Peter Weir
Strangford · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Funding was secured for that scheme, and we have been able to take further steps on it. As highlighted by my colleague Diane Dodds, we have seen my successor, the current Minister, be able to implement it at the beginning of September 2021 and funding be made available for it.”
“One of the great fears — I saw it particularly, as Education Minister, from the point of view of children and the domestic setting between partners — was what was going to happen in families when the doors closed and the locks went on. What was happening behind closed doors?”
“There is another significant element of the Bill. I have spoken about it in the Chamber on a couple of occasions. There is always a slight danger that we, as legislators, see legislation as being the end of a process and think that we can pack it away, put it on the shelf and forget about the problem because it has been solved.”
“I welcome the passage of the Bill's Final Stage and commend all the campaigners who have pressed so hard for it and the Bill sponsor. For Pat Catney, hearing some of the tributes must be like hearing eulogies at your funeral, without having to go through the indignity of dying, which is always a double advantage.”
“As highlighted by a number of Members, the impact of period poverty, though not confined to it, has been particularly acute in young women's education. We know that the impact can lead to the missing of education and constraints within education, and that it does so in a disproportionate way.”
“I support the Bill's Final Stage, and I commend the Bill's sponsor for introducing it. I thank the Minister and the Department for the positive attitude that they have taken towards it.”
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“My officials will engage in work to consider the current provision, particularly for post-primary schools, with ITE providers and sectoral representatives. That work will scope what longer-term ITE provision is needed — clearly, even if there is agreement today on something, it will take effect only four or five years down the line — and how those teachers receive the best training to support them in delivering immersion education in the Irish-medium sector. <BR /> <BR />My officials continue to work on accessing substitute teachers. There have been opportunities, at times, to take teachers with expertise from outside the sector and provide language training for them and to apply some flexibility. <BR /> <BR />The pandemic has exposed something important.”
“As regards workforce planning, we are looking at the issue of qualified teachers, and there is, obviously, a particular issue at post-primary level. I am aware of the issues about the availability of suitably qualified teachers. Last December, I asked officials to allow additional flexibility for Irish-medium schools, so that they could utilise alternative staff, for instance, under the Engage programme. As we move ahead this year, the aim is to allow that, if they are unable to secure qualified teachers. <BR /> <BR />I raised that issue with my ministerial colleague at the Department for the Economy in relation to initial teacher education (ITE). As the Member is aware, there is an interface between Education and Economy on that.”
“Recognising the specific needs of the sector, I included a separate work stream for Irish-medium education. Much valuable work has come out of that work stream. <BR /> <BR />I am also aware of thee loss of language learning due to the pandemic and the shortage of substitute teachers. My officials continue to work with relevant partner bodies to seek opportunities to mitigate and resolve such concerns.”
“That includes annual funding to Comhairle na Gaelscolaíochta (CnaG), which acts as a valuable advocate for the sector, specific support to Irish-medium units, funding to the Education Authority and the Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment (CCEA), and early years funding to Altram, which has developed a range of pre-school resources aimed at helping immersion learning. My Department also requires its arm’s-length bodies to support the delivery of the statutory duty and to report back on actions taken during the business year. A shared education and sectoral support team has been established in the Education Authority and works with CnaG to support schools. At the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, I set up the continuity of learning programme, with a focus on supporting pupil learning.”
“I thank the Member for her question. In delivering the statutory duty on my Department to encourage and facilitate the development of Irish-medium education, a range of actions, funding support and policy adaptations are undertaken. My Department seeks to respond positively to parental demand for Irish-medium provision and works to meet the needs of the sector, for example in considering home-to-school transport requirements and schools' requests for temporary variations to their approved numbers. All policy areas across the Department consider whether any policy adaptation could support the delivery of that statutory duty. <BR /> <BR />Additionally, a range of bespoke, sector-specific investment is provided to support the development of Irish-medium education.”
“Therefore, particularly in relation to September 2021, decisions will be taken fairly swiftly to try to ensure that the school estate that we have is compatible with the needs and pressures. I anticipate that the decisions will be taken fairly shortly. Given the ongoing pressures and the need, looked at from the perspective of longer-term capital turnaround, if the conclusion were reached that, for example, the Cotton site was not needed for September 2021, that does not mean that it is ruled out for that purpose for all time. It may well be that there is a pressure in 2022 that needs to be met. That will be factored in. Hopefully, there will be a bit more clarity around that fairly soon.”
