Edwin Poots
South Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I call Mr Eóin Tennyson. Again, this is Mr Tennyson's first opportunity to speak as a private Member, so I remind the House that it is convention that a maiden speech be made without interruption. However, if you choose to express views that provoke an interruption, you are likely to forfeit that protection.”
“Sorry — Ms Armstrong. My apologies. <BR /> <BR />That the Assembly could, in some way, get that money out when it is a UK Government responsibility. The UK Government have distributed it directly in Scotland and Wales, not through the Welsh Parliament and not through the Scottish Parliament.”
“I have not got time; I am sorry. <BR /> <BR />Ursula von der Leyen, who was in the Republic last week, made some of the most ridiculous claims about the British Government, who have supported Ukraine in a way that no other Government in Europe have and who have never engaged in the activity that was suggested by Ursula von der Leyen.”
“Today, a lot of statements have been made but there has not been a lot of fact behind a lot of what has been said. We have Michelle O'Neill, who walked out of her role as Health Minister — not for six months but for three years — and abandoned her position when we had Bengoa and there were all the problems with nursing that led to the str…”
“I need to deal with the issues first. <BR /> <BR />He referred to the Budget that he produced. No party supported that Budget. The Alliance Party did not support it, because it did not cover policing and prisons. Infrastructure did not support it, because it would not allow it to do the basics of what had to be done.”
“We had a circumstance where Sinn Féin repeated, month after month after month, that there were hundreds of millions to give to the public when that did not exist and when, in reality, Minister Murphy was racking up debt that will roll into next year, which will ensure that that will be a difficult financial year.”
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“A range of Departments and, indeed, local government have a significant role to play in the registration of dogs, licensing and all of that. It is critical that each of the Departments that have a role plays that role to ensure that we identify and address any issues. We have issues with people who produce pups in less than desirable conditions. Where that is brought to our attention in the veterinary sciences end, our vets will deal with that. They will follow that up and ensure that animals are kept in welfare-friendly conditions. I give the commitment that our veterinary division will follow up any complaints or where its attention is drawn in any way to animals being kept in less than appropriate conditions.”
“More needs to be done. A number of Departments could be involved in that, as well as local government, to ensure that animal welfare is a high priority and, therefore, that the welfare of dogs and pups is made a priority.”
“Unfortunately, puppy farming has not gone away, and I think that the Member and a number of other Members have asked questions about the export of pups through our ports here in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />People's dogs produce pups, and many people are doing that in a very sustainable and appropriate way. They love their dogs, and a female dog may produce a litter or two in its lifetime. Those people sell the pups, and that is entirely reasonable. However, there are others who are exploiting dogs and selling them to people who do not realise that they are buying something that has come from a puppy farm.”
“Glenwherry hill farm is very exciting in that it has straightforward good management practice. We have seen the reintroduction of many species such as the hen harrier, snipe, curlew, red grouse and many other bird species indigenous to Northern Ireland that were lost or whose numbers were way down. In fact, we recently had a golden eagle at Glenwherry. <BR /> <BR />Agricultural practice on the farm is done in a way that still delivers growth rates of, for example, 1·2 kg per day for each suckled calf whilst delivering huge environmental benefits. It is about how we can develop and use that skill base on facilities like that and apply it to other farms so that they can maximise what can be achieved environmentally whilst maximising what they can achieve agriculturally by producing good-quality food.”
“The rural uplands have many opportunities. We have a lot of blanket bog in Northern Ireland, which captures vast amounts of carbon. Sometimes that blanket bog has been undermined by, for example, inappropriate tree planting, and the trees have absorbed a lot of the water that would end up in the bog. The drier the bogs, the more carbon they release and the less carbon is captured. We are looking at that. However, for those farms that have reclaimed land around bogs and are benefiting from it, that land will end up being wetter and therefore not as useable, so we need to identify and compensate those farmers so that we can ensure that the carbon capture takes place and that it is not one individual or a number of individuals who take the pain of doing that through loss to their business.”
