Peter Weir
Strangford · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Funding was secured for that scheme, and we have been able to take further steps on it. As highlighted by my colleague Diane Dodds, we have seen my successor, the current Minister, be able to implement it at the beginning of September 2021 and funding be made available for it.”
“One of the great fears — I saw it particularly, as Education Minister, from the point of view of children and the domestic setting between partners — was what was going to happen in families when the doors closed and the locks went on. What was happening behind closed doors?”
“There is another significant element of the Bill. I have spoken about it in the Chamber on a couple of occasions. There is always a slight danger that we, as legislators, see legislation as being the end of a process and think that we can pack it away, put it on the shelf and forget about the problem because it has been solved.”
“I welcome the passage of the Bill's Final Stage and commend all the campaigners who have pressed so hard for it and the Bill sponsor. For Pat Catney, hearing some of the tributes must be like hearing eulogies at your funeral, without having to go through the indignity of dying, which is always a double advantage.”
“As highlighted by a number of Members, the impact of period poverty, though not confined to it, has been particularly acute in young women's education. We know that the impact can lead to the missing of education and constraints within education, and that it does so in a disproportionate way.”
“I support the Bill's Final Stage, and I commend the Bill's sponsor for introducing it. I thank the Minister and the Department for the positive attitude that they have taken towards it.”
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“Given the initial experiences of roughly a year ago, when I think everybody was probably scrambling to try to make sure that they could fill the gap, the preparation of remote learning has been a lot better, as has, indeed, acknowledgement from September of last year onwards. That has meant that we have seen a much more consistent pattern of teaching, and I think that is very much to the credit of teachers and staff. I do not think that any pupil should be disadvantaged, particularly when they are compared with those who are doing GCSEs in a different jurisdiction.”
“It should not be a question of two years being crammed into one. We have given a situation with GCSEs that means that there can be unit omissions in the bulk of cases. We also have to realise that, while this year has clearly not been as robust as has been the case elsewhere, teaching has gone on. On the unit assessments, because of the omission of units and the fact that schools will be in a position, through CCEA, to follow a particular pattern, there is no reason in any course why, effectively, two years' teaching should be truncated into one. <BR /> <BR />We should also remember that, because of the valuable work that our teachers are doing, teaching has gone on throughout the pandemic.”
“Consequently, the work that has gone on reflects where we are with the pandemic and tries to ensure that Northern Ireland's position enables portability and the comparability of our examination results with those of other parts of the United Kingdom.”
“We are in a slightly different situation. I am a little bit unclear as to the specificity of the Member's question. We have had different levels of disruption to the progress of GCSEs, and that has to be taken into account. It will be best if we can reach a point where, in line with what is happening in other jurisdictions, we begin to move back to a situation where we have examinations. As part of that, be it GCSEs, AS levels or A levels, there is a need to have a similar playing field across the whole of the United Kingdom so that our pupils are not disadvantaged, either by the perception that they are given an unfair advantage in their GCSEs, which would, then, count against them when it comes to employers or universities, or, indeed, that we create a higher hurdle.”
“I will view whatever evidence is there. In addition to meetings, a development proposal frequently offers a window of opportunity and time for people to submit letters of support or to raise concerns, which could also be about the process. I can give an assurance that all the evidence will be looked at before any decision is taken. However, because the Department and I, as Minister, are responsible for that decision, I cannot comment on whether there is merit in any concerns about processes. Nevertheless, that will be looked at.”
“As the Member is aware, because the Department and, more specifically, the Minister is the decision-maker, those exercises give me an opportunity to hear what is being said by those who are presenting the information. A record is kept of the meeting, which forms part of the evidential base when a decision is taken on the development proposal.”
“I do not want to give an inaccurate answer. I am not immediately aware of having personally received that request. I have no problem with meeting the representatives of Straid Primary School, and that, I believe, would be in relation to a development proposal. <BR /> <BR />There is a particular period in which I am able to meet to discuss development proposals. As such, quite often, that has involved a school or, sometimes, elected representatives. For example, without prejudice to any decision, I have met with the Member's new party leader in relation to Craigavon Senior High School. I will be meeting representatives of my own party on that issue later on this week. I am always happy to receive those requests, and it is fairly routine that I would receive a range of representations.”
