Edwin Poots
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I call Mr Eóin Tennyson. Again, this is Mr Tennyson's first opportunity to speak as a private Member, so I remind the House that it is convention that a maiden speech be made without interruption. However, if you choose to express views that provoke an interruption, you are likely to forfeit that protection.”
“Sorry — Ms Armstrong. My apologies. <BR /> <BR />That the Assembly could, in some way, get that money out when it is a UK Government responsibility. The UK Government have distributed it directly in Scotland and Wales, not through the Welsh Parliament and not through the Scottish Parliament.”
“I have not got time; I am sorry. <BR /> <BR />Ursula von der Leyen, who was in the Republic last week, made some of the most ridiculous claims about the British Government, who have supported Ukraine in a way that no other Government in Europe have and who have never engaged in the activity that was suggested by Ursula von der Leyen.”
“Today, a lot of statements have been made but there has not been a lot of fact behind a lot of what has been said. We have Michelle O'Neill, who walked out of her role as Health Minister — not for six months but for three years — and abandoned her position when we had Bengoa and there were all the problems with nursing that led to the str…”
“I need to deal with the issues first. <BR /> <BR />He referred to the Budget that he produced. No party supported that Budget. The Alliance Party did not support it, because it did not cover policing and prisons. Infrastructure did not support it, because it would not allow it to do the basics of what had to be done.”
“We had a circumstance where Sinn Féin repeated, month after month after month, that there were hundreds of millions to give to the public when that did not exist and when, in reality, Minister Murphy was racking up debt that will roll into next year, which will ensure that that will be a difficult financial year.”
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“Absolutely. We are working with the Department for the Economy on those issues. There are tremendous opportunities to market Northern Ireland's produce. We have exceptional produce, and that is why much of the food sold by Fortnum and Mason and some of the finest sales companies around the world that sell fine-quality foods can come from Northern Ireland businesses.”
“Yes, I do. That is why we have followed it up. We have spoken to various agencies on the issue. We recognise that there is an opportunity to create an efficiency, a benefit for the land and a benefit for the people renting that land, if they can do it in a way that helps them to make long-term investments, as opposed to having the uncertainty of a year-on-year rental that means that they could lose the land and therefore do not invest in it.”
“We have had the conacre system for many years. We have written to George Eustice. We have looked at what is happening in the South of Ireland. We are asking Her Majesty's Treasury to ensure that, if people take land on lease and invest in it by putting up new gates and fencing and by providing lime, which is a key piece of work that will reduce the carbon that that land produces, they get tax relief on that investment. That would be a significant step forward.”
“There is a particular issue, and I will not run away from it: we do not have enough staff. I have asked for a paper to be submitted to me so that we can get more staff into that area and ensure that decisions can be turned around proportionately. Our staff are under a lot of pressure. As a result, we are not taking calls about what stage applications are at in the process. It was causing considerable delay to deal with those calls, and it is better that staff are focused on getting applications out the door. <BR /> <BR />On longevity and the amount of time that people wait, I should say that the Department for Infrastructure has some longer waiting times than the NED. Perhaps, the Member could address some of his attention to that, and, together, we can improve the process.”
“I have held meetings on that and have asked for more staff to be put into that area of work. There is clearly a problem. I trust that not just our Department but other Departments will look at that to ensure that we have a system that is fit for purpose.”
“I trust that the Member's party will be wise on this and take the right decision, as it fully understands all of the implications of taking the wrong decision, so that we have vibrant farms that can supply food and energy to the people who live in this country and export them.”
“We had a circumstance when horsemeat, which is not traditionally used in the United Kingdom, was moved around all of Europe. The Member may wish to reflect on the food security of some of those whom she would prefer to be with. <BR /> <BR />Food security will become ever more important for the UK Government. In the past, some people foolishly advised that the UK did not need to have farms. COVID is a clear demonstration of the importance of having a commodity such as food close to home. Energy security is also critical. Look at the circumstances today where energy is being switched on and off as it suits particular Governments. Look at the prices that people pay. Our farms have a significant future ahead of them if we let them and work with them, as opposed to imposing things that will decimate them.”
