Peter Weir
Strangford · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Funding was secured for that scheme, and we have been able to take further steps on it. As highlighted by my colleague Diane Dodds, we have seen my successor, the current Minister, be able to implement it at the beginning of September 2021 and funding be made available for it.”
“One of the great fears — I saw it particularly, as Education Minister, from the point of view of children and the domestic setting between partners — was what was going to happen in families when the doors closed and the locks went on. What was happening behind closed doors?”
“There is another significant element of the Bill. I have spoken about it in the Chamber on a couple of occasions. There is always a slight danger that we, as legislators, see legislation as being the end of a process and think that we can pack it away, put it on the shelf and forget about the problem because it has been solved.”
“I welcome the passage of the Bill's Final Stage and commend all the campaigners who have pressed so hard for it and the Bill sponsor. For Pat Catney, hearing some of the tributes must be like hearing eulogies at your funeral, without having to go through the indignity of dying, which is always a double advantage.”
“As highlighted by a number of Members, the impact of period poverty, though not confined to it, has been particularly acute in young women's education. We know that the impact can lead to the missing of education and constraints within education, and that it does so in a disproportionate way.”
“I support the Bill's Final Stage, and I commend the Bill's sponsor for introducing it. I thank the Minister and the Department for the positive attitude that they have taken towards it.”
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“I would like to think that, particularly when we are talking about science issues, it is always evidence-based. From the point of view of the curriculum, I will make two points. I have a great deal of faith in our schools and our teachers to be able to use their autonomy wisely, and I do not think that it is particularly my role to impose on them. Indeed, I am under a restriction, as any Education Minister would be — it is the right restriction — under the 2006 Order, which means that Ministers are barred from indicating particular time frames to schools that they need to set aside for particular subjects. That is about ensuring that there is not micromanagement or interference.”
“The Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment supports this by developing curricular resources for schools and teachers, including resources that cover issues like climate change. Of course, there is always more that can be done, and my Department will be working alongside the rest of the Executive to develop that climate change strategy.”
“During that, pupils will explore environmental and climate change and how to exercise environmental stewardship, and are helped to develop an understanding of the need for environmental change to be sustainable. Pupils can gain an understanding of the interdependence of society, the economy and the environment and can develop respect for the needs of present and future generations and the importance of securing a sustainable environment. Pupils also have the opportunity to pursue qualifications at Key Stage 4 and post-16 that explicitly cover issues relevant to climate change. <BR /> <BR />The curriculum is designed to be adaptable and dynamic. It devolves a great deal of autonomy to schools and trusts the professionalism of teachers. The aim is to lift the burden of prescription and allow space for innovative approaches to learning.”
“I thank the Member for her question. This is a very important subject, as was highlighted by the fact that it was one of the first debates in the Assembly, and I know that the Member opposite was instrumental in bringing forward that motion. <BR /> <BR />Climate change should concern us all and the Executive, as a whole, are committed to tackling it, and New Decade, New Approach signalled its intention to develop a strategy to address the immediate and longer-term impact. Education plays a critical role in educating our youngest citizens on this subject, and sustainable development is already part of the curriculum at primary level via The World Around Us and through the environment and society elements of learning at Key Stage 3.”
“Alongside a desire to ensure that industrial action is brought to an end, we should get the requisite training for all our teachers on preventing bullying, because, from whatever source, whatever motivation and whatever false prospectus anybody uses for bullying, whether it is in school or outside school, it is wrong. It is a very clear-cut message. We heard that across the Chamber, particularly from our young people at the event on Friday.”
“Perhaps the Member has the legislation to hand. Mention is made in the legislation that, essentially, the bullying incident would be recorded as well as its nature and cause. My view is that bullying is wrong no matter from what source it comes. <BR /> <BR />The next step, I suppose, before we look directly at any forms of amending legislation, is that there would be consultation soon on how we actually implement the legislation. The Northern Ireland Anti-Bullying Forum has drawn up guidelines that are in a position to be rolled out fairly quickly. There have been some problems with rolling out the training on that that, to some extent, have been a by-product of industrial action in some schools.”
“It is important to deal with any bullying incident from whatever source it comes. When the previous Minister brought in anti-bullying legislation, I was Chair of the Education Committee, and I think that it is important that all incidents are recorded.”
“As I said, we need to make sure that we are well placed on connectivity. On the 14-to-19 strategy, for example, I will be looking to work with the Department for the Economy. Issues around early interventions, for example, are sometimes cross-cutting between Health and even Justice or Communities. Mental health issues in schools are also cross-cutting. Therefore, a lot of this requires joined-up thinking and joined-up work. I will be very happy to work on the broadband issue with my colleague and, indeed, with other Departments to help to deliver that.”
