Peter Weir
Strangford · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Funding was secured for that scheme, and we have been able to take further steps on it. As highlighted by my colleague Diane Dodds, we have seen my successor, the current Minister, be able to implement it at the beginning of September 2021 and funding be made available for it.”
“One of the great fears — I saw it particularly, as Education Minister, from the point of view of children and the domestic setting between partners — was what was going to happen in families when the doors closed and the locks went on. What was happening behind closed doors?”
“There is another significant element of the Bill. I have spoken about it in the Chamber on a couple of occasions. There is always a slight danger that we, as legislators, see legislation as being the end of a process and think that we can pack it away, put it on the shelf and forget about the problem because it has been solved.”
“I welcome the passage of the Bill's Final Stage and commend all the campaigners who have pressed so hard for it and the Bill sponsor. For Pat Catney, hearing some of the tributes must be like hearing eulogies at your funeral, without having to go through the indignity of dying, which is always a double advantage.”
“As highlighted by a number of Members, the impact of period poverty, though not confined to it, has been particularly acute in young women's education. We know that the impact can lead to the missing of education and constraints within education, and that it does so in a disproportionate way.”
“I support the Bill's Final Stage, and I commend the Bill's sponsor for introducing it. I thank the Minister and the Department for the positive attitude that they have taken towards it.”
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“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I appreciate that you cannot speculate on that, but is it in order for a Member to question the integrity of the Chair on the motivation behind a decision, as the Member who spoke before the previous one did?”
“OK. I urge Members to reject the motion before us and to deal with the issues.”
“— has known her the longest. She is a person of integrity, ability and conviction. She will carry on. She will lead for unionism in Northern Ireland. She is not a Mike-come-lately.”
“People said no. I give the leader of the SDLP some praise for what he has done on this issue. He has at least moved on. Some time ago, he was carrying the coffin of a dissident terrorist. He has now moved on to carrying the Ulster Unionist Party on his back, which has trooped in loyally behind him. <BR /> <BR />We are not going to have trial by television and radio. We are not going to have trial by innuendo and smear, trial by revenge or trial by jealousy. On the matter of prejudging the issues, members of the Public Accounts Committee, who are supposed to give an objective view on this, have already decided that they have given their objective view. They have produced a verdict before it is reached. <BR /> <BR />I have known Arlene Foster since she was 18. I am probably the person in the Chamber who —”
“That shows the kind of mature attitude that is being taken here. <BR /> <BR />People had the opportunity this year to vote Mike and get Colum or vote Colum and get Mike. That is possibly the most unattractive two-for-one offer that has ever been made in the history of marketing.”
“<BR /> <BR />At the heart of this is the issue of the election. We have been told recently, "Vote Mike, get Colum" or, "Vote Colum, get Mike". Let me make it very clear —”
“They have dealt with the issue with a level of glee that shows that they hoped that it was a much greater figure, because that would cause a greater degree of political difficulty. It is a case of basking entirely in hindsight. As has been highlighted, throughout all the consultations and in all the debates in the Assembly and the Committee structures, not a single voice from the main opposition parties said, "Hold on a moment. This has been got wrong. We need to put a cap on this. We need to bring this to a swifter conclusion". On the contrary, when the RHI scheme was brought to a close earlier this year, the opposition parties trooped in one by one to oppose its closure, complaining about the impact that that would have on jobs and the local economy. They did not want to close it; rather, they wanted it extended.”
“No. The Member will have his chance. Indeed, the Member had the chance to question the First Minister earlier but abrogated that responsibility. <BR /> <BR />The First Minister took the responsible leadership role today by outlining that. People want to see a process in which the costs are reduced so that they are not a burden in the future. By contrast, the position taken by the opposition parties is a politically motivated stunt targeted at an individual. It offers no solutions as to how we move forward. The motion does not even reference an inquiry. <BR /> <BR />What we have seen over the past couple of weeks from the Opposition is an opportunistic and cynically driven approach to the issue. We have heard numerous members of the Opposition writing off the £400 million as if it has already been spent.”
