Peter Weir
Strangford · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Funding was secured for that scheme, and we have been able to take further steps on it. As highlighted by my colleague Diane Dodds, we have seen my successor, the current Minister, be able to implement it at the beginning of September 2021 and funding be made available for it.”
“One of the great fears — I saw it particularly, as Education Minister, from the point of view of children and the domestic setting between partners — was what was going to happen in families when the doors closed and the locks went on. What was happening behind closed doors?”
“There is another significant element of the Bill. I have spoken about it in the Chamber on a couple of occasions. There is always a slight danger that we, as legislators, see legislation as being the end of a process and think that we can pack it away, put it on the shelf and forget about the problem because it has been solved.”
“I welcome the passage of the Bill's Final Stage and commend all the campaigners who have pressed so hard for it and the Bill sponsor. For Pat Catney, hearing some of the tributes must be like hearing eulogies at your funeral, without having to go through the indignity of dying, which is always a double advantage.”
“As highlighted by a number of Members, the impact of period poverty, though not confined to it, has been particularly acute in young women's education. We know that the impact can lead to the missing of education and constraints within education, and that it does so in a disproportionate way.”
“I support the Bill's Final Stage, and I commend the Bill's sponsor for introducing it. I thank the Minister and the Department for the positive attitude that they have taken towards it.”
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“<BR /> <BR />As with a lot of things in life during the last three years, things have changed in the process. The Committee has changed its membership on a number of occasions and has changed its chairmanship twice. At this point, I would like to pay tribute to my two predecessors who were involved in the process, Mervyn Storey and Michelle McIlveen. It is perhaps appropriate in an education debate that there is a feeling of getting up and reading out someone else's homework today, given the work that has been put in over the last three years. Also during that period, the education and library boards have become the Education Authority, viability audits have been replaced with annual area profiles, and the area planning coordination group appeared to change its membership and also became a steering group.”
“The Committee’s scrutiny of the area planning process began almost three years ago. In the intervening period, the Committee has undertaken a number of formal and informal evidence sessions with many stakeholders, including parents, teachers, principals, representative organisations, the relevant arm's-length bodies and not forgetting, of course, the Minister and his Department. The Committee also benefited from support from a special adviser, Professor Tony Gallagher. The end result of all that work is the position paper before the Assembly today with its recommendations. At this stage, I would like to take the opportunity to thank all our witnesses, particularly Professor Gallagher, for their contributions to the Committee’s scrutiny.”
“I thank the Minister for his responses so far, and I look forward to working with him. What progress has been made on refining the criteria used, in particular, for over-subscribed programmes in Sure Start to ensure that early intervention is better targeted?”
“The Member spoke about the views of Mr Allister on DSD matters: is he surprised that, in the TUV manifesto, there was not a single mention of housing?”
“As anyone who has campaigned for equality on any issue will tell you, it will, therefore, be simply a staging post. If the motion is passed and the Executive take action, the very same supporters of the motion will come back to take further action to remove any exemption for the Churches. There is no doubt about that. At best, today's motion represents — there has been an attempt to disguise this — a temporary reprieve for the Churches and those of faith. <BR /> <BR />For all those reasons, I urge the House to reject the motion.”
“No, I want to get through this. <BR /> <BR />Similarly, if we are looking at the endgame, we should remember that when the then Prime Minister, Tony Blair, brought in civil partnerships, we were told that this was meant to clear up all the issues: civil partnerships were the complete solution, and marriage itself was not being tampered with. Yet we see, 10 years down the line, an attempt to redefine secular marriage. How much assurance can we have that, further down the line, there will not be an attempt at redefining the religious sacrament of marriage? <BR /> <BR />I have to say that, if you are a supporter of pure equality in marriage, this motion does not cut it for you because, essentially, it says that you can have marriage on certain grounds but there will be exclusions.”