“The direct detail on the broadband strategy, which I think schools can benefit from, is ultimately being driven by the Department for the Economy. Indeed, it is important that promises that were made on the investment in broadband infrastructure are delivered on by government centrally. As I said, the detail of the roll-out is a matter directly for a different Department, but improved rural broadband will have a very positive impact on our schools. I have visited schools and seen, quite often on some of the digital skills and the use of good broadband, very intelligently used teaching techniques to make use of electronic devices.”
“I do not want to overhype things. If we are in a situation where things are resolved, that produces a positive way forward. If they are not resolved, there is always the risk of escalation, so the Member is right to highlight that. The question of how confident I am about securing resources might be better directed to the Minister opposite.”
“I indicated to them that, if sufficient finance is there, I will move on that very quickly. It is important to get a level of industrial harmony. Arising out of that will also be a range of work streams looking at conditions, and there are opportunities to have win-wins. Changes need to be made on issues around administration, inspection, substitution etc. Without prejudicing anything in the work streams, I will be looking to see how quickly we can move ahead with those things. If something good can be done, the quicker it is done, the better.”
“If this was pantomime season, I would be tempted to say that the genie has just appeared from across the Chamber in terms of the Minister of Finance. I will be working with the Minister of Finance and the rest of the Executive as part of the broader budgetary process. There will be an opportunity in roughly a week's time to meet on a one-to-one basis with the Minister of Finance. <BR /> <BR />The Member is right to mention pay and conditions, because there is sometimes a pure focus on one without the other. I have had a very good meeting with the unions since I have been in office, and I indicated that, at least on the 2017-19 phase, there is largely agreement on something that is, to borrow from our Prime Minister, oven-ready. All we need is the direct finance to do that.”
“Sometimes, that can lead to certain levels of efficiencies, but efficiencies do not come with an easy button to press; that will require a level of change, which will be a challenge to all of us across the House.”
“It depends a little bit, because I have seen some statistics, but I am not sure that they are particularly accurate. As with any set of statistics, you can question their variable base. I can only reiterate that I will try to ensure that, as far as possible, front-line services are delivered within the budget. <BR /> <BR />One of the issues we probably have with classroom sizes is the high variability in our system. Sometimes, we see several year groups being taught by one teacher, particularly in primary schools, which is not a particularly good thing. Also, in post-primary schools, we sometimes see circumstances in which the full range of subjects cannot be provided. That is part of a wider reform agenda. At times, that will require a driver to ensure that we get the best possible results for our children.”
“<BR /> <BR />Certainly, any places that can make efficiencies will be looked at, because, roughly speaking, about 80% of the overall cost of education is from salaries. I will direct as much of that as possible to front-line services, and sometimes that will mean that difficult decisions need to be taken.”
“Certainly, there is a priority to ensure that what is there is for front-line teaching. Where there can be efficiencies, part of the bid for next year, as it was for this year, will be around where voluntary redundancies can happen in administration. <BR /> <BR />Whatever level of budget there is, there is a priority to put the maximum amount into front-line services. Perhaps rightly so, the majority of the money within the Department of Education goes directly into teachers' salaries and the clear majority goes directly into schools, so to some extent, whilst there are efficiencies that can be driven from the system, and this is one aspect that will need to be looked at in the wider review of education, I am not convinced that there is a large pool of money. If it was easy for it to be drawn down, that would have been done by now.”
“We can get the detail of the exact amounts. On the direct inputs of those funds into the Department of Education, we tend to be at the lower scale compared with some other Departments. Obviously, there will be engagement with the Executive and the UK Government on where we can find additional funding and where there will be replacement funding. One of the bonuses of Brexit will be the opportunity for the Northern Ireland Executive to receive additional funds that might otherwise have gone to the EU. We have to make sure that those funds are spent in as appropriate a manner as possible.”
“I am happy to engage with any particular programme. There can be great value in shared education and other activities. As such, despite Brexit, there will be opportunities for that level of cooperation. Looking at some wider context, when a new Government emerge in the Republic of Ireland, there will be certain cross-border aspects that we will need to look at as well. I am very open-minded about trying to engage in any shape or form to build on those experiences. Again, if there are any routes by which additional funding can be levered in, I am very open to them.”
“From that point of view, while the Department sets the numbers and can give a level of direction, the details of the curriculum, ultimately, will be set in conjunction with the teacher training bodies. Ultimately, if there are additional costs, they will probably be borne by the Department for the Economy. If we are to do something, it cannot be done a shoestring; it has to be fit for purpose. I am very keen on any additional resources that my Department can get. I think that I said last week that the one thing that you can pretty much be sure of in education is that, if money is there, it will get spent.”