“If we look at the prices that farmers receive for milk, meat, lamb and cereals, we see that the prices for all of those products are up. Prices in the pig sector are down, and the chicken sector has proven to be stable. Since Brexit, all those prices have gone up. I would have thought that the Member would welcome that.”
“We helped to launch the Paws for Thought campaign last week, which is focused on people acquiring dogs. I was at a shelter where they had nine pups, all of which had had pneumonia. Even after the pups had had substantial treatment, you could still hear that in their chests. <BR /> <BR />There is so much opportunism with dogs. Dog theft is a big thing. People need to ensure that their dogs are kept in secure areas and that, when they are out and about, they have their dogs under control so that they do not run off, get lost and give someone the opportunity to steal them. There are people who go round the countryside stealing dogs, particularly younger pups, which are very valuable in today's markets. They are easy pickings for thieves, and people need to be aware of that.”
“We want to work closely with the Department of Justice, particularly in providing an animal register, a register of offenders and so forth. There are different kinds of people who keep dogs. The vast majority of people, thankfully, love and adore their dogs. However, there are also those who see dogs as a commodity that they can profiteer from. Everyone who has a responsibility for this — my Department has a significant responsibility — needs to identify how best to make it difficult for such people and do what we can to ensure that they cannot profiteer from animals that the rest of us regard as family members, in most instances.”
“I will give advice more to the House. I want the House to take everything into account before it makes decisions, including the fact that it could drive many small family farms out of business. That may be an easy decision for a Member for South Belfast or a city constituency, but Members who represent rural constituencies should be very cautious about ensuring that people who live in their community can no longer engage in a business that has been transferred to them for many generations. The House has the ability to take something from farmers that nobody else can. Nobody else has ever done that.”
“The KPMG report was an independent report, and it recognised that the impact would be greater in the Fermanagh and Omagh District Council, Mid Ulster District Council and Newry, Mourne and Down District Council areas. Those areas account for 43% of Northern Ireland's land farms that are located in less-favoured areas. I have just received a question on ANCs not very long ago. Those are the areas that will be most impacted as a consequence of our actions in dealing with climate change, because they happen to have more peatlands. It is very evident; all the information that we receive is about restoring peatlands and removing them from permanent pasture. That will lead to circumstances where many of the farms in your constituency will be under pressure not to farm actively. That will be a significant debate.”
“I can understand that the Member may wish to unpick the process that has taken place, and I have no doubt that others will seek to unpick it in another forum. They are entitled to do that. I followed the advice that was given to me on the issue. If people wish to take that to another forum, that is a matter for individuals or organisations, but I believe that whatever decision we made would have been challenged by one or t'other. We made our decision on the basis of the best information that was available to us at the time.”
“I was provided with a considerable amount of information by my officials on the issue, and I was provided with their views on whether, in terms of the environment, it was possible to do that safely. I am clear that I followed the recommendations and advice that were provided to me by my officials.”
“The price of fertiliser is the same for every farmer, not just farmers who live in ANCs. Of course, farmers in ANCs got significant uplifts in funding through the way in which the single farm payment is now distributed. Consequently, had we kept the ANC payments as well, that would have meant removing payments from a significant number of other farming families who, as demonstrated through the figures that DAERA receives each year, have lower incomes than the farmers whom the Member referred to. A party that speaks a lot about fairness, justice and equality might want to apply that when it comes to this issue.”
“We also worked closely with DFI on the scheme to provide rural transportation, and we used that rural transport scheme to provide food and medicines to elderly people who could not get out. As opposed to taking people to the town or village to get their goods, we brought the goods to them. There has been good cross-departmental collaboration to assist people in rural communities.”
