BR /> <BR />Mrs Armstrong's last comment about England being so much easier to travel around than Northern Ireland is patent nonsense. Most people who come from England remark on how much easier it is to travel around Northern Ireland than it is to travel around England, where the rail networks are heavily congested.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. It is good to see you in the Chair. <BR /> <BR />Mr Ford and I go back a very long way on this issue. I remember standing in Crumlin with Oliver Frawley fighting the campaign to keep the Knockmore to Antrim railway line open. As I look at mothballed railway lines, particularly at one that runs through my constituency between Lisburn and Banbridge, I think of the time that would be taken off the Belfast to Dublin rail route if that line had been kept open, so avoiding Lurgan and the problems that arise every so often when some brave Irish heroes think that they will achieve a united Ireland by blocking the railway line between Belfast and Dublin. I can only look with regret at the mothballing of that railway line, which is probably beyond bringing back.”
“We need to divest ourselves of the regulations that Europe has imposed on us. That will give business and farmers and many other people great opportunities to move forward, deal with the rest of the world and take this challenge on in a very positive way.”
“<BR /> <BR />Things such as the border issues need to be discussed, and we will work very closely with the Republic of Ireland Government to ensure that there is as little change as possible as a result of this decision and that people will be able to enjoy all the benefits.”
“Fair enough; you are hearing an internal unionist argument. I will complete that before I touch on what you had to say. We are a one-nation United Kingdom and that one nation has made a decision. It is for Parliament — our sovereign Parliament at Westminster — to enact the democratically expressed will of the people of this United Kingdom. If we split Scotland, as some people want to suggest, are we going to split Northern Ireland as well? It was very evident that many constituencies in Northern Ireland voted to leave. This nation will be staying together and Nicola Sturgeon will fail in what she is doing.”
“Quite clearly, many Ulster Unionists walked away from the guidance and leadership of Mr Nesbitt to back the leadership of the DUP. If any leader is considering their position today in this Chamber, it is the leader of the Ulster Unionist Party, who has been exposed and found wanting. He failed miserably in the Assembly election, and he has failed to provide good, solid leadership to the people of the Ulster Unionist Party over the course of this referendum.”
“It is for the people to decide on what role he has. I think that the people decided very convincingly at the Assembly election, but he decided to cling on to his position and become leader of the Opposition as a result. Ironically, there were all these people who were saying that we would break up the Union if we voted "Leave", but the nationalists in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland all wanted to vote "Remain". The unionists who joined them — the Ulster Unionists — joined the nationalists and, indeed, the republicans to say vote "Remain", when clearly the people voted for something different. <BR /> <BR />In Northern Ireland, the DUP lifted 207,000 votes at the Assembly election and 350,000 people voted to leave the European Union.”
“Thank you for giving me the extra minute — I will give way again if you let us know how you voted, Mr Kennedy.”
“It is to do with the challenge by Mr Nesbitt to the First Minister. Nonetheless, he has been grovelling about on his stomach in the dust and now wants to spit it out at us this morning, having failed, and failed miserably. People had a reason for voting not to stay in Europe. Indeed, most of the former leaders of the Ulster Unionist Party voted not to stay in the European Union, including past leaders Tom Elliot and David Trimble. Mr Nesbitt does not command the support of his own party.”
“Our First Minister went to the country just over a month ago and received a vote of 207,000, which was an increased mandate. Mr Nesbitt went to the country and received 87,000 votes, which was a decreased mandate. Mr Nesbitt managed to take the leadership of the Ulster Unionist Party when it was at rock bottom and take it down further. He has been grovelling about —”
“I find it ironic that the proposer of the motion is none other than Mr Nesbitt, particularly after reading today's newspaper and his comments about people considering their positions. Mr Cameron called a referendum and Mr Cameron lost that referendum in spite of throwing everything, including the kitchen sink of Downing Street, at it. There were many inaccurate and untrue statements which the public, wisely, chose to ignore. By Mr Nesbitt's logic, Carwyn Jones should also resign, but he did not mention that this morning. Indeed, in his own Strangford constituency, 5,000 more people voted to leave than to remain. So, by his own logic, he has lost his own constituency and he should resign. <BR /> <BR />We go back to the principle of the standing of our First Minister.”