“I am always keen to seek any form of funding. If the Member opposite can have a word with his constituency colleague for Newry and Armagh, the Finance Minister, I would greatly appreciate any assistance that can be given. <BR /> <BR />There are opportunities. As we move towards an SEN framework, the training of teachers will carry a price tag with it. I think that we could create something that is integrated. I think that I mentioned in last week's debate that work also needs to be done on initial teacher education. That will require the cooperation of not just the Department but the Department for the Economy and the teacher training institutions.”
“I do not in any way want to enter a turf war, but there seems to be a little bit of divergence in the particular positions of the unions; The NASUWT and the Ulster Teachers' Union seem to come from quite different positions. I will work with all the stakeholders to try to ensure that we implement the best possible provision of autism training. If we could get the teaching profession to speak with one voice, that would be helpful as well. <BR /> <BR />Obviously, the challenges are there as to how we best put it in place, both in initial teacher education and, given some of the expertise out there, in rolling it out to the present teaching workforce so that we ensure that all our pupils get the best possible provision for and awareness of autism in particular.”
“I judge it by the pragmatic success story that our schools have been. Northern Ireland has continually achieved the highest results at GCSE level. Less than 1% of our pupils leave without any GCSE qualifications at all. We have seen a steady improvement in the results of pupils on free school meals; indeed, the gap is closing. As I indicated, even for non-selective schools in our system, the results are higher than the OECD average and the average for Wales. The proof of the pudding is very much in the eating. The reality is that we are not living in some utopian type of system. I note that the Member, therefore, wants to see the abolition of grammar schools. If we were to do so —.”
“What I said was intended to try to produce, to a certain extent, a more level playing field, and it was also done on the basis that, whatever was happening, it was not to be to the detriment of the curriculum being provided in primary schools.”
“I appreciate that the Member is somewhat new to this place, but he may find that my decision was effectively the reverse. Guidance was issued by the Department to schools that essentially said, "You are not to do anything that prepares up". What happened was that it became a certain level of false prospectus, in that some schools were providing coaching but, perhaps, not letting the Department of Education know, while some were abiding by the guidance. I actually said that I was leaving it up to the schools to decide. <BR /> <BR />The Member mentioned coaching. Where there is a ban in place on doing any preparation in schools, coaching will still happen, but, again, it will be those who are in the best position financially to afford it who will get that coaching.”
“Whatever the flaws are with academic selection, by comparison, the system across the water drives a much more unequal society. <BR /> <BR />If we look at the intake in our universities, we will see that we have a much more diverse level of social mobility than in other places. We have seen a steady rise in the success rate of those on free school meals, for instance. We have a system in which, last year, non-selective schools outperformed the average in Wales and, indeed, are ahead of the OECD average. While there could be criticisms of our current system, there is a lot of success to be celebrated as well. If we simply view educational underachievement through the prism of academic selection, we will have missed a trick.”
“I could hurry on to other questions by simply saying no. In my experience, academic selection is an argument that, in this jurisdiction and across other jurisdictions, has been raging for 50 or 60 years. There is unlikely to be a level of consensus on it. I take a view that we should compare academic selection with the likely alternative. For instance, across the water in England, there is a system of public schools — private education — where those who are wealthiest are effectively able to buy the best education. There are those who look for schools that will provide a particular education and judge areas where the house prices go up as possibly having the best schools. The alternative is therefore selection by wealth.”
“Early interventions are the critical bit, because, to some extent, if a problem is persisting at age 11, there is a good argument that we have not really sorted out the problem. I look forward to many fine engagements with the Member in his now elevated role of Chief Whip of the party opposite.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Member will be aware that there is a wide range of views on academic selection. It may be that the Member and I do not quite have a simpatico view on the benefits or otherwise of academic selection. I support the right of schools to use academic selection. Our system has to ensure that it has opportunities for all. When looking at educational underachievement, I consider one of the problems to be that there is sometimes too much of a focus on what happens precisely at 11. Critically, if we are to make big differences when it comes to educational underachievement, a lot of the focus has to be on early interventions. To be fair to the Member and his predecessors, that has been realised for many years and been implemented for many years.”
“I was wondering how quickly academic selection would come in. There has been much controversy over language in the last months, so it is perhaps a risk to introduce a fourth language into the equation, but there is a little bit of, "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose", from the Member. As nobody has earphones, I should say that that translates as, "The more things change, the more they stay the same". While the report has not been formally submitted to the Department, the findings will be considered. I note that the report talks about further research to develop bespoke solutions. That underlines the commitment in 'New Decade, New Approach' to establishing an expert group to establish the link between educational underachievement and socio-economic background, and it is vital that we take the opportunity to explore that.”