“I thank the Member for the question. I suggest that it is more embarrassing than anything for the Member of Parliament for South Down to come out with the statement that he did, given that, as I believe, the ordnance dates back to the Second World War. We should be glad of anybody who was prepared to risk their life in order to make the ordnance safe. I am greatly appreciative of the people who served in the Second World War, such as Captain, now Sir, Tom, who demonstrated bravery to us not only back then but bravery and resilience to us now in their response to COVID-19. Perhaps the MP from South Down could learn something from someone who served in the British Army, like Captain Tom.”
“We can do a lot to become carbon neutral in Northern Ireland over the next 20 or 30 years. For example, over 40% of our power comes from renewable sources, which is way above the proportion in any other part of the UK. We can go much further than that. If you want to make big savings in terms of environmental benefits, agriculture, the energy that we use and transportation are the three key areas. We can tackle all three areas and make this one of the greenest places to live in the world over the course of the next generation.”
“Northern Ireland has seen a lot of growth in agriculture over that period. The Member must remember that Northern Ireland, as small a country as it is, produces around 10% of the food for the needs of the United Kingdom. So, we are punching well above our weight in agriculture. We can also punch above our weight in delivering our agriculture in an environmentally responsible way. That is something that we can work on with the farming community. Going into a circumstance and starting to direct people on what they should be doing generally does not get the best response. Going in with a spirit of cooperation, assisting and helping where possible, will deliver real results. That is what I am about: results. <BR /> <BR />We can make a really big impact for good on a lot of the reductions, and not just in agriculture.”
“That will involve a capital infrastructure programme, which will mean that we, as an Executive, will need to support it financially.”
“So, if we can have more separation in the slats that are provided for animals to lie on, that will be part of a range of work that will proactively reduce ammonia levels. <BR /> <BR />We can probably get a reduction of 15% to 20% quite quickly, which is significant in and of itself, but getting much further than that will require significant investment. The capacity to make that investment does not exist in agriculture, and it will therefore require support from the Government if we are serious about it. <BR /> <BR />I have asked my officials to bring forward proposals that would look at how we can get to net zero in agriculture. Those proposals will include ways for us to deal with the ammonia issue at the same time.”
“Yes, we can. I would like a wide and potentially all-embracing means of addressing those issues, and ammonia is a key part of that. We believe that we can reduce ammonia emissions by, for example, stopping slurry spreading that uses the traditional splash plate in most instances and moving to a low-emissions spreading operation by 2025. We are giving people some time to acquire the appropriate equipment. That is a course of work that will help. <BR /> <BR />Covering open tanks would also reduce the amount of ammonia, and there are opportunities from having more separation of slurry because it is when the urine and the faeces mix that you get the greatest release of ammonia.”
“That is not a matter that I am taking forward. The senior responsible officer is looking after it. I do not wish to see any further point-of-entry developments at Warrenpoint port. I have made that clear to George Eustice and others. However, the UK Government wish to see it. They want to pay for it. They have given very clear expectations to the senior civil servant in this case who is taking it forward. That is the case. I have no legal remit to stop it, in that all the advice that has come from the Departmental Solicitor's Office and indeed the Attorney General indicates that a ministerial direction to an official which would oblige that official to break the law is not one that would have any standing.”
“A good question is whether everybody is prepared to do that, because, at this stage, one of the issues outstanding relates to IT. There seems to be an issue with an IT system that has been used in the UK for many years and the EU's non-acceptance of it, which will almost certainly ensure that we are not operationally ready. There is quite a number of issues where that is a live problem.”
“I encourage the Member to visit Glenwherry hill farm, where there has been a massive increase in the number of curlew, hen harrier, snipe and all the other species. That has been done on the basis of good management. I would like to see that spread out right across Northern Ireland.”
