Peter Weir
Strangford · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Funding was secured for that scheme, and we have been able to take further steps on it. As highlighted by my colleague Diane Dodds, we have seen my successor, the current Minister, be able to implement it at the beginning of September 2021 and funding be made available for it.”
“One of the great fears — I saw it particularly, as Education Minister, from the point of view of children and the domestic setting between partners — was what was going to happen in families when the doors closed and the locks went on. What was happening behind closed doors?”
“There is another significant element of the Bill. I have spoken about it in the Chamber on a couple of occasions. There is always a slight danger that we, as legislators, see legislation as being the end of a process and think that we can pack it away, put it on the shelf and forget about the problem because it has been solved.”
“I welcome the passage of the Bill's Final Stage and commend all the campaigners who have pressed so hard for it and the Bill sponsor. For Pat Catney, hearing some of the tributes must be like hearing eulogies at your funeral, without having to go through the indignity of dying, which is always a double advantage.”
“As highlighted by a number of Members, the impact of period poverty, though not confined to it, has been particularly acute in young women's education. We know that the impact can lead to the missing of education and constraints within education, and that it does so in a disproportionate way.”
“I support the Bill's Final Stage, and I commend the Bill's sponsor for introducing it. I thank the Minister and the Department for the positive attitude that they have taken towards it.”
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“I probably gave a couple of examples that had crossover with Economy, but I made it clear in the statement that, where changes can and should be made ahead of any report, particularly within the next year and a half of the Assembly's lifetime, they should be made.”
“First, there is a separate review of EA that is due about now. I think that this will involve all organisations. There is a clear reference to what the strands can contain, and, effectively, therefore, there is an expectation of what they can contain. It is put in a very permissive way so that if, in terms of the wider position as regards governance or anything else, the panel seeks to move beyond the definitions in the terms of reference, there is no bar on it looking at anything, including the Education Authority or, for that matter, DE.”
“It is not simply within government: a lot of good work has happened at times on the ground through third-sector bodies and individuals. As well as those who are formally in education, the role of parents will be critical as we move ahead.”
“That will probably vary to some extent according to the subject matter that the panel is looking at. If it is looking at progression to further and higher education, the key focus will be the learner journey and th economy. If we are looking at support in the system for vulnerable children and children with special educational needs, Health will probably be the key Department because there will be cross-fertilisation. There may be issues that touch on other areas: if school transport is looked at, there could be a role for the Department for Infrastructure. <BR /> <BR />There is nothing that circumscribes whom or what organisations the panel can meet. The point needs to be made that it goes beyond the remit of the Department of Education.”
“I take on board what has been said about the time frame. If difficulties arise because of it, I am sure that it could be amended. By the same token, however, there will be issues that all of us in the Chamber could debate until the cows come home. We cannot have something that is entirely open-ended. There will be a level of reflection, and, ultimately, as a process issue, we may have to alter it. We have to see how it works out. <BR /> <BR />I gave the specific example of the Economy Department, but other issues will come into play that will require cross-departmental support. The Member highlighted clearly the Department of Health as a key consideration. I suspect that, even tangentially, there will be other Departments that this will touch on. I want to see the panel engaging with the widest possible range of stakeholders.”
“As I indicated, there needs to be a balance. We do not want to have something moving into the ether and never reporting, and we need to have a realistic time frame. The original time frame envisaged that a final report would be done within 15 months. There was considerable feedback from a number of those whom we consulted that that would be tight. The balance that we have struck is that there is an expectation of a final report within 18 months, but there is an opportunity for the panel, if it feels that there is further work that needs to be done, to request an extension. The request should come from the panel rather than either me, as Minister, or my successor in title trying to impose an additional time frame.”
“If there are changes that can be made in education, it will not be a question of waiting for a report. If there are issues that we can get consensus on and work through, we need to make that progress in the meantime. None of this should be an obstacle to any level of change that can be brought about.”
