Peter Weir
Strangford · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Funding was secured for that scheme, and we have been able to take further steps on it. As highlighted by my colleague Diane Dodds, we have seen my successor, the current Minister, be able to implement it at the beginning of September 2021 and funding be made available for it.”
“One of the great fears — I saw it particularly, as Education Minister, from the point of view of children and the domestic setting between partners — was what was going to happen in families when the doors closed and the locks went on. What was happening behind closed doors?”
“There is another significant element of the Bill. I have spoken about it in the Chamber on a couple of occasions. There is always a slight danger that we, as legislators, see legislation as being the end of a process and think that we can pack it away, put it on the shelf and forget about the problem because it has been solved.”
“I welcome the passage of the Bill's Final Stage and commend all the campaigners who have pressed so hard for it and the Bill sponsor. For Pat Catney, hearing some of the tributes must be like hearing eulogies at your funeral, without having to go through the indignity of dying, which is always a double advantage.”
“As highlighted by a number of Members, the impact of period poverty, though not confined to it, has been particularly acute in young women's education. We know that the impact can lead to the missing of education and constraints within education, and that it does so in a disproportionate way.”
“I support the Bill's Final Stage, and I commend the Bill's sponsor for introducing it. I thank the Minister and the Department for the positive attitude that they have taken towards it.”
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“On the contrary, there is some evidence in relation to this, particularly with the differences. There is a limited amount of difference where you have children taught in a two-year composite class, although there is a level of additional differentiation there, which does make it difficult for the teacher. <BR /> <BR />If you speak to the Education and Training Inspectorate (ETI), it will say that it sees a considerable difference where you move beyond a simple two-year composite class and into settings where there are three years or more within a single class. A teacher is therefore trying to provide such a level of differentiation that it does have an impact. That is something that the ETI has raised. <BR /> <BR />Given the number of composite classes, some will continue. There are some very good teachers.”
“Area planning is a continuum, and that will be reflected in the annual area plan. That will, in turn, I suppose, lead to individual development proposals for schools, which will then have to go through a proper legal process. That is where the direct impact will be. A number of significant issues will be addressed. It is not possible to tackle everything at once. Therefore, the aim of the three-year plan is to identify priorities over a three-year period, and then drill down into those into annual plans.”
“The consultation period, as you know, has been launched. It is due to complete on 12 December. It is an Education Authority consultation, and the Education Authority will have responsibility for analysing the responses and presenting a report on the issues raised. That will inform its final strategic plan, which will be for consideration in the new year. <BR /> <BR />The key objective in the area plan has identified the main issue to be addressed, which is a network of educational and financially viable schools. Once we get to that stage, an annual area plan will supplement the strategic area plan, so there will be one for 2017-18, another one for 2018-19 and one for 2019-20. It will contain details of the work programme of the planning and management authorities to address specific issues at local level.”
“That is a good attempt to shoehorn that in. I do not think it has any particular impact on area planning. We need to be responsible in the language we use. As for the money that was not there in 2015-16 to provide that 1%, let us remember that the overall wage bill for schools over the last two years will have gone up by 2·61% as a result of the pay settlements. The position for 2015-16 and 2016-17 is that all teachers below the top level will receive automatic increments. That is not the case in England, Scotland and Wales. <BR /> <BR />In area planning, the need is to focus on the best delivery of the schools estate. What individual teachers will get paid is not particularly relevant to area planning, and we should not be trying to conjoin the issues, even in a desperate attempt for a headline.”
“I appreciate that Members from all parties in all locations will fight for their own area, but we also have to look at this in a mature and strategic way, which asks, "What is the best possible delivery of our education? How do we cope with an educational estate that is not fit for purpose and not meeting the demands of maintenance or educational need?". We need to have that level of mature discussion. It is not a question of money being taken out of education. It is a question of this: if the pressures are in different spheres, the money will be re-circulated within the schools budget.”
