Peter Weir
Strangford · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Funding was secured for that scheme, and we have been able to take further steps on it. As highlighted by my colleague Diane Dodds, we have seen my successor, the current Minister, be able to implement it at the beginning of September 2021 and funding be made available for it.”
“One of the great fears — I saw it particularly, as Education Minister, from the point of view of children and the domestic setting between partners — was what was going to happen in families when the doors closed and the locks went on. What was happening behind closed doors?”
“There is another significant element of the Bill. I have spoken about it in the Chamber on a couple of occasions. There is always a slight danger that we, as legislators, see legislation as being the end of a process and think that we can pack it away, put it on the shelf and forget about the problem because it has been solved.”
“I welcome the passage of the Bill's Final Stage and commend all the campaigners who have pressed so hard for it and the Bill sponsor. For Pat Catney, hearing some of the tributes must be like hearing eulogies at your funeral, without having to go through the indignity of dying, which is always a double advantage.”
“As highlighted by a number of Members, the impact of period poverty, though not confined to it, has been particularly acute in young women's education. We know that the impact can lead to the missing of education and constraints within education, and that it does so in a disproportionate way.”
“I support the Bill's Final Stage, and I commend the Bill's sponsor for introducing it. I thank the Minister and the Department for the positive attitude that they have taken towards it.”
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“The grading issue is a separate one and I know that there are questions on that later. My aim is to try to maintain, or restore, an open market in qualifications and I have been working with officials and the key bodies to see what actions can be taken to solve that problem. It is important that the choices are there for schools and that we have an outcomes-based focus. We must ensure that, whenever pupils receive qualifications, comparability and portability are clear. It goes beyond simply qualifications; it is how pupils are able to use them in the future. That is an ongoing issue to which I hope to provide some level of certainty to the House soon.”
“I am not going to get into he-said-she-said territory. There are many successes in our education system that we need to acknowledge, but it is also the case that we have to be ambitious for our children and see where improvements can be made. I hope that the whole House can unite around that as a positive agenda rather than trying to analyse where we believe we are failing. It is about making those important improvements.”
“There is always room for improvement. I should highlight the fact that the latest GCSE figures came out the morning after I became Minister. I am not passing that praise on to the former Minister but claiming it for myself.”
“I will particularly be looking at where there are still weaker educational outcomes to see what interventions can be tailored for those people. <BR /> <BR />The previous Minister made a very valid point that, although we will focus on what happens in schools, there is a wide range of interventions available, and we had a debate last week on early intervention. A lot of that is critical to long-term success. Particularly in education, we need to ensure that we look at things from a long-term perspective. If you are making interventions with children who are two or three, for instance, the impact of that on exam results may well come 10 or 15 years down the line, but we should not shy away from making those interventions simply because we are not seeing the fruits of them very swiftly.”
“Thank you. I have said that, across the board, there has been an improvement in educational attainment. That has been mirrored in a range of groups that has traditionally underachieved. If we take free school meals entitlement as a yardstick, over the past eight years, we have seen a virtual doubling of achievement in the number of Protestant boys who are entitled to free school meals. That still, however, leaves a considerable gap to the average levels of achievement. <BR /> <BR />It is noticeable, for instance, that, in both the Protestant and Catholic communities, the level of increased success among girls has appeared more rapidly than it has among boys, so there is a gender issue to be looked at as well.”
“If he wanted to have a word with the honourable Member for South Belfast about financing the Department of Education, I would be grateful for whatever help from whatever source it was delivered.”
“I thank the Member for his congratulations. Although we have seen clear success through improvements in exam results, we should always be ambitious and look to see where we can make further improvements. It is also the case that education is a key driver for the economy and society as a whole. What is most vital about education is the difference that it can make to an individual's life. For many young people, education can be the game changer in their life, and that is where we always have to think of the individual. <BR /> <BR />I certainly hope that the Executive will give priority to education. We are obviously in very difficult and tough financial circumstances, so that will not be easy. If there is any help that the Member opposite can give, it will be welcomed.”