“Initially, there were slightly tighter time frames, but one piece of feedback that we got from a range of the sectors was that that would, given the scope that would have to be encompassed by the panel, potentially be challenging to deliver. As I said, there will be an 18-month period to report, with an interim report after 12 months. Also, should the panel members feel that they need a little more time, there will be an opportunity to ask for additional time of up to six months, and that will be a call for the chair. <BR /> <BR />It is important that whatever emerges is got right. While it is critical that this is delivered, it is not a question of rushing something to meet a particular absolute deadline. I should indicate some of the issues that will be covered, as they will be of interest to the Chair and the Committee.”
“Then there will need to be some way of ensuring that people are appointable, be it by interview or whatever. Appointments will then be made, and provision will then be made to support them. <BR /> <BR />The Member will be aware that, when it came to the expert panel, which was arguably a simpler process, we were in a position to make an announcement, I think, in June and to have the work start in September. There will not be the same time frame in this case, but the process will commence in 2021. <BR /> <BR />The Member asked about a time frame: again, to some extent, that will be up to the panel. We have given an indication that there should be a full report within 18 months and an interim report within 12 months.”
“Going back to my remarks on timing, we are in a slightly different position in that there were a few detailed comments from, for instance, the Education Committee that we were able to take on board. On the terms of reference, the Member will be aware that, while the final decision on those lay with the Executive, we were in a position to give draft terms of reference to some sectoral bodies and the Committee for Education and to take on board some suggestions <BR /> <BR />In terms of the timescale, the aim is to move as quickly possible, but it will probably be a few months into 2021 before the panel is fully established. There will need to be a recruitment process with, first of all, expressions of interest by way of public appointment.”
“It is as if we are at the start of a journey and we can all agree on where we want to go but have different opinions on the best route to get to that destination. <BR /> <BR />We must all approach the review with open minds. The review must be based on evidence, learn from best practice locally and elsewhere and be informed by the voice of stakeholders. The panel will operate with objectivity, and, once that review concludes, we, as the final decision-makers, must do so also. I look forward to the review commencing later in 2021 and ask Members to appreciate that it will take some months to run the recruitment process. I am sure that everyone in the House will support the work of the panel once it is in place.”
“We all want a system that develops children’s personalities, talents and mental and physical abilities to their fullest and equips them to thrive in later life. We all want a system that is fair and open to all and provides appropriate support for those who need it most. We all want a system that values its workforce and provides them with the tools that they need to be effective. We all want a system that is sustainable, effective and joined up. Fundamentally, I believe that, despite our differences at times, we all want the same things for our children and young people, our workforce and our schools: it is just that sometimes we disagree about the method for obtaining those outcomes.”
“In particular, I expect close working with the Department for the Economy on matters relating to further and higher education and the preparation of young people for the world of work. Engagement at a political level is also vital. I see little value in taking time and spending money on delivering the review if its recommendations cannot be put into action. It is incumbent on all of us to work together to find solutions to the challenges that we face, build consensus on delivery of those actions and secure the necessary resources and commitment for educational transformation. <BR /> <BR />I firmly believe that everyone in the House wants the same things for our children and young people and our education system. We all want a system that provides children and young people with the absolute best start in life.”
“Our school leaders and teachers will also be able to provide insight on current provision, gaps in services and barriers to improved outcomes. There should also be significant engagement with education sectoral bodies and trade unions, as well as wider representative groups. <BR /> <BR />While engaging with children and young people, practitioners, trade unions etc, it is vital that all viewpoints, all stages, all sectors and all school types, including special education, are involved. There will also be cross-departmental working, with many areas of government having a role in the delivery of education or in improving outcomes for children and young people.”
“It will be for the appointed chairperson to set the work plan and agree the methodology for engaging with stakeholders. However, I expect the review to be delivered in a collaborative manner with significant engagement in order to gather evidence and assess issues. <BR /> <BR />Education has a wide range of stakeholders, and it is essential that they have an opportunity to support and inform the review. I am keen that the voice of children and young people be central to the work of the review and that their views be considered on how education is currently delivered in Northern Ireland and how it might be improved. Parents and carers also have a critical role in shaping the needs of our education system and will be critical to ensuring that the review progresses successfully.”