“That is why any actions that ultimately emerge around changing the dysfunctionality of the General Teaching Council — there are different routes by which that can be pursued — should be comprehensive in nature and ensure that we have solutions for all the problems, rather than being a patch-up job, which is where the GTC is at the moment.”
“I think there are concerns. There have been concerns for some time about the remit of the council and, indeed, its effectiveness. It is important that action is taken on foot of the review. However, that may also mean that, if there is an area that is not 100% covered by the effectiveness review, that should not place a limitation on what action should be taken. I have been concerned about the potential that exists to bar a teacher who has, perhaps, been convicted of a serious offence that could create child safety issues.”
“It is important that, once those findings emerge from the review, there is an expedition of what needs to happen in terms of the General Teaching Council. Obviously, at this stage, I cannot directly prejudge what the answers will be in terms of that effectiveness review.”
“I thank the Member for her question. There have been question marks over the General Teaching Council for some time. I am aware of the recent resignations from the General Teaching Council. As part of that, as the Member may be aware, I commissioned from the Department an independent board of effectiveness review that will examine whether the GTC's current composition, structures, standing orders and internal procedures continue to provide a robust basis for its operation. That review is due to report within a number of weeks. Rather than simply trying to fill a particular immediate gap, we need to receive the findings of the review. It was commissioned, and a private company won that commission after a tendering exercise and is, therefore, doing it independently.”
“Absolutely. The whole point of area planning is to have all sectors around the table at the one time. Part of the problem in area planning was a level of disruption because of COVID. There is still a little bit of further work to be done to find cross-sectoral solutions at times to particular problems. There is a still a bit of work needed within sectors to break down a bit of a silo mentality. That work is progressing, and area planning, in terms of all the formal structures, tries to ensure that all the key players from the different sectors are around the same table at the same time.”
“We have always got to make sure that there is somewhere physical for pupils to have their education.”
“I am happy to write to the Member about that. If we are talking about the time since that sector came into existence, then it will clearly stretch back over many, many years. A little bit of work would probably need to be done to establish the exact amount. <BR /> <BR />Where action is being taken, for instance, at the Coláiste Feirste, it is to meet particular need where there is demand for places. From that point of view, this is not about giving any preferential treatment. It is about trying to treat all sectors equally. For instance, there will probably be temporary arrangements made at Coláiste Feirste this September to be able to deal with that situation as it has outgrown its numbers. In a similar way, in other sectors there are numbers requiring additional temporary accommodation before there can be a fuller move.”
“I will give more specific details. There have been initial examinations, and, as the Member will be aware, land in north Belfast is relatively scarce, perhaps more so than in most areas. As a second string to this, my officials have engaged with the Strategic Investment Board for it to carry out a search of properties. It is important that we do not necessarily rule out potential sites, particularly when we are looking at a post-primary school that will cover quite a large area. Consequently, the commissioning brief covers the greater north Belfast area and goes into the wider Newtownabbey area, as well as looking at potential sites closer to the city centre.”
“My officials have been working with representatives from the Irish-medium sector over the last number of years to try to identify a suitable site for the post-primary Irish-medium school in north Belfast. We recently met the principal of Coláiste Feirste and representatives of the Member's party via Zoom. I have also physically been to Coláiste Feirste. <BR /> <BR />As part of that examination, several site searches have been carried out, and, while detailed consideration has been given to a number of sites, as yet, an appropriate site has not been identified. However, I assure the Member that my Department will continue to work with the sector and go beyond any scoping that we can do to establish the location for a second site.”
“As such, while the Education Authority will provide the critical incident team, I do not think that it is directly informed of the cause of death by the coroner's office. I referred to 33 sudden deaths, many of which have been suicide, but there is no breakdown of how many of those have been suicide and how many have been other forms of sudden death.”
“There have been indications that, over the last three years, there have been 33 critical incident visits where there has been an unexplained or sudden death. A large percentage of those were probably directly as a result of suicide. However, there is a bit of a disjoint in the numbers, because the critical incident team has to be there on the ground, generally speaking, on the day on which the death has taken place or, at the very latest, depending on notification, the day after. With suicides and other unexplained deaths, often, even if it is very apparent, any official direct recognition would come through the coroner's office, and it will then establish whether it is a suicide or a death by misadventure or some other form of medical sudden death intervention.”