“During the COVID outbreak, Carál Ní Chuilín, the former interim Minister for Communities, and I brought together a scheme that supported urban small high street businesses and rural small businesses. The scheme ensured that we were able to give those businesses fairly significant support. Many were able to buy equipment that enabled them perhaps to change how they had been doing things during COVID.”
“In the current year, my Department has secured £21 million, and it is using that to provide support in rural areas affected by the COVID pandemic. <BR /> <BR />An equality and human rights screening exercise was completed, and the policy was screened. The completed equality impact assessment (EQIA) screening document is available on the DAERA website. A rural needs impact assessment was also completed.”
“After examining the nature and extent of the financial losses that had been incurred, I felt that there was a strong economic rationale for providing financial assistance to agriculture and horticulture businesses. That assistance would be targeted at the farm businesses hardest hit financially and would enable them to deal with short-term market disruptions that would substantially impact on otherwise viable businesses. <BR /> <BR />My Department secured £41·7 million in 2020-21 from the Executive for a range of COVID-19 support measures, including £25 million for market interventions in the local dairy, beef, sheep, potato, pig, poultry, wool and ornamental horticulture sectors, which was the most comprehensive allocation made by any UK or EU Administration during the coronavirus emergency.”
“The Executive Office, through the COVID-19 recovery plan, has assessed the needs of all dwellers, urban and rural, as a result of the pandemic. Those needs are reflected in the ongoing roll-out of the COVID-19 recovery action plan. My Department is contributing to a number of actions documented in the plan that are targeted at rural dwellers and businesses, such as the COVID-19 recovery revitalisation scheme and the tourism recovery action plan. In addition, a number of rural stakeholders, when responding to the public consultation on the rural policy framework, expressed concerns about COVID-19 recovery, and those will be addressed through the framework. <BR /> <BR />At the outset of the COVID-19 pandemic, I met agriculture industry representatives and stakeholder organisations to assess the impact that it might have on them.”
“The aim of that programme is to bring together small clusters of rural businesses and other partners to work closely on developing a range of products and experiences that can be promoted individually or as a combined experience. In those clusters, people are operating in the same field. For example, people producing artisan foods are linked up with the providers of the raw materials and further linked up with markets for their products. Those are the types of things that we wish to encourage.”
“They set out to target rural needs, to drive up the number of visitors to rural communities and to ensure that small rural businesses that are never going to be tapping into Invest NI funding can get those modest grants — £20,000 to £50,000 in the main — that can make a real and substantial difference to the viability of their business.”
“DAERA has been leading on a number of projects that provide real and significant benefits to rural communities. We have engaged a whole series of schemes through the tackling rural poverty and social isolation (TRPSI) framework. For example, we have pilots on a website development programme, a rural tourism collaborative experiences programme, a rural microbusinesses growth stream, a rural social economy investment scheme, a micro food business investment scheme and a rural community pollinator scheme. There is then a whole series of other established programmes. <BR /> <BR />Those mentioned are all pilot schemes, but they are innovative.”
“We directed the funding towards halls that had never previously received funding. One of the things that we wanted to ensure was that, when the hall operators got the funding, they would be in a better position to avail themselves of public funding in future. We believe that it is important to provide them with the necessary skills and support, and that is why the training was part of the programme. Our intention was that the funding would not just be a one-off and that, when it comes to other developments that could be carried out for the benefit of that rural community, the operators would be better placed to do that. That is why we carried out the training. At this point, it is probably too early to ascertain the success of the programme, but, nonetheless, we believe that it was very important that it was carried out.”
“I thank the Member for his question. It is quite shocking to see how poor some of those facilities are. This funding, which could provide disabled access, a kitchen that can meet normal health and safety standards, new fire safety controls or, perhaps, heating in some of the halls that are still using coal fires, has been demonstrated to be absolutely necessary. A lot of small halls are in rural communities that have been left behind. <BR /> <BR />We have proceeded with the scheme for 50 halls at this stage. We are looking to see how we can further assist the 114 applications in total that demonstrated that they could and should be funded. We did not have the financial capacity to do that, but we are looking at how that could be done. Given the demand for the programme, we are looking at how it could be mainstreamed in future.”