“I reiterate that nothing in the review will or should act as an obstacle or delay to the necessary reforms that may be made in the interim by my Department by itself or in conjunction with the Department for the Economy, such as the 14-to-19 strategy or the need to prepare our future workforce by embedding a digital spine in our young people’s education. Nothing in the review should be allowed to impede progress or be used by anyone as an excuse to avoid difficult issues by attempting to kick the can down the road. <BR /> <BR />In addition to the three distinct strands, the panel will be asked to outline a clear vision for what education in Northern Ireland should aspire to be in the 21st century, the outcomes it should deliver, the appropriate indicators of success and the key actions required to make that vision a reality.”
“To that extent, today’s announcement is not the finalised position, and, given the critical involvement of the Department for the Economy, I will engage with the Economy Minister in the time ahead to see what additions are needed to the terms of reference. None of that will detract from the existing terms of reference but will add to them before the panel commences its work. Any additions will be brought to the Executive and then confirmed in a statement to the Assembly.”
“The panel will wish to consider the barriers to effective delivery and areas of duplication or inefficiency. That will be a complex work area, with a focus on the core structural issues that may negatively impact on delivery and outcomes. <BR /> <BR />Although the terms of reference and scope of the review cover a wide range of areas, it is clear to me that there is one element that still requires further refinement, and that is to ensure that the review is ambitious enough to encompass a vision of change and puts in place the practical steps for learners' journey beyond school and into further and higher education, fully preparing them for work and life.”
“That will include a range of issues, such as transition and transfer at age 11, the experience of children with special educational needs (SEN) and the delivery of the curriculum, as well as many other important aspects. <BR /> <BR />Strand 2 will focus on support for settings and schools, including the issue of funding and local governance arrangements. That strand will wish to consider how we support our schools and teachers to best teach our children and young people. Again, it will cover many different issues, including the challenging roles of school leaders and teachers, the role of inspection and school improvement, and the role of technology in education to support learning, pedagogy and qualifications. <BR /> <BR />Strand 3 will then consider how the education system is designed, delivered and administered.”
“I am open to providing further time, if required and requested, to ensure that a quality piece of work is produced. The panel will be made up of a chairperson, a vice-chairperson and three panel members. Those roles will be remunerated. The agreed terms of reference set out the scope of the review and the expected deliverables from the independent panel. <BR /> <BR />The review is based around three core strands. Strand 1 will focus on the educational journey of children and young people and the outcomes that they achieve. It will consider all aspects of pupils' experience of education from early years to transition into careers.”
“All good education systems look continually at how they might improve the quality of provision, and all good schools want to improve further. There is now an opportunity to review education policy, services and provision strategically and to set out a clear vision of how education should be delivered in Northern Ireland in the 21st century. <BR /> <BR />The review's terms of reference have been agreed by the Executive and will now be published. The review will commence in 2021, once an independent panel can be appointed. That will be done via an open public appointments process to ensure that the panel is wholly independent, with an appropriate breadth of experience and range of expertise. The panel will work over a period of approximately 18 months, producing an interim report after 12 months.”
“<BR /> <BR />Indeed, a significant amount of work is already happening in the field of education transformation and reform, and it is important that the review build on such work rather than try to stall or duplicate it. Members will be aware of the ongoing work of the expert panel on persistent educational underachievement, which is also an NDNA commitment. Further to that, my Department continues to work closely with the Department for the Economy on a strategy for 14- to 19-year-olds, and work is commencing on the delivery of nine workforce reviews linked to the teachers' pay agreement. <BR /> <BR />The review panel will need to be cognisant of a wide range of work across the Executive that links to improving outcomes for children and young people.”
