Peter Weir
Strangford · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Funding was secured for that scheme, and we have been able to take further steps on it. As highlighted by my colleague Diane Dodds, we have seen my successor, the current Minister, be able to implement it at the beginning of September 2021 and funding be made available for it.”
“One of the great fears — I saw it particularly, as Education Minister, from the point of view of children and the domestic setting between partners — was what was going to happen in families when the doors closed and the locks went on. What was happening behind closed doors?”
“There is another significant element of the Bill. I have spoken about it in the Chamber on a couple of occasions. There is always a slight danger that we, as legislators, see legislation as being the end of a process and think that we can pack it away, put it on the shelf and forget about the problem because it has been solved.”
“I welcome the passage of the Bill's Final Stage and commend all the campaigners who have pressed so hard for it and the Bill sponsor. For Pat Catney, hearing some of the tributes must be like hearing eulogies at your funeral, without having to go through the indignity of dying, which is always a double advantage.”
“As highlighted by a number of Members, the impact of period poverty, though not confined to it, has been particularly acute in young women's education. We know that the impact can lead to the missing of education and constraints within education, and that it does so in a disproportionate way.”
“I support the Bill's Final Stage, and I commend the Bill's sponsor for introducing it. I thank the Minister and the Department for the positive attitude that they have taken towards it.”
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“I am always keen to visit schools and will be happy to go to Portadown College, if the Member sends me an invitation. It is important to see the issues at first hand. To some extent, opportunities to go to schools have been greatly reduced by the COVID restrictions. As restrictions ease, there will, hopefully, be greater opportunities. I will be happy to see at first hand the issues at Portadown. There is no lack of willingness to provide support for schools. Obviously, the one constraint will be available budget, and therefore any capital call will tend to be a competitive process, as it is on any occasion.”
“That means that, when a new capital build call is made, the potential rivals to Portadown and others for the money will have been removed, and they will be able to bid. <BR /> <BR />There was an expectation, in 2006, that capital finance would go up and up and up, but, unfortunately, we had the crash, and a lot of promises that had been made to schools had to be withdrawn. I assure the Member that, from my point of view, if Portadown, Holywood or wherever is announced on a capital list, it will happen.”
“At present, there are no direct plans for that. Primary and post-primary schools are on separate lists when assessments for capital builds are carried out. I assure the Member and the Member who asked the previous question that there will not be direct competition between Holywood Primary School and Portadown College. <BR /> <BR />In the previous round, Portadown College was ranked at, I think, 15 among post-primary schools. At that stage, a high level of assessment was given on the basis of where mergers were taking place, and that disadvantaged schools that were not involved in a merger. One of the advantages of the previous occasion is that, as a result of that announcement, half a dozen schools were taken off the list.”
“When the streams are announced, there is nothing to stop any school applying for either or both of them, but, obviously, it can benefit from only one of them at a time.”
“We look at any opportunities to draw in additional money. If it is a new build, it is, by definition, capital money. However, as I indicated, there are sometimes different strands of capital money. We operate major new builds. We also look at the school enhancement programme and minor works. Apart from the directly baselined money, as was indicated earlier, we can also bid for RRI money. Schools can apply in various ways. Major capital builds for primary schools tend to be a much longer and expensive process. The Member will know that a site search, for instance, will need to be done, as with Bangor Central Integrated Primary School, so it will be a longer process. The school enhancement programme can spend up to £4 million within that.”
“I thank the Member for the question. I have been at Holywood Primary. There is nothing proposed for Holywood Primary currently. It was not successful in any of the previous calls. On the need for new build, the aim is that, later this year, there will be a fresh call for major capital works. Those circumstances require, first, the managing authority to agree that Holywood or, indeed, any other school goes forward. Those schools are then evaluated and, as part of that, ranked according to the level of support that is required. There will be that opportunity for Holywood and others to apply. I also hope that, within the next year, there will be a further call for the school enhancement programme, which, particularly for primary schools, is often the best route.”
“That was like the old GCSE or A level question with the word "Discuss" at the end. I hope that the Executive will be able to unite around positions where we all value education and the role of our young people. While the focus has been on schools, I am acutely aware of the importance of a phased return of, for example, generic Youth Service provision. The very rapid return of child-centred activities like Sure Start, which concentrate on areas where there is disadvantage, will be critical as well. I hope that the Executive, in considering all those things at our discussion tomorrow, will make our young people a priority.”
“From the point of view of the academic side, where families are at and the mental health and well-being of young people, it is critical that we return to face-to-face teaching as soon as is practicably possible.”