“At this juncture, it is anticipated that the first 30 organisations will have the majority of their refurbishment works completed by 31 March 2022, and the additional 20 will be completed by September 2022.”
“<BR /> <BR />The scheme guidance stated that the number of projects anticipated to be funded would be 30. However, I secured funding to enable 50 eligible applications to be included in the pilot scheme. That will result in training and refurbishment funding of just under £2 million for a total of 50 voluntary and community organisations. An initial 30 organisations have completed their training, and, as of today, 16 letters of offer to the value of £562,000 have been issued, with a further 14 to the value of £474,000 expected to be issued next week. A further 20 organisations will commence their mandatory Managing Your Space training in early December and should receive their letters of offer in March 2022, with an estimated letter of offer value of £665,000.”
“My Department's rural halls refurbishment scheme closed for applications on 11 June 2021, with a total 211 applications received. The first stage in the assessment process was to rank the applications according to their Northern Ireland super output area access-to-services domain, after which officials worked through the eligibility process for each application. When that concluded, 114 applicant organisations were deemed eligible for the scheme, with 97 deemed ineligible. <BR /> <BR />All ineligible applicants have been informed that their application has been unsuccessful, with the reasons for that decision provided in their correspondence. Those applications that were deemed eligible but not shortlisted due to funding constraints have also been advised of the outcome of their application.”
“The numbers of pigs that are available to the plants and the capacity of the plants to slaughter those pigs could be picked up if there was more Saturday working and things like that happening. I trust that that will be resolved in the not too distant future.”
“A number of interventions could be made. One would be an on-farm cull. Personally, I do not think that that would be a particularly positive thing, because the UK is still a net importer of pork products and requires high volumes of pork products. There is a demand there. Therefore, slaughtering and rendering perfectly good food that there is demand for is not really a route that I want to go down. I have also suggested that we could consider reducing the population of pigs right back to birth, but, again, the processors do not like that idea. The issue at this moment is that there are more pigs available than there is slaughter capacity, although we are talking about an amount that is on the margins as opposed to being in the many tens of thousands.”
“I do not think that it is in the long-term interests of the industry. It is important that producers and processors have that sound working relationship where they may have a degree of competitiveness but where, ultimately, a trust exists. The sooner that that issue is addressed and that cut of £13·50 is reduced, and reduced considerably, the better. <BR /> <BR />That particular processor imports a lot of pigs from the Republic of Ireland. It is very unfortunate to have a problem dealing with the numbers of pigs that are available in Northern Ireland, which do not run into really large figures when you drill down to it. When meal prices are high, processors need to be cognisant of that and ensure that they are not putting their suppliers in a really difficult financial positions.”
“They are thinking about Third World countries and so forth, but fair-price farming should apply across the board. Farmers in this part of the world should receive a fair price for their products, because many of them will be in difficult financial circumstances. Many of them are having their income augmented and subsidised through income support measures, and people should reflect on that.”
“We have had a series of discussions with the pig sector, which is going through a pretty difficult period. It was raised with me last week that one processor had made a cut that, many of the farmers felt, was excessive. I have not seen a clear demonstration of the justification for that cut in pig price, other than, perhaps, a bit of oversupply. Nonetheless, there is considerable demand for the product across the UK and beyond. <BR /> <BR />If you want to have long-term relationships with suppliers, it is important that you treat those suppliers well. I encourage all processors to do that; to develop those long-term relationships; and to ensure that the suppliers who provide them with the product are in a profitable circumstance. Often, you hear people talk about fair-price farming.”