“That sometimes gives assurance to people, but it can also mean that what we have is not up to date with what is required. Hopefully, the flow of secure information can make the system a little more agile; it certainly cannot hurt. Hopefully, it will also mean that, in respect of special educational needs, we can look at more tailored interventions and, indeed, perhaps earlier interventions. In the past, there has maybe been a little bit too much of a one-size-fits-all approach.”
“To be fair to the Education Authority, it has introduced a couple of digital systems recently, the trialling of which has actually worked out quite well: for instance, the checking of eligibility tor transport worked well. It is important that there is that level of agility. If we are talking about the digital system, the agility is largely about the transfer of information. The information can transfer, but it is important that we have a wider level of support and protection for special needs education. This will also feed into the new SEN framework, which I hope to consult on in the spring. It is important that we have adaptability. One of the problems that there has been in the past is that a particular assessment is done on a child and then it becomes a fixed point, effectively.”
“Once the testing has been done in respect of GDPR, I will urge parents to give their consent, but that is obviously a choice for each individual parent.”
“The Member raises an important point. The work that is being done between the EA and the health trusts to trial this and ensure that what they have is fit for purpose has to be on the basis that the information is secure. The EA and the health trusts are testing the secure sending of this before it goes live. All documents used to collate and share information relating to statutory assessment have been amended to include explicit parental consent — there is no point in going ahead with any sharing of information unless it is with the buy-in of parents — and ensure that they are GDPR-compliant. While explicit consent will be a choice for the individual parents, the process will mean that there is a better sharing of data and hopefully a more timely, more efficient and better process.”
“Whatever the audit comes back with, if there are key recommendations, it is important they are implemented swiftly, so that we are not faced, particularly when it comes to the placement of children with special educational needs, with another summer of difficulties when records appear to be lost and there is inadequate communication. It is a time of high stress when a family is looking at where their child will be placed for their special educational needs. It about getting the substance right but also ensuring that the communication strategy is right.”
“I understand that the audit has reached completion. It will be shared first of all, I think, with the Education Authority board. I hope to receive that fairly soon. <BR /> <BR />It is important, in terms of processes, to get this right. While much of that is directly for the EA to implement, as a Department and as a Minister, we want to make sure that all provisions are made and lessons learned for our special needs children and particularly for their parents. All of us as MLAs will have experienced the frustration of individual parents and throughout our constituency.”
“The EA and the health trusts are testing a mechanism to securely transfer information between them electronically, because we live in an era of GDPR and, indeed, data protection.”
“The Member is right. There is a desire to look at that, and it is perhaps most acute in special needs education. Across the board, where there is unnecessary duplication — sometimes it can be between different statutory bodies in education or across education — we need to look at how we can roll back and ensure that how the burden can be reduced for parents and schools is almost a separate issue. <BR /> <BR />Very specifically, on the issue of the health trusts, led by my Department, there is an implementation of improvements to the joint education and health notification referral and statutory assessment — NRSA — project, which is nearing completion. Many of the key recommendations have been implemented: for example, revised standard templates for the health trusts to record information needed for statutory assessment.”
“<BR /> <BR />Key metrics of the process will be expected to include reduced time for statutory assessments; reduced costs of administration of those statutory assessments; improvement in the experience of the assessment and review process for parents and service users — considerable concerns have, at times, been raised about that, particularly by parents; improvement in the quality and timeliness of information for service providers; advanced analytics; and an electronic system of record-keeping.”
“The Education Authority is engaged in phase 1 of a small business research initiative procurement process that includes the development and introduction of an electronic system of record-keeping for special educational needs assessments. This phase of the process is due for completion on 31 March 2020. The objectives of the process are to improve efficiency and effectiveness in the use of data to provide a child-centric and insight-driven service for parents, carers and young people with SEN. Be it in education or other fields, we can talk about vast statistics, but behind, for instance, any decision on special needs education, as, indeed, on other issues, we should all remember we are talking about individual children, so it has to be child-centric.”
“I know, even from experience simply as an MLA, that, on occasions, schools had maybe an unrealistic figure that reflected a decision taken in the 1970s or 1980s. It is important that schools are not artificially held back from doing that. It would then be for Hardy to engage with the Education Authority on the right-sizing. At the moment, because of the way the numbers work, there is a certain barrier for the school. <BR /> <BR />2.15 pm”
“<BR /> <BR />It is for a range of schools that find themselves in that situation to see whether, working with the managing authority, they can submit a development proposal that allows a level of rightsizing.”