“With respect, let me say a couple of things. I do not accept that savings are a major issue in the draft area plan. The key focus of the plan is on ensuring that there is good provision of education. We all have to recognise that there is a degree of financial constraint. If there are changes made to the schools estate, and if they reduce pressures on issues around the small-schools factor, which is part of that, that money will recirculate within the aggregated schools budget. It is not a question of money being taken away from schools. Ultimately, there will be a set amount available to schools, and the distribution of it will depend on the number and location of schools. At the moment, because the schools estate is not fit for purpose, a lot of schools are not getting the level of spending and support that they should.”
“What has happened in the past and will continue to happen is that transferred redundancies will be looked at as the way of doing that, were a particular school to close or amalgamate. Within the system, there is enough provision for that to be taken care of. It is something that, in the past, EA or CCMS, as the managing authorities, have been able to do. Other teachers will be looking to retire, and transferred redundancies are the route to avoiding any form of compulsory redundancy, which no one wants.”
“Let me just tackle a couple of those points. We always have to focus on the schools, and we must ensure that there is proper provision of education for the children. An issue has been highlighted already where there are composite classes. Where, in particular, more than two years are involved, there is the danger that that does not provide the best possible education. On the basis of that, it is my intention to ensure that a strategic look is taken at schools to ensure that we do not have isolated communities and that there is some level of provision within that. <BR /> <BR />In the second or third part of the Member's supplementary question, there was mention of teacher redundancies.”
“It does not identify individual schools, but will act as a catalyst for discussion at a regional and local level. The school planning and managing authorities will engage at a local level to determine the most appropriate area solutions to ensure that children and young people have access to high-quality education, regardless of where they live. The aim at this stage is to look at a Northern Ireland-wide basis, though there is direct reference to the 11 council areas. Schools will be involved in the process at a formative stage and will have the opportunity to inform the development of the area solutions.”
“I thank the Member for clarifying question 1. The draft strategic area plan for Northern Ireland, 'Providing Pathways', focuses on the education interests of children and young people. It aims to ensure that all pupils have access to a broad and balanced curriculum that meets their needs, delivered by schools that are educationally and financially viable. In the development of the draft strategic area plan for 2017-2020, the Education Authority (EA), working with the Council for Catholic Maintained Schools (CCMS) and the other sectoral support bodies, has analysed the current position and identified key strategic themes and issues that are impacting on the education system. <BR /> <BR />It is important to note that the draft strategic area plan is out to consultation at present, so we are not at the final stage.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I put it on record that there were indications given at that stage that there was additional funding provided by the Department of Finance. Those schools are funded as part of that, so it crosses the various sectors.”
“Nurture units are funded under a particular programme that is time-limited and separate from the main education budget. When we talk about "mainstreaming", we mean taking that into the main education budget and having something permanent.”
“I think that we all want to see an expansion. I appreciate that there may be a bit of difference in terms of the wording of amendments etc.”
“I thank the Member for giving way and for her comments. When I was at Middletown, I had the opportunity to speak to the incoming chair of the group. At that stage, there had been a delay. Some of the appointments to the board come from my Department, and some come from the Department in the Republic of Ireland. At that stage, we had made the appointments and the Republic had not. Subsequent to that visit, Minister Bruton from the Republic's Government made those appointments. That means that we now have a full board. I will be happy to have ongoing engagement — that is probably the best route — with the board as we move ahead, because it is obviously in the best position to make a judgement on that. I am happy to give that assurance.”
“Importantly for Middletown, we need to continue to focus on developing effective child-centred services based on best practice, so I reject the analysis that the failure to provide residential provision at Middletown represents a setback for autism services: it does not. That flies in the face of the independent inspection reports and the views expressed to me by all stakeholders. I do not see it as being a setback, and I believe that the best way forward is to continue on the route we have been on. That is why, with all sincerity, I have to oppose the motion and ask whether, in light of what has been said, the supporters of the motion want to carry on with it or whether the fact that we have had the debate has, at least, been able to unearth a degree of light.”
“If the new directors decide on a different emphasis, I will take their professional judgement and move in that direction, but, as things stand, the focus has got to be on outreach. If there is significant change, that is likely to have a price tag attached, and we have to ensure that we get the best delivery for that. <BR /> <BR />I am happy to work, as and when required, with Executive colleagues, the centre, its board of directors and the Department of Education and Skills on the services provided by the centre. All of us have a role in enhancing educational achievement and providing the best pathways, particularly for those with special educational needs such as autism.”