“There will be wider discussion in the Executive tomorrow. I would have preferred it if decisions could have been made earlier, but we are where we are. Last week, we were able to agree that there would be no interruption to the education of P1 to P3 pupils and those of preschool age. That was an important step forward, but we will reach something closer to normality only when we have all students back, particularly those at primary level. I can understand that, when those at primary level see a younger sibling perhaps heading into school, they are confused as to why they are not. It is important that we bring a level of certainty tomorrow. I will certainly push for that return as soon as possible, in line with whatever public health mitigations need to be put in place.”
“Schools should be in a position to step up to the mark on these crucial issues. We all have to realise, particularly from a Justice point of view, that we are in a fast-moving environment. Issues that seem tangential at the moment may become central in one or two years' time. There has to be flexibility to ensure that we create as safe an environment as possible for everyone.”
“The Northern Ireland curriculum is not prescriptive, which can have advantages by providing flexibility, agility and ability to take on orders. As part of the meeting, we agreed for my officials and the Department of Justice officials to work together on that and other issues, such as consent, which is critical to education on that front. Another important issue among others is trying to break cycles of abuse, particularly domestic abuse, because we know that one of the added problems is that those who have experienced abuse as a young child have a greater propensity to be involved with abuse at a later age. It is important that that is addressed. <BR /> <BR />Under the current legislative position, imposing direct curriculum changes on any subject would require a change in primary legislation.”
“We had a productive meeting, and our two Departments will continue to work together to ensure that there is full implementation of the Gillen recommendations.”
“We are working closely on that issue and met on Thursday specifically to discuss it. I join the Member in condemning and expressing horror at what appears to be the brutal murder of Sarah Everard. It is a clear sign of the terrible criminal action to which too many women have been subjected. We all stand in solidarity on that issue. <BR /> <BR />There are a number of aspects of the Gillen report that are related and where there is an interconnection between education and justice. Last Thursday, the Justice Minister and I met to discuss the implementation of those issues. That relates to what is taught in the classroom and to issues in the iMatter programme, what provision can be made for the CCEA's RSE Hub and work on ongoing teacher training on the issue.”
“There are two aspects to that, and obviously the direct engagement is with CCEA through Pearson. Pearson is the only group that directly offers BTECs, and, as it is an awarding organisation, we have no means of directly compelling it to do things. It could withdraw entirely from the Northern Ireland market, and we want to make sure that there are no particular barriers. <BR /> <BR />It is not helpful when there is a narrowing of choice, but there are awarding organisations that also provide alternative vocational qualifications. CCEA is working with them and will step up to the mark to provide qualifications. The problem is that we are very much in the one boat with Pearson when it comes to BTEC.”
“Pearson's decision has been taken in the context of a significant change to all level 3 BTECs this year. Pearson 2010 BTECs are being withdrawn fully across the UK in September 2021, and the new style 2016 BTECs will be the only BTECs available to any school, be it in the medium of English or Irish. The new-style BTECs introduce external assessment units, making them more like A levels in their assessment arrangements. <BR /> <BR />CCEA provides a range of applied A levels that are available in the medium of Irish. A total of 13 applied A levels are offered by CCEA. Other vocational qualification providers may wish to make their qualifications available in Irish, and CCEA has contacted other providers to explore that option. CCEA will continue to explore what further actions might be possible to address the matter.”
“Currently, BTEC qualifications through the medium of Irish are facilitated by a contractual arrangement between the Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment (CCEA) and the awarding organisation, Pearson. Towards the end of 2019, the Pearson awarding organisation had given notice of its intention to end that agreement and no longer provide the qualifications. While CCEA continued its discussions with Pearson about the decision, the school that was offering those BTECs was advised to consider and identify alternative qualifications. Unfortunately, in the past couple of weeks, Pearson has confirmed its intention to withdraw from the arrangement, withdrawing level 3 qualifications in September 2021 and level 2 qualifications in September 2022.”
“Secondly, it has to be a complete new build, so SEP was effectively knocked out of the picture. Also, schools that, for instance, did not exactly fit with integrated status but had a high level of mixing — there is a small number of "super-mixed" schools, as they are called — were also excluded. At that stage, there was a bar on spend between years. That was successfully negotiated on by way of the confidence-and-supply arrangement, and it has been continued. There is some progression. That means that there will be peaks and troughs in the funding, but we are confident that the overall £500 million will be absorbed in the 10-year period.”
“We are confident that the full amount will ultimately be spent, and we will write to the Member on some of the detail. As she will be aware, and I think that this was tackled in the last mandate, one of the issues historically with the Fresh Start money was that it was largely agreed at prime ministerial level, without Treasury really wanting a penny to be spent. That meant that there were discussions with Her Majesty's Government about the detail, and a range of conditions was put in that had to be considered by my predecessor and me and will, indeed, have to be considered by my successor. First, everything has to be a completely new project, so, for example, Parkhall Integrated College, which had been announced at that stage, could not avail itself of Fresh Start money.”