“From that point of view, it will be dependent on an exercise currently going on because of some of the additional pressures that there will be on SEN in September 2021. Those cannot be met simply by putting more children in classes, in part because there will be a restriction, particularly with SEN in special schools, on how many can be accommodated in a class. There is probably less elasticity, shall we say, than there is in a mainstream setting. <BR /> <BR />There is a strategic discussion to be had, if additional physical resources and additional sites are needed, on whether that will be met in the short term by using sites that are vacant at present and to what extent, for example, additional mobile classrooms can be used in some settings. It will be part of an overall strategic decision.”
“Only when there is no real interest from those areas will there be an examination of any commercial disposal for whatever purposes.”
“I will get the specific and detailed information for the Member and write to her on that. <BR /> <BR />On the overall issue, Priory is one of the projects that have been green-lighted for Fresh Start money. Therefore, there will be a change of location that, hopefully, can allow Priory to further grow and flourish. It will require that relocation side of things. I will check the details of the timing. As indicated, the general position, which falls under the remit of the EA, is initial retention and then examination if the site is to be disposed of in any way. The consistent pecking order is that, where there is an expression of interest that is doable and has a direct educational impact, that will always come as first priority. Any sort of government institution or a situation involving a social enterprise would come next.”
“Also, there is a yearly trend of increasing numbers of children and young people with more complex special educational needs. For instance, this year there has been a 5% increase on last year. My officials are working with the EA through a number of fora to undertake a full assessment of capacity and need with the special school estate and of specialist provision in mainstream education. <BR /> <BR />On any physical destruction of the building, we will have to make sure that everything is fit for purpose. I will raise that with officials to see what actions are being taken to secure the site to make sure that, as far as possible, it is not subject to any level of vandalism as we move ahead. That is always a risk with any vacant sites.”
“I will take the first point first. A significant number of additional places are required in special schools for September 2021 for children and young people with statements of special educational need. We are in the virtuous situation where that is also the case with specialist provision in mainstream schools. Down the years, we have seen such an expansion because of additional statementing and because children who, going back 10, 20 or 30 years, would not have been in a position to go to a school are much more able to do so. As I said, that has arisen also from the EA clearing a substantial backlog of statutory assessments. There was a period when there were extremely long waiting lists, and those have been largely got down.”
“When an EA property becomes vacant, it may be put to alternative use, retained for a future educational use or disposed of in line with current guidance from Land and Property Services (LPS). It is normally where disposal takes place that there is a sort of a pecking order where there is an option to see, first, whether there is any other educational benefit for which the site can be used. It would then be offered either to a social enterprise, community group or other Department. Finally, if there were no interest, it would be offered to a commercial setting. <BR /> <BR />Specifically, the former Cotton Primary School near Newtownards is being retained by the Education Authority for potential use by children and young people's services for special educational purposes. It is under consideration for additional special school provision.”
“In education, there was an old definition of the term "urban" covering purely Belfast and Londonderry, and that has now been extended to deal with some of the anomalies, which are settings where there are large areas of population. Even with that, whatever way you count it — you should count this on a rural basis — unfortunately, St Mary's, Brollagh simply was not meeting the criteria on a range of subjects.”
“<BR /> <BR />Even if we take those figures, the numbers attending St Mary's, Brollagh — it is a scattered rural community, so there was no vast, untapped pool of children — which is a post-primary school in a rural setting had, for a number of years, been less than two thirds of the minimum for a primary school in a rural setting. I think that that really becomes unsustainable. Rural need is one of the factors that are taken into account, and I appreciate that there is probably a bit more fluidity in an urban setting. Last year, an amendment, largely speaking, was made to the definition of the terms "rural" and "urban".”
“In post-primary education, there are, principally, two objectives for the numbers: an intake of 100 and an overall cadre of 500. There is also the impact that it has on the entitlement framework, which is about the level of choice. Specifically in the primary sector, there is much more of a clear differentiation, meaning that, for a primary school in what is counted as an urban setting, 140 is the recommended minimum threshold number; in a primary school in a rural area, it is 105. There is perhaps that more direct relationship because, particularly for primary schools, there is an expectation that having to travel for long distances is more problematic for very young children than it is for those at post-primary level.”