“We must also recognise that, although the education system faces many significant challenges, we are building from a position of strength. There are many areas of excellence in the current system. We can be proud of our school leaders, teachers and pupils. We have a well-trained and highly committed workforce delivering innovative practice, and our children and young people continue to achieve high levels of attainment. Those strengths need to be built on to ensure that they permeate the entire system, and challenges must be identified and addressed. We are all in agreement that, if we are to continue to deliver world-class education, we need to reform, modernise and transform. We should always strive to improve services and deliver better outcomes.”
“<BR /> <BR />We should not underestimate the task ahead. The review and the delivery of whatever recommendations it makes could radically reshape the design and delivery of education in Northern Ireland. Reform and transformation, however, will occur only with political and stakeholder agreement and wider community engagement, as well as the provision of adequate funding. <BR /> <BR />Education in Northern Ireland operates in both a congested and contested space, and change is inevitably a highly emotive issue. A non-political, non-sectoral and wholly independent review is an essential starting point. It is important that we approach the review with an open mind and without our own predetermined views on what its findings will be.”
“Indeed, there are a couple of other direct references to the review in NDNA. <BR /> <BR />Work to establish the review had to be suspended in March 2020 due to the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic. I am keen to make further progress on establishing the review, and, to that end, I secured the Executive’s agreement in principle to the draft terms of reference, which will now be published. <BR /> <BR />This is very much the start of the beginning. The real work lies ahead, once the independent panel has been recruited and the evidence gathering commences. However, the agreement in principle of the draft terms of reference is an important first step, and it signals the intent to have a wide-ranging review of our education system with a view to improving outcomes for children and young people.”
“I would like to make a statement to the Assembly about the establishment of the independent review of education. Members will be aware of the commitment in 'New Decade, New Approach' (NDNA) to:”
“However, because of where we are in the school year, it would not have given schools that level of flexibility.”
“I appreciate that, with every subject, there will be a range of opinions. However, teachers not having to make a central assessment of individual pupils will relieve some of the pressure on them. It will allow them not only to say what they feel students should get but to rank them. No matter how great the level of confidentiality, there will always be a concern among some teachers, who will look over their shoulder and ask themselves whether there will be any comeback if they do not give someone a certain grade. This approach will relieve that burden. <BR /> <BR />Also, because the choice will be made at a school level, that gives schools an opportunity to be flexible. This will not simply be imposed on schools. Other options involved a high-level reduction being imposed by CCEA on all schools.”
“There are a number of points there. Yes; it may mean that because there has been a shift in where the boundaries are. What it does mean is that those who are sitting exams in 2021 will be put in a very similar position, at least in terms of eventual outcomes, to those who sat exams in 2020. Some people will not have taken up university and FE places in 2020. They may have deferred entry or simply felt that, "I do not want to apply at this stage because I will not be getting the full university experience". It will mean that those who graduate in 2021 and those who graduated in 2020 will be on a level playing field with each other. <BR /> <BR />Ms Sugden mentioned teachers in particular. One of the advantages of this approach for teachers is that the changes in assessment will reduce their burden.”
“At the broader level, we will always make sure that any examinations take place in accordance with public health guidelines. As the Principal Deputy Speaker said, post-primary transfer is not the subject of today's statement. However, from a health point of view, if we are talking about roughly 300,000 pupils being in each day, accommodating 10,000 on a particular day does not seem to be beyond the bounds of possibility. I want to make sure that all our examinations are as fair as possible. We have taken very far-reaching decisions today on reduction in course content and on grades, which will create a unique circumstance. It will mean that pupils in 2021 will be in a very different position from those in 2019. That is where an accommodation has to be reflected. Again, I thank the Member for his good wishes.”
“Members of the DUP are sometimes accused of harping back to the 17th century but there may be more classical civilisations that we could look to as well.”