“Certainly, for any contract, we comply with the position across the Executive as a whole. There is no particular issue with that. As for the detail of what is in a contract, I am probably not in a position to comment directly on that. We want to ensure that, across the Executive, we produce a consistent approach to that.”
“I thank the Member for her question. Ardnashee School in the Foyle constituency was announced under a major capital works call and is in planning, with an approved business case of £33·92 million. The school is due on site this summer. As well as the major capital works, three projects are progressing under the second call to the school enhancement programme (SEP2). Those projects are Chapel Road Primary School, Greenhaw Primary School and Holy Child Primary School. Each of those projects will see an investment of up to £4 million to improve the schools. In addition to that, there are four voluntary Youth Service schemes directly through the schools that received capital funding of £4·5 million under the two youth calls that have been made.”
“Obviously, I am always keen to take lectures on the basis of hindsight from the Member opposite.”
“With respect, we did not have those huge impacts. The position was very similar to what happened elsewhere. I make no apology for trying to ensure that we got the maximum number of pupils in. <BR /> <BR />The reality is that there is flexibility on class sizes, as has been said, for all schools, and some schools have been able to use the opportunity, where they can split classes and use extra space. The principal constraint is that, from a teaching point of view, if we simply disperse large numbers of children across the piece, there will be an issue with the number of available teachers. It is simply not an effective way of teaching. There will be barriers because of the volume of substitute teachers. A number of schools, particularly at primary level, are having difficulty getting substitute teachers, so there are restrictions on that.”
“The law in that circumstance requires that class sizes for the youngest children be kept to a maximum of 30. Flexibility for post-primary class sizes tends to be for subjects such as science, art and design, and PE. That level of flexibility has been in place unchanged since 2004 for class sizes that are in excess of 20 pupils, up to a maximum of 26. That also applies for years 8 to 10 and years 11 and 12 for practical subjects such as home economics, music, and design and technology. Some of that can mean an opportunity for schools to ensure that they are able to use their budgets as effectively as possible. There is a level of flexibility, but the health and safety of pupils remains paramount. Any school's board of governors must be content that any practical arrangements reflect that.”
“I was delighted to be at Springfield during the week. I value the professionalism of the staff, but the joy of the returning pupils showed the direct benefits of face-to-face teaching. I congratulate the school on the success that it has had. <BR /> <BR />Speaking directly about the COVID situation, I will say that class sizes have to be set in line with health and safety requirements. In post-primary schools, necessary assessments are carried out to allow flexibility of class sizes for practical subjects. Strictly speaking, while there are limits placed on what is allowed for the early years of primary school, there is more flexibility with the limits for P5 to P7. <BR /> <BR />We know that, particularly in years 1 to 4, smaller class sizes can have a positive impact on outcomes.”
“— have dreamt of the prospect of Portakabins. Some of us, however, take a slightly old-fashioned attitude to how we see them. The modern mobile classrooms that are provided tend to be of a very high quality. However, the aim, as far as is possible, is to move towards having permanent structures. <BR /> <BR />In a more general sense, if there is capacity in the industry to deliver it and there is finance, there is always at least twice as much that could be done on capital builds. As with anything else, in education it is about choosing between good projects rather than between good and bad projects.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Member is right to say that, where we can, moving from Portakabins to more permanent structures is better. The only caveat that I will add is that, as anybody who has been around schools will know, Portakabins now are light years away from what they were when the Member opposite and I were at school.”
“With COVID, it is likely that that will be a resource rather than a capital issue. However, the overall capital Budget for the Executive is likely to be smaller next year than this year. That means that the overall quantum of the draft allocation that is made directly to schools for the capital programme will be smaller. However, there have been indications from the Department of Finance that it is looking to supplement that through the reinvestment and reform initiative (RRI). As part of that, part of our bid for next year will look at not only where we are with the mainstream baseline capital build but at what capital funding can provided through RRI. That is likely to concentrate particularly on additional quick intervention for special needs education.”
“However, a move to much smaller class sizes would require a high level of resource-intensive commitment. Ultimately, I can allocate only what is in the Department of Education's budget. While we are still in the draft Budget stage, the overall Education budget for next year, outside the COVID interventions, is likely to be fairly close to being flatlined in cash terms, meaning there will be no radical change. <BR /> <BR />I am also looking at where interventions will take place in the best possible way. By the summer, we are due to have the report of the expert panel on educational underachievement. I will study closely its recommendations and try to ensure that, as much as possible, they are implemented as well.”
