Peter Weir
Strangford · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Funding was secured for that scheme, and we have been able to take further steps on it. As highlighted by my colleague Diane Dodds, we have seen my successor, the current Minister, be able to implement it at the beginning of September 2021 and funding be made available for it.”
“One of the great fears — I saw it particularly, as Education Minister, from the point of view of children and the domestic setting between partners — was what was going to happen in families when the doors closed and the locks went on. What was happening behind closed doors?”
“There is another significant element of the Bill. I have spoken about it in the Chamber on a couple of occasions. There is always a slight danger that we, as legislators, see legislation as being the end of a process and think that we can pack it away, put it on the shelf and forget about the problem because it has been solved.”
“I welcome the passage of the Bill's Final Stage and commend all the campaigners who have pressed so hard for it and the Bill sponsor. For Pat Catney, hearing some of the tributes must be like hearing eulogies at your funeral, without having to go through the indignity of dying, which is always a double advantage.”
“As highlighted by a number of Members, the impact of period poverty, though not confined to it, has been particularly acute in young women's education. We know that the impact can lead to the missing of education and constraints within education, and that it does so in a disproportionate way.”
“I support the Bill's Final Stage, and I commend the Bill's sponsor for introducing it. I thank the Minister and the Department for the positive attitude that they have taken towards it.”
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“Yes, of course I have read the report. Indeed, I had to take some imaginative action to make sure that it was published on time in the previous mandate. I think that its final version was produced during the period of purdah, so I had to make sure that it was able to be released. In order to cover the situation in which we are not supposed to release anything during purdah, I remember that the report had to be released at a quarter to 10 on election day in 2017. <BR /> <BR />As I said, yes, I have read the report. A number of its recommendations have been put in place.”
“I do not have those figures directly to hand, but I will be happy to provide them to the Member.”
“It is probably the biggest capital project that Northern Ireland has ever undertaken, and there is a strong determination, not just from the Department of Education and me as Minister of Education but from the whole Executive, to carry on to make sure that the campus is brought to fruition.”
“I should first say that this is the Member's first Education Question Time. I will see her tomorrow at the Education Committee, and I welcome her to her place. <BR /> <BR />Work is continuing on that. Recently, I have taken a position to the Executive, and the Executive all agreed that we need to move ahead with Strule. There is still some work to be finalised between the Department of Finance and Treasury. Without breaking any confidentiality, I was able to raise the matter directly with the Finance Minister yesterday, and the Department of Finance is pushing ahead. We need a final position from Treasury to confirm all of that, however.”
“Indeed, I want to see the best possible availability of space and construction for all our pupils, not just in the great constituency of Strangford but beyond the constituency and throughout Northern Ireland.”
“I certainly congratulate the school on its hard work and success, not just under its current principal but under its previous principal. It has been success story and a particular beacon of light. <BR /> <BR />For people who are checking the Register of Members' Interests, I should perhaps indicate that I visited the school in my capacity as an MLA for the area, as I think the Member did as well, rather than in my capacity as Minister of Education. I was able to view some of the school's challenges and some of the improvements that need to be made to its physical infrastructure. Speaking as an MLA, I am very much in favour of those improvements.”
“I understand that, and I think that the Department was well aware of that. For instance, some money has been released, after discussions with DOF, to the EA for issues such as the procurement of additional bus allocation and a range of other procurements. I appreciate that there was disruption, particularly around the spring, to capital spend. We have caught up on some of that. On the broader budget, as we move towards 2021, the situation with capital resources will still be very tight across the board, but I had very useful conversations with the Minister of Finance yesterday on the broader budgetary issues covering both resource and capital demand.”
“I appreciate that. One of the restrictions has been the school's listed status, which is not unique to Nettlefield. For some buildings, listed status is not, with the best will in the world, preserving great Georgian architecture but is, at times, holding back measures that need to be taken to improve health and safety. The EA is cognisant of the issues at Nettlefield. The problem is that, when the last call was made for minor works, there were around 6,000 applications, about 600 of which have been funded so far. There is a lot of demand out there, but I can give the assurance that the EA will take it seriously and that the Member being a past pupil of Nettlefield will in no way disadvantage the school.”
“All those matters are being considered for progression by the Education Authority, which will deal with the operational side of it.”