“However, the loss of a young person is always particularly difficult and pertinent, both for their friends and family. In many ways, it goes against the natural order of things. Any death is terrible, but, when an elderly person dies, it is, perhaps, seen as their time. It is very difficult for those who are at the school, their teachers and the family to cope with the passing away of a child who is under 18.”
“As I mentioned earlier, there were 145 critical incidents during the past three years. Of those, 33 were related not necessarily to suicide but to sudden or unexplained death. The EA critical incident response team is the first point of contact. Follow-ups can be done through professional statutory agencies or, indeed, the expertise that exists in the voluntary sector and various charities. The team can draw down help from those two sectors, but it is the first point of assessment in that. <BR /> <BR />One of the saddest duties that I have had, which is not the most high profile, has been, during periods when schools have been in session, to try to make a quiet visit to a school when there has been a suicide. One can clearly sense the difficult atmosphere. Schools have been very good at coping with those situations.”
“If we find that there are additional pressures, there is always the opportunity to put resources in and then try to backfill those, if you like, by way of a bid in a monitoring round, so that we can react as quickly as possible.”
“The indications are that we are able to cope with what is there at present. For example, we have been able to draw down some counselling sessions for the summer and front-load those into May and June. As I said, there was probably the expectation of a considerable spike when children resumed school. At this stage, at least, it seems as though children's overall level of resilience is such that, fortunately, the level of trauma has actually been a lot less than anticipated. <BR /> <BR />However, with the new emotional health and well-being framework, which is sponsored mainly by my Department but is assisted by the Department of Health, there is an opportunity, as we move ahead to next year, to put greater resources in place for that.”
“However, there is a danger, particularly with COVID, that we may see a certain level of delayed trauma: children may be very good on day one, but where they are on day 101 might be different. We need to be ready for all those situations.”
“The most obvious example is when a traumatic death has taken place. Quite often, the impact will be on the classmates of the person who is involved. Similarly, there can be an impact when a teacher has died. Most pertinently, we have, unfortunately, seen a number of incidents of the suicide of a young person. It is in those situations that the critical incident response is directly involved. However, individual counselling is available through the ICSS. <BR /> <BR />The Member makes a valid point: there probably was the expectation that there would be a large spike upon the resumption of counselling. That has not really happened. The service has been able to cope with that.”
“To some extent, there are probably two separate issues there. There is already an independent counselling service. Question 4, which has been withdrawn, might have covered that matter. We have also recently received some funding for a counselling pilot for primary schools, because the Independent Counselling Service for Schools (ICSS) currently focuses purely on post-primary schools. That is different from the critical incident team, which is not about dealing with a particular issue involving an individual but more about the impact of a particular critical incident on the children of the school.”
“I thank the Member for the question. It will involve a few statistics. The Education Authority has advised that, over the past three years, from September 2018 to 17 May 2021, the EA critical incident response team has been called out to 145 critical incidents. To some extent, COVID has had a impact on the direct breakdown in the current year, because the critical team will deal with a range of pupils. From September 2018 to August 2019, however, there were 67 critical incidents. From September 2019 to August 2020, there were 51 critical incidents. From September 2020 to 17 May 2021 — the latest figures that we have — there were 27 critical incidents.”
“I will gaze into my crystal ball. I do not know whether there have been discussions in TEO. I do not know whether there has been any formal position of opposition put forward by the deputy First Minister. All that I can indicate is that my party colleague the First Minister is in support of repeal. I am in support of it. Ultimately, the remit for the legislation lies with another Department, but maybe the Member is suggesting that, if there is a vacancy there, I could unlock that issue, but I suspect that that is not necessarily what he is saying. I cannot speculate on what is happening with legislation in another Department.”
“We have moved from best guesses to 'Guess Who?', which, from memories of my youth, is a game in which you have to establish whether somebody has a beard or is bald etc.”