“I am happy to work with the farming community and other parties on how we bring this forward. Doing nothing is not an option. We need to reduce the amount of ammonia that is currently going into the environment in Northern Ireland. We also want to encourage people to be able to have a business that will support their families. I believe that both are achievable. I will work with the hill-farming community and other members of the community to deliver on that.”
“Therefore, a series of tools has to be used to reduce the carbon footprint and protect the environment.”
“I would have thought that the Member from the Green Party would want to ensure that we have a better environment and would be supportive of what we are doing in this instance, because we are working to ensure that we get a significant reduction in ammonia. <BR /> <BR />I should add one other thing in reference to our peatlands and bogs. A bigger issue than ammonia in our bogs is the dryness, on many occasions, of our bogs, and the wetting of peatlands would achieve more in capturing carbon than what was being proposed on ammonia, what was being done on ammonia and even what we would do on ammonia.”
“I believe that they are, yes, particularly in the light of the fact that we are working extremely hard to bring forward proposals that will, in actual fact, reduce ammonia. In instances where ammonia could actually be reduced because a new building was replacing an older building and better practices were in place, SES was arriving at decisions and refusing those proposals. That was entirely illogical, because you were getting an investment in a business and reducing the ammonia coming out of that business but the business was still getting a refusal. That type of thing has to be knocked on the head. We are working to ensure that, over the next number of years, we will see real reduction in ammonia. Why continue with a planning procedure that is not working when you have the opportunity to put in place something that will work?”
“My Department is developing a comprehensive strategy to address the ammonia challenge. The draft strategy will propose a series of farm measures to reduce ammonia, conservation actions to improve the condition of habitats, and a revised operational protocol for the assessment of air pollution effects. We intend to publish these proposals for consultation soon.”
“The Government's instruction remains that people should work from home if they can, and many people across the Province continue to do that. On the one hand, I am very supportive of people working from home, but I also want to ensure that we get 100% productivity, and, for many people, that will be case. However, in some areas, it is a little more difficult if we do not have people in offices. With some of the services that we provide — for example, DAERA Direct offices — we need people in offices to provide that face-to-face service, with social distancing and all of that. That is critical going forward.”
“<BR /> <BR />As part of the green growth strategy, we will be setting up — I will certainly be requesting that it is set up — an inter-ministerial group that will oversee that. Through that group, we will work appropriately with the other Departments to ensure that we have a cleaner and greener Northern Ireland going forward. We should all aspire to that.”
“As part of my green growth strategy, we will look at all opportunities where we can support businesses and agriculture to continue to grow but in a more sustainable way. I want to see growth on the one side and a reduction in emissions on the other, so that we are reducing greenhouse gases and the carbon that goes into the atmosphere whilst allowing growth to take place. That is essential for our economy and it is essential for our young people as they go out looking for jobs. We cannot go backwards and be regressive when it comes to creating opportunities for our young people to get jobs here. It is important that, on the one hand, we get that growth but, on the other hand, seek to challenge issues around the environment.”
“What has been forced upon us, in terms of people working from home, has demonstrated that there was a much greater opportunity to work from home than was recognised before COVID-19. It is important, however, that people are brought back to their places of work, where is it possible to do that safely. Even in the Departments, by not having as many people in our offices, we are not fulfilling our roles just as well as we otherwise would. At the same time, there are massive opportunities for people to be at home for two, three or four days a week. That will, obviously, have significant benefits in reducing travel, pressures on the roads and all of that. <BR /> <BR />I am totally with you on people working from home but not to the detriment of the service that they are providing. Government and, indeed, others need to reflect on that.”
“Officials are working with external contractors to look more closely at the trends in pollutants during lockdown to consider the relevant atmospheric chemistry and reactions that occur between pollutants, and to assess the extent to which any changes brought about as a result of lockdown, such as an increase in homeworking, have had any influence on trends in air quality. <BR /> <BR />My officials will continue to monitor the data collected. I encourage everyone to download the new Northern Ireland Air app to receive the most up-to-date information on the quality of air across Northern Ireland.”