“<BR /> <BR />Perhaps the most serious thing is the impact that it would have on Churches and faith organisations. There was an attempt to sugar the pill in relation to that. We have supposedly, in the motion, the provision to try to protect those Churches. I ask what level of worth that has and whether we are faced today with a motion that is really the endgame. If we see a situation in which the definition of marriage is redefined in this nature and various Churches resist that, as they would, how long will it be before pressure comes on them and there is some of court challenge or indeed pressure is put on them with regard to the funding that would go to them? For those who see that as fanciful, we have seen recently in the Ashers case that there are to be no exemptions or exceptions for the exercise of conscience.”
“The motion is clearly an attack on the symbolism and institution of marriage and is an attempt to redefine marriage. My party believes, as do I from my personal beliefs and convictions, that marriage is between one man and one woman. Once you redefine that, you lose the essence of marriage itself. I have no doubt that some proponents of this will say that that definition is not inclusive. I freely accept that it is not an inclusive definition because marriage, by its nature, is not inclusive: it makes a range of boundaries and restrictions. There are restrictions on the age at which people can be married and the nature of the blood relationship between those who would potentially get married. Similarly, it is restricted to two people; one man and one woman. Marriage, by its nature, then, has a special place in society.”
“Clearly, this is an attempt to try to exploit differences in those parties for pure electoral gain. It is disappointing that there will not be a serious debate on that basis. <BR /> <BR />At the outset, I want to say that the position with regard to the definition of marriage in the Republic of Ireland — although it is only obliquely referred to in the motion — is a matter entirely for them. I take no position at all on the referendum. It is not my place to try to interfere in the internal affairs of another sovereign country. However, I hope that such a referendum never takes place in this jurisdiction. <BR /> <BR />It is not about a rights agenda. When civil partnerships were brought in, that conferred a range of rights. That was meant to sort out the rights issues. It dealt with that.”
“I am speaking on behalf of the DUP. My party will oppose the motion for a number of reasons. First of all, the proposer of the motion mentioned that it is the fourth occasion on which it has been brought to the House this mandate. The make-up of the House has altered very little during that period. Clearly, this is an attempt at an electoral stunt. This is not a serious debate. Indeed, that was indicated by the previous Member who spoke when she made the offensive remarks effectively comparing those who oppose same-sex marriage or a redefinition of marriage to those who took a particular view in apartheid South Africa. I find that deeply offensive. <BR /> <BR />I think that the game was given away by the proposer of the motion when she referred to the SDLP, Alliance Party and Ulster Unionist Party.”
“<BR /> <BR />The report contains recommendations that need to be adopted and carefully studied. For all our sakes, particularly as we move into an era in which the size of the public sector is likely to be smaller — the number of staff is likely to be smaller — that will become a necessity rather than an advantage.”
“The report highlighted the studies done by the City of London Corporation and HMRC, which has been able to reduce its sickness absence considerably. At times, some of us may not necessarily see a reduction in sickness absences in HMRC as the best thing. Nevertheless, it has been very successful in reducing absences, and there are clear lessons to be learned. <BR /> <BR />Good work has been done in DFP, and the report highlights the need to ensure that what is happening in DFP, and some of the pilot programmes that have begun there, is rolled out across the Civil Service. It is important to have a joined-up approach. The Chair of the OFMDFM Committee indicated that they had been successful in OFMDFM. Success has been somewhat patchy across Departments, and it is important to get joined-up thinking and success.”
“We have seen other interventions, particularly through face-to-face contacts, interviews and wider events such as No Smoking Day, which can all have an impact on health. As a result, we have seen a decline in sickness absence. That has helped to focus on short-term illness. However, that may have a long-term impact because there is a danger that, if you create a culture where there are short-term absences, it can lead to that. <BR /> <BR />There is no doubt that the thrust of the report looks at long-term illnesses, and that has a major impact on the Civil Service and on the public service as a whole. A wise person learns from their mistakes; an even wiser person learns from someone else's mistakes.”
“Any of us who are involved in tribunals can see the doctor's report of someone who has massive difficulty with movement in their back or can see someone sitting with a broken leg covered in plaster, and that is all very visible. However, mental health is a lot more intangible and the symptoms are a lot less obvious, but they are altogether very real. <BR /> <BR />It is important to acknowledge that, while there is a problem, the report highlights the good work that has been done on this, particularly by the Minister and his predecessor. We have seen the intervention in the creation of the WELL programme, which, while still in its infancy, has led to 170 trained champions throughout the Civil Service.”