“I am not aware of any. I am glad to hear what you said, as it suggests that there is broad unanimity across the Chamber. I am not aware of any outside objection, but, because the legislation lies ultimately within the purview of the Executive Office, it may have a greater insight into whether someone is creating concern or disagreement; indeed, that may be smoked out through the consultation on the private Member's legislation. The Chair of the Committee, albeit he is acting in an individual capacity, may get a better insight into whether there is any level of concern or opposition, what the basis of it is and whether there is any rationale behind it, or it may simply be that everybody is in favour of repeal.”
“Yes, in principle and, hopefully, in practice as well. Obviously, I have not seen the finished draft of what the Member intends to propose, so I am somewhat limited. I am sure, however, that my colleagues on this side of the House and I will support anything that looks to repeal article 71.”
“Members probably think that I am frequently in the habit of making guesses, maybe not even believing that they are my best guess. It is difficult for me to drill into what is in other people's minds. I know where you come from and where my party comes from on the FETO issue. I also know that the Chair of the Education Committee is consulting on private Member's legislation on the issue. I can only indicate that the First Minister — the issue lies with TEO — has stated publicly that the blockage is not on the FM side of TEO. If there are concerns or reservations about proposed legislation and the matter lies with a Department beyond mine, it is probably up to that Department to say what, it thinks, a particular stumbling block might be.”
“Mr Speaker, you had me worried briefly when you said that question 4 had been withdrawn. I thought that we were heading straight into question 5. <BR /> <BR />I am committed to delivering equality for all school sectors. I have written to the Executive Office in support of repealing article 71 of the Fair Employment and Treatment (Northern Ireland) Order 1998 (FETO). I know that that has broad support across the Chamber. <BR /> <BR />FETO is the legislative responsibility of the Executive Office, and any amendment to that legislation would ultimately be a matter for it to address. While my Department will not be in the lead in taking the matter forward, DE officials will facilitate and act as the point of contact through to the education sector and work with TEO on any further consideration of the matter.”
“I can understand parents' concern when they do not see a place for siblings. Much of the problem at St Bernard's seems to derive from the way in which admissions criteria have been designed. <BR /> <BR />We will continue to work on it. The Department can give a temporary variation to any school to increase admissions. However, beyond what was initially allocated to St Bernard's — I think that there was a small temporary variation — no further cases have been submitted by CCMS or the school for additional places. We will look at any situation, but we can only respond to requests from the school; we cannot retrofit from above with regard to what the number of places should be.”
“With primary-school places in South Belfast, again, there has been some allocation of additional temporary variation places. If the Member can bear with me for a moment, I will find the information. This year, additional places have been allocated to St Bernard's, St Joseph's Primary School in Carryduff and St Ita's Primary School. We are acutely aware of the situation with St Bernard's, and the allocations will be confirmed on 12 June. It is up to schools to set their admissions criteria. However, the advice that the Department has been giving for some time — indeed, we tried to work with the Council for Catholic Maintained Schools (CCMS) on this — is that siblings have not been prioritised by St Bernard's; rather, the school's top criterion is that pupils are from that parish or the neighbouring parish.”
“For September 2021, additional temporary places have been approved at Aquinas Diocesan Grammar School and Wellington College; indeed, further places have been approved elsewhere. While, strictly speaking, Lagan College, which, I know, was part of the wider debate, geographically falls within Strangford, it draws strongly from the south Belfast area. Therefore, further places were approved on that basis. <BR /> <BR />Students are due to be notified this Saturday, I think, of the allocations, and, if there is further pressure because there has been a lack of allocation for some pupils, there is an option that further places can be made available —”
“The Member may be stealing Ms Bradshaw's later question — question 7. It is a good way of getting in at an earlier stage. <BR /> <BR />With regard to sufficient places for those transferring, there is the obvious issue that there is a development proposal from the integrated sector, but, as I said, I cannot comment directly on that. That is a matter for the direct development proposal. I am acutely aware, as I indicated before, that South Belfast in particular tends to act as a magnet for pupils from well beyond its boundaries and, as such, probably has the largest number of pupils coming from outside the constituency. <BR /> <BR />Even if a development proposal is agreed, it will take some time to work its way through the system. Consequently, the short-term position is dealt with by way of temporary variations.”
“Given that the Department and, more specifically, the Minister will then give the legal determination on any development proposal, it would be inappropriate for me to comment on any potential development proposal, because I could be seen to be prejudging an application. That is a quick way to end up in court, but I understand the Member's point.”