“Apologies, Mr Deputy Speaker. I like to look at the person who I am responding to. <BR /> <BR />My Department continually monitors the quality of air across Northern Ireland. That includes monitoring pollutants such as particulate matter and nitrogen dioxide. Given the respiratory nature of COVID-19, my officials continue to monitor air quality levels across Northern Ireland on a daily — and, if necessary, hourly — basis. Where necessary to protect public health, a high air pollution alert is issued. <BR /> <BR />Throughout the lockdown period, officials provided weekly updates to the departmental operations centre and to the Committee, as required.”
“People and businesses are looking at a range of products, including hemp and eucalyptus, and the opportunities that they offer. Some of the alternatives will use huge volumes of water, which is not good, and some will be considerably heavier and therefore have a greater impact on the transport industry, take up more space and, in turn, be less efficient. All those things will be looked at. Some larger companies are working hard to ensure that they can meet their environmental obligations. We will support, chivvy along and encourage — and seek to enforce, where necessary — companies to do their bit to ensure that we produce a better environment.”
“There is no date as yet, but it is a course of work that the Department is doing. There has been a considerable reduction in the use of single-use plastic bags, for example. I need to consider the reusable bags, because there is a fair bit of evidence that a lot of people are not using them a lot more than once. They may buy a reusable bag but use it only once. I need to look at those issues and consider upping what we are charging for single-use plastic bags, as well as putting an additional charge on reusable bags so that we can encourage people to reduce the number of bags that they use. That has been a big success story so far, and I trust that we can build upon it.”
“Absolutely. That is something that the Department will look at. CAFRE provides the most amazing services to businesses, including in food development. We are privileged to have the facility at Loughry college in Cookstown, which is in the Member's constituency. A lot of work is done there on packaging, because it is critical that we do packaging well and in a way that has least impact on the environment. That is the goal of everyone in the House.”
“I would consider it, but, as I indicated in the first paragraph of my initial response to this question, plastics are not exclusively bad. Nonetheless, we need to reduce the amount of plastic that we are using, particularly plastic that is used from virgin materials, and we need to ensure that that plastic is recycled and reused and does not end up in our oceans or landfill. It is important that if we are going to use plastic, perhaps on occasions when there may not be a better alternative, that we ensure that it is used appropriately thereafter and does not end up in our oceans.”
“There is potential to do it other ways, such as returning the barcode to reclaim your deposit. It may not be about sending all the material back to the initial manufacturer. There may be other and better ways of doing it.”
“My Department has consulted already on a deposit return scheme. We have asked for further evidence and analysis to inform a decision on the way forward. I want to make sure that any deposit return scheme is right for Northern Ireland, draws on the evidence and on what works elsewhere in the world and achieves our goal of reducing litter from drinks containers and improving their recycling. Specific details on a scheme will be developed and presented in a second consultation. <BR /> <BR />I know that there are concerns in the industry about the DRS. I have seen evidence of other ways of doing it. For example, a barcode could be put on an item. You could then deposit it in your green bin, but that would mean that it was going to be recycled.”
“CAFRE is working with food and drink processors from the Northern Ireland Food and Drink Association (NIFDA) to facilitate better engagement between the manufacturing sector and policymakers to help create an improved, shared understanding of the use and potential reduction of plastic in food packaging. <BR /> <BR />A further significant area of work by the Department is on the reform of the UK-wide packaging system, leading to an extended producer responsibility (EPR) scheme. That places responsibility on producers for the full net cost of managing their products once those products reach their end of life. Producers will be incentivised through the introduction of modulated fees to reduce unnecessary and difficult-to-recycle packaging and to design and use packaging that is recyclable.”
“Membership of the pact also enables the Department to use its contact networks to share innovations, data, analyses and reports with businesses. <BR /> <BR />Packaging technologists at DAERA's College for Agriculture, Food and Rural Enterprise (CAFRE) have assisted the local food and drink sector with 50 knowledge and technology transfer projects this year. As well as helping local businesses to select the most appropriate packaging type for their product to optimise its quality, shelf life and cost-efficiency, CAFRE's technologists actively support businesses wishing to explore sustainable alternatives to plastic packaging.”