“<BR /> <BR />A range of options for St Mary's, Brollagh has been on the agenda for, I suspect, most of the last decade. I remember that the Member's party colleague and predecessor in Fermanagh and South Tyrone, Richie McPhillips, had a range of suggestions that were all explored. However, there comes a point at which, to provide education to young people, difficult decisions have to be made based on sustainability. I entirely understand that there will be concern in any school when potential closure is mooted.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Let us put this in context: not only were the pupils at Brollagh not able to access, by a long way, the full range of topics — I think that it was sitting at 11 or 12 subjects — but, as indicated, 60% of pupils at that level had to move to other schools for at least part of the week. When the decision was taken on St Mary's, Brollagh, I think that there were 67 pupils at the post-primary school. The normal threshold for a post-primary school — that is regarded as a general rule of thumb for sustainability — is that there should be 500 pupils in years 8 to 12. I appreciate that some schools have a bit below that. However, catering for a little bit over 10% of what should be the minimum threshold is simply not sustainable.”
“I appreciate that it is painful when any school closes, but we need to ensure that the opportunities for children in Brollagh are the same as those provided to children elsewhere. If that can be provided to some pupils by moving to a location in the Republic of Ireland, I am sure that that will be looked at, as happens on other occasions.”
“We are happy to look into how that will help any individual pupil. From that point of view, there will be pupils living in border areas who may be seeking education in either direction: in the Republic of Ireland if they live in Northern Ireland, and vice versa. We are happy to see what can be done to facilitate that. <BR /> <BR />This is ultimately about trying to ensure that there is a choice for pupils. The number of subjects that St Mary's, Brollagh could offer was well below what the entitlement framework suggests. Last year, 60% of pupils in years 11 and 12, which are examination years, had to travel to at least one other school at some stage during the week to avail themselves of lessons.”
“CCMS acknowledged, in the screening of the proposal, the potential impact of closing St Mary's, Brollagh, on the local rural area. Although it is recognised that the closure of any school is upsetting for a community, difficult decisions have to be made, and they have to be made in the best interests of the children, rather than necessarily the institution. The decision allows those pupils to have access to the broad and balanced curriculum that is afforded to other post-primary pupils across Northern Ireland.”
“The Council for Catholic Maintained Schools (CCMS), which is the managing authority, has confirmed that due regard was given to the Rural Needs Act 2016 and that details of that were included in the equality and human rights screening of DP 584 and in a separate rural needs impact assessment. The rural needs impact assessment states that the intention of the proposal is to advance the aspirations, aims and objectives of the sustainable schools policy and:”
“I thank the Member for her question. In making my decision on development proposal (DP) 584, I was mindful of all the duties placed on me and of the need to consider all the evidence presented. In many ways, from a ministerial and departmental viewpoint, when it comes to DPs, we are effectively the end point of the process. I can make decisions only on proposals that are brought forward by the school planning and managing authorities. <BR /> <BR />It is clear to me that, on a number of grounds, St Mary's High School in Brollagh, despite the great work of many people, is unsustainable and that its discontinuation will be in the best interests of pupils.”
“The broader review of the common funding formula is ongoing. We need to make sure that the funding is always distributed in the most advantageous ways possible. I have striven to ensure that schools have a higher proportion of the budget and that the aggregated schools budget is protected. We need to ensure that the funding formula, whatever it is, is as fair as possible to schools. In my experience, with any change to funding, those who will gain an advantage from it are quite happy and those who will see a reduced level of funding and are at a disadvantage are not. All factors have to be taken into account, and, from that point of view, the broader review of the common funding formula is about trying to make sure that we have as fair a distribution as is possible.”
“We encourage everyone to apply. It is about proportionality. I will give a headline today: we will be releasing the latest direct figures on 29 April. As the Member indicated, the proportion of school meals taken last year was around 80% or 81%. When we talk about school meals being taken, figures are recorded on a day-to-day basis, and we have to realise that, at any one time, some pupils will be off. People are therefore encouraged to take up their entitlement, but, ultimately, we cannot force them to do so. I encourage anyone who is eligible to take up that entitlement, however.”