“Where interventions need to happen and where the speed of improvement has not been fast enough, I am keen to see what improvements can be made.”
“In recent years, there has been a steady increase in the number of school leavers achieving five GCSEs or more and an improvement in the results. That has not simply happened across the board. In particular, there has been a greater speed of improvement among those on free school meals and from socially deprived backgrounds than in other sectors. While there is much work still to be done, that is to be cherished and built upon. That has occurred because of a wide range of factors, particularly the support being provided to schools. I am keen to encourage and, indeed, support particularly the school budget through a range of interventions, and I am keen that, where we see improvements in the school system, those are protected, albeit in difficult financial circumstances.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. With your permission, I will answer questions 1 and 3 together. It is probably a slightly surreal experience that the first question that I receive is from the former Education Minister. I almost feel that I am in one of those body-swap comedies from Hollywood. While he has the opportunity, he can let me know where the money has been hidden in the Department. I would gratefully receive that information. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the improvement in GCSE outcomes detailed in the recent publication on our performance. In education, we often deal with many of the problems facing the subject matter, but we sometimes do not celebrate success and achievements. The credit for that goes to our young people, teachers and school leavers.”
“I appreciate that. The position regarding any legislation is that I will want to consider the Childcare Act in England, for instance, which took two years to prepare. The point is that we want to make sure that whatever is there is fit for purpose. If it is to be underpinned by legislation, it will not happen immediately.”
“I attended part of that conference, as did some of the Members for Fermanagh and South Tyrone, and it was last weekend.”
“From that point of view, there are caveats. I am not opposing the motion or seeking to divide. We need to have a very important debate. I look forward to bringing forward the childcare strategy in the coming months.”
“Both Ms Hanna and Ms Mallon mentioned the English scheme in their initial remarks. It should be remembered that the English scheme is not universal. We provide universal care. In England, people get 15 hours, and they get an additional 15 hours if they meet certain qualifying bits, which includes two parents working. If we were to replicate the English scheme, two parents who between them earned £160,000 or £170,000 would be provided with additional childcare facilities via the state, but a single parent who was doing part-time work would not qualify.”
“I take Mr Agnew's remarks very much on board when he talks about the weeks that are being provided, because the £15 million is on the basis of providing 20 hours a week for 38 weeks. In England, one of the things that they have looked at, in their revision, at least, is whether provision could be spread over a longer time period; but if 20 hours a week were to be provided for 52 weeks a year then, given the fact that there is no provision during 14 weeks of the year, that £15 million would probably be double or maybe more. Again, those choices have to be made. I am simply highlighting them. <BR /> <BR />As mentioned by Ms Hanna, if we were to move to 30 hours provision a week, then the estimate, purely on the basis of it being for 38 weeks, would be £42 million. Again, if we move to 52 weeks, we might double or treble that figure.”
“There may be a good argument that this would be money well spent, but, again, it is important that Members indicate, if they are seeking another £15 million, whether that will simply be from an almost inexhaustible supply of money that will be sought from the Executive or whether the proposers are looking to make cuts in the Education budget to be able to provide it, because that is the direct implication. <BR /> <BR />The implications go beyond this and towards capacity building, which will need to take place immediately if we are to meet that provision in 2016-17. There are also capital issues involved. As indicated, a number of available facilities are run on a split-level basis, both morning and afternoon. So, there would need to be a significant capital involvement.”
“I assume that when we are talking about 20 hours and 30 hours, it is a wrap-around of the two and that we are not simply talking about 20 hours in addition to preschool provision. Mr Attwood may clarify that at a later stage. We are in a position where offers of childcare places for 2016 have already been made and accepted. I am not sure how easy, or indeed preferable, it would be, even if, suddenly, this was doable, for us to simply ask parents to readjust the arrangements they have made for 2016-17. Additionally, we are in the position where, at present, 39% of preschool places for children aged between three and four are at 20 hours or above. So, we have already met the target, if you like, for nearly 40%. The remainder are, largely speaking, for around 12·5 hours provision. The direct indication of in-year cost would be £15 million.”