“As I think has been mentioned by a number of Members, there are intangible benefits to reducing the level of sickness and, indeed, intangible problems are created. It is not simply the cost and the lack of productivity. The danger with high levels of sickness absence is that it becomes a vicious circle. Indeed, it places an additional strain on those workers who are left to cover the work of absent colleagues in whatever Department or section, and that, in turn, can lead to sickness absences from them. <BR /> <BR />Mr Nesbitt and others were correct to focus on mental health, as, for many years, it has been the Cinderella service. We have all seen that, and not just through sickness absences.”
“I think that it is important to draw the attention of the Health Department and the Education Department — and the respective Committees — to those aspects of the report because this is not something for DFP or even the Executive as a whole; it burrows into a number of Departments. Beyond the sheer statistics, mention has been made of the direct potential savings if we simply move to a situation in which we are brought into line with the rest of the United Kingdom.”
“I will try and be a little less partisan than the previous Member was in his closing comments. As highlighted by all Members so far, there is a wealth of statistics in this, which shows the significance of the problem. It has been highlighted and already mentioned by others that, in the Civil Service as a whole, you are talking about £30 million of a direct cost. There are very significant indications, particularly in health and education, of £73 million in health and £46 million in education. As regards those two specific areas, it is not surprising that the figures are high, given the size of those sections of the public sector, but the depth of them should concern us. <BR /> <BR />Very specifically as regards health and education, there are a number of recommendations in the report.”
“I thank the junior Minister for her response. Can she elaborate on the more recently announced project for the Markets, Donegall Pass and Sandy Row? What progress is being made there, and what is the timeline?”
“Consequently, I believe that the 3% cut was seen as a reasonable approach by the majority of Commission members. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, Mr Deputy Speaker, I commend the motion to the Assembly as an important element in assisting the Commission to live within its reduced budget.”
“"Physician, heal thyself", before challenging or criticising someone else from the high moral ground. <BR /> <BR />What we have, Mr Deputy Speaker, is a reasonable approach in the circumstances. We are living under a straitened financial burden, which means the Assembly has had to cut £2 million. We were able to, at least by way of majority position and, I think, on all issues eventually, reach a situation that enables us to live within budget, despite the challenges. We should remember that, if there are any redundancies arising out of the FAPP scheme, there is not the opportunity for voluntary exit, or, indeed, any form of package for anyone. That needs to be borne in mind. But it is right that the political parties also bear a share of that overall burden.”
“As I said, it is receipted and audited. I am not aware of the detail of the breakdown, because some of that may come under individual salaries. What is clear is the amount each party receives. He indicated that, for instance, my party receives about £200,000 via the two different elements. That will be reduced as a result of this today by 3%, a loss of about £6,000. We have, from the Whip's point of view, 38 Members to manage. The Whip's office for the TUV manages one Member, who, I appreciate, may at times be a little unmanageable, but does not require a member of staff to do that. Speaking with a DUP hat on, the financing of political parties equates to about £5,000 per Member. I note, for example, that the TUV will receive £25,600 per Member.”
“Indeed, there is an independent audit, which I understand is taking place at the moment. So, this is not a question of people being able to siphon off money for any political party.”
“I turn to a couple of the issues. A case was made for a 10% cut. Obviously, the burden of any difference will have to be borne largely by parties. It is, I think, fair to say that, for some parties, a 3% cut may be reasonably challenging. Others could very easily afford a 10% cut, but then we are not all in the position in this Chamber of being one of the richest parties in western Europe. Indeed, a few additional plates in New York may be enough to pay for a 10% cut. That option is not necessarily available for all of us. <BR /> <BR />Mention has been made of the FAPP scheme by the Member for North Antrim Mr Allister. Any money claimed under the FAPP scheme has to be used for party purposes in relation to the Assembly. Everything is receipted and directly accounted for.”