“Hardy Memorial Primary School could be subject to a development proposal, so I may be limited in what I can say directly. Generically, there are a number of schools across Northern Ireland that, in terms of their enrolment figures and their admissions, while they can be very healthy, perhaps reflect a particular historical situation or a set of circumstances that did not actually take place. <BR /> <BR />That is important, because schools that find themselves in that position can then come up against an artificial barrier, which is that, if they are failing to have or unable to have the level of enrolment, with a gap of about 15% between that and what they are entitled to do, they can find themselves running up against the barrier of the gateway check, which means that they do not count as a sustainable school.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Hardy Memorial Primary School is not currently listed for significant capital investment. In order for any school to obtain capital investment, it needs to be selected following a call for either a school enhancement programme or major capital projects. The most recent call for major capital projects started in September 2019 and closed on 31 October 2019. The managing authority for schools, the Education Authority, did not put the school forward under that call. In the first instance, it will be for the Education Authority to decide whether Hardy Memorial Primary School meets the criteria for major works and, if so, to forward the proposal to the Department for consideration in a future announcement.”
“The increase in identification, however, has led to an increase in numbers, and the school estate has to keep pace with that. While Clifton School is, historically speaking, one of the more recently built special educational needs schools, it is the case that, in terms of the priority list, there are a number of schools in Belfast whose accommodation needs date back many years. <BR /> <BR />The important thing, as we move ahead on special needs, is that, as much as possible, for those particularly vulnerable children, we provide the best possible facilities that we can. All of us would share in that goal.”
“I am not privy to what the original plans were. There have been various changes in special needs education over the years, particularly in school numbers. While there has been a desire to have as many special needs children as possible in mainstream education, one of the very positive things that we have seen is a better diagnosis of special needs. Also, as the years have gone by, many more children with special needs have been able to be involved in education. <BR /> <BR />Some children, such as those who go to Clifton School, for instance, are at the high end of special needs dependency. When we look back many years, some of those children, sadly, would not even survive to the age they are today. We should all be thankful for that progress.”
“There is a divergence between schools that apply for the SEP and those that apply for a major capital new build. As such, it is one of the two routes that schools can take. The minor works necessary in the school will have already been assessed as part of the SEP application. If, for instance, minor works — I mentioned a couple of those already — are undertaken at the school, that will in no way disadvantage the school as regards the school enhancement programme at present. It will be judged according to where it is on the list. <BR /> <BR />I am aware that the Member has been assiduous in pressing the issue, and I hope to be able to visit Clifton School in the near future. I am sure that they will all look forward to that.”
“Those prioritised lists will remain live until May 2020, and there is, therefore, the potential for a further, final announcement before the list closes. <BR /> <BR />The Education Authority will continue to undertake statutory capital works at the school through the minor works programme, so it is not simply an issue of whether it gets SEP funding. To alleviate the immediate accommodation pressure, the EA recently converted an unused home economics classroom into a general classroom. The EA will also carry out a survey and inventory of the existing school meals accommodation to inform an assessment for a potential refurbishment of that area.”
“I thank the Member for his question. He and other Members have been very assiduous in pushing on a number of the schools that will be mentioned today. <BR /> <BR />The Education Authority submitted an application under the second call to the school enhancement programme on behalf of Clifton School. It was one of the schools that passed what is called the gateway check, so it is eligible. At that stage, 165 SEP applications had been made, across the board. To date, the school has not been announced to advance in planning; however, it remains on the prioritised special schools list. I should highlight that the SEP schools list was broken down into three categories: mainstream primary schools; post-primary schools; and special educational needs schools.”
“<BR /> <BR />Unless something falls out of the sky that limits opportunity, I commit that, if I am in post and make an announcement about a capital build, I will make sure that it happens. The only issue will be the timing. I will not give false hope to particular schools. It is important that schools that are involved in capital builds, whether major capital works, SEP or specific minor works, can move forward with confidence, not uncertainty.”
“First, all schools, irrespective of the sector that they belong to and wherever the pupils are driven from, need to treated equally and given a fair opportunity. As I indicated, cases that are driven by area planning and the area-planning solution need to be given a level of prioritisation as we move ahead. <BR /> <BR />On the budget, there is, as I said, a slightly blank position, as we do not know what next year's budget will be. However, where there is some flexibility, unlike with some of the pressures that have been identified in the resource budget, there is an opportunity. For instance, if an announcement was made about a particular school today, it may be some years down the line before bricks and mortar are put on-site. There is a bit of flexibility about exactly when things happen and in fitting them around the budget.”