“The policy will be well thought through, which will ensure that it is properly reflected upon. One thing that I will not do is simply make policy commitments on the hoof. While I do not rule out some of the things that have been put in place with regard to the exact timings, and there is very clearly, for instance, a need to upskill the workforce on that side of it, I will not give commitments ahead of the strategy, because I think it would be inappropriate to do so. <BR /> <BR />I will highlight some of the issues that we will have to face with regard to 20 hours and 30 hours provision, just to highlight them. On the issue of 20 hours a week, there is a distinction between preschool education and childcare.”
“That has provided over 3,000 low-cost childcare places and has been very specifically targeted at children living in low-income households and areas. Good, at least, is being done there. <BR /> <BR />I will turn to a couple of aspects of the motion. It calls for the safeguarding of funding for childcare. I can give the assurance that we will safeguard that, even by the simple fact that it has moved from OFMDFM to DE. Despite the many pressures in my Department, I will not be looking to raid the childcare fund for any other purpose. From that point of view, we will ensure that it is protected. I will also give a very strong assurance that we will be producing a carefully considered, policy-driven childcare strategy that is responsive to the consultation. We hope to bring that to the Executive very soon.”
“To be honest, I have a number of other items that I want to try to get through, and I want to be fair to everybody. The issue of balance of supply is worked through with the preschool education advisory groups that come through the EA. We have now reached the point where, broadly speaking, we have coverage across Northern Ireland to ensure that there are enough places. The issue is that, at times, there is a disjoint between locations and the level of demand. That will require a longer-term solution, but we are looking to see where there are particular pressures and what might be described as "hotspots" to see what we can do with flexibility to try to deal with that issue. <BR /> <BR />Nichola Mallon talked about the childcare strategy.”
“I do not have the figure for second preferences, but I am sure that we can get it for him. However, where he does realise the point —”
“He mentioned a press release that indicated that we have had a record low number of parents who have not been able, after the two stages, to find a place. It is down to, I think, 16 places, and that number is reducing. He asked very specifically about the number of preschool admissions that were placed in the first preference setting. For 2016-17, 87% of the applications were placed in their first preference setting.”
“I think the key test of that will not necessarily be simply whatever cooperation happens between Ministers or, indeed, at the top level, but in ensuring that practitioners on the ground are delivering. <BR /> <BR />Mention has been made of the Executive childcare fund. Of the original £12 million, there is no underspend and, so far, £8·5 million has been allocated to cover the costs of projects supporting childcare through the Bright Start school-age childcare grant and childcare for children with a disability. <BR /> <BR />Mr Swann asked a specific question about the admissions process. We should highlight that it is important to realise that parents are not asked for a choice; they are asked for a preference.”
“Those, indeed, have already been granted, but they are unhypothecated in their nature. I will come back to the particular scheme in England at a later stage. Mention has been made by a number of speakers, Claire Hanna first of all, of inspection. Inspection is handled in part by the ETI, which will inspect the quality of education provision, but largely the onus also lies with the Department of Health, which will lead on minimum standards, and the Regulation and Quality Improvement Authority (RQIA), which will inspect childcare in non-statutory preschools. <BR /> <BR />As indicated when I was Chair of the Education Committee, and also, I understand, from Mr Agnew's Bill, we will try to make sure that we have a much more joined-up approach, particularly to health and education.”
“It may not have been appropriate for my colleague Lord Morrow, when he mentioned Ms Hanna, to call her Carmel. As mistakes go, in a situation where we are dealing with childcare, to mistake a daughter for her mother is one of the better ones that could be made in the House. Ms Hanna talked about an early years Bill. At a previous stage, an early years Bill had been considered by the Department. As I understand it — this is where I think things would need to change — that was not to deal in any way with childcare entitlement; it was to deal with other aspects of it. As we move forward and particularly as we progress the childcare strategy, I will give consideration to what underpinning needs to happen with legislation. <BR /> <BR />Mention has been made of the Barnett consequentials.”