“The best way of achieving the best prices for food is having the best food available. Northern Ireland's food is amongst the best food in the world, and, therefore, its prices should be at the leading edge. We should do everything that we can to ensure that animal health, animal welfare, food traceability, food provenance and the environment, as well as quality, are at the top end in everything that we do, so that, when it comes to commodity food, perhaps, being imported at a lower price, we are able to demonstrate to the buyers and consumers that Northern Ireland food is the best that they can get and, therefore, is worth paying a bit extra for.”
“They include productivity, environmental sustainability and improved resilience, as well as an effective, functioning supply chain. I intend to bring forward a public consultation on proposals for future agriculture support measures shortly. I look forward to engaging with all those in the industry as we move forward in developing better and improved support measures for our agri-food sector.”
“My officials will continue to work with DEFRA to further explore the Northern Ireland-specific issues and to ensure that any UK legislation in the area would be appropriate for the Northern Ireland sector. <BR /> <BR />Regarding information on prices, my Department is consulting to seek views on the possible introduction of mandatory sheep carcass classification and price reporting in Northern Ireland to improve fairness and price transparency in that sector. Carcass classification and price reporting is already mandatory in Northern Ireland for bovine and pig carcasses. <BR /> <BR />I am pleased to have recently published the 'Future Agricultural Policy Framework Portfolio for Northern Ireland'. It sets out a framework for future policy around four key outcomes developed following engagement with stakeholders.”
“I am committed to raising the issue of fairness for all farmers in the marketplace. However, the price that farmers receive for their produce and that others pay, at any point in the food supply chain, is a commercial matter and therefore not within my remit. I am pleased that Northern Ireland dairy processors, farmers and stakeholders had the opportunity to make their views heard on how contracts are used in the sector through the 2020 UK-wide consultation on contractual arrangements in the dairy sector. The aim is to promote transparency and to improve the position of the primary producer in the dairy supply chain. That consultation was led by DEFRA, as the regulation of anticompetitive practices, including the regulation of contractual relationships, is a reserved matter, under schedule 3(26) to the Northern Ireland Act 1998.”
“A considerable element of the checks on live animals have always taken place. I have indicated that I am happy to assist the European Union to ensure that goods with the potential risk of entering the Republic of Ireland are checked on its behalf. They should pay for that, mind you, because it prevents goods from entering the European Union through Ireland, and those checks should not be paid for from our purse. Nonetheless, we do not have to do those checks at Newry or the Fermanagh border; they can be done elsewhere. They do not have to be done at the ports either. However, we can do that, and that should be separated from the goods that are to remain in Northern Ireland. There should be no internal barriers between Great Britain and Northern Ireland in that circumstance.”
“Yes, we have. It would be illogical to transfer veterinary staff to carry out checks on, for example, groupage, where a lorry carries maybe 300 different food items to be used in a store such as Sainsbury's that does not have a base in the Republic of Ireland. Yet, that is being requested of us. If the Member believes that checking such goods, which pose no threat to the European Union's single market, would be a good use of a veterinarian's time, as opposed to dealing with issues such as bovine TB, Johne's disease and the many other issues that are looked after by the Department's vets, he should stand up and say that. I do not think that it is a good use of a veterinarian's time.”
“My veterinary officials have proved to the European Union, beyond all reasonable doubt, that this causes no danger, impact or harm to the European Union's single market and, therefore, at this stage, any potential delays are political delays.”
“I will clarify for the Member that livestock checks have taken place at the port of Larne for around 20 years, and certainly since the foot-and-mouth outbreak. Those checks ensure that the fine animal health status that we have here is maintained and should not be confused with the impact of the Northern Ireland protocol. However, the European Union has made it incredibly difficult for people who show livestock in Great Britain. That has been hugely damaging to the pedigree sector and, indeed, for the important importation of lambs from Scotland, which generally happens at this time of the year and augments our hill farms in particular. Considerable work has been done by veterinary officials to deal with all of those issues.”