“Where we find directions that can be made, they are not, strictly speaking, on the free school meal side of things. Rather, they flow from that. <BR /> <BR />As I said, we have a high level of advantage, because we have worked with the EA and others to identify the bank account of any eligible family. We have also spoken to the Home Office to make arrangements for refugee children. We therefore have a fairly watertight and complete list. Leaving aside the arguments elsewhere, in England, Scotland or Wales, because free school meals are administered there through a range of local authorities, there are not the opportunities to identify those who are eligible. We need to take advantage of the fact that names are available here through the payment system that the Education Authority established.”
“I am entirely open to the avenue in which that can take place. I am supportive of that being extended into the future and made permanent. As I indicated, about 100,000 children are entitled to free school meals at the moment. There is a concern that that number will expand as we move beyond the pandemic, people go back to work and furlough ends, because there may well be further redundancies. It is important that children are provided for during that period. In many ways, the issue has been forced into a stronger conclusion because of COVID; there are occasionally useful spin-offs in that regard. It has focused minds. As such, we need to provide a longer-term solution. That will probably mean a change in legislation, because, strictly speaking, a methodology is used for those payments at present.”
“That provides a scenario for the next year or so, but, as part of that, there will be discussions about the anti-poverty strategy. The direct lead on holiday hunger and across the board when it comes to child poverty lies with the Department for Communities. We are working on a cross-jurisdictional basis, particularly with the Department for Communities, to try to scope out the actions that could be taken beyond 2022 so that there is a permanent solution to the issue.”
“As the Member will be aware, I put a proposal to the Executive. We reacted fairly quickly to the issue of holiday hunger when it hit during the pandemic. One of the advantages that we have in Northern Ireland compared with other jurisdictions that operate largely through local government districts is that single payments can be made. Initially, about 95% or more of the pupils who were entitled were in the one set of information. We worked to complete that. A proposal was then put to the Executive from a holiday hunger point of view to extend that to the periods in which schools were not in place: summer, Christmas, Easter and the half-term holidays. Those payments will continue to be made until the end of the Assembly term. Northern Ireland was the first jurisdiction across the UK to do that. I take on board what the Member said.”
“I thank the Member for his question. My Department does not hold information on pupils who are eligible for free school meals. However, it holds information on pupils who are entitled to free school meals — it is a slight and subtle difference — having applied though the Education Authority's (EA) free school meal entitlement process. That is collected annually via the school census. In 2016-17, 102,996 pupils were entitled to free school meals. In 2017-18, 101,061 pupils were entitled to free school meals. In 2018-19, 99,893 pupils were entitled to free school meals. In 2019-2020, 97,350 pupils were entitled to free school meals. Finally, in 2020-21, which is the most recent complete set of data, 98,239 pupils were entitled to free school meals.”
“<BR /> <BR />There is a saying in some parts of the world that you are never truly dead until all those whose lives you have touched have also died. With his lasting legacy — the ongoing legacy — particularly amongst our young people, the Duke of Edinburgh will be with us for many decades to come.”
“The two hours of that ceremony, with the duke being represented by the Earl of Wessex, gave a small snapshot of the contribution that the Duke of Edinburgh's Award scheme was making. That snapshot was of a single year: multiply that by the generations who have done it; multiply that by the fact that this was simply the region of Northern Ireland; multiply it throughout the whole of the United Kingdom; and, indeed, multiply it throughout the world, where 130 countries have been involved with the scheme. In Northern Ireland alone, in the last full year, over 3,000 young people received awards and over 6,000 started a course. Over the last seven years, around 16,000 young people have received awards in Northern Ireland. Throughout the UK, that figure is 6·7 million, and there are many more spread across the world.”
“Mention has been made of his contribution to the environment, industry, technology and wildlife, but it will be most keenly felt in the contribution that he made to our young people through the Duke of Edinburgh's Award scheme, now 65 years old. Its four elements of volunteering, physical contribution, skills and expedition — or, as the Duke of Edinburgh himself put it with typical wit and bluntness, a "do-it-yourself growing-up kit" — have touched the lives of so many throughout the generations. <BR /> <BR />Five years ago, I was privileged to go to an event in Ballyclare High School that celebrated the sixtieth anniversary of the Duke of Edinburgh's Award scheme.”