“All childcare settings that are assisted under the school-age childcare grant scheme must promote financial assistance with the cost of childcare. To that end, the strategy is working closely with Employers for Childcare. There is also a key challenge in some of the childcare schemes that are promoted through HMRC, and we will be working with them to try to promote that more. <BR /> <BR />It is my intention to bring a full, final strategy to the Executive in the forthcoming months, having taken full account of the current context of many consultation responses, the new opportunities that now exist to align childcare and early years initiatives and the Programme for Government. <BR /> <BR />I will turn to a few aspects of the motion in a moment. I want to deal with a few of the points that have arisen in the debate.”
“We are aware that some families report that their childcare costs more than their mortgage payments or that the cost of childcare cancels out an entire second salary. That is something we have been trying to address through the first phase of our childcare strategy. As many of you know, making childcare services more affordable is one of its objectives. <BR /> <BR />The first phase of that strategy was launched some three years ago. Since then, it has supported more than 3,000 low-cost childcare places — childcare places priced significantly below the regional average. In parallel, the strategy has successfully promoted childcare vouchers and other types of financial assistance. Chris Lyttle made reference to the promotion of that.”
“Turning to the motion, I recognise that many parents can find the price of childcare a barrier to taking up employment. The research and consultation undertaken to inform the development of the childcare strategy has brought it home to us that there are many parents — indeed, we had widespread consultation — who are simply priced out of the childcare market. We also know that many parents who can technically afford the childcare services they need still struggle greatly to pay for them. In Northern Ireland, childcare can sometimes cost a family as much as a quarter of its income, which is much higher than almost any other OECD country with the exception of, I think, Switzerland.”
“It is therefore highly appropriate that, in the reorganisation of Departments, childcare policy now sits firmly in the Department of Education. Childcare's new departmental home presents an opportunity to align childcare services with wider early years initiatives, thereby improving children's access to a wider range of high-quality early experiences which will lay important foundations for learning.”
“Secondly, it aims to enable all parents, but especially mothers, to join the workforce, or to train or study so that, in time, they can join the workforce. I believe that those two aims fit well together. They fit well together because each, in its own way, has the potential to deliver positive social change: one in the short term and the other in the long term. <BR /> <BR />Let us talk about parents. If, through having better and more affordable childcare, more parents are able to work, clearly that is for society's good. As for children, if, through having quality childcare facilities, we are able to nurture their ability to learn and socialise, we will counter at least some of the ill effects of disadvantage and deprivation: ill effects that create barriers to learning that, in turn, can lead to educational underachievement.”
“Many parents have advised us that, without childcare services that are accessible, reliable and, above all, affordable, they would simply not be in a position to work, would not be able to work as much as they need to, could not work at the level that they are best suited to or could not train or study for work. <BR /> <BR />I am sure that everyone is familiar with the Executive's draft childcare strategy that was launched a number of years ago in the first phase and with the draft version that was issued for consultation last year by OFMDFM. You will know that the strategy has two aims. First, it aims to give all our children the best start in life, preparing them for lifelong well-being and achievement.”
“Nevertheless, early years experiences, particularly in preschool years, are critical to the development of skills such as language and communication, issues that a number of contributors raised. It is the time in a child's life when stimulation is vital. High-quality childcare can provide that. It can provide our youngest citizens with exactly the right type of cognitive and social development that they need in order to thrive. It can set a child on the right path for a lifetime of achievement and personal well-being. <BR /> <BR />With childcare, the focus is always going to be on children, but childcare is also a key issue for parents. I know that high-quality childcare provision can support parents, not just in their employment goals but critically as their child's first and ongoing educator.”
“To widen the issue a little bit, and to use the words of Catherine Seeley, it is also about the importance of early intervention with children to ensure that we have the best education results. <BR /> <BR />For many children, high-quality childcare provides a stimulating developmental experience: one that builds confidence, social skills, eagerness to learn and willingness to engage positively with others. That has been a consistent finding of evaluative research focusing on childcare and other early years interventions. It is something that there is a large consensus around. <BR /> <BR />We are all familiar with the existing and emerging research evidence that shows that 90% or more of brain development happens before the age of five. There may be some who observe the Chamber at times who feel that it stops at the age of five.”