“I did not say that there was no impact at all. However, if we are looking at interventions, particularly on the academic side, there is limited evidence that, outside of early years, smaller classes make a significant difference. <BR /> <BR />Where there are learning difficulties and issues with special educational needs, there is a process that allows one-to-one interventions, particularly for somebody who is statemented. With that statement, intervention for an individual will be retained. That may mean that a particular classroom assistant is assigned to an individual, and that, I think, is the right way to tackle it. <BR /> <BR />As for the broader issue of class sizes and looking at best practice, I will try to ensure that we get the best results with the levels of investment and resources that are available.”
“Using normal formative assessment approaches in the classroom, schools will work to understand where pupils are in their learning after the period of remote learning. I am confident that schools will identify and support the pupils who are most likely to experience difficulties in engaging with learning. However, I fully recognise that there will be a need to plan for and to fund ongoing, evidence-based interventions to support schools to limit the long-term effects of the current disruption. I plan to bring proposals to the Executive shortly for a further support programme for a range of educational settings. That will build on the work of the Engage programme in 2021, subject to Executive agreement and availability of funding.”
“The available evidence on educational attainment suggests that, except in the very early years, class size reduction does not have a significant impact on student outcomes and that the main driver of the variation in pupil learning at school is the quality of teaching provided. Small reductions in class size are unlikely to be cost-effective relative to other strategies. Other interventions such as individual or small group tuition provided to those most in need through my Department’s Engage programme are likely to have a greater impact.”
“I thank the Member for his question. My Department already operates a policy of maximum class sizes for children in the foundation stage and Key Stage 1 as well as for practical subjects in the curriculum.”
“<BR /> <BR />Also important and why, for instance, motivation is one of the areas that will be recorded, is that it is important for schools to see where there are potential trends. If, for example, they see particular problems with racism, misogyny or whatever, they will be able to have a bit of a data capture. At least they will be able to see where the bullying is coming from and, hopefully, be able to target any actions to directly deal with the problem.”
“I think that we will have individual cases. It is important that, first of all, levels of support are given to victims of bullying. There will not always be a one-size-fits-all type of situation, and individual interventions will need to take place. Clearly, one of the things that will need to happen is good education in the classroom to help to prevent bullying in the first place. Again, rather than trying to deal with the consequences of something, we should try to ease it at the start. That will also not only go down in the guidance but will play to the actions that schools will take in the policies that are developed by governors. Teachers are wise enough to know what levels of interventions are there.”
“The Education Authority has also provided training and online resources for schools and their governors. <BR /> <BR />While we should have a strong system and one that protects our young people, it is important that we also ensure that recording bullying incidents does not become an additional administrative burden. We believe that the online recording of incidents means that it can be done in such a way that does not add any significant administrative burden to schools. <BR /> <BR />In many ways, it is about taking a belt and braces approach. We believe in trying to create a very similar approach because the vast bulk of schools will have procedures in place already anyway. Hopefully, we will simply be building on good practice.”
“I understand that. We will give as much support and guidance as we can. Guidance has been developed and designed to accompany the Act. It is important to say that this is not something that is just imposed from on high. On the input, we have done a considerable amount of work in working out the implementation with, for instance, the teachers' unions to ensure that the guidance is fit for purpose. There will also be significant input from teachers and wider educational professionals so that what is there is fit for the present. For example, while there are opportunities for schools to develop the methodology for the recording requirements, a bullying incident recording system has been developed and will be available on C2k should schools wish to use it.”
“A lot of schools are very proactive on that front, and these duties will just create a situation in which that best practice is shared across the system.”
“They should be reviewed at least every four years in order to ensure that they are fit for purpose. The legislation will require a review at intervals not exceeding four years. <BR /> <BR />Governors will be actively involved in developing and monitoring the effectiveness of their schools' anti-bullying policies. It is important that those policies do not simply sit on a shelf but are directly implemented. Governors will also be better informed when supporting or, indeed, challenging how staff handled an incident. <BR /> <BR />In many ways, as I mentioned, this is about dealing with best practice. Most schools will already have policies on bullying in place, and it is important that that is the case.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I agree with the Member on the longer-term impact that bullying can have on individuals. Sadly, we are seeing a difficulty with bullying that happens entirely outside the remit of the school, and that is beyond the reach of any legislation. We can see what happens on social media. Specifically, boards of governors, as a corporate body, are legally responsible for all the decision and actions taken in their name by individual governors, the principal, or by committees to which they have delegated functions. The Act will place a statutory duty on boards of governors to determine the detailed measures that are to be taken at schools in order to prevent bullying and to ensure that the measures are properly implemented and are kept under periodic review.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Act, which will commence on 1 September this year, will provide a common definition of bullying; require all schools to centrally record incidents of bullying, the motivation and outcome; and require each school’s board of governors to take greater collective responsibility for the development, implementation, monitoring and periodic review of a school's anti-bullying policies and procedures. The recording requirements of the legislation will allow schools to monitor patterns and trends of bullying and ensure that instances of bullying are addressed promptly and effectively.”