“We support an entirely independent inquiry that will bring its own verdict on events so far and, most importantly, because this is what the electorate is looking for, identify potential actions to reduce the cost as we move ahead and remove the burden from future taxpayers. We saw the first steps —”
“When an exclusion motion or vote of no confidence is put before the House, the debate is essentially about leadership. To my mind, the test of leadership is not whether we have a perfect society in which problems do not arise and mistakes are not made; the test of true leadership is in dealing with those problems, in facing up to responsibilities when problems arise and in finding solutions. <BR /> <BR />Today, the Assembly had two different routes that it could take. There were two pieces of business on the Order Paper. The first came from the First Minister. Her statement detailed the facts of how we got to where we are on the RHI. It outlined support for a fully independent inquiry. Indeed, let me make this clear in case there is any degree of confusion: it is not a DUP or a Sinn Féin inquiry.”
“If there is something rational that, from a financial point of view, produces the same result, that will, I think, be embraced, but there is no doubt that we are in tough times, and people should not delude themselves that it is otherwise.”
“There will be limited money in the Department of Education and limited money available from the Education Authority. Consequently, if the response is simply a blanket, "No, this should not happen", I do not think that that would be good enough to persuade people into an alternative course of action. The opportunities are there, and there is a challenge there. I do not believe that members of the Education Authority board have a doctrinaire or set view of what should happen. I urge people who feel constrained by the way in which the consultation has been done to avail themselves of the opportunities and to make sure that, if there is an alternative, they put it forward.”
“If there is an alternative way forward and a better way of providing outdoor education provision, it will, I suspect, require some change. If there is a belief that the ranking of centres is wrong and that there should be a different configuration of the services, the Education Authority members will, I think, be entirely open to that. Nobody is coming at this from a doctrinaire position. I will simply say that people have to put a viable alternative — a plan B. If, for instance, the argument is that, within the Education Authority, £1·3 million should not be saved here and another part of its budget should be cut, people should have the courage to make that argument. <BR /> <BR />I will simply say that, as with all these things, there are caveats.”
“What I will say is that those who will take the final decision or, at least, the decision from the EA's point of view will be those sitting on the board. Mr McGrath mentioned that, of a total of 20, eight come from a political background and others represent different sectors. Having spoken to some of those people, I do not believe that they have a doctrinaire position and an agenda of closure. From that point of view, there is an opportunity there. Some ideas of how to formulate an alternative — a plan B — were mentioned today. If people feel that they are restricted by a consultation, there is nothing to stop them writing directly to the members of the Education Authority, and suggestions can be put together.”
“That is not the reality. It may well be that it is redirected to plug another gap, but the Youth Service cannot be exempt from the pressures. If there have to be savings across the board, EA in particular will probably face a lot of the pressures because the principal responsibility is to protect front-line services in the aggregated schools budget as much as possible. There will be gaps. It can be dressed up as being redirected, but gaps will be plugged. From that point of view, if £1·3 million is not saved in one area, it will have to be saved elsewhere. That is the economic reality of the situation. <BR /> <BR />I appreciate that there will always be paranoia about how any consultation is conducted, who is conducting it and what the motivations are: I understand that entirely.”
“Unless there is a degree of change, we will face very difficult decisions; indeed, unless there is an increase in the education budget, cuts may well have to be made that are more painful even than the cuts that are proposed today. I add that caveat. I appreciate that people —”
“That is part of the hidden cost of our block grant settlement. As we look ahead to next year and wait to see what emerges in the budget, there is not a great deal of hope that things will suddenly get a lot better. Investment from the Executive in education is needed across the board. A number of Departments face a key challenge with the amount of money that is available overall.”
“I appreciate that suggestions have been made today. It is important that people build on those proposals. <BR /> <BR />Finance is undoubtedly a key factor in where we are with education. Some of this might be a bit repetitive of last week's debate, but this year's education budget — not in real terms but in actual terms — was down by £52 million against a backdrop of about £100 million of pressures. To be fair to the Executive, some things that emerged simply happened by way of life, such as pay pressures, but other things have been imposed nationally and have nothing to do with the Northern Ireland Executive or anyone in the House. In this year's budget — it is ongoing — some £40 million of additional employers' National Insurance contributions will have to be paid. In health, that figure is probably in the region of £100 million.”
“Previously, statutory outdoor centres were maintained by five education boards, and we now have one body in the Education Authority. Without being prejudicial to any decision that might be made, it is critical that we look at what is available and appropriate for Northern Ireland as a whole and try to deliver on that basis. That is without prejudice to any discussions taking place. Undoubtedly, there is also a financial element. Indeed, in education and other aspects, decisions that come across my desk are not, generally speaking, between good and bad services. They are sometimes about which good service we maintain and which good service we cut. From that point of view, whatever decisions are made on this and other issues, good things will be cut; I am not denying that. The bottom line is that we move ahead.”