“I thank the Member for his question. As Nettlefield Primary School is a controlled school, the Education Authority is responsible for minor capital works there. It has advised that, subject to the availability of funding and prioritisation of other works, consideration is being given to progressing minor works at the school. I know that the Member takes a close interest in Nettlefield, and I believe that it was one of the schools that the permanent secretary and I visited pre-COVID, which seems a long time ago. Specifically, in the next financial year, the EA is looking to progress minor works relating to the toilets and the roofing, and I know that there is a danger with the windows. The concrete steps outside the school office could also prove to be a hazard.”
“Before the Chair gets a little bit paranoid, I will say that I am not accusing him. For once, he is an innocent man. The figures suggest very long-term waits. For example, a number of months ago, a number of children were waiting, say, more than a year and a half for a statement. That is no longer the case. There have been reductions in all those elements. It is about making that progress. <BR /> <BR />The Member is right about alignment, and the purpose of the SEN regulations is to try to get a much more joined-up approach. That is why they are out for consultation. It is important that we can move ahead with those as soon as possible and do as much as we can with the resources that are there.”
“I agree with the Member up to a point. As with all issues, resources are required to do certain things. Resources, in and of themselves, are not the complete picture. I do not have the figures to hand, but timescales for the statementing process have improved considerably. They started from a very poor base a year or two ago and have reduced considerably. <BR /> <BR />I see somebody shaking their head from a sedentary position, who clearly does not have the figures in front of them either. I revealed the figures at my previous Question Time.”
“The code of practice will be a driver to improve what we can do for our young people with special educational needs.”
“To be fair, while the Committee Chair and I will often clash, he made reasonable suggestions to develop better stakeholder engagement and a reference group for vulnerable children. I am trying to take the suggestions forward with officials. As the Member suggested, that cannot happen purely in the Department of Education, and it requires cooperation. <BR /> <BR />Much of the Member's question would be better answered by the Health Minister. However, good work has been done and the situation is beginning to improve. There is no doubt that turning aspirations into real cooperation can be challenging at times and requires a continual effort. It can be brought forward as the consultation on the SEN regulations comes to an end, and the code of practice will be allied to the regulations.”
“There is a good argument for a lot more flexibility with the budgets. With the Engage programme, the flexibility on how that money is used is devolved to individual schools. Needs will be met directly in special schools, but the budget will come through the EA rather than the Engage programme.”
“No, it is not. Perhaps I am being a bit pedantic, but the Member may be referring to the Engage programme rather than restart. The restart fund is the wider package of measures that is being taken into account. As I indicated, £6·9 million of restart funding is directly for special educational needs. The Engage programme is £11·2 million of funding and is targeted at mainstream schools. As a more one-to-one intervention is required in special schools, I have instructed the EA to work directly with special schools to make provision of a similar nature to the Engage programme. Given the budgeting, the Engage programme has been delegated to schools. As the Member will also be aware, budgets for special educational needs are not devolved to the schools but are dealt with at EA level, which is why I have instructed the EA.”
“The EA recently established a programme of improvements through its SEN strategic development programme, which provides a single coordinating governance structure for the SEN transformation agenda across Northern Ireland. The programme not only draws together ongoing multi-agency SEN development work but defines a single strategic plan to address the wide-ranging recommendations for changes that have resulted from various review reports over the past few years, including the 2020 Northern Ireland Audit Office SEN report, the SEN learner journey recommendations and the recent report by the Northern Ireland Children's Commissioner.”
“I am happy to do so. The Member mentioned teachers and parents. As we move towards Christmas, I want to place on record my thanks and appreciation — as I have done before, particularly for those in special educational needs but across the board — for parents, principals, teachers and all educational staff who have ensured that education continues. <BR /> <BR />Specifically on the question that the Member asked, the SEN governance group was established in September to maintain strategic oversight of the implementation of improvements being made in the EA and the Department. Considerable criticism has been levelled in the various reports that have been produced, and it is important that those are answered strategically.”
“I thank the Member for his question. To help support schools and the education sector in addressing many of the new pressures arising as a result of COVID-19, I announced significant additional funding, with the support of the Executive. To date, extra allocations of £6·9 million have been made to the Education Authority (EA), earmarked for special educational needs pressures arising from COVID-19 and Education Restart. I have asked the EA to continue to monitor funding requirements as the pandemic progresses, in order to inform potential departmental bids for additional resources.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I have made it very clear that not only is academic selection in legislation but it is up to boards of governors. It is not a question of me or my Department coming up with criteria. The grammar schools that use academic selection are perfectly entitled to do so. I am not going to interfere in that right. As I said, a range of mitigations is being put in place this year, because anybody doing any form of public examination will have to follow a range of guidelines for health and safety. That will apply in all circumstances. However, I will not take away the right to academic selection. I will not be the Minister who seeks, by the front door or the back, to destroy our grammar-school system.”