“When looking at any development proposal, a range of things are taken into account. For instance, when considering an integrated school, the statutory duty on the Department will be considered, and, where there are any development proposals across the board, we look at their impact on children in the area. <BR /> <BR />Clearly, during Question Time, I can answer only in the capacity of Minister. The Member mentioned a change in numbers, and that would require a development proposal. The problem is that it is the managing authority, which is the Education Authority (EA), that instigates a development proposal.”
“I was not expecting cheering crowds from the side.”
“I will deal with a couple of those points.”
“Also, while the admissions figures are below the recommended total number for a post-primary school, the number of applications has grown in recent years, and its enrolment and admissions figures are always completely filled. It has been able to fill those positions, and I believe it has also availed itself of temporary variations.”
“Strictly speaking, the only circumstances in which a formal assessment of the sustainability of a school is undertaken is when a development proposal (DP) has been published that seeks to make a significant change to provision. There is no published proposal for Saintfield nor, to the best of my knowledge, is there a plan for a proposal. Therefore, I do not propose to undertake a formal assessment of that nature at this time. <BR /> <BR />Like the Member, I am sure, I have visited Saintfield High School on a number of occasions. It is a very successful school. Financially, it is in surplus, so it has a level of security in that way.”
“As we move ahead in education, one of the key aspects is to look at where there is best practice, try to share that best practice and show what models work in different circumstances, albeit with the truth that one size will not fit all. What works in the middle of Belfast may not work the same in rural Tyrone, for instance. It is about that shared learning. The joy of professionals sharing their experience can be very valuable.”
“I am happy to endorse the good work that happens. I acknowledge the professionalism of those people in doing their jobs, but there are also many people in the system who go well beyond their hours of work. My staff do not get many compliments, but, perhaps, it is also appropriate to say that some of them work well beyond the times that they are supposed to work. Those involved in education, particularly in schools and the Youth Service, do not see it simply as a job; they see it as a vocation and a calling. Many of them deliver what is there. <BR /> <BR />Sometimes, there is a tendency in the system — be it in education or other areas — to keep to ourselves the good ideas that we see being delivered and that are successful and make a difference. It is crucial that we do not do that.”
“It will not work if it is left as something that has to be applied from the top down from the Department of Education.”
“The Member has made a valid point. I have talked about some of the cross-departmental work that will be needed in communities. A lot of that work, particularly in early years, falls to the Department of Health. There are also critical roles for Economy and Health in vocational education. It is also about working with the community. That is why the proposals in key area four of the report look at whole-community solutions. It will not be enough to simply try to find what will work in schools. Even in areas of weak community infrastructure, there has been a hunger to see something better for the next generation. Where that has worked out in practice is where there has been community buy-in and buy-in from families and, indeed, all those on the ground.”
“There are 47 action points arising from the report, and I am happy to endorse all 47 and work towards their implementation. The one thing that we can say with absolute certainty is that there will be a range of opinions on academic selection. That predates not simply any of us but the living existence of virtually everyone in the Chamber, and it is likely to do so for some time. The removal of academic selection would entrench divisions, increase the difficulties of people from a socially deprived background to have the same choices and opportunities and, as such, be a retrograde step. However, I appreciate that there are plenty in the Chamber and beyond who take a contrary view.”
“I do not agree with the position on academic selection: it would be a surprise if I did.”
“Do not forget that we are talking about reaching a point by the end of year 5 or year 6 where there will be £50 million of additional funding. At least half of that will be on the basis of the increased hours of preschool education. It is about a cocktail of measures and a range of other investments. <BR /> <BR />The Member is right: it is not simply about what happens between now and the end of the mandate. The Department will work to implement anything that can be swiftly implemented and will get the ball rolling on a range of things, but what will be critical is the level of commitment by the next Executive, where it sits in the Programme for Government and the level of priority it is given in funding.”
“Well, yes. The Member's graciousness, as always, is greatly reciprocated. <BR /> <BR />The fact that the Member and I are taking the same position may well have people, particularly those of strong religious views, flicking through Revelations to see if it is a portent of the end of the world. Just occasionally, there is overlap between the Member's position and mine, but I suspect that neither of us should put that on our election literature as it would not do either of us any favours.”