“From that point of view, any closure or change in the system is not being driven because a bad service is being provided; nobody is making that argument. <BR /> <BR />There are two issues. There is the matter of an appropriate balance of provision throughout Northern Ireland. While a clear decision has to be made and put forward by the Education Authority, it is critical that, whatever emerges from the process — we are in a consultation process, and decisions have not been finalised — it has to be fit for purpose for our young people. It will be critical to ensure that that is the case. Inadequate provision will simply not be stood over against whatever constraints there are. As mentioned by Members, it is also wrong to believe that it is simply about the level of provision.”
“Beyond that, there is a key commitment to youth in the Department, and approximately £34 million of resource and about £9 million of direct capital has been spent in that area. <BR /> <BR />It is undoubtedly the case that there is a very passionate debate about the issue. We saw that last week with how it has affected the South Down area, and we have seen that today with Bushmills. One of the indications of that is the high attendance in the Public Gallery, which I acknowledge. That is ultimately why decisions will need to be taken responsibly. <BR /> <BR />As we look ahead, there are a lot of issues. No one is decrying the fact that outdoor education is important or that good work has been done in Bushmills and the other centres; mention was made of the centres in South Down and others.”
“Like last week, I thank the Member for bringing forward the issue. I also acknowledge the contribution made by all Members, who spoke passionately and articulately about where we are with this. Somebody mentioned last week that the focus is always on schools. I will be honest: schools and, indeed, the delivery of education to children through schools have always been and will continue to be my first priority and that of the Department.”
“I believe that there can be constructive dialogue around those. It is not about how we look backwards, whether it is storming the Winter Palace or, if you like, the jungles of Havana; it is about looking forward to where we can move in the future, from 2017 onwards. That is the encouragement that I would give, rather than taking the irresponsible attitude of encouraging strike action to deprive our children of their education.”
“Yes, to be fair, whatever other criticism I would make, like Castro, you have been consistent in your position for the last half century. I will not criticise the Member for inconsistency on that basis. As a Member who spoke previously alluded to, my main concern is the children. I think that it is highly irresponsible of the Member to encourage people to go out on strike, particularly in circumstances in which there is not additional money. It is not a question of obduracy; it is a question of there not being money in the budget to be able to provide for this issue. The Member is trailblazing with the red flag down the path of no return in relation to this, because there will not be, and cannot be, additional money for that period. <BR /> <BR />There have been long-term issues in relation to the teaching workforce.”
“No, I would not. I am not going to take a lecture from the Member on being obdurate. I suspect he has not changed his position in about the last half century. What needs to happen —”
“The reality is that the amount has not changed but, as with any capital project, there is always likely to be some level of fluctuation.”
“Sorry, with respect, they are not spiralling out of control. If you are comparing figures, you have to compare like with like. As I indicated, if you do not add an optimism bias, the figure is £137 million; with the optimism bias, it is £159 million. That has been the position for the last number of months. If I were buying something in the Member's shop, he could add VAT to it or not, and the money that the Member would get in his pocket would be different from the price on the shelf. It is a question of comparing like with like. I am not in a position to be able to knock down prices to provide a cheaper alternative. I commend anyone from the Groomsport area to Mr Chambers's shop. He provides a very good service. You will not get stuff being given away, like Santa's grotto, but the Member will provide a good service.”
“For example, there was an issue in Omagh relating to road transport that had to be covered. However, the figures have not changed in the last couple of months.”
“The short answer is that it has not. Again, a couple of figures have been bandied about in that regard. The issue is whether you count the straight figure as the direct cost, but most major capital projects have an optimism bias added to the cost. So, the figure quoted, which, I think, was referenced to be about £140 million, was £137 million without the optimism bias, which is effectively to ensure that there is some degree of protection for contingencies. When the optimism bias is added, the figure is £159 million. So, it is about which figure you are looking at. From that point of view, the figure has not changed in the last couple of months. There have been alterations since the initial estimate a number of years ago. That has been through a range of additional pressures.”