“I always want to make sure, above all else, that our students are not disadvantaged. Obviously, at times, we will have to look at what happens in other jurisdictions. We cannot have Northern Ireland as an outrider. However, England's position on examinations has been made very clear. Some examinations went ahead very successfully in November, and we anticipate that the pandemic will not be at as great a level next summer as it was at that time. I should say, from a historical point of view, that, while being accused of being Byzantine is obviously a form of insult, that was a very successful empire for many centuries prior to its collapse”
“If, for example, we end up with a COVID tariff and that is the route that we go down for special circumstances — we will need to work with other jurisdictions — I do not want our results to be viewed with suspicion by employers or universities because they have a more generous tariff than elsewhere or — I am sure that this would be of grave concern — if we had a tariff that applied at a much lower level than other jurisdictions, that we would disadvantage our pupils in terms of grades. <BR /> <BR />There is work to be done between boards, with Ofqual and between jurisdictions to try as much as possible — it may or may not be 100% possible — to reach a common position across jurisdictions.”
“I understand that. That is one of a number of options, and probably the most likely option. The point that I am making about any tariff is that we want to make sure that it is, if at all possible, universal. I sympathise with you being the mother of an A2 student, but, at A2 and A level, about 20% of our cohort will do that from boards that are outside Northern Ireland, so we want to make sure that everybody is treated fairly.”
“I would have to get more detail on that. At the moment, while things are a bit unclear in the Republic of Ireland, the suggestion is that they will be doing all the Leaving Cert by way of examinations. We believe that a system that is, broadly speaking, acceptable to universities should be acceptable across the board. However, there will be further engagement as we move ahead, particularly with our colleagues in the Republic of Ireland. <BR /> <BR />There is a North/South Ministerial Council meeting on Friday, so I may be in a position then to raise that issue directly with my opposite number, Norma Foley. Unfortunately, the meeting is not in the beautiful city of Armagh. I say that just to make sure that Mr McNulty is paying attention. We will be doing the meeting via Zoom, but that will still enable that level of engagement.”
“As I am sure the Member is aware, there are already mechanisms whereby, if someone in a — let us call it — normal year has special circumstances through illness or whatever, provision can be made. Anything that we do this year will be on top of that. For instance, if someone is ill for another reason, we need to see how we can adapt that, particularly for those who missed out because of COVID.”
“I can give the Member an absolute assurance on the algorithm. While I am sure that not many of us would be algorithm experts, no algorithm will apply z scores this year. It will be purely on the basis of what a student achieves directly on their own merits and marks, against a backdrop of generosity. <BR /> <BR />The Member is right about differential disruption. Ensuring a considerably reduced level of content goes a long way to meeting a lot of those measures. As I said, I want to explore, hopefully on a cross-jurisdictional basis, how we can apply special circumstances for individual students. That would be in addition to the current provisions.”
“I am very happy to confirm that. As much as we can get fairness and objectivity in the system, it can still depend upon somebody giving a subjective opinion or using a mathematical calculation which adjusts according to how one school does compared to another school. That is a problem that would be there with moderation and centre assessment grades (CAGs).”
“The aim is to ensure that the full course is covered, and we are trying make the best of the situation. <BR /> <BR />I acknowledge that this has been a difficult year for everyone, particularly students. However, while there is hope on the horizon, we are not out of the woods yet.”
“There is no perfect solution, but work has been ongoing, particularly with universities, to try to make sure that there is something in place that is acceptable on grading. While certain decisions lie within the remit of the Minister for the Economy, I will be working alongside her on those issues. <BR /> <BR />The Member makes a valid point about the level of assessment that is there. The aim would be to try to ensure that the full course is taught, however, there is a degree of danger that it will lead to a level of skewing of the course. To be fair, in all of these there is some level of difficulty with any potential solution. I suspect that it will mean that areas that will be directly examined will have a higher percentage level of concentration from the schools. That becomes a certain level of natural consequence.”
“Rather than give something which is definitive and may end up being wrong, we want to work with colleagues across different jurisdictions and exam boards to put in place, ideally, something to meet special circumstances. It is accepted by the Minister for Education in Westminster, in that, as much as possible, if we can reach a UK-wide position on special circumstances, that would be of advantage to all pupils. Depending upon what direction you go in, there is disadvantage in either direction if there is not parity across the board.”