“We must be careful not to demonise all plastic. Plastic packaging has many beneficial properties, such as prolonging the life of food, which reduces harmful carbon emissions from food waste. Plastic packaging not only protects food from damage but is very light and significantly reduces the transport-related climate emissions of the many food items that are shipped around the UK. That said, DAERA has joined the other UK Administrations in becoming a member of the UK Plastics Pact (UKPP). In contributing to the pact, the Department is directly funding the work of its organisers, the Waste and Resources Action Programme (WRAP), to develop and disseminate approaches to reduce the environmental impact of plastic packaging.”
“Again, all these species are, first and foremost, the responsibility of those who have ownership of properties. The zebra mussel issue has been going on for some time, I understand, particularly in Lough Erne. It is a big problem for boat owners, and it is certainly something on which I am happy to correspond further with the Member.”
“The EU Invasive Alien Species Committee is responsible for the listing of species of Union concern, as opposed to my Department. The EU IAS Committee explains that some well-known IAS are not listed, either because they do not have a risk assessment, the risk assessments do not include some of the information required by the regulation or there was insufficient evidence that the species met the criteria for listing. In this instance, there was insufficient evidence for the committee that inclusion of Japanese knotweed on the Union list would effectively prevent, minimise or mitigate its adverse impact. As a result, the IAS Committee decided that the listing would not be able to make a significant difference to a species that was already so widely spread throughout the European Union.”
“Giant hogweed was recently designated as a widely spread species (WSS). For WSS, the regulation requires effective management measures to be put in place, so that their impact on biodiversity, the related ecosystem services and, where applicable, human health or the economy is minimised. Management measures consist of lethal or non-lethal physical, chemical or biological actions aimed at the eradication, population control and containment of a population of species of Union concern. My Department is, therefore, being proactive and following up every record of giant hogweed entered via the official monitoring scheme and is requiring detailed management measures to be supplied by all landowners.”
“The Invasive Species Ireland website, managed by departmental officials, provides full guidance on confirming ID, management techniques and legislation, and the associated social media streams provide up-to-date news and information. My Department continues to encourage and fund, via the environment fund and environmental farming schemes, many community groups, non-governmental organisations, farmers and landowners to carry out management and removal of invasive species from their land, prioritising designated and high-value biodiversity sites.”
“The Department has commenced working proactively with landowners in relation to the 11 widely spread species, to advise them of their responsibilities and to secure management measures from those landowners on how they plan to manage and remove the species from their land. My officials are currently following up on over 60 of those queries with a variety of landowners, including farmers, business owners, councils and other Departments and agencies. <BR /> <BR />My Department has also produced multi-agency plans for high-risk species that have not yet arrived in Northern Ireland, such as the Asian hornet, along with pathway action plans with a biosecurity focus to endeavour to close down potential routes for IAS to arrive in Northern Ireland.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Invasive Alien Species (Enforcement and Permitting) Order (Northern Ireland) 2019 came into force in December 2019, giving the Department more effective enforcement powers to take action against 66 species of European Union concern, including 11 widely spread species. The underlying EU regulation not only makes it an offence to permit the spread or release of any of those species but makes it illegal to sell, keep, import, breed or cultivate any of the 66 — 30 animal and 36 plant species — with a special emphasis on the 11 widely spread species. There is now an expectation, as part of a national obligation, on landowners to manage and remove those 11 species from their land.”
“My Department is aware of the negative impact that invasive alien species (IAS) can cause to the local environment, with an invasive alien species strategy launched by the then DOE in 2013 detailing actions such as targeted eradication, awareness raising, research and development. The ongoing strategy has brought together many different stakeholders, including local councils, NGOs and other Departments and agencies such as the Department for Infrastructure, Forest Service, the Agri-Food and Biosciences Institute (AFBI) and the Loughs Agency to work towards dealing with the threat of IAS.”