“I welcome today's debate, particularly the tone of it. In following the Member who represents the largest all-male party in the Assembly, I say that it is very good that he has chosen to widen his field by addressing the motion's gender issues. <BR /> <BR />I also commend the three Members who were making their maiden speech for their contributions. When I visited Omagh for two events last week, I indicated to the Chair of the Education Committee that Omagh is perhaps a little bit too widely drawn for him and that Eskragh has now come on to the horizon. I suspect that it may not be the last time that the Chair of the Committee gives a particular invitation to specific parts of West Tyrone. <BR /> <BR />I agree with the thrust of the motion, which is really about the importance of childcare.”
“I confirm that I am willing to take up the office of Minister of Education and I affirm the terms of the Pledge of Office as set out in schedule 4 to the Northern Ireland Act 1998.”
“However, I think that, when we pass this anti-bullying legislation to try to make a real difference to the lives of young people in particular throughout Northern Ireland, we can all look back collectively on this as being a very good day for the Assembly. We will have completed a good day's work when we pass the Bill, and I commend it to the House.”
“From that point of view, there is no silver bullet that will simply solve the problem, but we are taking steps that will very much make a difference. Legislation cannot cure all these problems. <BR /> <BR />As the Minister indicated, the next steps will be the guidance that is issued by the Department, and we look forward to that. Crucially, no matter what the House does, there are the critical actions of what happens on the ground in schools on a day-to-day basis. We believe that schools will meet and be up to the challenge. I mentioned that there is not a single solution to this or something that will eradicate it. However, what we can do is do the best that we can. <BR /> <BR />At times in the House, we will have disagreements about many different things.”
“<BR /> <BR />There was a choice to be made at one stage of the Bill — it was suggested by at least one stakeholder — about whether we should talk about eradicating bullying. I think it is important that we do not give false expectations. We are about combating bullying and doing all we possibly can to prevent it, but if there was a single piece of legislation that could simply eradicate it and wipe it off the face of the earth, I suspect there would be unanimity in the Chamber on that. However, if there were a simple legislative device that could do that, I think predecessors would probably have used it years ago. It is about trying to ensure that we have the best possible series of interventions, monitoring and use of information to combat bullying.”
“Members and the Minister may very well recall the passage of these provisions as a key positive achievement. They would be right do so. This is a good Bill. The Assembly, through its various stages, has made it better. On behalf of the Committee, I commend it to the House and indicate the Committee's assent that the Final Stage do now pass. <BR /> <BR />I will now speak very briefly as a Member, although I do not dissent from anything the Committee has said. We have all seen the sometimes tragic and devastating impact of bullying on individuals. Indeed, in some tragic cases, we have seen some young people lose or take their life as a result of bullying. Any steps we take on this are a very positive way forward.”
“It sets out reasonable and clear expectations for boards of governors. It will empower them to adopt good practice in tackling new and changing bullying challenges, including, as the Minister mentioned, cyberbullying on the Internet and social media. It will help the Department to devise evidence-based policy. Above all, I think, the Bill respects the good work undertaken in many schools to address bullying, and it will promote a culture of no tolerance for unacceptable behaviour in all schools. <BR /> <BR />During the various stages of the legislation, I referred to the victims of bullying and how they should take heart that the Committee and the Minister were listening and that we would do something to make a change. I think the Bill will mark a watershed in the consistent treatment of bullying victims within schools.”
“Notwithstanding the remarks this morning, busy though these final few days and weeks have been for Committees and in plenary, I think this is a very positive and noteworthy achievement for the House. The Bill is a particularly welcome example of good law made better by the good offices of the Assembly. I place on record the Committee's thanks for the work that has gone on with the Minister and the Department and for their cooperation. We have worked collectively to try to make the best possible legislation. As with all these things, I think it was very useful that, on all sides, there was that little bit of flexibility that has enabled us to bring the Bill to this key stage. <BR /> <BR />The Committee felt that the Bill provides an important and workable definition of bullying in schools.”