“We will give advice, particularly on what is required on health and safety issues. We also advise that schools need to be more cognisant this year, on a wide range of criteria, to cover those eventualities. We will give guidance, particularly on the special circumstances that each individual school has to apply; it cannot be something that is done on a blanket basis. Those schools need to examine their criteria closely to make sure that they are fit for purpose for this year, but I am not going to impose a solution on them that takes away their right to academic selection.”
“I appreciate that your party has been very consistent and clear-cut on the issue. I support academic selection and the right to academic selection. It is enshrined in law. Unless schools choose something that takes them outside the law, admissions criteria are up to individual boards of governors. We can give schools advice that says, "You need to have a range of criteria to look at eventualities for individuals". However, it is ultimately a choice for schools. <BR /> <BR />Many fine schools across the system have never used academic selection, or only use it partially, and also get absolutely brilliant results. I welcome those schools, and I do not intend to force academic selection on anyone. However, neither do I intend to take the right to academic selection away from schools. I am not planning for an alternative.”
“That does not seem to be a particularly satisfactory way of selecting children for an oversubscribed school.”
“It is a range of those things. It is a form of selection by family and genetics. Sometimes, it will be a question of getting into the school if you have a brother, but not if you have a sister, or vice versa. It is an accident of birth — an accident of DNA. <BR /> <BR />Whatever the criticisms of academic selection, it is, at least, based on the merits of the applicant. As such, while a wider debate on academic selection has gone on for a long time, with a range of views, to jump in and put in place those sorts of measures will only exacerbate difference and make it utterly impossible for some students to get into a school that is not based on academic selection. If a child was the greatest genius in the land, they would simply be denied, because of who they were related to.”
“I admire the Member for the inventive ways in which he attacks academic selection. His attacks seem to take slightly different twists and turns, and the route, now, is under the cover of COVID-19. <BR /> <BR />With regard to absences, we have direct information on pupils who are absent and still able to engage, and those who are self-isolating. Those figures reached their highest point towards the end of October when there was a combined rate of about 8%. It is a lot lower than that for most of the other weeks, and it tends to be slightly lower in primary schools than in post-primary schools. <BR /> <BR />We have seen the alternatives suggested by a few schools looking to move away from academic selection this year. The alternatives that they seem to have produced relate to whether your mum, dad or older brother went to the school.”
“It will be for individual schools to determine how they deal with such applications, and once criteria are completed, they will be published by the Education Authority at the beginning of the new year.”
“I have told boards of governors that, in drafting their criteria, they should consider any eventuality whereby test results are available, but not necessarily for every student. <BR /> <BR />As such, I have indicated to them that, as part of the single set of admissions criteria, they should look at how they will deal with students who will have had to self-isolate, for instance, and, perhaps, have not been able to do all the tests. They will also be working alongside the test providers. It is also the case, this year, that schools will apply special circumstances. I have asked them to review their special circumstances, because I suspect that there will be a greater call on those this year than in previous years.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I was not aware that question 2 had been withdrawn. <BR /> <BR />As the Member will be aware, setting admissions criteria is, by law, a matter for boards of governors of individual schools. To assist in the process, guidance was issued to all post-primary schools on the operation of the transfer procedure. However, given the unique situation that we find ourselves in, I have also written to the boards of governors of schools that will be using the entrance test results in their admissions criteria. I am sure that the Member will be aware that schools are under an obligation to publish the criteria and to produce them by 11 December.”
“From that point of view, the adaptations that will be put forward will cover the situation and will recognise that not every student has faced the same issues. We will also need to look, in a wider UK context, at dealing with special considerations for individuals. Perhaps unsurprisingly, rumours will always abound in Northern Ireland. There are no plans to delay the return to school in January. I want our young people to have as full an opportunity as possible to be educated directly. Let us make sure that rumours do not start that, again, do not have any substance.”
“If we were the only jurisdiction that, in all forms, abandoned examinations, where would that leave some of our students when making comparisons for university places? Rather than snatching at a populist headline, we have to think this through so that we can see where it leaves our students. <BR /> <BR />The one thing that I am going to do is be absolutely straight with students and others. Members will say, "Wales has abandoned exams". It has not, really. It is having assessments that are externally set and externally marked. Presumably, if there is going to be a level playing field for students in Wales, those assessments will have to be carried out under examination conditions. In many ways, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck.”