“<BR /> <BR />I had the opportunity and the great privilege of meeting him in 2002 when he came to meet Assembly Members at Stormont. On that occasion, amongst countless others over a period of seven decades, he was there to give support to his wife, the Queen. Today, therefore, we see a void in the life of the nation, but particularly a void in the life of the royal family and particularly the Queen. To lose her rock after 73 years — our hearts must go out to the Queen and, indeed, to Prince Philip's children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. <BR /> <BR />He has not simply left a void; he has left a lasting legacy.”
“I start where the previous Member ended, in passing on the condolences and sympathies of my constituents in Strangford, and my own, to Her Majesty The Queen and the royal family on their sad loss. <BR /> <BR />We meet rightly today to pay tribute to a great man. Someone who, throughout his 99 years, did not simply talk the talk but was prepared to walk the walk. There will be some, not in the Chamber today, who will be keen to lecture the rest of us on fascism, for example, but do little of practical benefit otherwise. We should remember that in his early life, before he married the Queen, the Duke of Edinburgh was actually on the front line of fighting fascism directly, in the Second World War. He was somebody who, truly, walked the walk.”
“That would be considered on application by schools that meet certain criteria and can reflect what is in the schools in practice. Those will be brought forward fairly soon and can give, if you like, permanent solutions without having to go through the rigours of a full development proposal, which can take an amount of time. The other advantage is that that will hopefully unclog the system a little bit and allow major systemic actions to be taken where they are needed. <BR /> <BR />I appreciate that my time is up. I thank all those who contributed to the debate.”
“That has not necessarily been helped by the situation with COVID, but, hopefully, we are back on track a little bit. There are two solutions to that process in addition to the longer-term solutions. Mention has been made of temporary variations. The numbers in the cohort that is transferring to post-primary this September throughout Northern Ireland will be higher than they have been previously, so temporary variations can proactively deal with some of those things. However, I am also keen to formulate a system that operates, if you like, between the two pillars of temporary variations and area planning. Through area planning, I will bring forward a process of what is, I suppose, termed rightsizing or normalisation, which will allow levels of either uplift or reduction.”
“One of the frustrations that we all have is that a certain budget is available for capital builds and that, if that budget were to suddenly double overnight, it could be spent. The aim is to have a new direct call for capital builds later this year to which all schools can apply. I think that the fabric of the schools will be a key determinant when evaluating that. <BR /> <BR />With regard to special educational needs, there is a need to ensure that we have something that is fit for purpose, particularly for this September. We are also trialling additional provision in mainstream schools, and, indeed, I think that a consultation to take that forward is due to be completed in April. <BR /> <BR />A number of Members also expressed concerns about the slowness of the area planning process. I share those concerns.”
“Unfortunately, I am a little bit tight for time. <BR /> <BR />Specifically, there have been a number of ongoing community conversations on integrated post-primary provision. Obviously, it will be up to the Northern Ireland Council for Integrated Education (NICIE) to bring forward proposals directly, whether they are for the transformation of a school or to look in a wider context at a new location for a school that may or may not be within the boundaries of South Belfast. Again, that will come forward directly from NICIE. I know that work is ongoing on Breda Academy as well. <BR /> <BR />Mention has been made of capital builds, and I visited St Joseph's Primary School and a number of the other schools that are involved in those builds. It is undoubtedly the case that there is wide-ranging desire and need for new capital builds.”
“On a few of the issues that Members raised, there are, I suppose, a number of voluntary grammars, controlled schools and integrated schools for which potential development proposals are either being considered or are en route. Perhaps, in keeping with trying to provide solutions that are much more geographically based, I appreciate the point that the Member for Strangford made that area planning should not be particularly confined to specific geographic boundaries, and I think that some of those solutions look across the greater Belfast area.”
“We know that work is going on between Education and communities. I think that we in Northern Ireland can be rightly proud of the fact that, while in other parts of the UK there was a backwards and forwards with Marcus Rashford and others, Northern Ireland was the first part of the UK to accept that there would be payments for free school meals all year round and not simply when children are in school. In many ways, we were the brand leader on that, and I think that that stands to the credit of the Executive as a whole.”