“I would highlight that concerns have been raised, by the proposer and by Mr Ramsey, in relation to determination and non-determination of the independent panel where, on the one hand — apparently without a great deal of research — it rejected a potential saving, and on other occasions seems, somewhat perversely, to have put in place something that will penalise those who do the most in relation to correspondence and that sort of thing. This is, at least, sensibly based.”
“Unlike others where there may be, for the public service, some level of increment each year, it will mean that members of staff are left more or less on the same wage for a number of years. That is the implication from an adverse-impact point of view. <BR /> <BR />We have a situation where some of the staff who are paid under the FAPP scheme do not have the same rights and entitlements as some other staff in the Assembly or, indeed, as MLAs. What we have here is a contribution to the overall financial situation. It was one, as was indicated, that seemed to have been well discussed and well thought through and, indeed, was evidence-based.”
“I thank Members for their contributions in what has been, perhaps, a livelier debate than some of us may have anticipated. I am grateful that, whatever the divergence between Members, there at least seems to be a level of consensus that it is a necessary part of the overall package. <BR /> <BR />As Members indicated, there was a range of views within this, and there were those who would advocate no change and those who would advocate a 10% change. What we are left with, as part of an overall package for the Assembly, is a 3% cut. <BR /> <BR />It should be remembered that the FAPP scheme has effectively had amounts frozen since 2010, which means, from a practical point of view, that the money largely goes to pay for salaries.”
“I urge people to support the amendment. Let us at least progress a mature discussion on this issue.”
“I have shared a platform with the Evangelical Alliance, where it has spoken directly. I have seen its submission.”
“I appreciate that, but I have only a minute to conclude. <BR /> <BR />In terms of the debate that has been started, mention was made by the Member who spoke previously of the fact that, on this issue, we have the support of the Catholic Church. We also have the broad support of the Presbyterian Church and a number of mainstream denominations in that regard. While not every jot has been agreed, mention was made of a caveat that has been put forward by the Evangelical Alliance. The Evangelical Alliance is in favour of the Bill. There has been much misrepresentation of Paul Givan's Bill; let us not add to that today by pretending that the Evangelical Alliance is against the Bill. There is a wide range —”
“From that point of view, we are open-minded on the issue. We are happy to engage with all parties as to the best way forward. We want to see proper protection for people so that their conscience is protected. We are not doctrinaire on the exact format in which that is done. We want to ensure that that proper protection is put in place, and we will be happy to discuss with all the parties the best way forward.”
“I welcome the fact that there seems to have been at least some level of acknowledgement from around the Chamber that there are serious issues to be debated. If Mr Given's Bill is not precisely the way that people would want, let us at least have that much wider debate. If we can accept that there needs to be a reasonable level of adjustment, let us have that mature conversation and see what the best way forward is. I will give way briefly.”
“We are in danger of encompassing human rights and equality, but doing so in a hierarchy that leaves out those of faith and those from a Christian background.”
“One thing has to be acknowledged, and a number of Members mentioned the remarks of Baroness Hale, the position of the Council of Europe and the survey published just this week by the Equality Commission for Northern Ireland. Many Christians in the United Kingdom feel strongly that it is a cold house in which they are being cold-shouldered. When I look at human rights and equality issues, I am reminded of Orwell's 'Animal Farm', where:”
“As Mr Allister indicated, however, what is slightly disturbing about this debate is that we could have a petition of concern about non-existent legislation. It is tilting at windmills in the tradition of Don Quixote. In this attack Sinn Féin is aided, on this occasion, by the Green Party and NI21, although I appreciate that the previous Member has wriggled out of that particular — I was going to say embarrassment, but perhaps that is a little bit too subjective. It seems to me slightly ridiculous not to allow a proper debate through such a veto. <BR />It may be that we are simply saying that there is not a precise solution that people can agree to.”
“Mr Attwood, it seems, is possessed of just such an ability when looking at the DUP — such, presumably, is his wisdom. I urge Members to look at the merits of the wording rather than what they believe to be the intention behind them. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the consultation that Mr Givan has done on his private Member's Bill. I do not think that Mr Givan would suggest that every jot and tittle is perfectly correct. We do not claim infallibility on behalf of Mr Givan; I do not even think that he would claim it on his own account — certainly not on most days of the week. <BR /> <BR />I understand that there will be Members who take the view that this is not precisely the way forward or, indeed, that the proposals go either too far or not far enough.”