“However, from speaking to the person who was, I think, about to be the chair of the board and to parents, children and Autism NI during my recent visit, I see that there is a clear direction of travel that says the route to go is outreach and increased levels of outreach rather than residential. That is the danger with that. <BR /> <BR />As we move forward, it is important to ensure that the services delivered reflect best practice. That is why the centre continues to use the latest research, including the findings from its intensive intervention service, to support future training. The new board of directors will consider the future direction of services as part of the centre's business planning process.”
“<BR /> <BR />Mrs Armstrong said that there were still parents who were unaware of Middletown, and we must reach out to those people. I appreciate that you can always do certain things that are to the benefit of very small groups of children, but, to reach the maximum number of children, any additional resources should mostly be directed to outreach because that is the best bit. That is why I oppose the motion. I oppose it not simply because of that conviction but from discussions with the staff and the board when I was in Middletown. At that point, we were waiting for the appointments from the Republic of Ireland; we had made the Northern Ireland appointments.”
“Investment in online training is also ongoing to provide easier access to those who are unable to attend events, such as the refreshers and updates for those who have already received training. <BR /> <BR />Much has been made of the financial situation, and I appreciate that, as an Executive, we need to see what more we can do on autism. Take Mr Lunn's point — he suddenly pays attention at this point. He spoke of what we could do if, for example, there was a 50% increase in funding. However, if we were to move to an additional residential model and do it properly, we would have to treble the budget. At the moment, if someone gave me 50% more money for Middletown, I would look to expand the outreach services, because that is the greatest need.”
“The result was the joint government approach and policy decision to establish Middletown Centre for Autism to provide a specialist second-level autism support service. I think that the centre is delivering on the original concept and is having a wider-reaching and more positive impact with the outreach learning, support and assessment service. <BR /> <BR />I also highlight that the centre has been developing its services by assisting whole schools to develop their capacity to support pupils with autism, working in the referred schools to bring about a culture change and increasing the school’s confidence and capacity to respond to the needs of learners with autism. One intervention creates positive ripples on the pond.”
“<BR /> <BR />Looking back at the original rationale for Middletown, it was based on the need to:”
“They did not feel that it would be in the best interests of the child to attend on that basis, as it would take the child away from family and family surroundings. However, they told me that the intensive outreach intervention programme that was provided in their home and in their child’s school made all the difference to their lives. They described it as "life-changing", and they were very emotional in their praise of Middletown staff. A number of other parents took a similar position. <BR /> <BR />The centre's staff has advised me that, while a residential facility might assist a small number of children, the centre’s current approach has a much more prolonged impact, as the outreach model allows all those young people to be a part of the young person’s life. Therefore, it has a much greater impact.”
“In fact, the service is having a wide-ranging positive impact not just on the referred pupils but on teachers, parents, siblings and other members of the family and, indeed, other children with autism who attend that child’s school. It is difficult to see that outstanding provision as a setback for autism, considering that those wider-reaching impacts would never have been achieved if we had simply gone down the residential route. <BR /> <BR />At a recent visit to the centre in August, I spoke to the parents of a child who had been referred to Middletown. They explained that they were initially very apprehensive about the offer of support from Middletown, as they thought that their child would have to attend the centre on a residential basis.”
“It is unfortunate that the proposers of the motion appear to have missed those positive reports and focused instead on the lack of residential assessment, perceiving that to be a setback to autism services. I do not believe that that is the case. We are all aware of the background; I have dealt with it. The outreach service is fundamentally the same assessment and support service for children with autism as was originally intended. It provides the assessment, therapies and education plan to meet the individual needs of the child. However, significantly, it is delivered in the child’s home and school setting for up to three school terms, instead of residentially at the Middletown centre.”