“That is why there are two elements to it. There is the direct mental health and well-being framework. What we are trying to do with that — we had a number of young ambassadors at the launch — is that, as much as possible, the co-design, as we move ahead, will be with young people, so that we reach a situation in which that input is there. As we trial things, that mainstream, baseline budget will be there, but, in addition, specific funding is being sought — I hope we will be successful in seeking it — for direct COVID recovery. There are two parts to that, and the Member is correct in relation to that. <BR /> <BR />Holiday hunger has been mentioned, and I appreciate that it goes beyond the boundaries of South Belfast.”
“Significantly, it is not just the response to the COVID situation but a response to a long-standing issue. Recently, the Health Minister, the mental health champion and I launched the Executive's mental health and well-being framework with a mainstream budget of a least £6·5 million.”
“All 11 mainstream schools have sixth-form provision, which puts South Belfast in a unique position compared with most other constituencies. Additionally — this can be overlooked — the five special schools in South Belfast have been mentioned. Given the fact that there are 39 special schools in Northern Ireland, there is a disproportionately high number of special schools in South Belfast. <BR /> <BR />The debate touched on a number of aspects, and Deirdre Hargey mentioned mental health. There is a major concern about the tsunami of mental health issues that will happen post COVID. None of us can make a full judgement call on where that will be. The Member will be aware that, as part of the process of COVID recovery, I have put in bids for additional mental health funding for next year.”
“The projected growth in the number of young people in Northern Ireland as a whole is about 2·7% , but it is nearly double that in South Belfast, at 4·8%. South Belfast, probably more than anywhere else, has a flow of school places in and out of the constituency. It is to the credit of the schools in South Belfast, as that movement creates challenges and difficulties. <BR /> <BR />I appreciate the point made by Kellie Armstrong that while, strictly speaking, Lagan College is just inside the boundaries of Strangford, it mainly draws its students from South Belfast. If we count Lagan College as part of the overall South Belfast picture, there are 11,060 post-primary places in total, 10,938 of which are filled. It is noticeable that, of the 11 post-primary schools referred to, five are oversubscribed at first preference.”
“Legally, the restriction is that they have to come from the managing authorities of those schools, but the Department and, I suppose, myself ultimately have to give a legal verdict on any development proposals. That may restrict some of the remarks that I will be able to make on that. <BR /> <BR />Members are right to highlight the diversity in the constituency and its cosmopolitan feel. While I cannot claim to have gone to school or been raised in South Belfast, as some Members can, my parents are both from South Belfast, so I am well aware of the area. On the growth of the area, there is a higher than average percentage of newcomer children in South Belfast. There is a tendency for people to see new housing as always leading to a growth in population, whereas it can sometimes lead to a lower housing density.”
“OK. Thank you. <BR /> <BR />It is great to have the debate. It is a testament to the perseverance of the Member. I think that this is third time lucky. We have had a few snags. I thank all those who contributed to the debate. I suspect that the one area where there was probably a little bit of divergence across the Chamber was on the issue of post-primary transfer and selection, but everything has been said in a very good-natured manner today. <BR /> <BR />There is one slight restriction that I will have when responding to some of the points, but I will try to deal with it generally. Members will be aware, even in terms of a range of the sectors, that a number of the issues will touch on development proposals as we move ahead.”
“A great musical experience is one of the Manic Street Preachers' most celebrated tracks, 'If You Tolerate This, Your Children Will Be Next'. So it is, perhaps, appropriate that the Member makes reference to the Manic Street Preachers best-of in the debate.”
“What is a more difficult issue is the mental health and well-being of our young people, and that is why we need to see children back as soon as possible. I saw that at first hand amongst the very young children at Springfield during the week. Simply, the biggest single thing for, in particular, those P3s was seeing some of their friends who they had not seen during the lockdown and having that opportunity for interaction. The long-term damage that has already been done to mental health and well-being concerns me, so, for a range of reasons, including physical health, the sooner that we can get back to a situation where all children are directly in school, the better.”
“Quite often, the focus is on academic catch-up, and there is no doubt that, despite the brilliant work that has been done by schools, teachers, parents and students themselves on remote learning, it is, at best, a secondary substitute for face-to-face teaching. To some extent, it is easier to put investment into achieving academic catch-up.”
“I have always made it clear that I want to see children in school, getting face-to-face teaching. I want that as soon as is practical, given the public constraints.”