“I do not support the motion, but at least we had the opportunity to hold this debate. We have concerns about the motion and put forward, as we indicated, the amendment to focus in on the one issue. We are, moreover, concerned about a single equality Bill, in part because it could be used, as the proposer of the motion suggested, to extend and expand, rather than merely codify, what is there. A single equality Bill might be not just one Trojan Horse but a stable full to expand the law. That is why we have degrees of reservations. <BR /> <BR />Mr Attwood, on behalf of the SDLP, referring to our amendment, said that he did not really trust our motives. I am reminded of Queen Elizabeth I's declaration that she did not wish to make "windows into men's souls".”
“I am glad that the Member asked that. It is part of the overall roof project and was budgeted for within that project. The overall initial costs — in fact, the overall capital costs full stop — are £95,000, which are part of what I think was about a £4 million project for the roof. There is one initial capital cost. Until now, when groups have been facilitated, there has been an individual cost each time it has been brought forward. This, effectively, operates as a one-off cost.”
“Again, it is up to individual Members. As I indicated, the process is that, if it fits certain criteria, there would then be an application made through the Events Office. From experience elsewhere, there may be an argument that we will have more groups applying than days available. However, to be honest, it is about striking a balance. From that point of view, there is no point in having a building that is lit up every day of the week in a different colour. In that case, it would lose its special significance. It is up to individual Members to encourage whatever groups they want to apply; then the application has to fit the criteria and clear the various hurdles before it can be agreed.”
“Requests should then be forwarded to the Events Office which will seek approval from the Assembly Commission, no less than two calendar months before the event taking place. In line with the policy, that would be agreed by way of consensus. <BR /> <BR />The eight-day provision can also apply to something that is particularly significant to Northern Ireland. To choose an example from a previous occasion, if we had the Giro this year, it would be something that could be considered by the Commission for a specific day within that envelope of eight days. <BR /> <BR />The aim is to try to facilitate special events by lighting up Parliament Buildings, without it becoming something which simply happens on a casual basis and then loses its significance.”
“I thank the Member for his question. In line with the policy, only events organised at Parliament Buildings or in the estate, and which are DFP approved, will have access to the lighting system. It is restricted to charitable, community or non-profit-making organisations, which make a significant contribution to Northern Ireland and are celebrating a significant anniversary or occasion. Only such organisations are permitted to have Parliament Buildings illuminated in a particular colour. <BR /> <BR />Organisations wishing to use the facilities will apply for the use of it directly to the Events Office, in line with this policy and the events policy. The organisers will be asked to seek a triple signature sponsorship, as we would require for any other event, from Members, showing cross-designation support.”
“The Commission agreed unanimously to four specific days during the year. That is in line with the policy, and we have agreed that. From that point of view, there is a system which allows consideration of other days, again, by way of a consensus. So, at the moment, the answer is basically that four days have been unanimously agreed. That is what has been agreed so far.”
“In 2015, the four days chosen by the Assembly Commission are Monday 9 March, International Women’s Day, purple; Tuesday 17 March, St Patrick’s Day, green; Sunday 12 July, orange; and Wednesday 11 November, Remembrance Day, red. <BR /> <BR />Again, in line with the policy, the Commission will permit its charity of the year, which, this year, is the Simon Community, up to five days during a 12-months period, as well as granting up to a maximum of another eight days for other events during the calendar year.”
“With permission, I will answer questions 5 and 7 together. Perhaps we have a question here that can generate more light than heat, for once. <BR /> <BR />The external lighting system is due to be installed in May 2015, and it will have the ability to colour-wash the facade of Parliament Buildings in a single colour. In the meantime, the colour wash of the facade is provided by hand-fitted colour gels, which is done on a one-off basis. <BR /> <BR />At its meeting on 11 November 2014, the Assembly Commission agreed the policy for the external lighting of Parliament Buildings in order to manage the use of that system while preserving the dignity of Parliament Buildings. In line with the policy, the Commission scheduled up to four days during a calendar year for events of its choice.”