“I think that all of those are very positive developments.”
“I note the last remarks of the Minister; for once, he was accusing himself of collusion rather than concluding. <BR /> <BR />I will initially speak on behalf of the Committee as part of the Final Stage of the Addressing Bullying in Schools Bill. If we are looking at the issue of education Bills, there is a great temptation to compare them to buses: you wait for a very long time for any to come along and then three come along virtually at once. However, I am glad to say that we have at least been able to complete all three of those Bills, which, I think, will be very useful to the wider educational landscape. Indeed, today marks the Final Stage of the anti-bullying Bill. It comes hot on the heels of the Special Educational Needs and Disability (SEND) Bill and the Shared Education Bill.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. I seek his views on this point. He mentioned the change in the dates for the increase in pension age to 66, from April 2020 to October 2020. Does he believe that that was a cosmetic change by the Government?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I am a bit concerned that the Member is misquoting me. I said that if it was based on section 41, then it would have prevented that happening. I have actually said the opposite as regards these; it may or may not be the case. That is the problem. We are moving to a position that gives less protection than would have been there under section 41.”
“<BR /> <BR />Like others, I am disappointed that we have come to this situation, and I hope that when we resume the issue we will manage to crack it and get it right. I think that it is more important to get it right than push something through today that is fundamentally flawed and that, in the words of the party opposite, will create a postcode lottery as regards equality. That is the fundamental flaw, and that is why we have been forced to take the position that we have taken.”
“Unfortunately, apart from anything else, it may be shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, in the same way as the Member's party initially allowed it to go through and then had a change of heart but found that it was too late. The problem is that, on McCreesh Park, if the test is against the judgement of section 41, which is that it disproportionately disadvantages a community, then that would block McCreesh Park. I do not know precisely what the council equality scheme of Newry and Down council is, and, in fact, that may allow McCreesh Park, or it may not. That is the problem. It creates a lot more of a subjective test than the objective test of the legislation. That is the flaw.”
“<BR /> <BR />However it is circumscribed by way of equality of opportunity, Mrs Kelly and Mr Maginness make a point that we do not want a postcode lottery on equality to tie in, ultimately, with a range of council equality schemes. Concern has been raised on a number of occasions, for example on issues such as McCreesh Park, where equality seems to mean different things in different parts of the country. To tie in specifically what counts as a breach of equality of opportunity with 11 different equality schemes seems, to me, to go in the wrong direction. This moves further away from equality than what is in the 2014 Act. At least, in that Act, we have a guide to standing orders. I think that it is important —”
“Here I would take exception to some of Mr Maginness's remarks that this is, if you like, as close as you will get to section 41. My concern is that this moves too far away from section 41. I appreciate that the Minister has created a level of tweaking that has moved it at least a little in the right direction, but it does not go far enough. I am a little bit at a loss to understand why the language of section 41 cannot be imputed into the regulations, if indeed the issue is, in some way, that this would be ultra vires. I find that very difficult to accept because that is the exact wording that was used in the legislation. Either we are in the position that the 2014 legislation was completely flawed and should have been thrown out at that stage or alternatively it is wrong now.”
“I think that the previous Member who spoke mentioned how this was brought in November. It was mentioned two years ago. It actually goes back quite a number of years. For my sins, in a previous existence, I served on the policy development panel A, which dealt with many of these issues. At that stage, it was flagged up that we needed some form of objective measurement and indeed somebody to objectively take the decision. At that stage, it was not going to be simply referral to an individual, but perhaps looking at some form of panel. This is actually something that has been discussed for quite a number of years, yet it is disappointing that we have this missed opportunity. That however might be the more minor complaint. <BR /> <BR />The issue does arise around the test of whether something is a legitimate call-in or non-legitimate call-in.”