“Yes. On the special circumstances, I want us to have, broadly speaking, a level playing field across the UK. We need to give a good deal of thought to the mitigations, as there are things that can be put in place, which will facilitate students taking those examinations and protect their opportunity to do so. The individual measures that can be put in place will need to be examined. <BR /> <BR />Today's statement is about providing system-wide mitigations. They go a long way in covering individual circumstances, however, there will be those who will still be disadvantaged. It is important that a level of protection is put in place, and that will require further work.”
“I am a little bit restricted in what I can say, as BTECs, and, indeed, the vocational side, come under the control of the Department for the Economy, although I suspect that there will be some read-across. We have been working with the Department for the Economy, but is not my place to make an announcement on behalf of the Economy Minister. Clearly, there will be implications. Across the board, work has been ongoing on how BTECs are reflected, not just here but in other jurisdictions to make sure that we have a fair reflection of the circumstances for BTEC students as well.”
“The marks that they get in the exam will be scaled up, if you like. <BR /> <BR />People can be assured that there will not be an intervention from above. A lot of problems and concerns were created because pupils expected to get a particular grade and then found that, as a result of whatever calculations had been put in place — this was particularly true for small cohorts — they got a different, often lower, grade than anticipated. Although, in some cases, it produced a higher one. The change means that a grade will be awarded purely on how a student performs in an examination.”
“<BR /> <BR />On the issue of the calculations, if someone is sitting one paper, they will simply get the mark that they get, and the grade they get from that paper will not be adjusted by algorithms, which are a mathematical formula, and which were seen to be externally put in place, and that created great concern. Similarly, what is normal for a missed unit is that a Z score is used, which can adjust where a pupil will be. The only adjustment that will be made is if someone is doing, for instance, two papers and those papers are weighted differently, so you may get a situation where, to make up the 40%, two units are used. One unit would normally be worth 20%, and the second worth 30%. In those circumstances, the 30% unit will count 50% more than the 20% unit, if you understand what I mean.”
“It is. The answer to both questions is yes. On A levels and AS levels, schools will make that choice. That is, in part, because there will have been different levels of disruption in schools, and because a large section of a year group may have been off when a particular component of a course was being covered. Schools will be allowed that choice and to concentrate on some of the things that have already been taught. Not every school will have taught things in the same order, so this will enable flexibility to be put in place. As I said, there may still be a very small number of students who want to do everything, and there will be an opportunity for them to do that.”
“If, at this stage, we were to say, "We can take further units out", although clear guidance was given to schools to try to, as much as possible, do things in the same order, we would be omitting some units that some schools might have dealt with extensively and others which they would not have dealt with. Therefore, it is not quite the same position. Again, we are talking about up to a 40% omission on GCSEs as well.”
“It should be noted that, in trying to reach something that is equitable this year, perhaps the focus, at times, has been on the grading of A levels and AS levels. The generosity on grading will also take into account the 2020 standards for GCSEs. As I said, there will be further work on individual special circumstances. We need to make sure that the coverage at GCSE level enables pupils to progress to AS levels and A levels, so there has to be a level of grounding there. <BR /> <BR />Across the board for specific GCSE subjects, the particular units omitted have already been worked on, and schools have been working on those.”
“The problem with reduction there is trying to get something that is equitable. The position on GCSEs was declared earlier through the unit omission. That means that the same units can be omitted across the board so that everybody is on a level playing field with that.”
“All necessary procedures will have been gone through, and we have done that level of consultation. There have been accusations that we have delayed this. The Member needs to be aware that we have been trying to ensure that this has been got right. We could spend the next six months consulting on all these things, but that is not going to be a great deal of use in giving some certainty to pupils. We need to ensure that what we have is robust and has a broader level of buy-in. Indeed, in our adaptations, we have gone a bit further than England while ensuring that those are still acceptable to universities. We have given a level of clarity that is not there in other jurisdictions.”