“The most recent inspection highlighted the fact that the services impacted significantly on the education and life experiences of referred pupils, their teachers and their parents. Key strengths highlighted in the evaluation relate to the multidisciplinary nature of the outreach service and the extent and duration of the centre's involvement in pupils' home and school simultaneously. The quality of leadership and management was also described as being outstanding.”
“However, the virtuous element of that is that the rejigging followed best practice and has turned out to be the better route. <BR /> <BR />Since October 2010, the centre has provided assessment and support to children through its outreach service. The wider impact means that other children with autism, not just those who are referred, receive support, either as part of the referred child's class or via teacher training. To date, it is estimated that that has impacted on around 3,000 children and young people. <BR /> <BR />As Members will be aware, two joint inspections have taken place, in April 2012 and April 2016. The idea of review may therefore be a little premature at this stage. Both inspections evaluated the provision of services as outstanding.”
“What has been acknowledged, I think, by the centre is that residential would be of some value to a small number of children, but it has also said that the current outreach intervention work is having a much more immediate and prolonged impact, not only on children and young people with autism who are referred but on their families, on school staff and on pupils. <BR /> <BR />I was going to deal with the point that was raised by the SDLP, but its members seem to have left the Chamber. I will maybe come back to that. I am grateful to see that Mark has returned. Mr Durkan asked why there was the shift. There were two reasons for it. The less beneficial one was the fact that the level of finance that was proposed, particularly from the Republic of Ireland, decreased. It was not able to be provided. That meant a certain rejigging of the model.”
“We will be pressing it on better ways in which those training records can be provided. Thirdly, it has a research and information service that requires the most up-to-date information, techniques and best practice to be used. To date, the centre has provided training to over 62,000 parents and education professionals in the Republic and Northern Ireland. If there is a case for a some officials having a wider scope, I am sure that that can be looked at. <BR /> <BR />May I correct one thing that the proposer said? I have not been able to find any record of where I said that I believe that residential is a better way forward or, indeed, that it should be part of the way forward.”
“The increased number of pupils, parents and professionals who have benefited from the centre's services is evidence of the fact that the centre has become an important part of the specialist second-tier services available to support children in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. Indeed, the success of that is borne out by the various inspection reports. <BR /> <BR />The motion goes very much to the heart of the delivery of the model that will be provided. The centre's current service model has three elements to it. First, it has an intensive one-to-one multidisciplinary assessment and support outreach service for pupils with the most complex autism needs. Secondly, it has a training and advisory service that provides training to education professionals and parents. Mention has been made of the Education Authority records.”
“I know that the Health Minister, the First Minister and the deputy First Minister have recently met representatives of those organisations. There is a determination to try to resolve the issues. As we move through the mandate, we will be contributing to the ongoing autism strategy, the lead for which again lies with another Department. <BR /> <BR />One of the things that has united the House in its approach is the fairly consistent welcoming of the good work and progress that is being made by the Middletown Centre for Autism, and by my Department and the Department of Education and Skills in the Republic of Ireland, as they work together to promote excellence in the development and delivery of education services for children and young people with autistic spectrum disorders.”
“I will deal with a couple of the points. Both the visit to Middletown and the recent meeting with representatives of the all-party group on autism and Autism NI have been mentioned. The proposer also mentioned 'Broken Promises'. As a Department, we are trying to deliver on those, particularly through teacher training, which was mentioned and is one of the key aspects of Middletown. <BR /> <BR />There has been a great deal of criticism, particularly of the diagnostic side of things. Delivery for probably the majority of 'Broken Promises' lies with the Department of Health, which leads on autism, but I am very encouraged by the level of engagement across the Executive with Autism NI and the National Autistic Society NI. It has not been just me.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am getting indications that I do not have to take the full 15 minutes, but we shall see how it goes. <BR /> <BR />I thank all the Members who took part in the debate, which was very constructive. I even find myself in the rare situation of agreeing with Steven Agnew, which does not happen all that often. I welcome the opportunity to discuss the work at Middletown. While I disagree with the motion and will, therefore, vote against it if it is moved, I appreciate that the motivation behind it is very genuine and sincere in trying to focus on the particular way forward for Middletown. <BR /> <BR />Perhaps unsurprisingly, the debate on a motion dealing very directly and specifically with the Middletown centre quite often diverged into wider issues around autism; that is quite understandable.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I apologise for any facetious remarks that I made earlier, seeing as he now seems to be agreeing with me. <BR /> <BR />Does he agree that one of the advantages of the different model that has been put in place, the one that has been borne out in time, is that, because the workers deal with children in their own school, there has also been a positive spin-off for the schools? Schools that may not have a particular experience of autism beyond the family of the autistic pupil involved have gained a much greater understanding of autism, and that has prepared them a lot better for having any other children who are somewhere on the autistic spectrum. The current system therefore has an unforeseen benefit.”