“As has the Republic of Ireland. Two applications have been made to CRD, and it has rejected both applications. However, it is very apparent that the materials that have been recommended are not fit for purpose for the job that is required. Diquat was not removed from the market because of the danger to consumers; it is more about its users. However, these are all significant issues. There has to be another material found to replace it, and I have to take all those matters into consideration but have asked for further updates so that I can take everything into account and give a final decision on it very soon.”
“I know that a number of countries in Europe have already given exceptional consideration to that and have granted its use.”
“I have had several submissions on that. I had a conversation yesterday, and I am to receive a further submission today. The chemicals regulation division (CRD) is the advisory body, and CRD has advised that we should not use it at this stage for a number of reasons. It has come from the European Union, in the first instance, that it is not something that it wishes to be used any longer. However, the recommended replacements are not working, and therein lies the problem. When farmers go to harvest their potatoes, they find that it has not done the job properly. Therefore, this year, I need to consider whether I can allow farmers to use diquat as a means to burn potatoes off. That is something that I am giving consideration to.”
“Well, thankfully, we have had a couple of weeks of drier weather, and, for some people, potato harvesting has already started. There is an outstanding issue over an EU-imposed obligation that material that was previously used to burn off potatoes is no longer available. That has caused considerable problems in the desiccation of the potato crops. One suggestion was that, if the plants do not desiccate properly and the stem does not separate from the potatoes, the farmers could flail the potatoes, flail the tops. However, the wet weather has a consequence for that, and it is clearly unsuitable to put heavier tractors and flails in to do that. Farmers would not be capable of doing that, so that is a cause of significant concern.”
“My Department's assessment is that the recent wet weather in August has caused some localised flooding in parts of the Kilkeel and Newcastle areas and has led to some disruption of blight control programmes and difficulties with the desiccation of potato crops across Northern Ireland. As we now move into the main period for potato harvesting, DAERA staff will continue to monitor the situation as the effects of waterlogging on a potato crop are difficult to evaluate until a number of weeks later, usually at harvest. Furthermore, the DAERA staff will continue to provide technical advisory support to Northern Ireland potato growers to maximise business performance.”
“I am aware of that, and, being legal matters, those things will be tricky. I will want to have full assurances on those matters and to know that we are fully compliant with the law in how we conduct ourselves.”
“I am perfectly happy to support such a proposal, if it comes forward from the Department for the Economy. Coleraine is an entirely logical site. I know that it has been talked about for some time. There was also talk, certainly some time back, of private sector support. We have significant interests, both in production and on the agriculture side, in having such a facility and that qualitative training. It would be a major boost for Ulster University to have it, and it would really help to move things forward at the Coleraine campus.”
“Yes, I would, particularly on the basis that a lot of our young people are having to go outside the UK to study veterinary science. In our veterinary practices, there are many people who have come from outside Northern Ireland — outside the United Kingdom and Ireland, for that matter. It is quite common to have vets from many parts of Europe, for example, working here in Northern Ireland. I do not have any issue with those people working in Northern Ireland, by the way, but I think that it is much more sustainable to have vets who have been trained at home, have stayed here and will carry out the work here. I am very supportive. The agriculture industry needs that professionalism and that skill base. We need a facility like that, even for qualitative research to happen, so I am very supportive of that.”
“Yes, we intend to announce further tranches of the farm business improvement scheme. That is a course of work that we will continue to do, and hopefully we will make those announcements in the not-too-distant future. I did have to deal with some issues so that people would actually get the planning permission to carry out the developments that they are proposing. We need to recognise that these developments will ensure that people are able to stay in the countryside, that there are more jobs in the countryside, that there is more support for local towns and villages and the shops and businesses that are in those villages, and that there are more employment opportunities for the young people who are brought up in rural areas.”