“Broadly speaking, I am content. However, if the Member has any particular concerns in relation to that which he is keen for the Department to probe, I am very happy to receive those. I am happy to respond to whatever the Member raises. Generally speaking, things have worked fairly well. We have secure checks in place. Nothing in life can ever be 100% watertight, and that is always the danger that we have to try to avoid, where possible. However, I have a general level of contentment. If the Member has specific concerns and writes to me about them, I will look into those for him.”
“On the details of the particular person, I will be happy to write to the Member — I do not have the name off the top of my head. I pay tribute to a lot of the work that is happening through voluntary youth organisations. Obviously, there are Access NI checks to be done for child protection. That is something that lies outside my Department. I know that, at times, there can be frustration at the length of time they take. From that point of view, it important that we pay tribute to all the good work that is happening in whatever organisation provides voluntary youth work. It fills the gap from what is there from the statutory sector. People give very willingly of their time to provide that service.”
“This is an important time for that opportunity to be given; it is available, and letters will be going out to every post-primary school in Northern Ireland.”
“I see it as something that could be mainstreamed. Initially, in the broad CSR period, it will be for the next three years. However, I do not see any cap on the time in that. Again, within the confines of the overall Budget, it is a relatively small amount of money compared to some other costs that lie within my Department or others. I hope that it will gain traction. It has been very successful in other parts of the United Kingdom. I think that there is a particular resonance as we move towards some of the most historic anniversaries. Obviously, this year marks the 100th anniversary of the Somme. Looking ahead, next year it will be 100 years since Passchendaele. The year after that will be the 100th anniversary of the end of the First World War.”
“No school is obliged to take it, but I encourage schools from across the community to take advantage of it and to, if you like, help to make history real, not just from the syllabus, but to highlight some of the great sacrifices that were made to allow us all the freedoms we have today.”
“The battlefields project was launched today by me and Minister Givan. It has been available in other parts of the United Kingdom, but it was not embraced here. It occasionally happened that the odd school was doing things off its own bat until now. This will now be available. It is jointly funded by my Department and the Department of Communities. It will be available from summer 2017, essentially for year 10 students. There will be representatives from every school. <BR /> <BR />It is particularly looking at the contribution and sacrifice that was made on the First World War battlefields. That was something that happened across the community. Sometimes, people tend to forget that, and pigeonhole it in some shape or form. As such, the offer will be made to all post-primary schools.”
“I am not in a position to give an exact date and, obviously, my duty is to get it onto the Executive's schedule, have it debated by the Executive and then, hopefully, have it passed. From that point of view, while I appreciate that I am directly responsible to the House, I am also directly responsible, in the first instance, to provide papers to the Executive. I hope that that will be reasonably soon. Depending upon what is agreed, we will have to look at the implementation of it.”
“A childcare strategy is being prepared for the Executive, and we need to see how that can be best implemented. I think that there has been an acceptance of a level of support, and I want to see that increased. We will need to ensure that what we are getting is financially viable in the current circumstances. I am happy to engage — indeed, I have done at times — with various childcare organisations to see how we can best take this forward. They were, I think, fairly actively involved in the design work and, indeed, discussions around the development of that childcare strategy. I think that that will be coming fairly soon to the Executive.”
“My key concern is about protecting that school budget, particularly for the children.”
“The position on the two-year pay deal was signed off by the Department of Finance as part of an overall package. Let us remember that increments were built in to 2015-16 and 2016-17. You can compare that with what happens across the water, where automatic increments were abolished in 2013. Again, if you are comparing, you have to compare like with like. The reality is that, as was highlighted in the monitoring round and, indeed, in a wider context, there is not any additional money. There is not any money in the budget, so a certain reality needs to be faced up to. Given where school budgets are at present, the reality is that, if you inject additional pay costs beyond what is there at present, I think that it is only likely to lead to a greater level of staff redundancies. I also have to be careful to try to protect teachers' jobs.”
“Let us remember that, on this direct issue, industrial disputes with teachers have been arising since 2011 onwards. That is not directly related to pay. <BR /> <BR />On the other issue with this, if we are sitting down, let us see what we can do across the board. I think that this is where there is a degree of common interest. As I mentioned earlier, if one of the arguments that is being used is around conditions to do with the pressures that are put on teachers with the requirements of additional paperwork, I am keen to see that discussed between management and the trade unions. We should explore where we can lift more bureaucracy out of the system, particularly where it is unnecessary. I urge the unions to take up the offer of sitting down with the management team to look at where we can get to from 2017 and beyond.”