“This will get her an extra minute. The Member indicated, particularly from parental feedback, the invaluable service that Middletown provides. It is a model largely of outreach and direct engagement with parents. In the light of that, will she indicate why she is commending a motion — I appreciate the general remarks made about autism — that would shift Middletown away from being an outreach model towards being a residential model? That would take the centre in the wrong direction for dealing with autism.”
“we need to take these steps in a strategic manner. The key point is that we need to ensure that schools are serving our children and young people.”
“I want our young people to have a first-class education system that develops their knowledge and skills and draws out their talents. If we are to achieve the Programme for Government outcome:”
“<BR /> <BR />I want local communities and elected representatives to engage in meaningful and mature debate about what is best for our young people to equip them for further education, training, work and life in the 21st century. I want them to let their views be known, and I reiterate that I urge everyone to engage actively in the Education Authority consultation on the draft area plan to help to shape future education provision in the best interests of all young people. When we reach the point at which there is a finalised area plan and we move towards more localised detailed plans, I want people to engage with that. <BR /> <BR />The process cannot be about sectors, managing and planning authorities or even Departments. Ultimately, it has to be about young people and their needs.”
“As indicated in the catchment area, enough pupils reside in the local area to support a large and vibrant controlled post-primary school, yet, every day in Newtownards, young people leave the town to attend other controlled post-primary schools in Comber, Bangor, Dundonald and, indeed, parts of Down. <BR /> <BR />It is a perfect example of why we need strategic planning rather than focusing in on individual schools, and why we need sustainable schools serving pupils well. When we look at that, it is important to ensure that, whatever schools we have, particularly at post-primary level in years 8 to 12, provide a sufficiently broad and balanced curriculum.”
“I want boards of governors and principals, of whatever school, to examine critically the sustainability issues facing their school and how they can be tackled to benefit pupils. Every school should work with the managing authority to ensure that sustainability issues are proactively addressed. <BR /> <BR />I now return to the situation in Newtownards. Philip Smith highlighted the fact that, in Newtownards, with a population of 28,000 to 29,000 people, there is clearly an issue about the post-primary provision to meet the needs of young people in the town, but let us put it in context: Newtownards is larger than Newry City, Coleraine, Antrim, Omagh, Banbridge or Armagh. It is inconceivable that the town does not require and cannot support a good school.”
“It can unintentionally focus on what is negative about a school to the exclusion of what is being achieved, often in very difficult and challenging circumstances. The Member has highlighted a number of the issues that the school is facing. I welcome the improvement in its results, but it has also been acknowledged in the debate that it is a school that is in formal intervention; it has a projected deficit over £1 million, which has been highlighted; and it has had a problem with enrolment. <BR /> <BR />Setting that aside, and looking at the wider context, it is incumbent on the board of governors of every school to ensure that it is effectively managed. The first duty is to ensure that pupils receive a quality education.”
“He should know full well that if any of those options come forward, that would be a development proposal and, as Minister for Education, I would have to give a legal ruling on it. Therefore, I cannot be drawn into comment on any individual school which could be perceived as predetermining any future decision. I am a little bit disappointed that the Member does not know that. <BR /> <BR />It is clear that the provision of education at Movilla, particularly for its pupils, is an important issue, because of the impact on individual pupils. But, focusing on a single school can be counterproductive. It can highlight and heighten the concerns of parents, pupils, teachers and the wider community.”