“No, I will not. Frankly, if we are talking about fairness for people, we first have to take into account that the exams that I control are administered by CCEA. If we were to cancel all CCEA examinations, there would still be roughly 20% of students doing English board examinations. It would place students in Northern Ireland in a different position not just from students in England, Scotland and Wales but — this may be of greater interest to the Member — the Republic of Ireland, all of whom are going ahead with examinations. Every jurisdiction, by one means or another, is going ahead with examinations. <BR /> <BR />We need to ensure that we have a level playing field for grading throughout the United Kingdom and that, as much as possible, there is a level playing field for students in Northern Ireland.”
“In the current circumstances, whatever direction I or any jurisdiction move in, the playing field will not be completely level for anyone. That is part of the difficulty, because, sometimes, making one decision will be fair for some people and unfair for others, and it is about trying to balance that. I hope to be able to reach a conclusion on that fairly soon.”
“Concerns have been raised, particularly by non-selective schools, that optionality, by that definition, would create problems, especially for some children with special educational needs and candidates who are not as strong academically, and that it could discriminate against them. However, there is a range of other options, if I may put it that way, for adaptations that I hope to bring forward very soon. <BR /> <BR />We have already gone further than some other jurisdictions, particularly England, with adaptations for GCSEs. I hope to be in position to come to a conclusion and to make further announcements on those adaptations before Christmas in order to give people a level of certainty. We will have to take account of the current wider situation because it is about trying to create as level a playing field as possible.”
“As with a lot of things in education, it depends on what you define as a particular term. Optionality has, generally speaking, been considered from a purely educational point of view, which is about having more exam questions from which to choose. Direct concerns have been raised. That is one of the options that continues to be looked at.”
“However, the situation has been kept under review, and my officials have been working closely with CCEA to develop a range of further mitigations and contingencies to respond to the fluid public health situation. That is particularly the case for AS and A levels. That work is at an advanced stage. It has also involved discussions with key stakeholders in terms of partnership at school principal level. I hope to be in a position to provide more information on that issue very soon.”
“I thank the Member for her question. It is my priority that examinations to award Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment (CCEA) qualifications, which is the one area that I have direct control over, should go ahead as planned in 2021. However, it is clear that there is a need — I have acknowledged this from the start — for adaptations, given where we are this year. <BR /> <BR />The first suite of adaptations, which I agreed on 9 October and subsequently on 6 November for GCSE qualifications, provide a significant reduction in the burden of assessment for young people while still allowing as much opportunity as possible to cover the content of the specifications. I also agreed a number of health-related adaptations for AS and A levels.”
“I remember one of my predecessors — I think that it was Caitríona Ruane — predicting that the tests, first made by the Association of Quality Education (AQE) and the Post Primary Transfer Consortium (PPTC) 12 or 13 years ago, would collapse under the weight of legal challenges. We are a number of years on, and the tests are still here.”
“Apart from the fact that schools have a legal right to use academic selection, the tests are run separately. I understand that, given the current situation, everybody has concerns. A range of health and safety measures will be put in place. We are talking about gathering together about 10,000 young people across Northern Ireland, when, on a daily basis, around 300,000 go to school. It will not surprise the Member to know that I suspect that she and I have, shall we say, a divergent view on the issue of transfer. People can always make legal challenges on a range of things.”
“However, collectively, in the Department of Education and beyond, there is a determination to work through, from a Programme for Government point of view, a range of those priorities, some of which have already started to be brought to fruition, not just by my Department but by others.”
“It is right. Executive colleagues and I have brought forward strategic plans for the longer term. That has been across the board. There is no doubt that COVID-19 has taken up what we might call a "broad bandwidth" in different Departments. At times, that has led to immediate concerns having to be covered. In particular, with regard to the attention that can be given at different levels, it has meant that officials who deal with area planning, for example, have had to be diverted to COVID-19-related activities temporarily. <BR /> <BR />For all of us, there are priorities that we need to ensure are maintained. They might have been slightly delayed because of COVID-19.”