“Were there welfare issues, my veterinarians — people who specialise in animal welfare — would be obliged to draw them to my attention, and they have not done that. If they have those issues, I am sure that they will draw them to my attention.”
“An associated range of enforcement measures are available to Department officials, including formal notices, a penalty-based system for transport authorisation, disqualification and potential prosecution.”
“<BR /> <BR />For animals moving to Great Britain through Larne port, a general welfare assessment is conducted on all consignments to ensure compliance with the relevant welfare legislation before onward travel is permitted. Those checks are in addition to similar checks completed by the certifying official veterinarian (OV) at the premises of origin. For dogs, an assessment is made of the animals' fitness to travel and the conditions of travel only where it is a commercial transaction or there are more than five animals being transported. The same documentary checks as for livestock relating to the transporter and the vehicle apply to the transport of dogs. <BR /> <BR />Should any adverse findings be disclosed during welfare inspections, all affected animals will be detained and treated in accordance with the nature of the findings.”
“Welfare checks on all animals moving through Larne port are conducted by a veterinary-led portal inspection team. In relation to imports, all farmed livestock are unloaded at approved facilities, where a detailed veterinary health and welfare assessment is completed before any onward travel is permitted. For other species, the same general rules apply to welfare checks. Those animals, however, are generally inspected on the vehicle and unloaded only if a welfare problem is suspected. In addition, documentary checks are completed as part of the overall welfare assessment to ensure that the vehicle is approved and fit for purpose, the attendants are competent and the journey is in line with legislative parameters.”
“As the objective of the Bill is to seek the full reinstatement of support under the horse racing fund as soon as possible, and, as amendment No 2 in particular ensures the delivery of that, I call on Members to support both amendments in this group.”
“I point out that, while new clause 4A allows for the payments from the fund for eligible spend incurred prior to the Bill's enactment, it deals only with the calendar year 2021: the period after the end of the EU-exit transition period, when UK subsidy control rules will have applied. Any payment before that will be a breach of EU state aid rules that continue to apply to that period. Despite that, I believe that the amendment will be warmly welcomed by both racecourses. <BR /> <BR />I, again, take the opportunity to thank the Chairman and members of the AERA Committee and other MLAs for their contributions to the debate at Second Stage and today.”
“Providing Down Royal with the scope to comply with the legislation for that period by submitting a statement of 2021 expenditure after Royal Assent will mean that both racecourses will be able to claim for expenditure incurred in 2021. Clause 4A also allows for the submission of statements of expenditure and plans for 2022, which, in turn, ensures that payments can be resumed as soon as possible after the Bill is enacted. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Committee for raising the issues of the payments for spend incurred by the racecourses in the period before the Bill is enacted, which amendment No 2 seeks to deal with.”
“However, as I have already said, I agree with the need for a strategic review to look at these things and, where necessary, to do this in cooperation with DFC, given that Department's responsibility for licensing of gambling in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />The amendments are in keeping with the Bill's key aim of enabling reinstatement of funding as quickly as possible. As I said in my introduction, amendment No 1 is simply housekeeping. Amendment No 2 does two important things: it enables payments to be made from the fund for eligible spending incurred by racecourses in 2021, and it ensures that payments can be made in 2022. That can be done without delay. <BR /> <BR />Downpatrick has submitted the necessary paperwork for 2021, as noted, but it is not eligible for the payment due to subsidy control rules.”
“Therefore, extending the beneficiaries of the fund at this stage to include greyhound racing, for example, or to support point-to-point racing without an extension of the levy, would mean that the level of support available to the two racecourses would be reduced, as payments from the fund would continue to rely only on the levy gathered from physical bookmakers. That reduction in the level of support would be unplanned and have an unintended consequence that the Department did not consult on. Hence the narrow focus of the Bill was necessary for it to meet its aim to fully reinstate funding as quickly as possible.”