“I want people in the community to have information on the context and know that area solutions are required if we are going to ensure that all pupils have access to equality of education and fulfil their potential. It is about looking at what is best for the overall area and what is best for the pupil. <BR /> <BR />It is therefore a little bit regrettable that just one week later we get a spotlight from one Member on a single school rather than focusing on the wider issues and outcomes that need to be addressed. Mr Nesbitt talked about wanting to get certainty tonight. Mr Nesbitt is either showing a lack of knowledge of the process or is, alternatively, being a little bit mischievous. He mentioned a range of options for Movilla, whether that is closure, any of the four options of the EA, the 4B option, or indeed any option.”
“As I said in my statement to the Assembly, the document that has been produced highlights, for the first time, the strategic issues facing our education system in the primary, post-primary and special education sectors. I clearly stated the importance of helping communities understand the high-level issues that need to be addressed so that they can contribute to the solutions that are needed. The document listed the special schools but did not refer to any particular school. I would encourage everyone in the community, and elected representatives and schools, to contribute to the consultation during the discussion on the draft area plan and when more localised plans come forward.”
“I will be commenting on various things, but one thing I probably will not comment on, as a Bangor supporter, is the future of Ards Football Club. <BR /> <BR />I do not agree with everything that Mr Lyttle says, but I will pick up on one point: our principal focus should always be on the pupil and on providing that pupil with high-quality access to high-quality education. <BR /> <BR />Last week saw the launch of the Education Authority’s (EA) draft strategic area plan, and it is out for consultation. While I have commented on it, the pedant in me will say that it is neither mine nor the Department's, it is the Education Authority's plan, so just to correct that.”
“There can be positive links and this can be a win-win for everyone, so I am very happy to support the motion.”
“If we are looking to turn the curve and trying to make that particular intervention for many families, the status quo is not an option. Going forward, we need to look at things differently and use the data and evidence more effectively to prioritise investment. <BR /> <BR />I am committed to doing as much as I can, and I will also take on board all that has been said in this debate. All of us have a role to play in enhancing educational achievement, whether it is those of us in the Chamber or those of us in schools or community partnerships.”
“Obviously, safeguarding is a sine qua non in that regard, and it permeates everything. In community development, particularly if we are looking to tackle educational underachievement, there are schemes that are brought from the grass roots up, such as those in west Belfast and on the Shankill. At times, there were attempts at government intervention years ago, which, because they were imposed down, did not take root in the community. However, where there is community buy-in, that is particularly important. <BR /> <BR />I am particularly committed to ensuring that we get that investment in early intervention, and a number of schemes have been put in place. The evidence that is being drawn from that will be critical as we move ahead.”
“<BR /> <BR />While the constraints of budget, particularly in terms of extension, can be a major challenge and there will be a certain level of restraint, partnership working affords us with an opportunity to have new ways of looking at things. Sometimes, that is not simply about better delivery but about more efficient delivery.”
“The motion mentions support for expanding services, and I am very happy to give as much support as I can. When it comes to the Budget for 2017-18, I hope that the Members opposite can have some influence on the Finance Minister. I know that he is always very keen to be as accommodating as possible. The Budget is yet to be agreed, and I anticipate that we are still going to have a challenging Budget. I will always be arguing for additional funds for education, but this is where there are opportunities as well as challenges. At times when we are facing a level of austerity, it is important that with whatever investment is there, whether it is in education or any other area, we get the maximum return for our investment and help turn the curve, as the saying goes, for so many children, families and communities.”
“There will be an opportunity during this Assembly mandate to look at the curriculum. It is vital that, while protecting people's academic chances, we focus on how we can increase vocational pathways. <BR /> <BR />Mrs Overend referred to the FAST programme, and I highlight again that that is something that is made available through extended-schools funding. It operates in Twinbrook in Holy Evangelists' Primary School, and it is a good example of that funding. <BR /> <BR />I see that time is marching on. Carla Lockhart highlighted very clearly that there is also a need to ensure that there are strong linkages between schools and the business community. I know that there is an appetite in the business community for that. <BR /> <BR />As partners, much has been done, but there is much more to be done.”