“The children and young people's strategy has been created and is now being finalised. It has obviously been a long while coming, and some adjustments have been made down the years. It is now, I think, being circulated to Executive colleagues. To be fair, any comments that I have received from Executive colleagues have been, across the board, largely supportive. It should not be seen as in any way controversial, and therefore I hope that it can be signed off by the whole Executive before Christmas. It will produce a longer-term vision for children and young people.”
“The £6·5 million will be mainstreamed in budgets, so what is there in 2020-21 will be there in 2021-22 and beyond. We may reach a situation where that amount of money expands. Nevertheless, it will be there. <BR /> <BR />The difference between the two is that the £5 million is from the COVID-19 funding. Therefore, it is effectively a one-off payment. To ensure that it is spent in year, schools will have flexibility and much wider discretion in spending that money than they will with regard to the £6·5 million, which will probably be directed into particular projects and processes.”
“The idea is that proposals will be brought to the Executive soon. We bid for an annual sum in the budget. To be fair, some money has also been provided by Health because of the linkages with that Department. The anticipation for emotional health and well-being is that £6·5 million will be mainstreamed into budgets that are provided mainly to schools. That will be for a series of projects. Some will be for work on the youth side and some for building resilience through the curriculum. Therefore, the £6·5 million will be for a range of projects, some of which will effectively be piloted because we want to see what works and what does not work. It will probably be more centrally driven, although schools will be able to take advantage of that.”
“That might involve getting in some additional talks or counselling sessions. It could be to support the well-being of staff. While, naturally, we concentrate on the children, we need to ensure that staff well-being is also covered. It may be through additional extracurricular activities that they want to take place or even improving the school environment, perhaps, by buying equipment that would help. There is trust in schools to spend that money wisely and to determine, within their own budgets and situations, whether they might want to put additional money towards nurture, for example. They are the people on the ground. We give schools that same level of trust with the Engage programme.”
“To give a bit of a breakdown, the £5 million is effectively COVID recovery money. A total of £12 million was given for what I will call the broader academic side, most of which went into the Engage programme. About a quarter of a million pounds of that £5 million will go to youth services. A number of youth organisations have already been notified of an element of grant. The remaining £4·75 million will be divided among schools pro rata. <BR /> <BR />Given that the money will be spent on mental health and well-being, once individual schools have been notified of the money, which should happen very soon, there will be no barrier to them spending it. It is not an enormous sum for schools, but there will be complete flexibility in how they can spend that money, provided that it is used for mental health and well-being purposes.”
“<BR /> <BR />On Friday, among a number of schools that I visited, I had the great pleasure of visiting Jones Memorial Primary School in Enniskillen, which won the Fermanagh Sustrans award for active travel. Active travel should be strongly encouraged. I appreciate that active travel is not applicable to everyone or, indeed, given the weather conditions sometimes in Northern Ireland, something that can be done all the time, but, from the point of view of preventing the spread of COVID and creating a healthy body and mind, the more we can do to encourage the embracing of active travel, where possible, the better.”
“There has been some contact. As part of that, the Executive have provided a small amount of additional money for additional safety on buses and to ease transport levels. That money is not, by its nature, infinite, so it is about trying to use it as well as possible. I have had good conversations with the Infrastructure Minister, and there is a commitment at departmental and operational level to work together to see whether any additional elements can be put in place. <BR /> <BR />One of the other issues, as we respond to events, is that the pattern of drop-off for children has adjusted a little. Some parents will have taken a view that they feel most confident delivering their children to and from school themselves, where they would not have previously, so all those things have to be factored in.”
“With anything that can be done around buses and messaging, although messaging lies outside my direct control when it comes to, for example, issues around drop-off and pick-up, there is a role for all of us to be socially responsible. There will, however, be ongoing discussions to see whether any other action, such as rejigging of buses, can be done to ease the situation.”
“We are up against practical restrictions, as about 80,000 pupils use free transport each day. I have instructed officials to work with Translink, the EA and the Department for Infrastructure. Although some additional money has been able to be levered in for additional transport, there are restrictions, and we need to try to make sure that we use that transport as wisely as possible so that, if there are additional pressures on some routes, buses can be brought in. We would also be happy to embrace some rejigging. <BR /> <BR />The Member also raises an important point about the threat that is out there. A lot of good work has been done directly in schools, particularly with bubbles. Schools do not represent a particular risk to pupils. The danger comes from the virus being brought into schools as a result of wider community transmission.”
“As the Member will be aware, as part of that we have moved to a situation that will hopefully reduce levels of transmission. For post-primary children, there is a requirement to wear masks on public transport and school transport.”