“It has been made abundantly clear that a call has gone out from the managing authorities to try to sit down and see where we can provide long-term solutions to this. The reality is that, in the 2015-16 and 2016-17 budgets, there is not the money to pay. At times, there have been some issues raised in relation to parity, yet, when an offer was made by management side that was greater than parity, the teachers' unions said no to it. What has been put in place for 2015-16 and 2016-17 was, ultimately, within the current constraints, a fair offer. I appreciate that not everyone will agree with that, but the important thing is that people try to move on from this position. Mr McCann said on a previous occasion that he would be on the barricades with the teachers. Wherever barricades were erected, I think that Mr McCann would be there.”
“I thank the right honourable member for the constituency of NASUWT for his question.”
“We need to ensure that we have a flexible approach, and it is important that we see what links can be built with social media organisations to try to control that. Some steps have been taken, but a lot of them have been a bit slow at times to react. Hopefully, there is a bit of catch-up happening now.”
“That is also part of the remit of the Safeguarding Board. There will need to be liaison with those organisations. Part of the issue is the question of finding where we can apply pressure on social media organisations and trying to find the root of the issue. Part of the problem, as we have seen in a general sense with a lot of Internet problems, is that it is multinational in nature. That makes it a lot more difficult to control, and it is why our minds need to be more agile when thinking about what actions we can take. <BR /> <BR />The stereotype that many of us remember from years ago is of one child hanging around outside the school gate, waiting for another child to emerge and then assault or threaten them. That still happens, but bullying has also moved well beyond that.”
“Schools have a clear remit, and that includes a provision for policies to be developed by boards of governors. However, it is very difficult also to capture where the cyberbullying is happening outwith the school, including at weekends or during the summer holidays. That is why it is not just a question for the Department of Education; it is a question for the Safeguarding Board. We have been trying to work in conjunction with other Departments. It is evil, and we have seen in some extreme cases not just the damaging effect that it can have on people's lives but that some young people in particular have been driven to suicide by cyberbullying or bullying. It is pernicious, and we need to take every possible step that we can to obliterate it from our society.”
“Towards the end of the last mandate, we passed anti-bullying legislation. As it is implemented by schools, part of that will be not simply to record the bullying but to find out its methodology and cause. When I was Chair of the Committee, we wrestled with how best that could be implemented. One thing was to try to ensure the accurate capture of all that information without running the risk of creating what would, effectively, become a league table showing where the greatest levels of bullying were and were not. There was a danger of stigmatising schools or that schools would not take bullying seriously enough and try to dismiss it. <BR /> <BR />The Bill, which received Royal Assent on 12 May this year, recognises cyberbullying as a key aspect. It is a complex legal issue, and cyberbullying is an area in which it is hard to differentiate.”
“That is a very valid point. As I said, the strategy is due to be launched early in the new year. If we all take a step back, we can see the speed at which technology is changing. When we think of our own schooldays — if we can think back that far — we know the difficulties. I appreciate that the journey is shorter for some in the House than for others. We have to realise that what is relevant now has changed from what was relevant two or three years ago. That is why it is critical not just to create a strategy but to have an overall implementation plan that is live and has the flexibility to ensure that, whatever the changes in technology or the broad cultural changes — sometimes, it is less about the technology and more about how it is adapted and used — there can be a fairly quick response to the changing environment.”
“Those include developing a consistent approach to e-safety in schools through strong departmental direction and technical provision; the education of our children and young people and those who work with them; the development of a consistent approach to e-safety messages for children, young people, parents, carers and practitioners; the embedding of a culture of e-safety in schools, colleges, youth services and organisations; and the skilling up of practitioners who work with children, young people and families. It is not simply a question of creating of a strategy. Once agreed, the strategy will be implemented through a three-year delivery plan.”
“The vision of the strategy is for all children and young people to make the best use of the educational, social and economic benefits of the online world while staying safe from potential harm online. Subject to Executive approval, the draft strategy will issue for public consultation early in the new year. <BR /> <BR />There are specific aims in the strategy that are applicable to schools.”
“A number of courses and resources that deal with various aspects of safety are aimed specifically at Key Stage 2 to Key Stage 4 pupils.”