“Whether it is their conscience or the reward money, I do not think we care particularly about what people are motivated by. Let us bring some peace and closure to the Dorrian family, and send out a signal that the Assembly has not forgotten Lisa. Justice has still to be done for the Dorrian family.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Dorrian family have been active in trying to ensure that the name of Lisa Dorrian is kept alive through a number of initiatives, be it the blue ribbon campaign, a range of debates, balloon releases and services in their local church — all to highlight the case. Yet, despite the good work of the police, one thing has been missing: those who know what happened to Lisa have not come forward. The most recent campaign to mark the tenth anniversary has been boosted by a reward from the family of £10,000 and a reward from Crimestoppers of £5,000 for information on the whereabouts of Lisa. There is an opportunity, at the very least, for someone who may well be fearful to give that information confidentially. What the family seeks above all is knowledge of the whereabouts of Lisa's body. I quote her father John:”
“They have taken a very proactive approach, and they deserve our praise. Ten years on, however, the Dorrian family still do not have closure. <BR /> <BR />I am sure that most of us in the House have lost a close relative. A lot of us have lost a mother or father and know the heartache that that brings. Losing a child is much more poignant and sad, because it goes against the order of things. It is difficult for any of us to imagine a situation where not simply has a child been lost but the family does not even have the opportunity to give the child a Christian burial or a moment at which they can grieve and a location either by way of a grave or an urn that they can look at and say, "Those are the remains of Lisa Dorrian". That has been denied to the Dorrian family for far too long.”
“<BR /> <BR />Since her disappearance there have been many false trails and false hopes. Suspects have been highlighted, particularly those from a loyalist paramilitary background. For the family, in particular, it is less signficant who carried this out; the central question is where Lisa is today. That is what people need to focus on. <BR /> <BR />I praise the work of the police. Over the last 10 years, there have been, at various stages, eight arrests, none of which led ultimately to charges. There have been 275 searches, and, at various stages, intelligence suggested that Lisa's body had been dumped at locations in County Down or at sea. Sad to say, 10 years on, the body has not been found. The police, to be fair, have interviewed around 4,000 people in connection with the case.”
“That would have enabled her to fulfil her plans to start a new life in Spain or the Canaries and open a business there. Unfortunately, her life was cut short before she had that opportunity. <BR /> <BR />Lisa Dorrian disappeared in the early hours of 28 February 2005. She had been attending a party in a caravan in Ballyhalbert. What is known directly about the disappearance of Lisa Dorrian is that, in the early hours of the morning, she got a call on a mobile and left the caravan, clearly to meet someone. The assumption is that the people she met led directly to her death. There has been speculation that she was attacked, beaten up, killed and then dumped and buried somewhere, but, unfortunately, one of the major problems is that speculation is what we are left with.”
“Indeed, it is poignant that, shortly after her disappearance — it should be a salutary reminder to us — her father said that one of the most difficult things he ever had to do in his life was to tell Lisa's then eight-year-old sister Ciara that her sister was not coming back and that her sister was dead. No father should have to face that. <BR /> <BR />As all of us do, Lisa made mistakes in life. All of us have been in that position. In her last few years, she fell prey to evil people who were involved in criminal actions, particularly drugs. She had also taken active steps to sort out her life. One of the great tragedies of the Lisa Dorrian case is that, at the time of her death, she had recently received a significant amount of compensation for injuries.”
“It is a shame on the grounds that, 10 years on from the disappearance of Lisa Dorrian, the case remains unresolved, but, above all, it is a shame that the matter needs to be debated at all, because the disappearance and assumed murder of Lisa Dorrian is a terrible tragedy that should never have been inflicted on the Dorrian family. It is just over 10 years since Lisa disappeared. Lisa should be with us today. If Lisa Dorrian was alive today, she would be 35 years old. At the time of her disappearance, she was 25. She was a bubbly girl who grew up in a very loving family in Conlig, and our thoughts today are mostly with her family: her father, John, her mother, Patricia, and her sisters, Joanne, Michelle and Ciara.”