“I thank the Minister for her response and wish her well in her role. TB will be one of the biggest challenges moving forward, and there has been no significant improvement over the last 30 years. Minister, you have the TB partnership working group, and I assume that it will look at the full extent of TB and, therefore, that our efforts will not be restricted to the bovine population but extend to the wildlife population in seeking to identify a means of better dealing with TB and driving those figures down towards what they are in the Republic of Ireland and, indeed, Scotland.”
“— and I wish the Minister well in doing that.”
“Therefore, we're actually fining you and are taking money off your single farm payment", in spite of the fact that, legally, he could not sell or move animals off the farm. Those sorts things need to be dealt with. <BR /> <BR />The wreckage of DOE has left huge challenges in that respect that have to be dealt with —”
“Thank you. <BR /> <BR />No, absolutely not. If you give the same people that unfettered power, they will potentially be even worse in how they conduct themselves. <BR /> <BR />Last year, one farmer in County Down shot himself after an NIEA visit, such was the pressure that he was put under. That is the significance of what those people do. I was speaking to another farmer recently who has TB as a result of the inability to deal with the badger population in his area. In fact, it had been found that all the badgers that had become roadkill had type 2 tuberculosis, which is the one that is transmissible to cows. As a consequence of that, he has had six herd tests. When his animals went up over a certain level, NIEA came in and did a farm inspection and said, "You've too many animals on your farm for the slurry tanks.”
“That was produced for £9 million — very thick files. We will need to see an effort by the Department to move away from the grand spending scheme that was previously proposed and find a means of developing a more cost-effective system there. <BR /> <BR />NIEA as an organisation is detested in the rural community. It treats farmers as criminals until proven otherwise. We need to have a serious look at the role of the NIEA and how it conducts its business to ensure that those in the agriculture community, who have been the custodians of our countryside for many generations, are able to do their jobs in a way —”
“I challenged it consistently throughout that period that it does not need to spend that amount of money on a computerised system to monitor the movement of animals and that it could do something considerably less. We managed to produce an electronic care record, which contains the records of 1·8 million people. It is transferable between the primary sector and the hospital sector.”
“It is important that we have a healthy bovine population and a healthy wildlife population. Ignoring the problem or dealing with one section of the problem — removing the bovine population that has TB while not removing the badger population that has TB at the same time — will ensure that we continue to expend public money on not dealing with the problem. That money could be better spent elsewhere, such as on health, education and justice or on improving our farm businesses. <BR /> <BR />There are other significant areas of challenge. We have had a lot of focus on moving offices from greater Belfast to other areas. There has also been a notion of creating a new computerised system to replace APHIS. At one stage, the Department was looking to spend somewhere in the region of £40 million.”
“Tuberculosis is something that most of the general public do not hear much about, but we spend £30 million every year on it, and we are not reducing the problem. Interestingly enough, I sat in a North/South meeting where the last Minister, Michelle the second, wanted to have a greater all-Ireland strategy, and Simon Coveney challenged her on where we were on TB. We could not move forward on what Sinn Féin wanted — an all-Ireland health strategy — because of the TB situation, and the Government in the Republic of Ireland would not accept that. <BR /> <BR />The reason why Mrs O'Neill would not move forward with the Irish Government on TB was because of the protection of badgers. The Irish Government had a completely different attitude to that which existed in Northern Ireland.”
“Funding is a critical issue in the Prison Service, and it is an area that I think she needs to address. Taking money from the legal aid budget to ensure that prisons are safe environments where people come out with the opportunity of reform is something that we should all aspire to and have fewer people in the justice system as a consequence. <BR /> <BR />I want to make some remarks in respect of DAERA. It is a very interesting Supply resolution period, given that many Departments have come together, and it will be interesting to see whether the funding has truly followed the responsibilities. Miss McIlveen has many challenges ahead of her in DAERA, not least because of the inability of the previous Ministers to deal with TB.”