“The intention of the Addressing Bullying in Schools Act (Northern Ireland) 2016 is to provide greater consistency in how schools respond to bullying incidents and allegations and to ensure that all pupils are protected to the same best-practice standards. The Act is an important piece of legislation that builds on schools’ existing duty of care for their pupils and strengthens the protection that pupils can expect if they experience bullying in school.”
“Coordination between the community and schools can happen, particularly on the sports field. I am acutely aware that activities can be delivered through a sports club or a community-based organisation that can take sport over and above what can be directly delivered in schools. I know that sporting initiatives have happened down the years, and I am keen to see those embraced during the summer months.”
“Yes, very much so. I know that there is good interaction and working between our schools and community organisations. In particular, we see that interaction in the sporting context. Often, school sports grounds are linked with community sports facilities. I will bring proposals to the Executive on a wider recovery package for our young people and their education. While there will be a focus on the academic side, there will also be a focus on broader mental health and well-being. <BR /> <BR />Physical activity, particularly over the summer, will be critical. As part of the overall package that will, hopefully, run throughout the year, there will be specific activities targeted for the summer months. By that stage, I hope that the vast majority of restrictions will have been lifted.”
“As well as being Chair of the Education Committee, I know that the Member has a strong interest in sports and comes from a very strong sporting background. Sport is very important to give a wider context to our young people. Everything that we do should be coordinated as much as possible and use a level of cooperation. Clearly, with sport and education, there is a strong nexus between the Departments of Communities, Health and Education. Therefore, I am happy to commit to work towards a coordinated response. Whatever sport we follow, many of us associate St Patrick's Day as a great school sports occasion. Unfortunately, that will not happen this year, but the sooner that we can resume sporting activities to benefit all our young people, the better.”
“Part of my old school song was "sana mens in corpore sano", which means a healthy mind in a healthy body, and the interlinkage between the two is important, not just for the physical advantage of our young people but because the impact on mental health and well-being is critical.”
“That is why, when reference was made to the issue of spectators, a particular provision was included in the pathway document to allow a level of spectators at school events. It is important that there is a balance. <BR /> <BR />From that point of view, it is important that we move as quickly as possible to the resumption of sports activities. Whatever mitigations need to be put in place can be examined and will be dependent upon what information the Executive receive from the Public Health Agency and the Department of Health on those mitigations. There is interlinkage between the two.”
“I take that on board. Maybe they are looking to this House. We are not always on the same team. Team-based sports are always a little bit of a dubious issue in that regard. <BR /> <BR />The broader return to education will, in part, be done on the basis of a range of mitigations that we will put in place, and the same can be done with sport. Perhaps there is a slight misunderstanding among some people, because, when the pathway document was produced, it put school sports specifically at strand 4, but the wider sports side was put at strand 2. Those two can move along together, and it is important that, if we see a movement in sport in general, that should also include school sports.”
“Opportunities for children and young people to participate in school sports help them build upon the knowledge and skills they develop through the PE curriculum. Schools often build effective relationships with the communities that they service through the medium of sport. Community use of school sports facilities makes an important contribution to community cohesiveness as well. <BR /> <BR />I recognise that participation in physical activity, both inside and outside of school, makes an important contribution to the well-being and personal development of all our young people. That is why I am very keen to see a return to sport as soon as possible.”
“I thank the Member for his question. My focus is on achieving a return to face-to-face education for all children, and I must reluctantly accept that some activities associated with schools that have a somewhat higher risk due to mixing within and between year groups, such as school sports, must remain paused at the moment. Those activities will therefore remain paused until public health advice permits them to recommence. <BR /> <BR />There are many issues around the return to school, including sport, and they will form part of the wider Executive considerations. Indeed, the next stage of that will be tomorrow. The resumption of sport forms part of the Executive's pathway out of restrictions.”
“The COVID recovery plan has to be comprehensive across a range of issues. As I said, it will probably look not simply at academic matters but at mental health and physical well-being. The interaction of groups involved will require cross-departmental work with Health, because the resolution of some of the issues for individuals will be tailored to the needs of the individual. That is where the focus needs to be for those children.”